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I think Keetron is right. If she is good, say so, anything else makes you look petty. You don't have to say "She is better than me at everything, so so so much better, honestly I'm not sure why you are even talking to me".
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Oct 4, 2019 18:12
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Ultimately it barely came up. I asked how many positions they were looking to fill, and they simply said something to the effect of "We're narrowing down the candidates right now" but I still mentioned that my coworker was recently approached, is great to work with and I'd love the opportunity to continue working with her - they didn't seem especially interested in hearing more  As for the actual interview they talked about what the business does, review my resume, and then asked me what "the keyword void would do when declaring a function" and "what IDisposable is for" -- pretty drat light for a ".NET Software Engineer II" position, but I suppose the next interview will be more technical. Then again, maybe not. My current job literally didn't even do a technical interview. One way or the other I wasn't super impressed with the job, but at the same time I would very much like to make more money soooo I guess that's all that matters, at least until my student loans are paid off 
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Oct 4, 2019 23:00
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Cuntpunch posted:You continue to be unable to separate language from domain. I feel personally attacked
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Oct 6, 2019 16:31
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What up Senior Citizens! I don't post here much but the advice I've picked up has been supremely valuable in the past 18 months so thank you. Anyways - I am currently negotiating with Company X for a permanent position. I've got the upper hand in a number of big ways and I countered their offer with a goodly sized raise + a signing bonus. (It helps that the wife does this sort of HR contract work at a different company and gives sound advice as well.) As a contractor I saw a team-change opportunity and by God it panned out in spades. I had a kick-rear end year of work and ya boy is gonna get $$$paid$$$. I'm gonna take that signing bonus and turn it into
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Oct 14, 2019 00:53
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Thots and Prayers posted:new rain gutters awww yeeeee Do tell us what tips you picked up from these old farts in the last 18 months that helped you get in this position?
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Oct 14, 2019 06:30
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Keetron posted:Do tell us what tips you picked up from these old farts in the last 18 months that helped you get in this position? I don't remember how I found the thread but it was right around the time I had made the decision to leave a position of 16 years. Reading other's experience and questions helped me judge on whether to leave, basics of interviewing, and helped me work through the pain of loving up the first few interviews. I got better. I remember the first time I came out of an interview knowing I had nailed it. Felt good. I got the job as a salaried contractor. I even negotiated a higher salary and a set of bonuses. loving A. I knew the role and what was expected of a Senior Developer. I dressed well. I stayed well clear of office politics/gossip. An opportunity opened for a team lead of a complicated but important asset. I requested a private meeting with the guy leaving and he indicated that they had made two offers to him but he wasn't biting - he wanted to go back to school. So I took it. There was lots of straight-forward improvements to make. All numbers went up. I won a contractor award - nothing more than an attaboy but it was the only one thus far in 2019. Company X starts talking about permanent hiring. First offer comes in and I counter healthily upward plus a signing bonus, giving rationale for all the items. HR doesn't flinch and asks for time. I honestly think they'll take it, my position at the moment is A+. If not, I've already negotiated a raise for myself with contracting company using Company X offer as a tool for negotiating. The old me could code but didn't have any business wherewithal. I got better.
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Oct 15, 2019 05:07
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Nice, you did well !
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Oct 16, 2019 02:20
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Need some advice: I’m at the end of the interview process with this startup and in what I presumed to be the “offer letter” call they bring up a stipulation: they’re awaiting a round of funding that is expected to close soon and any FTE hiring is on pause until that clears. I don’t really have much of an issue with an offer in principle contingent on that funding except that they’ve offered an alternative in the mean time: a brief, several month contract period as a trial with FTE to follow assuming all is well. This isn’t the first time this has come up although it didn’t come up until one of the last interviews in this process and I more or less professionally declined it at that time. Nothing in the listing states anything about this and I’m not really in a place where I feel like I need to take that kind of risk so it’s a little offputting. I feel like for a Senior level position after an in depth practical, several hour+ interviews and face time you kind of have to just roll the dice or accept taking more desperate candidates. Any thoughts? I’m trying to not get too caught up in Sunk Cost reasoning and it’s definitely thrown me off.
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Oct 22, 2019 00:45
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I'd definitely want a guarantee that the contract position would be converted to FTE once funding is secured / after a fixed amount of time as a contractor. I've definitely seen the "we can't hire FTEs but we can go nuts with contractors" thing before, so I wouldn't necessarily expect duplicity on the part of the company, but it's all too easy to imagine them saying "oh well we got the funding, but we're not gonna convert you, so what are you going to do about it?" The fact that the company didn't tell you about this until the last minute is definitely offputting though.
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Oct 22, 2019 00:58
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Iverron posted:Need some advice: I’m at the end of the interview process with this startup and in what I presumed to be the “offer letter” call they bring up a stipulation: they’re awaiting a round of funding that is expected to close soon and any FTE hiring is on pause until that clears. I don’t really have much of an issue with an offer in principle contingent on that funding except that they’ve offered an alternative in the mean time: a brief, several month contract period as a trial with FTE to follow assuming all is well. They bait and switched you. You're perfectly reasonable to say "If that funding comes through, you have my number. Good luck!" and move on.
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Oct 22, 2019 00:58
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The fact that the company didn't tell you about this until the last minute is definitely offputting though. It's possible that they thought the deal would be done earlier than it was and that this is a giant monkey wrench for them. It's still not great, but it's less malicious than them withholding the information.
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Oct 22, 2019 01:03
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Iverron posted:Need some advice: I’m at the end of the interview process with this startup and in what I presumed to be the “offer letter” call they bring up a stipulation: they’re awaiting a round of funding that is expected to close soon and any FTE hiring is on pause until that clears. I don’t really have much of an issue with an offer in principle contingent on that funding except that they’ve offered an alternative in the mean time: a brief, several month contract period as a trial with FTE to follow assuming all is well. If funding doesn't come through... then you be screwed. I'd do this: New Yorp New Yorp posted:They bait and switched you. You're perfectly reasonable to say "If that funding comes through, you have my number. Good luck!" and move on.
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Oct 22, 2019 01:18
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Iverron posted:Need some advice: I’m at the end of the interview process with this startup and in what I presumed to be the “offer letter” call they bring up a stipulation: they’re awaiting a round of funding that is expected to close soon and any FTE hiring is on pause until that clears. I don’t really have much of an issue with an offer in principle contingent on that funding except that they’ve offered an alternative in the mean time: a brief, several month contract period as a trial with FTE to follow assuming all is well. Maybe this is my own ignorance, but if they were hiring for the role before the funding round, why would they suddenly stop hiring for it during? If you’re in the position for it (i.e. don’t need to start working asap), I would say “call me back once you’re ready to hire me full time” and continue interviewing. I wouldn’t like that type of uncertainty.
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Oct 22, 2019 01:19
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Pie Colony posted:Maybe this is my own ignorance, but if they were hiring for the role before the funding round, why would they suddenly stop hiring for it during? This isn't all that uncommon, sadly, even when you're not a startup reliant on investor funding. Companies need to hire speculatively, because it takes so long to find qualified candidates. So they hire on the assumption that they'll need the employees by the time they get them. Sometimes this results in them over-hiring and having a minor panic about what this is doing to the budget; that often results in hiring-freeze declarations being handed down from on high. Sometimes the projects that they anticipated needing those employees for fall through, which has similar results.
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Oct 22, 2019 01:23
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Never trust the word of a startup founder. Or anyone in management for that matter. New Yorp New Yorp posted:They bait and switched you. You're perfectly reasonable to say "If that funding comes through, you have my number. Good luck!" and move on.
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Oct 22, 2019 01:39
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Pie Colony posted:Maybe this is my own ignorance, but if they were hiring for the role before the funding round, why would they suddenly stop hiring for it during? Fundraising rounds often take like 6 months. Until the deal closes, you need to make sure that you have enough runway to start over in case the current thing falls through. At the start of the process they have enough money to pay everyone for another year, and cutting that to 11 months with some new hires isn't a big deal. Right before a round closes, they might only have a few months left and will have to cut expenses as much as possible if it doesn't happen, so they don't want to take on any new FTEs. They don't want to completely pause the hiring process during that time though, as it takes loving forever to find people to hire.
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Oct 22, 2019 01:39
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Yeah I don’t necessarily think it duplicitous and can definitely understand why it would happen. It’s more the weird alternative contract pushing that has me put off. Unless I’m just extremely desperate there’s no benefit in that for me and it seems strange to offer for a Senior + position.
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Oct 22, 2019 01:42
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Is the short term contract significantly more $$ or what? Otherwise if all the risk is on you then that sounds like a poo poo deal.
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Oct 22, 2019 01:52
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No details like that yet but I assume no.
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Oct 22, 2019 02:01
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The best case is that you’re not being lied to and would convert to FTE after the next round. Presumably termed if the deal falls through. That doesn’t sound like a very good situation overall, and contracting being involved makes the worst case very bad indeed. I have at times been desperate enough to accept an offer like this, and the subsequent experiences drove a lot of my current financial and career plans.
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Oct 22, 2019 07:01
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You could cover your basis by asking for a ridiculous shitload of money to make up for the uncertainty, and continuing to search regardless.
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Oct 22, 2019 08:34
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I guess it all really comes down to risk, and since you said you aren't in a place where you're desperate enough to take it, I don't see any harm in saying, politely, "OK, get back to me post funding".Ralith posted:You could cover your basis by asking for a ridiculous shitload of money to make up for the uncertainty, and continuing to search regardless. Bases. It's either a baseball metaphor, or rose from WWII military terminology. Unless you're talking about cost basis, in which case, continue.
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Oct 22, 2019 19:02
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Never wait for a round of funding to close - it will always take much longer than people expect and even then the money doesn't come over instantly. Keep interviewing and use that offer as leverage for something potentially better if it comes along.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:15
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Iverron posted:Need some advice: I’m at the end of the interview process with this startup and in what I presumed to be the “offer letter” call they bring up a stipulation: they’re awaiting a round of funding that is expected to close soon and any FTE hiring is on pause until that clears. I don’t really have much of an issue with an offer in principle contingent on that funding except that they’ve offered an alternative in the mean time: a brief, several month contract period as a trial with FTE to follow assuming all is well. Now they’re asking for references, months into the process. Not as in “oops we forgot about this and it’s just a formality we require” way but rather “we’re absolutely contacting these people before we send an offer”. This operation is throwing me off.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:22
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gently caress 'em, they're dangling you along, you can find less rear end in a top hat-ish people to work with. Keep in mind that if they're like this to potential employees, they'll be worse to actual employees, who have more friction between them and working elsewhere.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:53
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I'm confused. Asking for references as a last step before sending out an offer is a normal thing.
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Oct 22, 2019 22:08
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Yeah that's normal over here too. It's generally considered polite not to bother your references unless you're otherwise literally about to get the job. Maybe it's a regional/cultural thing? I mean, I don't hand over references at the beginning of an application and would consider a red flag if they asked.
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Oct 22, 2019 22:41
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Maybe it is and I’m overreacting, I’ve personally never seen it asked for this late in the game nor have I ever had any references actually contacted for any positions I’ve accepted in the last 10+ years. It always seemed like a formality in larger organizations and I’ve never seen it even asked for from a startup.
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Oct 22, 2019 23:23
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My experience has been the exact opposite: startups always ask me (once I got a 150k+ job offer off a reference alone, without really having to interview), big companies (FAANG) don't.
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Oct 22, 2019 23:42
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Google called two references after my on-site then rejected me. Major ownage.
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Oct 23, 2019 00:17
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motedek posted:Google called two references after my on-site then rejected me. Major ownage. Time to reevaluate your references friend
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Oct 23, 2019 01:11
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I had a company ask for and call 5 references, then not give an offer. But the references weren't the problem. I apparently bombed 1 interview related to testing. I was too honest? They asked me how I was testing at my current job and I said we favored integration tests over unit tests for max coverage at minimal effort (old company was a startup factory). He really liked unit tests... That whole process was doomed from the start. It was a 7 touch interview with 4 live-coding exercises that I jammed into less than a week, part of which was while I was on vacation (and interviewing in-person at the company I would eventually accept an offer from). One touch started 15 minutes late because the interview software didn't show me as in the room. Another, I lost internet in the middle of and had to complete on a hacked 3g hotspot.
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Oct 23, 2019 04:42
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kayakyakr posted:They asked me how I was testing at my current job and I said we favored integration tests over unit tests for max coverage at minimal effort (old company was a startup factory). He really liked unit tests... I would reject you too if this would be how you'd approach testing while working on my team.
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Oct 23, 2019 10:29
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i would reject you for wasting time writing tests
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Oct 23, 2019 12:30
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How come it feels like you folks don't work in avionics software that requires certification integration testing? Integration testing can be useful. So can unit tests.
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Oct 23, 2019 12:52
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Half-wit posted:How come it feels like you folks don't work in avionics software that requires certification integration testing? I think the Boeing 737 MAX proves that tests wont make you safe.
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Oct 23, 2019 13:02
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I did say 'useful' not 'foolproof'. It's almost like there isn't a perfect system out there or something.
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Oct 23, 2019 13:05
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I also like how these interviewers are damning the interviewees for decisions made on a team/team lead level.
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Oct 23, 2019 13:10
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Gildiss posted:I also like how these interviewers are damning the interviewees for decisions made on a team/team lead level. If you’re going to do things the “wrong” way (even if wrong is subjective) then you should back up why you’re doing it that way. “my last team relied heavily on integration tests due to x, y, and z. I advocated for more unit tests but we couldn’t get the practice to stick” is a lot better of an answer.
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Oct 23, 2019 13:24
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Gildiss posted:I also like how these interviewers are damning the interviewees for decisions made on a team/team lead level. interviewers rating interviewees based on tiny whims? in MY tech industry???
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Oct 23, 2019 14:45
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