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trucutru posted:Next: a good Lich. (original idea, don't steal) Steve Lichman is an alright dude, even if some of his friends aren't.
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Oct 16, 2019 16:43
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Maybe we can put the evil paladin and the good lich in this revolutionary new RPG I'm writing that doesn't have classes and levels.
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Oct 16, 2019 16:57
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:
 DM'd for someone who wanted their character to be a barlnorn. Missed the opportunity to pull a "no you're just a lich now, the recipe you found was a fabrication planted by another lich to control the souls of other wizards, you're effectively dead roll up a new character". Instead I just said "no you can't do that"
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Oct 16, 2019 16:59
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Nuclear War posted:How did he steal the first soul without falling? He stole a Lawful Good soul. Boom, now he registers as Lawful Good no matter what forever. The actual rules bullshit is the claim that he can be any alignment whenever it suits him, because 3.5 does not have a three-second rule for alignment changes. The instant, the very picosecond he changes to anything other than Lawful Good he is no longer a Paladin. So there's no reason to bring up that he can be any other alignment.
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Oct 16, 2019 17:02
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We're into serious goblins alignment debate areas of rich not being okay
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Oct 16, 2019 17:09
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I'm very slightly mad that she thinks this kind of rules interaction "well technically" fuckery constitutes a plot twist of such magnitude that it's worth being kept under wraps for a decade. It's the very worst of lovely "must adhere to rules" D&D writing. It's a much more interesting theme to say "hey, the alignment system is a scam, people use the Lawful Good label to commit unspeakable atrocities and the Evil label to oppress decent folks." Cause, you know, there's all those easy parallels to real life. If you feel you need to carefully coat that in layers of loopholes to stick to game rules, you're watering down that theme beyond impact.
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Oct 16, 2019 17:13
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Rich basically trod this whole ground I don't know how many years ago with the Azure City paladins and Red Cloak's backstory, right?
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Oct 16, 2019 17:16
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Themes are for book reports though. World building only!
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Oct 16, 2019 17:16
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ikanreed posted:
Neither of these is good DMing.
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Oct 16, 2019 17:20
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Fuego Fish posted:Neither of these is good DMing. Player liches suck. Good liches are thematically boring. I'll fight you.
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Oct 16, 2019 17:26
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Subverting alignment: sure. But if they adhering to the D&D rules so much, why is he going through all this effort to be a loving paladin?
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Oct 16, 2019 17:27
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ikanreed posted:DM'd for someone who wanted their character to be a barlnorn. Missed the opportunity to pull a "no you're just a lich now, the recipe you found was a fabrication planted by another lich to control the souls of other wizards, you're effectively dead roll up a new character". Good job not being an rear end in a top hat, I guess?
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Oct 16, 2019 17:28
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Fuego Fish posted:Neither of these is good DMing. "You can't play a character that doesn't fit the setting/adventure we're going to be playing" is perfectly fine DMing for anything but the most freeform of campaigns. But then as I've grown older I've become more and more partial to having prebuilt 2/3rds done completed characters and letting my players choose one and fill out the details, which honestly feels a lot more like "role playing" than what I usually get and honestly seems to result in everyone having a much better time.
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Oct 16, 2019 17:32
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trucutru posted:To be fair, it's such a novel idea that he deserves the spotlight. You want Bad Ideas? I once was a Good Lich using an invented prestige class that I think at 5th level summoned 2d12 hd worth of undead. I don't think I ever hit a high enough level to use that skill so I don't know what I was thinking
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Oct 16, 2019 19:18
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ikanreed posted:
You should never DM ever again uf you think the former was a good idea. The latter is railroady but tolerable from subpar DM's, why not make a big quest about it to be a good aligned undead powered by positive energy?
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Oct 16, 2019 19:38
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Raenir Salazar posted:You should never DM ever again uf you think the former was a good idea. Because that sucks rear end and undercuts all the interesting themes of undead and I hate your opinions
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Oct 16, 2019 19:41
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Did this theoretical lich PC just want to have a novelty backstory or was there a ton of bonuses that came with it?
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Oct 16, 2019 19:44
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Jimbone Tallshanks posted:Did this theoretical lich PC just want to have a novelty backstory or was there a ton of bonuses that came with it? I like the person who wanted the arc, but it amounted to "I'm a good necromancer who plays with the forces of life and death and become immortal but for good" and if you don't see that as inviting downfall for hubris, I don't want to play your campaign. There's probably a way to make that downfall happen while keeping them having their character, but I personally prefer the idea of defeating your corrupted self as a campaign idea.
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Oct 16, 2019 19:51
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GODDAMNIT RICH I HOPE YOU ARE OK
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Oct 16, 2019 19:54
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ikanreed posted:Because that sucks rear end and undercuts all the interesting themes of undead and I hate your opinions So what is the interesting theme of being magically always evil?
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Oct 16, 2019 20:11
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If you want to literally sacrifice your humanity to as to remain forever on this world as a grotesque undead monster, it's doubtful that magic really needs to do much effort to change your alignment to evil. That said as a GM I did once have a failed lich NPC. He was a stupid wizard who had discovered the secret lair of a long-gone wizard and a giant library of books about spells and rituals, more than he could read in a lifetime. He just wanted to be left alone and spend forever to learn more magic from these books (because he actually wasn't very good at it), and he botched the ritual so that instead of sealing his soul away he sealed away his magic powers. So he was an animated skeleton with lots of (half-understood) arcane knowledge and a lot of time to read about magic things that he was going to spend eternity not being able to do. He was a great source of unreliable exposition.
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Oct 16, 2019 20:46
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Cat Mattress posted:If you want to literally sacrifice your humanity to as to remain forever on this world as a grotesque undead monster, it's doubtful that magic really needs to do much effort to change your alignment to evil. That's the thing, nothing about becoming undead actually sacrifices your humanity. All it really sacrifices is a lot of time and gold. Sure, some druids and clerics might not like it, but they're both giant hypocrites anyway.
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Oct 16, 2019 20:54
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The desire to live forever is inherently human, whether it’s by building a legacy or, well, magicking yourself an immortality!
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Oct 16, 2019 21:00
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I kind of want to create an evil necromancer who has to keep a stockpile of good souls on hand for all the times he accidentally performs some spectacular act of kindness and needs to keep his alignment in the negative.
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Oct 16, 2019 21:04
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Necromancy is assumed to be evil in D&D settings because undead leak negative energy that slowly corrupt the nearby landscape. This does not have to be true in every setting, and in fact sacred necromancy is a cool cultural aspect in a lot of fantasy; the dunmer in the Elder Scrolls practice it, for instance. They imbue their dead with the ability to defend their own tombs and summon ancestor spirits to protect them. That's what the baelnorn are supposed to be.
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Oct 16, 2019 21:26
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Rich is , thank Thor, okay. #1182 - The Beer TalkingAn interesting heart-to-heart and a great punchline.
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Oct 16, 2019 21:37
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fool_of_sound posted:Necromancy is assumed to be evil in D&D settings because undead leak negative energy that slowly corrupt the nearby landscape. This does not have to be true in every setting, and in fact sacred necromancy is a cool cultural aspect in a lot of fantasy; the dunmer in the Elder Scrolls practice it, for instance. They imbue their dead with the ability to defend their own tombs and summon ancestor spirits to protect them. That's what the baelnorn are supposed to be. Also in Diablo Necromancers are the good guys. Immortality to reach the Root is also a big thing in Fate/Stay Night, and wizards almost always turn into vampires at some point.
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Oct 16, 2019 21:38
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Raenir Salazar posted:Also in Diablo Necromancers are the good guys. Diablo Necromancers are in fact old-school-dnd druid types who actively pursue 'neutrality' by joining whatever side is losing, but still.
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Oct 16, 2019 21:40
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Rich Status: Okay!! Belkar Status: Emotionally Vulnerable?
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Oct 16, 2019 21:42
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I was worried Roy was about to get overly mean but I think that was as good as a heart to heart they were ever going to do.
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Oct 16, 2019 21:43
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When I was a kid, I wrote a short story about an evil wizard who wanted to take revenge on a town for reasons I can't remember anymore. He decided to raise all the dead from the graveyard to kill the townsfolk because ironic punishment or whatever. One of the zombies thanks the necromancer for giving her a chance to see her grandson as a grown man, and when the necromancer goes "No, you're supposed to kill him, go do my bidding" she violently disagrees and bludgeons the wizard to death, then goes to lecture the shocked grandson on how he show eat more, look at you so skinny, and then waddles back to the graveyard with the rest of the zombie horde. That's my take on non-evil undead. e: Oh, update
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Oct 16, 2019 21:51
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Oh thank God for belkar, which always tried to autocorrect to belfast
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Oct 16, 2019 21:51
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"You're the anal fistula of this quest" is, uh, quite something.
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Oct 16, 2019 22:00
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They're both right.
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Oct 17, 2019 00:46
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Roy really should have a lot more magical items besides a sword, his armor, and a bag of tricks
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Oct 17, 2019 01:19
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Who What Now posted:Roy really should have a lot more magical items besides a sword, his armor, and a bag of tricks Didn't he empty out the bag of tricks? And get a belt of giant strength? Most recent aquisition per character: *Belkar: knife and amulet *Durkon: Hammer of thunderbolts probably *Vaarsuvius: bird jewelry *Haley: wands *Elan: sword of his master's *Roy: belt
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Oct 17, 2019 01:25
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ikanreed posted:Didn't he empty out the bag of tricks? I'm pretty sure that's an "x uses per day" kind of item, so he's probably emptied out the bag a couple of different times.
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Oct 17, 2019 02:23
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New theory: Belkar gets puking-drunk, dies accidentally, and spends the rest of the story as some kind of alcohol-pun spirit.
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Oct 17, 2019 02:41
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IMJack posted:New theory: Belkar gets puking-drunk, dies accidentally, and spends the rest of the story as some kind of alcohol-pun spirit. To steal from WoW: an alemental
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Oct 17, 2019 03:39
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If Roy's grown to appreciate Belkar, I wonder if there's a chance for resurrection later down the line. Or maybe Belkar's predicted death is just going to be him falling into a rift and beyond the bounds of all known existence and all bets will be off from there. There's gotta be some weird conclusion to all this.
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Oct 17, 2019 03:47
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