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OwlFancier posted:It's like if you boss couldn't actually fire you but came in threatening to stop telling you what to do, how would you react? I would lmao, op E: probably the worst snipe in UKMT history
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Oct 22, 2019 21:08
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Pesmerga posted:In which case the whip system is largely pointless, as is the idea of political parties, if anyone just votes whichever way. Parties and the whip system are soft power, they work on aggregate, they do not work absolutely and if they did, jeremy corbyn would not be in politics because he would have got the sack decades ago.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:08
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josh04 posted:Seems pretty straightforward that Jezza made a deal to allow MPs from leave areas to vote yes on the second reading so long as they voted down the timetable. This. Pretty telling that only those who vote consistently against the party on Brexit voted aye on the timetable. Corbyn plays another blinder.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:08
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Pesmerga posted:This isn’t some victory, at this rate, it’s just delaying defeat as Labour go from rearguard action to rearguard action, and unless something changes, the deal is going to get through at the third stage. All this talk of the wreckers somehow coming around between now and then is hubristic. Delaying until the EU returns an extension is literally the game play right now, why... why exactly is delaying a bad play when it's the best thing to do?
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Oct 22, 2019 21:09
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Remove the whip from these wrecker cunts
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Oct 22, 2019 21:10
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It’s a question of faith at this point. Some people have faith they’ll somehow come around when it counts, despite all the evidence to the contrary, whereas I don’t. Some are jumping ship out of politics altogether, or don’t care if Labour loses the next election so long as they get to say they voted against Brexit and get to keep their seats. This isn’t even about Brexit at this point, it’s about the fact I really think they’re loving Labour’s chances at the next election.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:10
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Brony Car posted:So much of the appeal of Brexit at this point is the feeling that you’re moving somewhere and not just stuck in some bureaucratic limbo, right? The irony is the only way to get it done and over with is to just not bother and Remain. I think people should really be pushing that idea because brexit fatigue is a thing, and actually passing a deal is just the beginning of this bullshit
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Oct 22, 2019 21:11
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Corbyn should have used the secret Psychic Dominator he's been building at an abandoned Nandos to mind-control all MPs and make them vote to institute the Socialist Social United Republic of Great Britain
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Oct 22, 2019 21:11
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If the Tories thought they could gently caress the DUP and get away with it like they did the Lib Dems they're in for a bad time. Those fuckers bear grudges for centuries 
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Oct 22, 2019 21:12
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The Labour MPs have completely hosed this right? I don’t believe this isn’t exactly the outcome Johnson wanted. He now gets an election where he’s both the man who delivered a Brexit agreement and had it stymied by the enemy-of-the-people Parliament. He gets to have his cake and eat it.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:12
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the beeb posted:"We are wallowing in the realms of metaphysical abstraction," says Speaker John Bercow. lol
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Oct 22, 2019 21:13
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Pochoclo posted:Corbyn should have used the secret Psychic Dominator he's been building at an abandoned Nandos to mind-control all MPs and make them vote to institute the Socialist Social United Republic of Great Britain He's saving the battery on that for his final strike against Israel
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Oct 22, 2019 21:14
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kecske posted:lol Mmm haha...yes...
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Oct 22, 2019 21:15
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peanut- posted:The Labour MPs have completely hosed this right? I don’t believe this isn’t exactly the outcome Johnson wanted. Everything johnson has suggested thus far is that he wanted to rush this thing through without scrutiny and have it agreed to by october 31st, and he does not appear like he's going to get that at all.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:15
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peanut- posted:The Labour MPs have completely hosed this right? I don’t believe this isn’t exactly the outcome Johnson wanted. But it wasn't stymied, which is what Pesmerga et al are so wound up about. Parliament voted to take the bill to a second reading and the government are now sitting on it to prevent it from progressing.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:16
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I would heavily bet that as boris's intent is clearly no deal, he is furiously phoning everyone in the EU and asking them to vote down the extension or offer only a very short one, while he sits on the bill. In the hopes that he can rush it through under panic of no deal, and then no deal by default in a year once it lapses.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:19
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:lexit though
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Oct 22, 2019 21:20
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josh04 posted:But it wasn't stymied, which is what Pesmerga et al are so wound up about. Parliament voted to take the bill to a second reading and the government are now sitting on it to prevent it from progressing. u wot
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Oct 22, 2019 21:20
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https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1186737952313004032?s=21 Oh, neat, Tusk is doing the nice, predictable thing.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:20
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OwlFancier posted:I would heavily bet that as boris's intent is clearly no deal, he is furiously phoning everyone in the EU and asking them to vote down the extension or offer only a very short one, while he sits on the bill. In the hopes that he can rush it through under panic of no deal, and then no deal by default in a year once it lapses. Yeah pretty much
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Oct 22, 2019 21:21
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*Boris trips and falls face-first into a pile of his own excrement* "Clearly this shows how weak Corbyn is"
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Oct 22, 2019 21:22
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Ms Fuchi posted:*Boris trips and falls face-first into a pile of his own excrement* The real Pissflaps is the brainspiders we developed along the way
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Oct 22, 2019 21:23
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1186737952313004032?s=21 Nice of him to point out whose fault it is, too 
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Oct 22, 2019 21:23
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1186737952313004032?s=21 Once its granted, does something have to go through Commons to make it law?
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Oct 22, 2019 21:23
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mfcrocker posted:Once its granted, does something have to go through Commons to make it law? not if it’s the three month extension to jan 31st, that’s already been voted on by the commons. any other date yes.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:24
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mfcrocker posted:Once its granted, does something have to go through Commons to make it law? Benn act already thought of that, he has to accept it immediately if it's the one till january, otherwise it has to go to the commons or be accepted no less than two days from receiving it.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:25
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Pesmerga posted:Why, to say that Labour wreckers are loving this, and if there were a time for Corbyn to start laying down party discipline it would be now? I think that the thread is too optimistic about all this somehow leading to a Labour government, rather than an amendment to have a customs union being voted down because it doesn’t end up with the support of the house, and you have people like Flint, Nandy, Fitzpatrick and Orr potentially voting against it for various reasons. I think Corbyn should threaten to remove the whip from rebels, but only when it comes to the crunch. I.e. the third reading of an unamended bill, OR a confidence vote. Like other people have said, it's a trick that only works once because if you remove the whip MPs have no further incentive to vote with you. It's also worth remembering that there is absolutely a core of five-ish Brexiteers who will vote with Johnson no matter what. So even though I'd be happy to be rid of them, the second reading would still have passed even if you turned around the other 14 rebels. Personally I think Corbs is trying to love-bomb the rebels by allowing them to vote for the second reading in the hope that they will vote for amendments that'll wreck the bill anyway. But like I say if it comes to the crunch I do think it should be a removal of whip issue.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:26
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The relevant text:quote:(2)If the European Council decides to agree an extension of the period in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union ending at 11.00pm on 31 October 2019, but to a date other than 11.00pm on 31 January 2020, the Prime Minister must, within a period of two days beginning with the end of the day on which the European Council’s decision is made, or before the end of 30 October 2019, whichever is sooner, notify the President of the European Council that the United Kingdom agrees to the proposed extension. As far as I am aware there is absolutely nothing the PM can do to refuse an extension if it is offered. Parliament should get a vote on it if it's a different date, but unless they decide not to pass the motion of acceptance boris has to inform the EU anyway that we accept. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Oct 22, 2019 |
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Oct 22, 2019 21:27
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This is also good because it means we likely have a very short turnaround before Labour can safely drop their VONC. Depending on how much they want to dig into Boris's deal first, of course.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:27
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So everything appears to be transpiring as I recall the plan being stated in UKMT a while back (e.g. basically wreck Johnson at every turn until we get an extension then VONC the fucker) so what's with all the doomsaying?
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Oct 22, 2019 21:29
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Darth Walrus posted:This is also good because it means we likely have a very short turnaround before Labour can safely drop their VONC. Depending on how much they want to dig into Boris's deal first, of course. The important date will probably be getting us past October 31st, which is when most voters will wake up to the fact that we haven't left. Right up until then Johnson and the media will still be pretending there is no delay.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:29
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Bundy posted:So everything appears to be transpiring as I recall the plan being stated in UKMT a while back (e.g. basically wreck Johnson at every turn until we get an extension then VONC the fucker) so what's with all the doomsaying? I think people are just a bit bummed that the second reading passed.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:31
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Bundy posted:So everything appears to be transpiring as I recall the plan being stated in UKMT a while back (e.g. basically wreck Johnson at every turn until we get an extension then VONC the fucker) so what's with all the doomsaying? It was completely unknown (to us) how the voting would go, it was drat tense and we're just reconstructing what we hope/presume the events were post hoc. If people are very unforgiving then this was a reckless gamble, otherwise it could be a plan still working.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:33
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Bundy posted:So everything appears to be transpiring as I recall the plan being stated in UKMT a while back (e.g. basically wreck Johnson at every turn until we get an extension then VONC the fucker) so what's with all the doomsaying? 19 Labour rebels seemed a lot after the 2nd reading passed. Turns out it was the right play not to go after them hard as it wouldn't have made a difference and then they may have voted for the timetable out of spite.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:34
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The "plan" is less of a plan and more a series of contingencies that give every possible opportunity for boris to eat poo poo and be forced to extend past his deadline and give us space for an election. And a distressing number of those contingencies are proving to be necessary.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:35
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peanut- posted:The Labour MPs have completely hosed this right? I don’t believe this isn’t exactly the outcome Johnson wanted. Assuming that the next step is an election this is the first time ever where the public will actually have a vote where a non-Remain Brexit option is on the table as an entirely known quantity. You can take every single negative thing about Boris' deal and turn it into a "if you vote for the Tories you definitely get this when Brexit happens" list, it's like the exact opposite of the original "just imagine whatever you like" referendum. Yes this probably isn't the best possible outcome but I think that knowing exactly what's on the table makes a big difference in terms of being able to argue against it in an election. OwlFancier posted:Nice of him to point out whose fault it is, too It's amazing how you actually get significantly better coverage of Brexit news (in purely factual terms) from EU twitter than from any of the UK domestic media jabby posted:I think Corbyn should threaten to remove the whip from rebels, but only when it comes to the crunch. I.e. the third reading of an unamended bill, OR a confidence vote. Agree with this, if there is a 3rd reading it needs to be nuclear (unless some amendment goes through to make it good but that seems ultra unlikely)
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Oct 22, 2019 21:35
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brexit is a super emotive issue, particularly for those with eg EU nationals as family members or similar. I think people can get a little frayed around it.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:36
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https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1186742484258508800?s=21 Just extra confirmation that the EU will probably be cool with the Benn Act, taking the extension out of the PM's hands.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:36
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Lol that most of the tabloids still have their little counter widgets counting down the days to Brexit even though a delay is pretty much certain now Are they just gonna keep adding days to them as the delays keep happening or what
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Oct 22, 2019 21:37
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Pochoclo posted:Lol that most of the tabloids still have their little counter widgets counting down the days to Brexit even though a delay is pretty much certain now Little do you know once they hit zero they underflow and it turns out we brexited several decades ago.
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Oct 22, 2019 21:38
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