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I dunno, I kinda enjoy the 'I think I know what this'll do, but let's, umm, try it somewhere nice and safe' aspect, it feels fitting.
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Oct 14, 2019 14:52
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Bad Munki posted:Can someone give me a rundown of how setting up the effects on wands, uhhhhhhhh, works? Otherwise, the wand "reads" from left to right. Say you have Doubleshot->Spark->Spark->Fireball, the first click will shoot both sparks and the second the fireball. Any spell with trigger or timer will count the spell right after it as a part of itself for the purposes of "parsing", so Doubleshot->SparkTrigger->Fireball->SparkTrigger->Fireball will shoot two sparks on click that each summon a fireball on impact. Projectile modifiers like Damage+ will apply to the spell to their right, but if that spell is a multishot then they will apply to every projectile fired by that multishot. Of course occasionally Weird poo poo happens that I don't understand either, like I had a wand with "Always casts: Doubleshot" and it behaved really strangely, I didn't understand it at all (which, of course, ultimately killed me)
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Oct 14, 2019 15:02
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The modding branch for this is actually awesome. They straight up give you the unpacker for all of the game's assets (mostly sprite png files) and source lua code, and make the game override any internal versions with your edited ones, so all you need is npp and a png editor, you dont even need to repack anything to test changes. For testing i made a chillout exploration mode where every enemy in the game is friendly to the player (but hostile to every other enemy, including themselves) and got it working in like 5 minutes by editing a single textfile. Also tried loving around with the enemy spawner to make a "10x spawns" mod and ended up with nothing ever spawning (except the very final hardcoded boss). Mood's kinda eerie when it's just empty abandoned wastelands.
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Oct 14, 2019 15:36
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Afriscipio posted:Where can I find this? People are sharing mods in the official discord, there are quite a lot of them now https://discord.gg/msMqEk
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Oct 14, 2019 15:38
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something important to understand about wands with trigger/timer spells is that the mana for the entire chain of casts is consumed up-front, and if there isn’t enough mana for the whole chain it will only cast as many as it can before running out. unless the mana cap/recharge on the wand is insanely high you’ll only get a full chain once or twice, after which you’ll only get double or single casts if you hold down the cast button
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Oct 14, 2019 16:01
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I have a really dumb question regarding wands but does it depend on the spell or the wand if it's a "unlimited use, just wait for mana recharge" or "you get 3 of this" one? I think it depends on the spell, but what happens if you have unlimited and limited spells on one wand and the charges for the limited one runs out? Do the unlimited ones still fire or is the wand completely useless until a recharge? I really don't know why but it's like solving the most complicated math problem of my life trying to understand how wands and spells work. I genuinely feel like an idiot 
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Oct 14, 2019 16:02
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If a spell runs out of ammo, the wand continues to work as though that spell wasn't there.
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Oct 14, 2019 16:10
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abraxas posted:I have a really dumb question regarding wands but does it depend on the spell or the wand if it's a "unlimited use, just wait for mana recharge" or "you get 3 of this" one? It depends on the spell. Wands have mana that recharges over time. All spells cost mana to cast, which comes out of the wand's infinitely regenerating mana pool, but spells might also have limited ammo. The little number on the spell icon tells you how many uses are remaining on that spell. Open up your inventory at the start of the game and you'll see that the bomb spell icon on your bomb wand has a little 3 by it, while the spark bolt icons on your pew pew wand have no numbers by them. This tells you your bomb spell has 3 ammo, while your spark bolts have infinite ammo. Ammo is restored by picking up the big green diamonds in Holy Mountain.
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Oct 14, 2019 16:24
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Is there a good way to deal with the electric monsters that show up in the ice area? They always seem to stun and 2-shot me, assuming I have enough hp left to survive the first hit. Not getting hit would obviously be ideal but they're fairly aggressive and the area has a ton to dodge already with all the gunners.
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Oct 14, 2019 18:57
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bloom posted:Is there a good way to deal with the electric monsters that show up in the ice area? They always seem to stun and 2-shot me, assuming I have enough hp left to survive the first hit. Not getting hit would obviously be ideal but they're fairly aggressive and the area has a ton to dodge already with all the gunners. Get lucky and see them before they see you. And when you see them, go the other way.
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Oct 14, 2019 19:00
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Don't take them on in a fair fight, if you can. Take fights where you have something to pop your head up over when you're shooting. They aren't likely to hit you if you're moving perpendicularly to them. They don't fly, so fighting them from above works well, which happens to also work well for just about everything in the level. Really, the trick for the 3rd level is that you want to have as little unexplored area surrounding you as possible. The safest way to take it is to work your way along the top right until you're at the passage back to the overworld, and then work your way down along the right edge. They seem to be fairly easy to take out with the rock drone spell, if you happen to have found one.
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Oct 14, 2019 19:15
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Bad Munki posted:Can someone give me a rundown of how setting up the effects on wands, uhhhhhhhh, works? I thought I was starting to get it, but then I go and configure a wand with a few things and it 100% doesn't do what I expect, and I'm kinda baffled. Like I've got a spell that triggers another spell after a timer, and then another of that, and then a splitter that casts two spells, and a couple more of the timers, and in some configurations it makes sense, but in others, it seems like it just stops after the first spell? I'm quoting Terry van Feleday's post because it's the basis for understanding what a wand will do. Terry van Feleday posted:If the wand has the stat "Shuffle: Yes" then your ordering doesn't matter 'cause it'll get randomly shuffled any time the wand recharges anyway. Shuffle wands generally suck. There are two types of components that go into wands: Spells and Projectile Modifiers. Spells can be infinite use or limited casts. Wands will, by default, cast one spell at a time in order from left to right. - Whenever you equip a wand, the wand starts from the beginning, so if you have a wand with many spells on it, cast a couple, switch to a different wand, and then switch back, it starts over from the beginning. - A wand that has Shuffle: Yes on it will randomly reorder all the spells on the wand every time the wand recharges. This means that as long as you don't switch wands, the wand will completely cycle through before it randomizes itself for the next cycle. - - In other words, if you have five different spells on a wand, it will cast all five spells once before it casts any spell a second time. - Every spell has a mana cost associated with it; even the limited use spells require mana to cast. - Limited use spells are recharged at the Holy Mountain. - Trigger and Timer spells will automatically "cast" the next spell when invoked, and can be paired with projectile modifiers to do interesting and useful things that may not otherwise be possible or safe without them. Projectile Modifiers are usually infinite use, but there are a few (Matter Eater) that have limited casts. Whenever a wand selects a projectile modifier, it puts it on a stack to apply to the next spell being cast. Once a spell is cast*, the stack of projectile modifiers is "cleared" and the modifiers don't apply to any subsequent spells. - Because wands "read" left to right, to use a projectile modifier it needs to be placed before the spell it applies to. - - A wand set up with Fire Trail -> Spark Bolt -> Spark Bolt -> Spark Bolt will fire a single spark bolt with a fire trail, then two regular spark bolts, and then repeat. - Any modifier that casts multiple spells will queue up multiple individual spells. It will not cast the same spell repeatedly: putting Triplecast and a single spark bolt on a wand together will not make a wand that casts three spark bolts. - Any modifier that casts multiple spells can be stacked. The total number of spells you receive might be less than you think - doublecast + doublecast gets you three spells, not four. Triplecast + doublecast gets you four spells, not five. - - For example, Doublecast, Triplecast, and Quad cast say they cast the next two, three, and four spells, however when combining them it is better to think of them as adding +1, +2, and +3 spells, respectively. Since you always cast at least one spell as a base, doublecast gives you 1 (+1) spells, for two. But two doublecasts will give you 1 (+1 +1) spells, for a total of three. The other modifiers that cast multiple spells in a formation work similarly in terms of how many spells they allow you to cast. - When casting multiple spells at once, you can apply projectile modifiers to the entire cast if they are applied before the modifier that lets you cast multiple spells. Burning Trail -> Dual Cast -> (two projectile spells) will apply Burning Trail to both spells. - Not all projectile modifiers can be stacked together - some modifiers will not work in combination with other modifiers. I don't have a list or anything, I just know what I've observed experimentally. - When using Trigger/Timer spells, any modifiers applied to the triggering spell will not also apply to the subsequent triggered spell(s) - it's considered a new "cast", so you can't use stretch a single modifier across a chain of trigger/timer spells the way you can stretch a single modifier across multiple spells using multicast modifiers. You can apply separate projectile modifiers to the subsequent triggered spell normally, however. Triggers (and Timers) Some spells have versions which have "with Timer" or "with Trigger". These work kind of like modifiers in that when a particular event happens, a designated spell is cast using the triggered spell's location/orientation as the source instead of the caster. The entire mana cost is paid up front; if your wand can't support the entire sequence of spells, it will cast as many spells as it can afford. Timers will invoke their designated spell(s) on a timer or when their projectile collides with an obstacle - shorter range spells that disappear without collision will invoke their trigger when they disappear. Triggers will invoke their designated spell(s) only when their projectile collides with an obstacle. Some shorter range spells can disappear if they don't collide with a wall or an enemy, in which case the triggered spells are not invoked. - Triggered spells work as a completely separate cast from the originating spellcast that invoked them - if the triggering spell has a modifier, the modifier does not apply to the invoked spell. The invoked spell can have its own modifiers, however, including modifiers like dualcast or formations to invoke multiple spells off of a single triggering spell. You can "fork" wand effects as much as you want, subject to the limitations of the wand's capacity and available mana. I'm gonna repeat an earlier post because it has good example of "forking" wand effects that I think should help. -- I'll use the main workhorse from my last run as an example. This is how the spells are laid out on the wand: Dualcast -> Spark Bolt (/w Trigger) -> Dualcast -> Explosion of Sulfur -> Explosion of Sulfur -> Spark Bolt (/w Trigger) -> Dualcast -> Explosion of Sulfur -> Explosion of Sulfur And this is how the spells are parsed: code:
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Oct 14, 2019 21:32
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SlightlyMad, could you please edit the above excellent post into the OP? It would really help with general clutter and answer most of the questions asked in this thread.
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Oct 14, 2019 21:45
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BaconCopter posted:SlightlyMad, could you please edit the above excellent post into the OP? It would really help with general clutter and answer most of the questions asked in this thread. I keep trying to figure out a simplified way of explaining how wands work, and I'm never super happy with the clarity level of my explanations. Maybe someone else can take a better crack at it, because I feel like I need to use too many words to get the point across.
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Oct 14, 2019 21:47
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It's wordy, sure, but the wand and spellcrafting mechanics are freakin' complicated! I'm not sure anyone could capture the nuances without a decently sized wall of text.
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Oct 14, 2019 21:53
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RoadCrewWorker posted:For testing i made a chillout exploration mode where every enemy in the game is friendly to the player (but hostile to every other enemy, including themselves) and got it working in like 5 minutes by editing a single textfile. Also tried loving around with the enemy spawner to make a "10x spawns" mod and ended up with nothing ever spawning (except the very final hardcoded boss). Mood's kinda eerie when it's just empty abandoned wastelands. Out of curiosity, which file were you editing that involves enemy spawns? I have some ideas...
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Oct 14, 2019 21:53
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BaconCopter posted:It's wordy, sure, but the wand and spellcrafting mechanics are freakin' complicated! I'm not sure anyone could capture the nuances without a decently sized wall of text. wand can do make explosion
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Oct 14, 2019 22:05
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BaconCopter posted:It's wordy, sure, but the wand and spellcrafting mechanics are freakin' complicated! I'm not sure anyone could capture the nuances without a decently sized wall of text. How about we try communicating it in the gooniest way possible: programming! code:code:code:code:code:code:
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Oct 14, 2019 22:13
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Olesh posted:I keep trying to figure out a simplified way of explaining how wands work, and I'm never super happy with the clarity level of my explanations. Maybe someone else can take a better crack at it, because I feel like I need to use too many words to get the point across. It might help in your example to number the spells: quote:I'll use the main workhorse from my last run as an example. This is how the spells are laid out on the wand:
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Oct 14, 2019 22:14
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Quick cliff notes version: Your spells can be divided into cast spells (eg spark bolt, bomb, nuke) that create objects in the world, and modifiers (eg fire trail, dualcast) that affect other spells. Your wand reads the spells you put in from left to right. If it reads a modifier, it will apply the modifier to the next spell. If that spell is a modifier it will apply both the next spell, and so on until it hits a cast spell. If the modifier is one that multi-casts, it will look ahead to get the next two/three/however many cast spells that the modifier requires. If the cast spell has a trigger or timer, it will cast the next spell without any of the modifiers that the first spell had. When you reach the end of the spell list, the wand needs time to recharge (how much time is a wand stat). If your wand is a Shuffle wand, it jumbles up all your spells each time it recharges. This is not a good thing but is usually balanced by the wand having stronger stats. Each spell takes mana; a bundle of modifiers and spells add all their mana requirements. If your wand doesn't have enough mana, it will skip to the next spell it can cast. Your wand's cast delay limits how fast you can cast your spells if they are not restricted by recharges or mana.
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Oct 14, 2019 22:14
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Don't remember if this was posted already, but this is neat: https://twitter.com/NollaGames/status/1106908978636881921
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Oct 14, 2019 22:22
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Okay probably dumb question here, but how do I enable/install mods with a offline GOG version of Noita?
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Oct 14, 2019 22:27
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Viscous Soda posted:Okay probably dumb question here, but how do I enable/install mods with a offline GOG version of Noita? You can't. Get a refund for the GOG version and switch to Steam, there's no beta branch access on GOG and the updates lag severely behind the steam version. Speaking from personal experience. GOG seems to be completely woeful for early-access games.
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Oct 14, 2019 22:30
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Ahhhhh, thanks for the wand primer. That helps a ton. I think it’s the dual cast type stuff that wasn’t behaving as expected, maybe coupled with the upfront mana cost.
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Oct 14, 2019 22:55
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In addition there's some permanent effects, like torch, shield etc which are always active when you have the wand out. For those it doesnt matter where the spell goes for the active effect but it might have weird interactions with spell chains.
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Oct 14, 2019 23:02
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Making an entrance
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Oct 14, 2019 23:38
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cowboy
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Tenebrais posted:Quick cliff notes version: This is good and clear, if the op can put it in that would be great if I could ask a games mod?
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Oct 14, 2019 23:47
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I just had to go for all that gold, forgetting that while immune to electrical shock... my 5-lighting bolt godhammer's direct hits are not shocks... https://i.imgur.com/YBoG0h0.mp4
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Oct 15, 2019 01:42
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I just had to go for all that gold, forgetting that while immune to electrical shock... my 5-lighting bolt godhammer's direct hits are not shocks... lightning immunity has become the perk I try not to pick unless it's literally the only perk I could use. I have killed myself so much touching half buried barrels or igniting hallways in the base level since the robots/turrents I killed bleed oil. Plus walking by any powder or potion liquid that can be set on fire.
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Oct 15, 2019 01:53
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EVIL Gibson posted:lightning immunity has become the perk I try not to pick unless it's literally the only perk I could use. Electricity and electricity immune are different perks, the former makes you a walking thunderstone and immune, latter just immune and electricity kills me in the base every time I get it too
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Oct 15, 2019 02:04
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my compulsion to shoot every freezing canister improves my life expectancy with electricity perk by roughly 10x
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Oct 15, 2019 02:08
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I just had lightning immunity and explosion immunity in the base along with the lightning bolt spell and those loving canisters STILL killed me with the freezing gas! If you're right on top of them when they blow up it drains your health FAST compared to when the gas is just disappitated in the air . I had a good digging wand too; really thought that was a sure win
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Oct 15, 2019 02:11
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IronicDongz posted:my compulsion to shoot every freezing canister improves my life expectancy with electricity perk by roughly 10x I often bomb something while in water  or miss canisters buried half in snow
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Oct 15, 2019 02:31
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Hey, yeah, sure thing, lemme just crawl on in there
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Oct 15, 2019 03:27
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In the mines, the enemies fighting each other in an alchemists shop created Midas' formula all on their own. if only I'd lived.
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Oct 15, 2019 03:32
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Bad Munki posted:Hey, yeah, sure thing, lemme just There's multiple portals on each floor, they're spread across the bottom of the level. Never been unlucky enough to have each one inaccessible but I guess it could happen
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Oct 15, 2019 03:34
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lol you definitely cannot dive on in like that through lava like you could with say, poison snot or burning oil
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Oct 15, 2019 03:45
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https://i.imgur.com/ppGhdNo.mp4 i found the tech mens stash of explosives.
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Oct 15, 2019 04:58
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 Finally figured out how to adjust spawn controls. Just need to severely lower infighting, and add more spawn points to the wang files and poo poo's gonna get busy 
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Oct 15, 2019 05:29
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goferchan posted:There's multiple portals on each floor, they're spread across the bottom of the level. Never been unlucky enough to have each one inaccessible but I guess it could happen Yeah, I just thought it was goofy. Level started and that dude undoubtedly started hucking lava, intent on making his jacuzzi in time for my arrival. Clark Nova posted:lol you definitely cannot dive on in like that through lava like you could with say, poison snot or burning oil In my defense, I didn't, I actually died on the ledge up. It was just such a lovely vista to die on, I apparently couldn't help myself.
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Oct 15, 2019 05:36
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