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Prester Jane posted:I'm so sorry but this is so goddamn stupid stupid- logic like this is why people like you keep pressing the electrocute button (because the man in the lab coat told you to) while the man on the other side of the glass begs you not to. What I said is that her success in reaching a position of power, and let's be clear here she is the most politically powerful woman in American history. While she most certainly had advantages that the average woman wouldn't it doesn't mean that it was handed to her on a silver platter. You hyperbolize and toss insults and ad homs at me all day, but we have a system, it's imperfect because all systems are imperfect. But it's superior to every alternative that has been tried. Liberal democracy works from the assumption that for people to buy in to a system they need to believe that they have some say in it. Not a final say just some say. This is accomplished through a set of agreed upon rules that are on how one changes the rules. This consent of the governed is what gives legitimacy to that government. It's not an economic system as much as some both the right and left want to pretend that it is intrinsically linked to capitalism it isn't. At its core all it means is that we collectively determine the rules that govern society. It doesn't predetermine outcome it just says that if a majority (or whatever portion of the population is agreed on) decide that something should be how society operates, that's how society operates. I do think that the framers were pretty smart in how they built it, it's just that humans are pretty good at figuring out how to play the rules. No they didn't create a perfect system, they were doing something new and they were addressing certain specific problems that they had experience with and they were limited by ignorance of what the future would bring, but even then they built in a mechanism to change it when needed. What are the alternatives? What would you prefer to be the way for us to decide how society should operate? What is acceptable vs unacceptable behavior? Pretty much violence, because if you can convince enough people to agree with you to succeed through peaceful means you will have enough support to succeed through the political process in a liberal democracy. Those Scandinavian nations with the socialist systems that American leftists say are the models they want to emulate are liberal democracies. As to why I prefer these systems to the alternatives? Because all of the other options involve warfare. They involve violence and its not typically the privileged who end up suffering the most in those situations. No one is telling you not to engage in direct action, or not to agitate for a general strike, that's literally baked into the system as a way to bring about change. It's the reason that protection of political speech is the 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights. It's why treason is very narrowly defined in the constitution, it's why the only mention of religion in the body of the constitution is to forbid using a religious test to hold office. The only thing that is stopping you from implementing whatever changes you want in the United States is your ability to convince enough people to agree with you to change those rules. The alternative is just might makes right and that definitely doesn't tend to go well for marginalized groups. That's what the Right is trying to implement. That's what Putin and all of totalitarian authoritarian Fascists who are working with him want to implement. Do you really think that the people you are most concerned about are going to fare better under them? That's the conflict in the world right now, between those who want to preserve liberal democracy and those who want authoritarianism and the authoritarians don't give a poo poo about any of the things people on the Left claim to support.
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Oct 19, 2019 00:43
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How long until Trump threatens to bomb the Nobel committee if he doesn't get the Peace Prize?
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Oct 19, 2019 00:43
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How dumb can this get. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1185339160858648576
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Oct 19, 2019 00:45
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:Giuliani pushed Trump administration to grant a visa to a Ukrainian official promising dirt on Democrats Not a "Ukrainian official", the guy who Biden help get fired like 4 years ago; he has no current role. (And of course a reason to dislike Biden!)
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Oct 19, 2019 00:47
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Oct 19, 2019 00:51
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twice burned ice posted:Is it her support for anti-LGBT groups? Is it her hatred of muslims? Her cozy relationship with known chemical weapons user Bashar al-Assad? Do tell I mean, literally all of those were true of Clinton
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Oct 19, 2019 00:52
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it was literally under her State Department we began the attempt to resume relations with Assad before the civil war!
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Oct 19, 2019 00:53
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Wilbur Swain posted:This is gonna look great on his Nobel prize application, he thinks to himself. This is grotesque.
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Oct 19, 2019 00:54
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sexpig by night posted:I mean, literally all of those were true of Clinton Yeah, they're both poo poo. Anyway, I didn't realize I was responding to a pages old post. Carry on with Friday night poo poo posting
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Oct 19, 2019 00:54
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Skex posted:What I said is that her success in reaching a position of power, and let's be clear here she is the most politically powerful woman in American history. While she most certainly had advantages that the average woman wouldn't it doesn't mean that it was handed to her on a silver platter. The system is your god and you think not supporting the system will lead to (more or less) the end of the world. I've read screeds like yours hundreds of times- although usually they were Jesus themed. In your case you worship the system and dutifully obey the high priests that the system appoints. Your last few posts on this topic have been literal apologia for the system. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 00:54
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twice burned ice posted:Yeah, they're both poo poo. great, that was my point, it's really weird that known piece of poo poo Clinton thinks fellow, honestly very similar, piece of poo poo Gabbard MUST be a russian agent
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Oct 19, 2019 00:55
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sexpig by night posted:I mean, literally all of those were true of Clinton lol this guy doesn't stop. I mean real talk Hillary was right about Trump being a puppet and she's probably right about Tulsi being an asset.
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Oct 19, 2019 00:55
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sexpig by night posted:I mean, literally all of those were true of Clinton Serious question: does Clinton actually count for anything politically anymore right now?
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Oct 19, 2019 00:56
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Somehow she manages to be more homophobic in practice and belief than a lot of republicans? She 'evolved' at the same time as the rest of the turds.
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Oct 19, 2019 00:56
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Otteration posted:Serious question: does Clinton actually count for anything politically anymore right now? No but she keeps deciding to insert herself in things so here we are!
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Oct 19, 2019 00:57
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twice burned ice posted:Carry on with Friday night poo poo posting Who summoned me? Anyway, I still say we all failed by not electing this dude. 
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Oct 19, 2019 00:59
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I recall reading that BLM was signal boosted by Russia, but I never saw any signs that they were directly supported.
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Oct 19, 2019 00:59
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Phobic Nest posted:Who summoned me? I'm here for President Egg
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Oct 19, 2019 00:59
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the current system is violence you stupid fucker. also, loving LOL that direct action is baked into and thus condoned by your system. do I get paid strike days and I just dont know it? like, lawmakers literally tried to legalize running over protestors ffs
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Oct 19, 2019 01:00
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sexpig by night posted:it was literally under her State Department we began the attempt to resume relations with Assad before the civil war! Then he started gassing civilians...
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Oct 19, 2019 01:00
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pkay posted:lol this guy doesn't stop. I mean real talk Hillary was right about Trump being a puppet and she's probably right about Tulsi being an asset. She was also right about the deplorables. And the jobs not coming back. Hillary was right about a lot of things. But she's a loser and a centrist which basically makes her the devil herself round these parts.
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Oct 19, 2019 01:00
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Prester Jane posted:The system is your god and you think not supporting the system will lead to (more or less) the end of the world. I've read screeds like yours hundreds of times- although usually they were Jesus themed. And your case you worship the system and the high priests that the system appoints. Once again with the strawmen and insults. No actual content. No ideas of your own. No explanations for how you think whatever the gently caress it is that you want is supposed to come about.
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Oct 19, 2019 01:00
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pkay posted:Then he started gassing civilians... dude we get you haven't followed Syrian history before 2015 but come on I just made a joke about the last time they killed a bunch of civilians and we recalled our ambassador and poo poo
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Oct 19, 2019 01:01
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Prester Jane posted:The system is your god and you think not supporting the system will lead to (more or less) the end of the world. I've read screeds like yours hundreds of times- although usually they were Jesus themed. And your case you worship the system and the high priests that the system appoints. At this moment it sorta feels like the probability that we all end up dead in the next few years is a function of what proportion of the public has the same world view professed by Skex.
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Oct 19, 2019 01:01
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Skex posted:Once again with the strawmen and insults. No actual content. No ideas of your own. No explanations for how you think whatever the gently caress it is that you want is supposed to come about. I'm profoundly disinterested in arguing religion with the faithful. qmark posted:At this moment it sorta feels like the probability that we all end up dead in the next few years is a function of what proportion of the public has the same world view professed by Skex. 
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Oct 19, 2019 01:03
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sexpig by night posted:dude we get you haven't followed Syrian history before 2015 but come on I just made a joke about the last time they killed a bunch of civilians and we recalled our ambassador and poo poo ....dude what are you on even? Like you are literally trying to spin the timeline of the Syrian civil war to stan for Tulsi loving Gabbard? C'mon.
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Oct 19, 2019 01:04
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lmao of course https://twitter.com/jordanuhl/status/1185345359305990144?s=21
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Oct 19, 2019 01:05
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Phobic Nest posted:Who summoned me? President Smashmouth your day has come to eat the egg
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Oct 19, 2019 01:05
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Phobic Nest posted:Who summoned me? https://youtu.be/AHAFMFFQlkI
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Oct 19, 2019 01:06
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So there's a lot in here to unpack. First, I tend to defend Pelosi because she's incredibly, incredibly good at what her job actually is. Her job is that internal parliamentary stuff: collect 218 votes and keep them, and do the best she can with those 218 votes. Being good at that isn't all that compatible with being the national thought leader or pushing the party with rallies and the like. She needs to be the bad guy quite often: if something has only 200 votes, and trying to push it is only going to expose some of her vulnerable members who don't want to be put to a vote on something, frequently it is her job to take the blame. There's a reason Speakers (or majority leaders) don't run for President. It's not a job you can be popular with the public in, because you need to be good at the backroom politics and often that's not compatible with being widely popular. I also note you complain Pelosi didn't weaponize stuff well enough but, uh, dems did quite well in 2018 (some disappointing red state senator losses aside). Further, a lot of the stuff you are complaining about is your general anger at how politics is in our country, and that we haven't been able to make it better yet. That is an issue beyond something that Pelosi or other national democrats could have fixed by now (given the results of the 2016 election). But one of the things you need to understand is that what you care about, what is important to you, is not important to everyone else. Like, you're bitching about Pelosi saying she's "praying for trump" and asking who she's speaking to there. Well, she's speaking to the large amount of somewhat religious people who are somewhat religious and appreciate being talked to in that way; who want their leaders to want what's best for america instead of themselves; and finally who know saying you'll pray for someone is a way of saying they're doing a bad thing and need to stop. And finally, a lot of the stuff you would like Pelosi to be doing, you'll find she's already doing. It's just that it is much, much harder to get stuff through in the media when you've got a lunatic president who has been driving the news cycle with his latest atrocity nearly 24/7 for a thousand days. The House has passed tons of popular bills that go to what people care about, pocketbook issues, fixing issues with our democracy, you name it. But that doesn't really get much reporting and there's not much you can do to push that into the public view, outside of an election cycle, when everyone knows those are just messaging bills. Finally, while it's usually hard having no national figure who is basically the national face of the party when you don't hold the presidency (and the heads of the legislature are never good substitutes), right now we are no longer really in that situation: there are between 2 and 5 or so serious candidates for that job and part of their job interview, as it were, is to do that sort of poo poo. Biden, Warren, Bernie, etc, it's their job to go out and bring the party's message to the people right now (and they should be judged on their ability to do it). Pelosi's job is to ensure the House stays as focused on blocking the poo poo Trump is doing and to preserve her majority in 2020.
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Oct 19, 2019 01:08
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ewiley posted:President Smashmouth your day has come to eat the egg
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Oct 19, 2019 01:08
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sexpig by night posted:No but she keeps deciding to insert herself in things so here we are! Guess I should'a asked what her Scaramucci/gamma penetration ratio is. 
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Oct 19, 2019 01:08
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Dammerung posted:That Twitter thread is one heck of a read. Congresswoman Gabbard's not taking this well. It's almost like someone hit a nerve...  Like if Hillary can see through your poo poo and call you out on it you are a little too obvious Tulsi
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Oct 19, 2019 01:08
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In America, first you get the crack, then you get the ping, then you get the TORMP
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Oct 19, 2019 01:10
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I’m sure Tulsi will run back on Tucker Carlson to complain about how mean everyone is being to her. Congrats on being right! She is tonight! It's wierd how her and Greenwald have such a fun relationship with Tucker...
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Oct 19, 2019 01:11
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TulliusCicero posted:It's almost like someone hit a nerve... ETA on her third party candidacy bid? You think she quits and claims DNC is rigged or does she now use Clinton as the scapegoat?
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Oct 19, 2019 01:11
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Dad Jokes posted:lol, get hosed desantis Gov. Ron DeSantis is seen hugging both Igor Fruman and Lev Parnas during Desantis' election night watch party Tuesday, Nov. 6, 2018 in Orlando  Source: Tampa Bay Times
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Oct 19, 2019 01:11
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Prester Jane posted:I'm profoundly disinterested in arguing religion with the faithful. How do you think that you can tell anyone how to lead when you can't even explain what it is that you are advocating for. I'm sorry but "the system sucks" is not exactly a prescription for anything other than depression. How do you expect to effect change if you can't even try to articulate what you are advocating for? I'm not trying to be an rear end here. I've asked the same question of you and your fellow "leftists" for years and I've yet to hear an answer, what actionable plan do you have to bring about the change you desire? I'm open to any ideas because I've spent the majority of my life trying to figure it out. Skex fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 01:11
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Phobic Nest posted:Who summoned me? there's 100 of them on this site and they are all equally insane.
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Oct 19, 2019 01:13
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twice burned ice posted:Carry on with Friday night poo poo posting It's friday, Friday, FRIDAY! LET'S GET READY TO (pay taxes and) RUMBLE! https://i.imgur.com/wZoDMOh.mp4
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Oct 19, 2019 01:13
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