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Bojack is one of the people that is punished the least by the bad things he does, in fact.
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Oct 26, 2019 15:10
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FullLeatherJacket posted:I enjoyed it overall, and I'll have to see where they take it in the second half, but I'm not entirely convinced by the ending arc. It doesn't really feel like they're building up a detailed story about the complexities of recovery as much as they're setting up a convoluted Todd-style plot where everyone with any kind of grudge from the last 20 years drops a karmic anvil on Bojack's head so that the audience can feel sad. It doesn't help that they still have the weird contrast where for the purposes of this universe, billionaires are now allowed to murder people and you can sext a twelve year old and say three hail marys, but everyone is going to care deeply that Bojack got shithoused with some teenagers, that he slept with his friend's not-girlfriend, or that he didn't save a 30-year-old woman from her own demons because he once played her dad on a TV show? This is why I believe many of his consequences will be entirely personal. You don't think Pete Repeat telling Hollyhock that it was Bojack at the prom will have any effect specifically on his relationship with Hollyhock? What I believe the show is building up to, and of course until January it's as much a shot in the dark as anyone's, is that true recovery is impossible without real accountability.
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Oct 26, 2019 15:20
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Also was that pig reporter character just a His Girl Friday parody that missed the mark? or is there some other source material i'm missing?
No Wave fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Oct 26, 2019 |
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Oct 26, 2019 15:26
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Jason Sextro posted:This is why I believe many of his consequences will be entirely personal. You don't think Pete Repeat telling Hollyhock that it was Bojack at the prom will have any effect specifically on his relationship with Hollyhock? I mean, I'm sure for the purposes of the show it will, but Hollyhock has seen Bojack out of control and chugging vodka already. She's been out with him on a night mission to score pain pills. She, presumably, knows he's been in rehab for the last six months. I very much read it that her anxiety about drinking is directly related to understanding the impact it had on Bojack. I guess I don't get why a complete stranger mentioning encountering Bojack drunk and out of control years ago is the one revelation that's going to undermine her relationship with him. Is it actually news to her that he was a mess?
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Oct 26, 2019 15:56
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I think attempting to have sex with a teenager is the big thing here. Being drunk and out of control is one thing, but, uh, statutory rape is probably a step too far.
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Oct 26, 2019 16:01
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Huh... Is this the first time we've seen Captain Peanutbutter's wife?
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Oct 26, 2019 16:13
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FullLeatherJacket posted:I mean, I'm sure for the purposes of the show it will, but Hollyhock has seen Bojack out of control and chugging vodka already. She's been out with him on a night mission to score pain pills. She, presumably, knows he's been in rehab for the last six months. I very much read it that her anxiety about drinking is directly related to understanding the impact it had on Bojack. I think it’ll cause a rift, sure, but they will make up later in the season. Out of the other characters I can’t think any of them will be surprised by his behaviour. Diane already knows, PC and PB will easily forgive him given that he’s done worse. Although could he be in legal trouble for giving Sarah Lynne the drugs that killed her? That might be a thing. I was watching BoJack the Feminist the other day and the Vince guy had done way worse poo poo and got the forgiveness award. They even name checked Polanski in this season and he’s much grosser than BoJack.
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Oct 26, 2019 16:26
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Waffleman_ posted:I think attempting to have sex with a teenager is the big thing here. Being drunk and out of control is one thing, but, uh, statutory rape is probably a step too far. I'm not defending Bojack here but Penny specifically says that 17 is the age of consent in New Mexico (I literally just rewatched the episode). Penny also wasn't drunk, so I'm confused as to why the situation with Penny would be considered statutory. Again I'm not defending Bojack or being a rape apologist, I'm just trying to see if there is something I'm missing.
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Oct 26, 2019 16:38
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Episode 7 was interesting to me because I'm all about wanting happy endings for all my Bojack friends, but I was also reminded of something that bothered me with the ending of Mad Men which was that the happy ending and recovery came so quickly and that there wasn't a sense of gradual change that tends to come with irl recoveries. Like obviously Bojack has grown and gotten better as a person, but I guess sometimes I feel like shows about characters with depression don't always know how to show the struggle and gradual improvement that comes with getting better. The nights where you basically have to fight like hell with your inner demons and (metaphorically) tie yourself to a chair to keep yourself from loving up, or where you have to deal with making improvements but the rest of the world isn't responding to them the way you want them too. Again, I see there's some of that in Bojack, but I personally wanted to see more of that. Then after not paying attention through most of episode 8 (I just can't get into the side characters), they hit us with that ending and I'm like "Okay, now I'm feeling it."
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Oct 26, 2019 16:38
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Also seeing talk of antidepressants be relegated to one episode when it's such a major part of modern depression for a lot of folks felt disappointing to me. I've had a complicated relationship with antidepressants, so I'm a little worn when antidepressants are characterized as "Oh I'm happier with them but they make me boring and I'll gain weight." Like yeah, that happens sometimes, but there's a whole lot of other dimensions to antidepressants and I guess I wanted to see more of that. Obviously, Bojack is under no obligation to cater to my needs or perspective, but it's just how I felt watching it.
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Oct 26, 2019 16:41
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On Episode 6: It's funny that Mr. Chavez isn't proud of Todd given that he founded an enormously successful tech start-up and was an executive at a somewhat successful media company. Maybe he disowned Todd for creating Henry Fondle.
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Oct 26, 2019 16:45
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Pump Jockey posted:I don’t want to get all Netflix definitely buries stuff they expect to get heavy traffic on some people’s queues to optimize server load. Back when they were getting marvel movies I used to have to dig for them, and then I’d get a banner ad like two-three days later.
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Oct 26, 2019 16:53
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“Netflix is trying to screw over the Bojack/Tuca animators for unionizing by doing a piss poor job of promoting their shows”
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Keep watching. I finished the "season" and it still just feels off. The way Bojack came into terms with it was that "yeah I it was my fault, but I'm not a person who can only cause harm and misery to people", when in reality it wasn't even his fault at all. Just an accident and crazy coincidence. Pump Jockey posted:I don’t want to get all That would hardly be a conspiracy.
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Oct 26, 2019 17:09
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Little on the nose that a union walkout was a plot point this season though.
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Oct 26, 2019 17:22
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Waffleman_ posted:I think attempting to have sex with a teenager is the big thing here. Being drunk and out of control is one thing, but, uh, statutory rape is probably a step too far. They definitely made clear that Penny was of legal age, but to be honest I'm not sure that Pete Repeat would even know about that. pospysyl posted:On Episode 6: It's funny that Mr. Chavez isn't proud of Todd given that he founded an enormously successful tech start-up and was an executive at a somewhat successful media company. Maybe he disowned Todd for creating Henry Fondle. That was the one other thing that sat poorly with me. I really hope there's a payoff to that arc in the second half that's something more than, "you're white", because that's a fairly lovely takeaway from Todd's stepdad. "Does my son have any skills or abilities that I might have underestimated? No, he was clearly handed everything completely without merit due to his skin colour because class isn't a thing and that regularly happens to poor white dudes who sleep on people's couches. Well done, idiot son, I love you now."
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Oct 26, 2019 17:31
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FullLeatherJacket posted:
Also it felt weird to me that he was all "I was mean to you because the world will be mean to you." That he only recanted because his son was white. Which, uh, I feel like there are other reasons to recant that attitude other than the color of your child's skin.
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Oct 26, 2019 17:42
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Yeah I feel like maybe that's a thing that would have felt more natural happening earlier in the series, like season 3 or something.
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Oct 26, 2019 17:45
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Although it did make me want to give thanks to the flawless logic of lovely parents everywhere of "I only ruined your life in childhood in preparation for the world ruining your life in adulthood!"
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Oct 26, 2019 17:50
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I think the problem with episode 6 is that the writers want an important conflict for Todd so that he can have a big, cathartic resolution to cap off his character with, but they only have a single episode to introduce this problem so they have to rely on a lot of cliches and tropes as shortcuts to establish the conflict. It's comprehensible, but it feels empty because there's nothing substantive that's unique to the show's storyline or Todd's character. You could do that plot with any character that doesn't already have an established relationship with their parents and it would make just as much sense.
pospysyl fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Oct 26, 2019 |
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Oct 26, 2019 18:18
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On the reporter storyline, I think there are a couple of things: 1. The reporter is chasing the Sarah Lynn story. Penny is a step toward that story, but revealing the truth of what happened to Sarah Lynn would probably completely ruin him. 2. Or maybe it wouldn't because the show has made clear a bunch of times that any amount of abuse can be heaped on women and society will excuse it.
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Oct 26, 2019 18:40
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No Wave posted:Also was that pig reporter character just a His Girl Friday parody that missed the mark? or is there some other source material i'm missing? There's a "His Squirrel Friday" poster in the background during several scenes so maybe not
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Oct 26, 2019 18:58
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I just dont get why they replaced Cary Grant's character with a pudgy alcoholic guy who looks like Gomez Adams.
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Oct 26, 2019 19:07
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Xanderkish posted:Also it felt weird to me that he was all "I was mean to you because the world will be mean to you." That he only recanted because his son was white. Which, uh, I feel like there are other reasons to recant that attitude other than the color of your child's skin. This also has the "Bright problem". Would race and ethnicity in humans matter as much in a world with humanoid animals, insects, and what not running around? I'd imagine that speciesism would be far bigger problem than racism.
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Oct 26, 2019 19:32
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I can't stay mad at Todd's stepdad because he's voiced by Jaime Camil.
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Oct 26, 2019 19:35
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What horrid creature is Whitewhale’s assistant supposed to be? An anemone? A nautilus without a shell?
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Oct 26, 2019 19:40
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punk rebel ecks posted:I finished the "season" and it still just feels off. The way Bojack came into terms with it was that "yeah I it was my fault, but I'm not a person who can only cause harm and misery to people", when in reality it wasn't even his fault at all. Just an accident and crazy coincidence. You’re reading it backwards, or at least the opposite way I am. Bojack has spent his entire life blaming others for his unhappiness. He has a lot of self-loathing, but every flashback has been about how his mother, or father, or producer, or that rhino calling him a nerd one time, were the source of his misery. It took watching another guy completely self-destruct and blame it on the nearest guy for Bojack to finally internalize that he’ll never get better as long as his shittiness is someone else’s fault. Doctor Champion isn’t Bojack’s victim or dad in that scene, he’s just Bojack.
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Oct 26, 2019 19:43
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No Wave posted:Also was that pig reporter character just a His Girl Friday parody that missed the mark? or is there some other source material i'm missing? Her outfit was based on Grace Kelly in High Society.  This is one of my favourite movies so I was so excited to see it referenced! In the film, there are a couple of journalists chasing a salacious story, so I guessed the other character was based on Frank Sinatra in that film.
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Oct 26, 2019 19:52
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Henchman of Santa posted:What horrid creature is Whitewhale’s assistant supposed to be? An anemone? A nautilus without a shell? I think she's supposed to be a barnacle.
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Oct 26, 2019 20:33
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SEX BURRITO posted:Her outfit was based on Grace Kelly in High Society.
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Oct 26, 2019 20:52
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The screen joke “Admissions Scandal Rocks Booty Academy” was my strongest laugh line of this half of the season. Building Bojack up into a more sympathetic character in this half of the season, fully expecting that he will be crushed like an ant later is what I am least looking forward to in the second half of the season. Obviously, he’s only really trying to make things right for the people in his inner circle while still treating those outside of that circle with the standard contempt, but then again, the same is true of PC in the union busting episode. . I’m sure January will be the death of me.
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Oct 27, 2019 01:39
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I had it in my head that this would be the full last season and was a bit confused with the episode I thought to be the series finale. It would be an interesting way to end the show, but I prefer to see some fallout.
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Oct 27, 2019 09:47
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Best part of the season so far is Judah's back!  Not looking forward to Penny getting dragged into the spotlight, Hollyhock being (rightfully) furious with Bojack, and Bojack trying to follow his hero's example (framed like him falling into the pool in the opening sequence) when it all comes crashing down on him.
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Oct 27, 2019 10:10
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Was that mid-sentence joke a jab at any particular movie or show?
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Oct 27, 2019 13:13
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My favorite theory out there is that this entire run has been a set up for the shaggiest dog story and that the series will end (This isn't a spoiler, but I'm spooling it anyway on the off chance it's right)the show ends with beaten down Bojack walking into a bar, ordering a drink, and really considering whether or not he wants to drink it. As the he stares at Oblivion in a glass the bartender asks him "why the long face?" *cut to black*
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Oct 27, 2019 14:14
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It was a decent enough half season so far. I like fat Diane.
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Oct 27, 2019 17:48
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Xanderkish posted:Also seeing talk of antidepressants be relegated to one episode when it's such a major part of modern depression for a lot of folks felt disappointing to me. I've had a complicated relationship with antidepressants, so I'm a little worn when antidepressants are characterized as "Oh I'm happier with them but they make me boring and I'll gain weight." Like yeah, that happens sometimes, but there's a whole lot of other dimensions to antidepressants and I guess I wanted to see more of that. I’m guessing there will be more about the antidepressant thing in future episodes. I agree though, there’s more to it than getting fat and boring. I was more fat and boring before taking pills, since I was eating crap, getting drunk and generally being annoying. There could be a twist that Diane isn’t fat because of antidepressants. All the messy sandwiches and pizzas and genetics just caught up with her in her mid-30s.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:43
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uhhh isn’t fat Diane a totally separate character unless I’m forgetting something from the last couple eps
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Oct 27, 2019 22:13
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This show has completely thwarted all of the tension it is building up. Seriously what revelation would even drat him? That he didn't sleep with a young girl, that some kids got drunk at a prom, that Sarah Lynn willingly relapsed with him and partied for months, that Gina Cazador didn't press charges? The show has taught us that there will be no comeuppance. Vance Waggoner did worse and he came back every time. I don't understand why I should have any anxiety about the reporters or Penny or Sarah Lynn because this whole show has been horrible revelations to the audience and to the other characters.
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Oct 27, 2019 22:16
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Dmitri-9 posted:That he didn't sleep with a young girl, that some kids got drunk at a prom, that Sarah Lynn willingly relapsed with him and partied for months, that Gina Cazador didn't press charges? There will be consequences. They just might not be legal consequences. Do you think once all that news comes out, he'll still be teaching at loving Wesleyan, of all places? That he'll have a good relationship with his sister? That the world won't turn on him once it comes out what a scumbag he is? And do you think he won't struggle to not relapse in the face of it? No. This is going to be devastating.
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Oct 27, 2019 22:27
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Any of those things will be enough to lose him his new job and send him back down a drunken binge. Probably try to kill himself too. My current guess is jumping off the observatory.
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Oct 27, 2019 22:33
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