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I just love how much money they spend on initiatives intended to dissuade use of social services so money won't be spent on social services. Especially since the vast majority of them are farmed out to private enterprise, which as we all know is an excellent way to spend less tax money.
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Oct 12, 2019 18:08
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Cynic Jester posted:I just love how much money they spend on initiatives intended to dissuade use of social services so money won't be spent on social services. Especially since the vast majority of them are farmed out to private enterprise, which as we all know is an excellent way to spend less tax money. yeah it's pretty clearly an ethical project, not one based on concern for the public purse
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Oct 12, 2019 19:24
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah it's pretty clearly an ethical project, not one based on concern for the public purse Considering the public purse suffers when conservatives get into power due to tax breaks and giveaways to their constituencies that's pretty clear.
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Oct 12, 2019 19:53
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My personligt ombud managed to score me an amazing 1000 SEK so I can afford the train fare to Habilitering.  Eschenique posted:Thankfully my local arbetsförmedling has remained open and still has the same one(!) arbetsförmedlare they have had for like 10 years.
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Oct 13, 2019 09:25
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Poil posted:My personligt ombud managed to score me an amazing 1000 SEK so I can afford the train fare to Habilitering. Where do arbestförmedlare report to the first day after losing their job? I ask that with extreme snark but they probably call up their school mate from Chalmers and take a job as regional human resource manager at Telia for 75.000 kr a month
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Oct 13, 2019 09:45
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thotsky posted:Nah, the main reason is that for decades the primary goal of these institutions has not been to render aid, but to dissuade use. Yeah, pretty much: https://twitter.com/eivind1984/status/1181888813083312129
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Oct 13, 2019 12:39
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So the UK is talking about voter ID laws which they will use for voter suppression like many state sin the US does. It got me thinking how we already got that here and it was never a big deal. Are we just really ahead in the voter suppression game or better at supplying IDs?
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Oct 13, 2019 13:03
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Eschenique posted:So the UK is talking about voter ID laws which they will use for voter suppression like many state sin the US does. It got me thinking how we already got that here and it was never a big deal. Are we just really ahead in the voter suppression game or better at supplying IDs? You need a personnummer and an ID to have any kind of life really. That combined with having lots of different acceptable IDs makes it less of a problem. Sweden has automatic voter registration unlike the US and UK, which is probably the most important bit.
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Oct 13, 2019 13:39
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Fader Movitz posted:You need a personnummer and an ID to have any kind of life really. That combined with having lots of different acceptable IDs makes it less of a problem. Sweden has automatic voter registration unlike the US and UK, which is probably the most important bit. I don't want to give the system too much credit but a friends brother is on whatever they call social bidrag these days and his welfare contact pretty much dragged him kicking and screaming to getting a photo ID and paid for it too. Which is far from the US system of closing all places you can get an ID near minority areas and then putting the voting centers in a warehouse 5 kilometers from the nearest bus stop.
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Oct 13, 2019 14:14
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yeah voting is pretty easy in scandinavia, at least. be interesting how it'll develop with the banks start refusing to issue photo ID and the national ID cards still not available though
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Oct 13, 2019 14:25
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah voting is pretty easy in scandinavia, at least. be interesting how it'll develop with the banks start refusing to issue photo ID and the national ID cards still not available though Just chiming in from bizarro-scandinavia that Finnish IDs have always cost at least some amount of money, with either a passport, a driver's license, or a police issued photo-ID required for some things like voting. As was stated though it was never a problem before, and I'd imagine if you're totally flat out broke you can apply for social services to comp the photo-ID. I think it costs around 100€ total for the photo at a legit shop and the police processing fee. Nurge fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 14:32
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah voting is pretty easy in scandinavia, at least. be interesting how it'll develop with the banks start refusing to issue photo ID and the national ID cards still not available though We haven't had banks issuing cards with ID in Norway since...2013? Thankfully, our national ID cards which have been in development since 2007, will be released in *checks notes* not in 2019.
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Oct 13, 2019 14:36
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Cynic Jester posted:We haven't had banks issuing cards with ID in Norway since...2013? Thankfully, our national ID cards which have been in development since 2007, will be released in *checks notes* not in 2019. wait what holy hell how did i not know this, i thought it was much later than that
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Oct 13, 2019 14:40
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A voter card just showed up in my mailbox for the first election after I turned 18, and they've been sending them ever since for every election - and the only thing that's really changed materially is that I changed addresses since (but I only had to file that once with the national register, which happened online and took like 5 minutes). I barely even understand the concept of needing an ID when I go to vote; I went to school with one of the politicians that always show up to help overseeing things, and have known a few of the others for longer than I've been able to vote.
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Oct 13, 2019 16:44
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Fader Movitz posted:You need a personnummer and an ID to have any kind of life really. That combined with having lots of different acceptable IDs makes it less of a problem. Sweden has automatic voter registration unlike the US and UK, which is probably the most important bit. If you hate the idea of an id, you can bring a friend along whenever to identify themselves and attest that you are indeed who you claim to be. I'd be surprised if it did not work for voting.
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Oct 13, 2019 17:06
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Cynic Jester posted:We haven't had banks issuing cards with ID in Norway since...2013? Thankfully, our national ID cards which have been in development since 2007, will be released in *checks notes* not in 2019. What's the actual deal with the ID cards, anyway? Is the whole project just a big scam where people figured out they can keep getting payed as long as they keep saying sorry, turns out it was more expensive than we thought so give us another hundred million?
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Oct 15, 2019 10:57
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Potrzebie posted:If you hate the idea of an id, you can bring a friend along whenever to identify themselves and attest that you are indeed who you claim to be. I'd be surprised if it did not work for voting. Yup, in Sweden that's good enough for voting ID. From Valmyndigheten: "Jo, du kan rösta ändå. Men när du överlämnar rösten måste du kunna visa att du är du. Om du inte har någon id-handling kan du låta någon annan person intyga din identitet. Den person som intygar måste då visa en id-handling. Om du är känd av röstmottagaren kan även denne intyga din identitet." That is, as long as either someone with a valid ID can vouch for you, or someone at the voting station can vouch for you, you don't need an ID yourself.
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Oct 15, 2019 11:07
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Crimpolioni posted:What's the actual deal with the ID cards, anyway? Is the whole project just a big scam where people figured out they can keep getting payed as long as they keep saying sorry, turns out it was more expensive than we thought so give us another hundred million? I haven't really paid attention to it but everything I've seen in the papers is "Oh no, it turned out to be super expensive" and/or "It's so much more difficult than we initially thought". Granted the original budget was 12 million, which was hilariously low, but it's currently sitting at 700 million or so last I heard. I found this image which shows the status of a bunch of sub-goals from earlier this year and it is beautiful.  Granted, it's only one page of it, but according to Aftenposten, it's not an aberration.
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Oct 15, 2019 11:50
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I wonder how much the Danish system of sending everyone a voter card and requiring zero additional ID costs. I can't imagine it's more expensive than any alternative which requires licensed personnel, since the actual checking can be done by volunteers who get paid 1200 DKK for the day.
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Oct 15, 2019 11:59
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So, what do people use as an ID card in Norway, in practice?
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Oct 15, 2019 12:06
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Groda posted:So, what do people use as an ID card in Norway, in practice? If you have a drivers license you would use that. Some banks still issue cards with picture ID. If you have neither, your passport.
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Oct 15, 2019 12:17
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So what's the holdup. They're just going to farm it out to Gemalto, right?
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Oct 15, 2019 12:31
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Groda posted:So, what do people use as an ID card in Norway, in practice? Minimum four guys that are willing to swear a blood oath that you are who you say you are.
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Oct 15, 2019 12:32
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Om någon ifrågasätter din identitet blir det holmgång. Segraren får identiteten.
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Oct 15, 2019 15:27
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Bankkortet med ID går ut om 4 måneder. Siden jeg gjør ting i blant som krever to former for gyldig ID blir det interessant. Har ikke førerkort.
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Oct 15, 2019 15:32
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I remember once when I was stopped by the cops for doing 140 on a 110 road and they flat out took my drivers license on the spot and had it destroyed. It was my only ID at the time and the process of going from no id to 1 ID interesting to say the least! In contrast a coworker drove drunk and ran his car into a street light. Fled from the scene and police then later caught him at his home. They took his license but then had to give it back pending the results of the trial.
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Oct 15, 2019 15:43
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Cynic Jester posted:I haven't really paid attention to it but everything I've seen in the papers is "Oh no, it turned out to be super expensive" and/or "It's so much more difficult than we initially thought". Granted the original budget was 12 million, which was hilariously low, but it's currently sitting at 700 million or so last I heard. Well, I mean fair enough then. You'd be crazy to stop milking that kinda cashcow until it runs dry. Sucks for the people with no ids though.
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Oct 15, 2019 18:58
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Crimpolioni posted:Well, I mean fair enough then. You'd be crazy to stop milking that kinda cashcow until it runs dry. Sucks for the people with no ids though. not me though, i'm all superego, me
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Oct 15, 2019 19:13
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Max Manus posted:If you have a drivers license you would use that. Some banks still issue cards with picture ID. As far as I know, in Denmark, you're not required to have any picture ID although you may find it hard to do things. So far, I've succeeded in not having one.
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Oct 16, 2019 07:50
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D. Ebdrup posted:But are you required to have either of those three? I don't think I'm required to have any ID. I have an expired passport somewhere, and I use my drivers licence any time I need to prove who I am. Any time I'm voting, the people taking votes just say "We've known you by first name for 30 years, please proceed"
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Oct 16, 2019 08:42
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Back when I first moved to Sweden, in order to get an ID card from Postens kassaservice or your bank (only two options for non-citizens), you needed:
Fortunately, they ended this nonsense and made Skatteverket start issuing ID cards, since Migrationsverket had already validated the non-EU passport as part of the immigration process, and vouched for it when you got folkbokförd.
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Oct 16, 2019 08:47
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Eschenique posted:So the UK is talking about voter ID laws which they will use for voter suppression like many state sin the US does. It got me thinking how we already got that here and it was never a big deal. Are we just really ahead in the voter suppression game or better at supplying IDs?
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Oct 16, 2019 09:08
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Groda posted:Back when I first moved to Sweden, in order to get an ID card from Postens kassaservice or your bank (only two options for non-citizens), you needed: Jfc, I needed my “you’re allowed to be here” papers from Migrationsverket and US Passport. Brought the ex to assist. Got my ID card like two weeks later, with personnummer this was in 2016However I work with like a third Brits and holy poo poo they’re trying to get their ducks in a row because of Brexit and the amount of paperwork needed is boggling and seems to change constantly. My office manager has been in the country for nearly a year, was denied a personnummer multiple times, and had to give every paystub - ever. She’s here to marry her German partner who is a citizen and live with him in Sweden. She finally got her number two weeks ago. Another coworker just got citizenship today after being with his partner for around a decade and having a kid together. I’m dreaaaading going for dual in two years.
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Oct 16, 2019 09:11
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teen witch posted:I’m dreaaaading going for dual in two years. Dreading the citizenship application process is verging on cultural appropriation. It's literally the least demanding application process for us. Even applying for status as a long-term EU resident requires more paperwork.
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Oct 16, 2019 09:24
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Getting a CPR number in Denmark was ridiculously easy for an EU citizen. Day 1) go to foreign ministry, apply for EU residency number (had job letter, UK passport, letter from GF's dad that I was staying at their house) Day 2) Pick up EU letter at 8 a.m., head to Kastrup rådhus at 10, show nice lady my EU letter, job offer, UK passport, letter from her dad. Also apply for doctor, head to doctors office to get form signed, head back to rådhus to hand it in too. Day 3) Pick up letter with CPR number and second letter stating Dr. So-and-so was my doctor. Head to bank and apply for bank account and Dankort. Head to Strøget and get a mobile contract with CPR number. Boof.
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Oct 16, 2019 11:57
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I find it bizarre that you got a Dankort so easily. My girlfriend is German, has lived here for 4 years, and still her bank refuses to give her a Dankort.
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Oct 16, 2019 13:11
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Groda posted:Personnummer / civil registration problems are 99 % an EU citizen problem, since their right of residence is such a nebulous concept, and only truly covers people supporting themselves long-term. We non-EU went through a well-documented application process, while they just kind of showed up. Holy poo poo I didn’t know it was more of an EU hassle than for us filthy infiltrators. Finally everything’s coming up golden for Americans! 
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Oct 16, 2019 13:41
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teen witch posted:Holy poo poo I didn’t know it was more of an EU hassle than for us filthy infiltrators. Finally everything’s coming up golden for Americans! It's more because the Swedish citizenship application process is a huge joke. But if you're an EU citizen who didn't, say, already apply for their intyg om PUR, your case worker actually has to tread a bunch of new ground.
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Oct 16, 2019 14:30
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KozmoNaut posted:I find it bizarre that you got a Dankort so easily.
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Oct 16, 2019 15:34
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KozmoNaut posted:I find it bizarre that you got a Dankort so easily. There's something wrong with that bank. All my east european collegues got their Dankort immediately.
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Oct 17, 2019 08:09
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