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Honestly, the motion comic is pretty great. Still not preferable to reading the comic, but a decent enough imitation—certainly better than watching the Snyder movie to try to sidestep the original. The biggest flaw is that they had the same guy do all the voices. If they had thrown in a few more voice actors, or even just one additional one to play the women, it would significantly improve it.
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Oct 23, 2019 18:43
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feedmyleg posted:Lost. I never watched it. It sounds incredibly stupid and if Lindelof was involved that does not bode well for this show. The dude is so obviously Ozymandias he might as well be wearing a name tag. But maybe a name tag would be a hint that it's a misdirection? Maybe he failed to save humanity and the whole show is set on mars??
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Oct 23, 2019 19:05
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KoRMaK posted:Or Viedt turn himself into a manhattan type figure by going through the same process that manhattan did. Viedt had the machine for it, and he used it on Manhattan and his cat. Either way, I think Jeremy Iron's is playing a post IF subtractor subject character I think it's in the supplemental materials, but don't they explain how they tried to recreate Doc M and just ended up disintegrating people?
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Oct 23, 2019 19:06
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Mercrom posted:I never watched it. It sounds incredibly stupid and if Lindelof was involved that does not bode well for this show. Lost is terrific. But it also drove people insane and played guessing games with its audience.
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Oct 23, 2019 19:18
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feedmyleg posted:Lost is terrific. But it also drove people insane and played guessing games with its audience.
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Oct 23, 2019 19:22
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Mercrom posted:I never watched it. It sounds incredibly stupid and if Lindelof was involved that does not bode well for this show. The dude is so obviously Ozymandias he might as well be wearing a name tag. But maybe a name tag would be a hint that it's a misdirection? Maybe he failed to save humanity and the whole show is set on mars?? 
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Oct 23, 2019 19:24
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Mercrom posted:I never watched it. It sounds incredibly stupid and if Lindelof was involved that does not bode well for this show. The dude is so obviously Ozymandias he might as well be wearing a name tag. But maybe a name tag would be a hint that it's a misdirection? Maybe he failed to save humanity and the whole show is set on mars?? Judging Lindelof on Lost as some red flag that its going to be a terrible show is rediculous, especially given his last TV effort was a massive critical darling and hes repeatedly stated this show was only written for a 9 episode arc and that its possible to make a season 2, but this story was crafted with a single season in mind Like I get the ending of Lost was dissatisfying for a lot of people, but it was unprecedented for its time, basically ushered in the golden age of TV and was nominated for and won a bunch of Emmys throughout its run. Sure bitch about the ending or last few seasons all you want, but acting like it was some garbage tier show that is a black mark on his carrer is laughable.
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Oct 23, 2019 19:24
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Arist posted:It is, but I don't know why you'd assume that from the post count A 13 page thread for a show that just had it's debut on page 2 must mean people are talking about it.
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Oct 23, 2019 19:26
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I fuckin love Lost and Prometheus and laugh at all the haters
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Oct 23, 2019 19:26
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KoRMaK posted:
That’s Dollar Bill from the book. At first glance it seemed that he was black as well as maybe part of a franchise situation, but that could be lighting, as you’re right that white supremacists would likely not want pictures of a black Dollar Bill.
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Oct 23, 2019 19:30
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I love Lost, The Leftovers and Prometheus and I think Watchmen will stand alongside them. But I also think the actual Watchmen movie is pretty great too, so feel free to disregard my opinion.
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Oct 23, 2019 19:32
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Colonel Whitey posted:I fuckin love Lost and Prometheus and laugh at all the haters 
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Oct 23, 2019 19:45
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Lost is poo poo after season 1 because Lindelof just made poo poo up as he went and instead of wrapping anything up he just did exactly what creative but intellectually lazy people do and gave up with a minimal effort to conclude everything. "It was just about the characters" makes George Lucas's horseshit about rhyming seem insightful by comparison. This show will likely follow Lindelof's set pattern of interesting scenarios and good characterization combined with a plot that grows more complex, introducing more "twists" and unknowns, then it will end suddenly with all / most questions unresolved. The plot not making sense or not playing out will be overlooked due to a few characters getting emotional but obviously tacked on endings.
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Oct 23, 2019 20:28
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Midgetskydiver posted:because Lindelof just made poo poo up as he went Have I got some bad news for you about most TV, friend
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Oct 23, 2019 20:33
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Midgetskydiver posted:Lost is poo poo after season 1 because Lindelof just made poo poo up as he went and instead of wrapping anything up he just did exactly what creative but intellectually lazy people do and gave up with a minimal effort to conclude everything. "It was just about the characters" makes George Lucas's horseshit about rhyming seem insightful by comparison.
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Oct 23, 2019 20:35
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Rorscach the character might not have been a white supremacist, but his fans in the 7th Kalvary, just like the irl people who think he was the hero
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Oct 23, 2019 20:52
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Midgetskydiver posted:Lost is poo poo after season 1 because Lindelof just made poo poo up as he went and instead of wrapping anything up he just did exactly what creative but intellectually lazy people do and gave up with a minimal effort to conclude everything. "It was just about the characters" makes George Lucas's horseshit about rhyming seem insightful by comparison. lol ^me laughing at a hater
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Oct 23, 2019 20:54
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major spoilers from a first 6 episodes viewer [/spoiler] Mod edit: Don't post spoilers from episodes that haven't aired yet. Somebody fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 23, 2019 20:55
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Gorn Myson posted:Is this a bot that creates the most boring early-2010s opinions on culture Nah, its someone who has no idea how the TV industry operated in 2004. They didnt even know how many seasons ABC was going to give them until halfway through shooting season 3. Theres even a document that leaked awhile ago showing the initial plan for the show that ABC required before greenlighting the first season. They changed a lot of that plan throughout its run, obviously, as you simply could not plan an entire network show that big and expect to be able to stick to it. You can create a general outline of the big plot beats but how and when you get there is largely figured out as you go. This is true for pretty much every single TV show ever created. I.E. They had an entire multi season arc for Mr. Eko planned but the actor wanted to do other stuff so he quit and they had to drop it and kill him off. AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Oct 23, 2019 |
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Oct 23, 2019 20:56
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LesterGroans posted:Have I got some bad news for you about most TV, friend It's not really news. Most TV sucks. Quality shows with actual plot resolution are generally written by people who contemplate the narrative implications of what they write rather than just throwing in more plot lines for the sake of novelty. That's what Lindelof does. He has good ideas. He's a good writer. But he's lazy and doesn't care about writing a story with a 3rd act. Some characters get dramatic deaths or whatever but the story doesn't ever conclude because "it's not meant to" or whatever doodoo rationale he buys into. I don't expect everyone to agree. I'm not going to denigrate people who disagree.
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Oct 23, 2019 21:03
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People who bang on constantly about plot resolution are the most tedious people to discuss art with
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Oct 23, 2019 21:05
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Midgetskydiver posted:It's not really news. Most TV sucks. Quality shows with actual plot resolution are generally written by people who contemplate the narrative implications of what they write rather than just throwing in more plot lines for the sake of novelty. That's what Lindelof does. He has good ideas. He's a good writer. But he's lazy and doesn't care about writing a story with a 3rd act. Some characters get dramatic deaths or whatever but the story doesn't ever conclude because "it's not meant to" or whatever doodoo rationale he buys into. Damon Lindelof posted:"We plotted out these nine episodes so that we knew exactly where we were headed so that every mystery and every question that we were asking would be resolved." AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Oct 23, 2019 |
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Oct 23, 2019 21:14
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KoRMaK posted:Viedt had the machine for it, and he used it on Manhattan and his cat. What if jeremy irons is bubastis learning to manifest herself as human???
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Oct 23, 2019 21:20
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AccountSupervisor posted:it was unprecedented for its time, basically ushered in the golden age of TV I loved the first three seasons but Lost came after The Sopranos, The Wire and others that outclass it in every way. Lost did pioneer in a few areas though. Not many shows had attempted to be quite as cinematic before it or maintain a single coherent serialised narrative over several seasons. It also created the often-ripped off technique of simulating a rich backstory by interweaving flashbacks into every episode. stev fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Oct 23, 2019 |
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Oct 23, 2019 21:44
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I mean a network TV show is almost certainly not going to be as good as a premium cable show
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Oct 23, 2019 21:51
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There was all the stuff before The Sopranos too, like Twin Peaks or the great foreign language dramas like Berlin Alexanderplatz. Good TV existed before the Y2K scare. I’ve gone up and down over the years on Lindelof and I think season 1 of The Leftovers is the only thing of his I think is good without any kind of asterisk next to it. Still, this Watchmen pilot seems better the more I stew on it and these interviews have me increasingly (But still cautiously) optimistic about the rest of the series.
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Oct 23, 2019 21:53
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If he's Manhattan, why does he accent all his possessions with purple and yellow? If he's Veidt trying to clone Dr. Manhattan, why bother cloning his wife? What about her DNA (since altering her upbringing is clearly fine) is so necessary?
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Oct 23, 2019 22:11
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Steve2911 posted:I loved the first three seasons but Lost came after The Sopranos, The Wire and others that outclass it in every way. Oh for sure, The Sopranos and The Wire certainly elevated the quality bar of TV to new heights and Id say they certainly had the earliest presense in the golden age but Id argue the sheer cultural impact and obsessive viewer base that Lost had surpassed both of those shows by the time season 1 was over. Maybe "ushered in" wasnt the right term, but it absolutely defined the modern TV experience that continues today. The scale, production, structure, mysterious plot and complex, racially diverse and socially progressive ensemble cast was unprecedented for a TV show at that time, especially a network show. Basically Id argue Lost was a bigger factor in why shows like GoT were possible than The Sopranos and The Wire. Keep in mind the pilot cost $12mil to make in 2004, which was unheard of at the time and more than even the most expensive episodes of GoT cost. Raxivace posted:There was all the stuff before The Sopranos too, like Twin Peaks or the great foreign language dramas like Berlin Alexanderplatz. Good TV existed before the Y2K scare. Good TV has always existed, Im not saying Lost was the first good TV show lol. Im specifically addressing what is considered the "Third Golden Age of TV" which is regarded to have started in 2000 and continues to today. AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Oct 23, 2019 |
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Oct 23, 2019 22:11
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The problem with Lost is that it is a great premise with an amazing cast that is ruined by lazy and terrible writing. It's not even fair to call the show a mystery box since every single ~mystery~ that pops up is solved by the first of three spaghetti salvos fired by the writers, through the characters. Add to that the knowledge you get on a second viewing that none of the characters have any arcs and that the main protagonist literally spends the entire series running in ineffectual circles, and you get a recipe for disaster and backlash.  AccountSupervisor posted:Damon Lindelof posted: Well, at least he's learned his lesson?
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Oct 23, 2019 22:14
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Well, at least he's learned his lesson? Yes that and its also an entirely different situation than writing a show for ABC in 2004 There are realities to writing and crafting TV shows, especially in 2004 before these types of investments were common place by networks, that I think people are ignorant to and do not often consider when it comes to things like this. Thats nobodies fault, but its worth taking into account before throwing words like "lazy" around. Im not saying Lost was perfect or didnt have any plot issues but I think the expectations audience had and still have for it exceed what was realistically possible for the most part.
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Oct 23, 2019 22:23
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AccountSupervisor posted:Yes that and its also an entirely different situation than writing a show for ABC in 2004 Eh I wouldn't call Lost lazy by any means. It just seems senseless to write that kind of story without working backwards from some end point. They could've just written "the island is on the moon" or something on a post it note and kept it in mind when coming up with ideas and mysteries.
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Oct 23, 2019 22:46
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AccountSupervisor posted:Yes that and its also an entirely different situation than writing a show for ABC in 2004 I dunno, I think the backlash is deserved since the show always sold itself as something that it never was. If you wanted a mystery, they planned to never explain the central one and were criminally lazy with the rest. The best example is Charlie dying to tell them it wasn't Penny's boat, a reveal that led to...exactly nothing. Killed off a major character for no reason and no payoff. You can't even give them the benefit of the doubt and say they were doing something meta with having Jack run around in circles the entire show since nothing clever is revealed with that knowledge. Definitely a product of the time, the show wanted to be a serial adventure drama but there isn't a single episode that bothers to actually consider future or past events or how they fit together. Leftovers had similar issues, especially in the first and second seasons, but surprisingly Lindelof renegged on his initial statements and did explain the ~central mystery~ on that show. This to much more acclaim, I may add. He's definitely got a little bit of the same problem that Abrams has: great with set up but lousy with payoff. I am guessing that HBO breathing down his neck for a new prestige fantasy-drama helped curb a lot of his worse tendencies, however. Steve2911 posted:Eh I wouldn't call Lost lazy by any means. It just seems senseless to write that kind of story without working backwards from some end point. You could almost call it...lazy? 
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Oct 23, 2019 22:52
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KoRMaK posted:Watch the 6 hours of the motion comic first and then when you get to the end and forget why you started watch it you'll be elated that there is now new content You, sir, have made my night.
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Oct 23, 2019 22:53
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Just LOL at the idea that budget constraints are what caused Lindelof to introduce entirely new plot threads and characters 4 seasons into a show then drop them all in favor of a magical happy church ending.
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Oct 23, 2019 22:56
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I don't know what the specific problems with Lost are exactly. From what I've heard it sounds like the kind of show that's just random and nonsensical for the shock value. I don't think that has anything to do with writing forwards or backwards.
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Oct 23, 2019 23:01
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:there isn't a single episode that bothers to actually consider future or past events or how they fit together. Yeah sorry guy Im gunna go ahead and stop my end of this discussion right at this remarkably stupid conjecture.
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Oct 23, 2019 23:03
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Mercrom posted:I don't know what the specific problems with Lost are exactly. From what I've heard it sounds like the kind of show that's just random and nonsensical for the shock value. I don't think that has anything to do with writing forwards or backwards. These two things are pretty linked in the case of Lost. Rather than deal with the consequences of introducing new elements into the plot, he kept introducing more to distract the audience, giving the distinct impression that these disparate links would be resolved at the end. His solution to the problem of resolution was to just keep expanding the story (via random and nonsensical new plot devices he didn't plan for to begin with).
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Oct 23, 2019 23:16
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Here’s Lindelof on the issue of making cops seem sympathetic. I think it’s a good answer, I’m intrigued to see where the show takes it. https://www.npr.org/2019/10/22/771998690/watchmen-creator-damon-lindelof-not-talking-about-race-felt-irresponsible quote:On whether he had reservations about portraying police as victims of violence
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Oct 23, 2019 23:24
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I liked the part where the dad does coke and then the daughter and wife both lightly acknowledge the coke on his nose but then don't immediately follow up with some speech about them being worried or something.
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Oct 23, 2019 23:43
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Leftovers had similar issues, especially in the first and second seasons, but surprisingly Lindelof renegged on his initial statements and did explain the ~central mystery~ on that show. This to much more acclaim, I may add
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Oct 23, 2019 23:43
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