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Just to add in a little disgusting reality check for anyone who doesn't know what happens when you call the police to roll up on someone for a mental health check -- at least, in my city, so maybe there are places where it doesn't suck rear end -- lemme give you the general outcome. First, the call goes to dispatch where the dispatcher makes a judgment call about whether or not the emergency is important; the place I live is understaffed and a lot of people don't have health insurance, so for a lot of people "go to the hospital" is the only kind of healthcare they ever get for anything. Naturally this has some knock-on effects. Usually in that patients are treated as if they don't really have a problem unless they're literally dying, and even then black women and Hispanic people are usually treated as if they're making a big deal over nothing. People who call for help with a mental health check that don't sound like they (or the person being called on) are in immediate danger usually get 1 car with 1 officer in it. They "check the scene" and are supposed to make contact with the potential patient. They sometimes do that. If the call comes from an area that has been designated as "unsafe" (usually this means, "predominantly black") you get more cars with more police. For a black man where the call sounded panicked, this can be like, 10 police officers. But it's usually around 4. The police then swagger up to whoever is "causing trouble" and immediately try to intimidate them into doing a series of actions or making a series of statements. Noncompliance is rewarded with rear end-kicking. Then the EMS is cleared in and the patient is delivered a "choice" -- go to the hospital or go to jail. I have not, ever, witnessed a potential mental health check that didn't involve one of those things. Nobody gets the police called to their location and simply goes home. Here's the fun part. Most of the people who get called on are what the system refers to as "frequent fliers," usually due to the aforementioned thing where the hospital is their only form of healthcare, and so their check in procedure is usually, "oh, he's back." And then they are admitted, "checked by a doctor," and discharged back out on the street within 45 minutes to 2 hours. Now, since they just got discharged, they know they can't really go back to the same hospital, so they ask to go to one of the other 2 (instead of jail, see?) but only 1 of our hospitals in the city even has a psych component. So... yeah. In an overnight shift, it's not uncommon for EMS to pick up the same person 3 or 4 times for "mental health" reasons where the process is repeated. "Psychiatric help" isn't the purpose of calling the police on someone, sadly. The point is to remove them from wherever they currently are. edit: medical cat tax https://twitter.com/kiwimegtyrone/status/1180975724670271489 Ershalim fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 14:42
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Ershalim posted:"Psychiatric help" isn't the purpose of calling the police on someone, sadly. The point is to remove them from wherever they currently are. I'm not disagreeing with the general point or substance of your post but I have to ask you to pump the brakes here. Don't paint with such a broad brush. I have direct personal knowledge of situations where cops were called, and because a person was indeed a threat to themselves and did indeed need psychiatric help. It wasn't a ploy. But I hear you, it's a process that's (by design) too often misused and abused and there are myriad reasons for this. But not every last one of these calls is bullshit. Be careful.
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Oct 13, 2019 14:50
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SirPablo posted:You think Trump is going to participate in debates lol
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Oct 13, 2019 14:51
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https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1183371777570947073 https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1183377955621363712
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Oct 13, 2019 14:52
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VH4Ever posted:I'm not disagreeing with the general point or substance of your post but I have to ask you to pump the brakes here. Don't paint with such a broad brush. I have direct personal knowledge of situations where cops were called, and because a person was indeed a threat to themselves and did indeed need psychiatric help. It wasn't a ploy. But I hear you, it's a process that's (by design) too often misused and abused and there are myriad reasons for this. But not every last one of these calls is bullshit. Be careful. I didn't mean that people don't ever need help and shouldn't ever get it forced on them in situations where it might prevent them from taking their own lives, for example... but I'm talking about a system where I've personally been called to the parking lot of a hospital to get rid of someone "in need of a mental health arrest." Ershalim fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 14:53
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SocketWrench posted:All it's going to do is reduce gun death by cop while other means rise. Bad cops aren't there because they're cowards, they're there because they crave power and being able to pull over some black guy and beat the piss out of him with a group of his cronies around him. It'll likely make them more aggressive as their main tool of power missing means they need to assert themselves more. That's why you don't see cops use pepper spray or a tazer or a beating but some combination of two or three of those things. You want to fix the problem? Get the system to stop protecting them when they do bad. I pretty specifically said in my post that it would be harm reduction, but it would be the most immediate way to prevent a large number of murders. If you want to solve the problem then you need to do a whole loving lot of things, and reducing the amount that the system protects bad cops is only one small part of that. You need better training. You need drastically better screening and hiring procedures. You need way more federal oversight and you need to do away with every tiny town essentially running its own police department. And you need to take away their guns, because there is no reason at all that your average cop should be armed when performing a traffic stop or carrying out other routine work. And yes, I'm aware that cops have been killed on traffic stops, and no, I don't care. It's ludicrous to argue that disarming cops would increase the number of people they kill given that a large number of these murders happen in circumstances where the victim is given minimal or no warning. If you actually want to reduce the system's ability to protect these people, then you need to take away their ability to instantly escalate a situation into murder. "He looked threatening so we mercilessly beat him to death" is not going to play well for anyone except the chud-iest chuds. Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 14:55
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Party Plane Jones posted:https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1183371777570947073 what the fuuuuuck
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Oct 13, 2019 15:00
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Literal death and destruction green lit by a loving tweet.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:02
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Trump's middle east policy: "I really don't care, do u?"
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Oct 13, 2019 15:07
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https://twitter.com/jeremymbarr/status/1183233179580358656?s=19 Is Shepard Smith leading some sort of mass exodus? https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1182937896795246593?s=19 Ew, Gross!
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Oct 13, 2019 15:08
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Bottom Liner posted:Do we have a, “WELL ACTUALLY” emoticon? 
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Oct 13, 2019 15:09
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Ershalim posted:I didn't mean that people don't ever need help and shouldn't ever get it forced on them in situations where it might prevent them from taking their own lives, for example... but I'm talking about a system where I've personally been called to the parking lot of a hospital to get rid of someone "in need of a mental health arrest." Right, that's clearly a bullshit abuse of the system. I just tend to avoid sweeping statement generally so nothing personal. I agree with you, top to bottom how we treat mental health is hosed and when you add our broken police departments it becomes hosed squared.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:11
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bowser posted:https://twitter.com/jeremymbarr/status/1183233179580358656?s=19 yeah, gently caress cruz but at least he actually went there to show support unlike the rest of the chuds. on shep smith. i can see it.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:11
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I hate to say it, because I loving hate this trog, but I don’t think he completely hosed this up the way I would have expected. I’m obviously open to the idea that I’m wrong, tho.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:16
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Data Graham posted:This is the attitude I normally try to have, yeah. Cops by and large are just doing a job, I get that, a hard one and a dangerous one I'm not saying that's what you were implying, but the "hard and dangerous job" myth needs to be stomped out everywhere it pops up.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:20
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Literally Elvis posted:
Good, you would have felt real silly after the twist at the end of the episode.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:20
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Party Plane Jones posted:https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1183371777570947073 These colors don't run....unless someone calls their bluff
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Oct 13, 2019 15:21
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Ershalim posted:...Psych Call Elaboration... On top of this. If you do get admitted to a hospital psych ward. Oh boy. The two times I've been inpatient in hospitals for mental health checks have been an exercise in literal CIA-level torture. Laughing nurses playing games and making fun of patients coming in, 15 minute suicide checks where some poo poo slams your door to jar you awake ALL DAY AND NIGHT. Denial of your current medication while a hospital doctor tries completely different things on you so you're in an interesting state of mind approaching hallucinogen status. This is just the beginning. When I knew I had to go in and get my head straight without an emergency call, I sold all I had, dumped my retirement funds, everything, in order to go to a private retreat because if I went into the US mental health system again I knew I probably wouldn't come out.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:22
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1183385881320853509 Sounds like a job for Space Force.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:22
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Slugworth posted:Literally not even as dangerous as an average of all jobs, and certainly nowhere near the most dangerous of jobs. And most police deaths are from auto accidents. There is absolutely no justification for the "everyone is trying to kill me, I need to shoot first and live in constant terror" mentality that so many cops have. Right. People need to understand that any job where you have to interact with the public and leave your house carries with it the risk that you're going to be shot. That's what comes from guns being so prevalent in America. The difference is that most professions don't treat every encounter like an armed confrontation.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:24
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ShuckyDucky posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1183385881320853509 Let’s not forget that Trump is attacking the child of a political rival. Not just attacking, but specially signaling for people to find him. I know we’re all in outrage overload, but this is utterly insane.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:28
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Dapper_Swindler posted:dont worry, trump has a plan... oh. Oh hey the President just put out a formal open invitation for everyone to get their proxy war on in Syria.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:30
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The mental health check talk, was there a story I missed in the past 48 hours? I did a quick search on my phone but didn't see anything.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:31
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Also since we're on the subject of nepotism, this is a good read: https://twitter.com/WaywardWinifred/status/1183383971935277059 The rich are more than ever making sure that their failsons cannot actually fail, resulting in a whole bunch of potential opportunities being wasted on people who have absolutely no legitimate reason to get them.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:34
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Zotix posted:The mental health check talk, was there a story I missed in the past 48 hours? I did a quick search on my phone but didn't see anything. A guy was concerned about his neighbor so he called the police for a wellness check. The police officer who responded shot his neighbor in her home through her window. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/fort-worth-police-killed-black-woman-inside-her-home Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 15:34
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1183390085993119749
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Oct 13, 2019 15:36
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Jealous Cow posted:Let’s not forget that Trump is attacking the child of a political rival. Not just attacking, but specially signaling for people to find him. I think a better question is: where's Joe? Has he said anything about this at all?
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Oct 13, 2019 15:36
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1183376270731763714
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Oct 13, 2019 15:37
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Shifty Pony posted:Oh hey the President just put out a formal open invitation for everyone to get their proxy war on in Syria. That part isn't much if a problem, given that everyone pretty much is in already (Iran, Saudis, Israel, Turkey, Russia).
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Oct 13, 2019 15:37
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You loving scumsucking pile of rat innards.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:38
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 An amazing thing to tweet after the one justifying the abandonment of the Kurds.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:43
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Still mad about the Nobel. I see.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:43
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Paradoxish posted:A guy was concerned about his neighbor so he called the police for a wellness check. The police officer who responded shot his neighbor in her home through her window. Shot her in less than 4 seconds of seeing a shadow, and then started parading a gun they found, not on her person, but in her bedroom, as if it was justification.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:44
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ShuckyDucky posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1183385881320853509 I found him 😬 https://mobile.twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1183379357118750720
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Oct 13, 2019 15:46
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Noise Complaint posted:Shot her in less than 4 seconds of seeing a shadow, and then started parading a gun they found, not on her person, but in her bedroom, as if it was justification. Though pretty sure under Texas norms having a gun close when some stranger is skulking around the backyard would also be acceptable.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:48
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Failboattootoot posted:I dunno about this. I've got a couple of conservative friends I've been hassling for over a decade and while they occasionally shift positions, they'll never vote liberal. At least they voted libertarian in the Trump election cycle. Most people believe what they believe. If your bottom line for interacting with someone is “maybe they’ll change their mind” you’re probably in for a disappointment. OTOH the problem with shunning as a political tactic is it really only stands a chance in very ideologically homogenous spaces, and even then there are lower key tactics that probably do the same or better.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:48
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Shifty Pony posted:Also since we're on the subject of nepotism, this is a good read: Is this surprising? Welcome to American Capitalism, the next best thing to hereditary nobility I work with a guy who's wife is decently high up in a fortune 500 company. Pretty much everyone making over 100,000 is either a family friend of the top executives, family of the top executives, or talent scouted out of schools like Yale or Harvard, where you also have to be either rich or family to attend. Truly smart people from the "lower class" are hired in and ground into the dirt until they quit, and are replaced with new grads No matter how hard they try, or how good they are, they are never allowed beyond a certain level. The rich live off the sweat and toil of the lower class. The rich control everything, and don't want anyone who isn't already rich to enter their atmosphere. The American Dream is dead and has been for about 40 years. SchrodingersCat fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 15:49
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Woke up to find these colors run like a bitch.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:51
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I can barely read about what's happening to the kurds man, this is just unconscionable.
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Oct 13, 2019 15:59
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Not only is being a cop not that dangerous relative to a decent amount of other professions but the majority of cops who do die get killed in traffic accidents since they’re on the road so much of the time. Not exactly heroically dying in the line of duty.
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