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goddamnedtwisto posted:Running past Balfron is the tattered remains of London's version of this: I watched that vid a few weeks ago and I found it fascinating.
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Oct 27, 2019 08:36
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WhatEvil posted:Does the thread think it'd be valuable to start like, a collaborative google doc or something which contains links to articles/images/tweets which are good to use as arguments/refutations etc. to common fascist/Tory/Lib Dem (but I repeat myself) talking points? Nobody picked up this post but this is a fantastic idea that I think we should spend some time thinking about.
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Oct 27, 2019 09:23
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Rarity posted:Nobody picked up this post but this is a fantastic idea that I think we should spend some time thinking about. Yeah I'd use this
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Oct 27, 2019 09:31
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goddamnedtwisto posted:These could only ever be a stopgap though, and the sheer scale of the problem - perhaps even more than the NHS and welfare state, which let’s not forget were also being set up at the same time in this country crippled by war, just in case anyone wants to get arsey about whether or not the country can afford something - was completely uncharted territory. The between-the-wars slum clearances had built around 250,000 homes in 20 years; Britain needed 10 times as many homes now.  A+ effortpost... Some questions, to pick your brain a bit: I do see this specific brick-shortage claim sometimes in analyses of postwar construction, and it does mystify me a little. For one: postwar mass residential construction in South Korea, Malaysia, Singapore, etc. resorted to massive amounts of reinforced concrete frames and hollow block/sand brick infill for code reasons (the immense fear of residential fire would not weaken until relatively recently; even today there are heavy code restrictions on timber-frame drywall housing across the region). Sandbrick as fill is cheaper than load-bearing brick walls - I am not an expert but I believe the quality of the brick can be much lower, can be made out of recycled rubble, and requires fewer layers. e.g., these are contemporary two-storey residential terrace houses in Malaysia, note extensive use of RC frames to allow non-load-bearing brick infill, here looks like prefab on the left:   (yes, 'tis normal to require a SDS hammer drill just to hang up a coat hook) This was a phenomenon that set in during the 1960s. What restrictions did the UK face that was so different a decade before? goddamnedtwisto posted:We all point the finger at Thatcher and Right to Buy as the thing that destroyed working-class communities up and down the country, but I would say that Blair’s huffing of the private sector’s farts had just as much to do with it, at least in areas like Poplar where things were mostly not broke and really didn’t need fixing. While admittedly it was Thatcher who bought in the legislation that allowed councils to sell off their housing stock to the private sector, it was Blair that made it almost impossible for them *not* to sell. By cutting off their access to central government funds for large-scale capital expenditure projects, long-term maintenance of a housing stock rapidly approaching half a century old became impossible. The UK gave up on public housing for the bulk of society as a public policy goal by the 1970s, but in the countries which did not, we do see that postwar row blocks are steadily demolished in favour of Scandinavian-influenced point blocks by the 1980s. The UK moved in the opposite direction - after some experiments in tower blocks in the 50s and 60s, local bylaws generally moved to prohibit further high-rise construction and instead favour more row blocks (naturally only for the low-income). Elsewhere, that paternalistic fascination with residents having numerous accessible neighbours is trumped by privacy being a greater concern, especially for middle-class residents Like many things New Labour, the non-compromise that resulted is the outcome of the lack of social consensus for what the public fisc is supposed to be spent on. If there were a commitment to housing the middle class in public housing, then I think public funding would have been found for it in some form. Still, that funding would have still have gone on to build the densely-packed five-to-ten storey towers that characterize regeneration London today. This is by inference from what those first-world societies have gone on to do - at least, those that sustained mass public housing. But I don't see any wealthy society retaining the Soviet-style row block. ronya fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Oct 27, 2019 |
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Oct 27, 2019 09:38
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Lol at everything about these Nazis and calling themselves proud boys and being 50+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_CVz8bG0rw
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Oct 27, 2019 09:46
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Really enjoyed the housing chat especially the big ol' effortposts There's lots of high density housing that got thrown up in southend around the 50s and 60s that is now really depressing and dilapidated because of neglect- the towerblocks have been bad a long time but some of the nicer estates where it's maisonettes and/or flats stacked with good general planning got notably worse since 2010 because the youth groups and sure start groups e.t.c just faded away. Some places it's all the more sad because you can walk round and see how it was planned out to be, with the parks, playgrounds and the recreation centres and such but it's all shuttered up, run down and entirely uncared for- less a community more just a bunch of people living stacked up on each other with not much hope of interaction because everyone has to go elsewhere to do anything. The council have been making noises about the "redevelopment" of a few of the towers and I can't say I have looked at the plans but if it goes anything like other developments it means "luxury apartments" and some agreement with the development firms that some percentage* of the build will be affordable** where the asterisks represent "poor people can gently caress right off". Scant attention will also be provided to any kind of amenities like parking or excess traffic, lack of gp surgery and school places, bus routes, green spaces or loving anything like that, because southend council are remarkably corrupt and/or incompetent. Maugrim posted:Yeah I'd use this Me, myself, also
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Oct 27, 2019 10:00
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Rarity posted:Nobody picked up this post but this is a fantastic idea that I think we should spend some time thinking about. An Imgur album (for ease of copy/pasting links to images) would seem a natural home for this.
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Oct 27, 2019 10:01
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ronya posted:
It was both materials and labour shortage. Notably Goldfinger's first public buildings after the war were also RC with brick infill, but the technique never really caught on presumably because they jumped straight to LPS and steel-frame construction - the one missing thing in post-war housing is that kind of medium-density construction, it's either tower blocks or terraces with a few exceptions, mostly semi-prefabs like Grant House which I mentioned. By the 70s they went for more much smaller blocks with traditional construction both because people were very suspicious (with good reason) of LPS and tower blocks in general after Ronan Point and because by the 70s it was more of a job creation scheme than a need to have as much housing as possible in the shortest time. Bow has a bunch of late-70s blocks like these which are actually quite an interesting hybrid construction - the white stripes suggest they're RC slab floors like the pre-war mansions (and this may have been a deliberate stylistic nod), but they're actually a covering over a pre-formed void concrete floor (think of the floor as like a giant breeze block laid on its side) carrying all the utilities and also providing amazingly good thermal and noise insulation, with breeze blocks used for all of the internal load-bearing walls - the bricks are only supporting their own weight up the height of the next floor slab. The 70s block I live in is also a weird hybrid, with the honeycomb (i.e. no supporting walls at front or back) cast-in-place RC construction (and weird overlapping maisonettes) of Balfron but in a low-rise with a (single course!) brick outer. It's stupidly over-engineered for the application and seems to have been a bit of an experiment by the GLC in new ways of building low-maintenance housing right at the tail end of the boom. Also timber-framed buildings have been banned in London since 1666 - there has been literally one timber-framed building built in inner London since then, the recreation of the Globe
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Oct 27, 2019 10:24
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WhatEvil posted:If ever you pick up something or use a product and think "Well that's a stupid loving design/lovely product" then it's usually due to capitalism and the profit motive. I wish I could find the video that explained it, but a good example is this - if you ever play a game that has a guidance arrow in the top centre of the screen that emulates a 3d plane (so can point forwards, left, right, back, up, down etc), it's probably either by Microsoft or is paying Microsoft a bunch of money, since they are the ones who patented it for crazy taxi. And so despite it being a great solution for offering guidance in a 3d plane, small devs who can't afford the initial outlay have to come up with an alternative. And while this can lead to innovation, most of the time it leads to new products awkwardly having to avoid the obvious solution. Companies can also gently caress their competitors over by setting unreasonable demands as part of the license, which is just further shittiness on top of the existing dickery. (Sidenote - this is why it's really nice that the unreal and unity engines allow people to use them for free until they make their first $10k, at which point they have to then start arranging a license / royalty structure. Both engines have already paid to use the various patents they incorporate) This also almost completely hosed Android a few years ago when Apple tried to sue Samsung over some fairly intuitive UI elements that would have made android absolutely unusable as a consequence - things like pinch zooming, long presses and multitouch, as well as the home and back buttons. I personally think that you should not be able to sell on a loving patent. Give patent holders the means to license it to manufacturers to ensure they are correctly compensated, certainly, but one of the many elements of unrestrained capitalism that we need to end is predatory corporations existing solely to reap the compensation of other people's work.
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Oct 27, 2019 10:34
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https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1188386189822300160?s=19
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Oct 27, 2019 10:36
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WhatEvil posted:Does the thread think it'd be valuable to start like, a collaborative google doc or something which contains links to articles/images/tweets which are good to use as arguments/refutations etc. to common fascist/Tory/Lib Dem (but I repeat myself) talking points? Yes I think a great idea. I'm seeing the IRA/Hamas/Anti-semite thing all coming up more frequently again. I did some looking up of the IRA thing and fed up of the only counter being a link to a squak box post saying Mo Mowlem invited JC to negotiations when the only thing that comes up when you google is Mo Mowlem angry he invited Sinn Fein to H o C and a comment that someone's husband (or wife) used to work with him and went to Belfast a lot. So I went in the newspaper archives. I get the impression many people have forgotten generally that at the time all this was going on (80s 90s), internet didn't exist as it does now with so much information, so just because it's not on google doesn't mean it didn't happen. I posted yesterday a newspaper archive of Corbyn roundly condemning IRA bombings in 1996 (and now of course can't find my post with the link!) Also I found this in the archives from 1995: I think it's helpful, others may have a different view and I'd be more than happy to hear reasons! 
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Oct 27, 2019 10:36
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Don't forget also patent trolling. In recent years it's become responsible for products (in particular indie games) having to avoid obvious solutions because someone already patented the obvious solution, their family sold the patent and it ended up in the hands of a corporation who then jack up the price to stupid extremes, or just sue anyone who happens to come up with the same solution without checking. This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZvD2IOvop8&t=418s ee: This *is* the one I was thinking of, timestamped now goddamnedtwisto fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Oct 27, 2019 |
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Oct 27, 2019 10:37
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Abbott on tv this morning dodging the Labour Conference Free Movement motion again. It's very sad to see that not getting the acceptance by the leadership it needs.
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Oct 27, 2019 10:51
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goddamnedtwisto posted:In a move that should be a much larger black mark in it’s history Labour caved to this pressure and with the 1948 British Nationality Act stripped tens of thousands of Irish people living in the UK of their British citizenship unless they could prove they had a right (through blood or military service) to it. Many did (including my granddad, which is why this post is about London social housing and not… whatever the gently caress happens in Cork) but many (including, of course, Spike Milligan) saw this as the studied insult that it was, and chose to return “home” even if none of them had ever set foot there before. Hang on, surely the CTA still applied? As Irish citizens they still had every right to be there?
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Oct 27, 2019 10:53
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Don't forget also patent trolling. In recent years it's become responsible for products (in particular indie games) having to avoid obvious solutions because someone already patented the obvious solution, their family sold the patent and it ended up in the hands of a corporation who then jack up the price to stupid extremes, or just sue anyone who happens to come up with the same solution without checking. The issue is the application of patents, which always have been about physical objects - machines,drugs,gadgets etc - to software concepts. Mathematical and scientific theories, business management theories aren't patentable and have never been, and alot of the software patents seem to fall more into that category than anything real. When you are making a gadget, or a part of a gadget and you find a better way to make it, it makes sense to patent doing so and sell it to other makers of that gadget. But alot of software patents seem have been granted for what are really basic concepts (the equivalent of the wheel), I assume because the patent offices at the time didn't have a good grasp of what an inventive step in software meant. And since software moves so fast, the 20-year restriction is still weighting down on the field in a way it won't in 10-20 years when patent offices actually understand software and give out patents more strictly.
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Oct 27, 2019 10:57
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feedmegin posted:Hang on, surely the CTA still applied? As Irish citizens they still had every right to be there? Think it was suspended during the war and for a good few years after
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Oct 27, 2019 10:57
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goddamnedtwisto posted:This one? A lot of these patents last 20 years or more, which means that's 20 years where nobody can build on or go near that concept. It's crazy and it's actively holding back progress so that lazy shites can make big number bigger, but hey,  E: Nothingtoseehere posted:But alot of software patents seem have been granted for what are really basic concepts (the equivalent of the wheel), I assume because the patent offices at the time didn't have a good grasp of what an inventive step in software meant. And since software moves so fast, the 20-year restriction is still weighting down on the field in a way it won't in 10-20 years when patent offices actually understand software and give out patents more strictly. I had an HTC at the time so it might have been the sense UI they were targetting. A lot of people thought that rather than attacking Android directly, they were trying to establish precedent by attacking manufacturer UI first. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Oct 27, 2019 |
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Oct 27, 2019 11:05
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namesake posted:Abbott on tv this morning dodging the Labour Conference Free Movement motion again. It's very sad to see that not getting the acceptance by the leadership it needs. It really demonstrates that Corbyn and the leadership only follow the ‘we listen to the membership and they determine our policies when it suits us’ approach that they criticised in previous leaderships.
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Oct 27, 2019 11:10
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feedmegin posted:Hang on, surely the CTA still applied? As Irish citizens they still had every right to be there? Not until 1952 they didn't. And the point was a lot of them - having fought in the war for the British, and often having roots in both countries - were being told "No, you have to *prove* that you're British". e: Spike Milligan is the perfect example of this. His parents were Irish but he was born in (British colonial) India while his dad served in the British Army, he was bought up in south London and fought and was wounded in the war, and he was told (after he demobbed) that in order to leave the country again he'd need to submit documentation proving he had a right to British citizenship (and that his birth certificate and Army paybook weren't sufficient). The requirements weren't *massively* onerous but as so often with British immigration law the point was that it was starting from a position of "Listen you filthy foreigner, prove you have a right to call yourself a part of our vastly superior race or gently caress off". goddamnedtwisto fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Oct 27, 2019 |
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Oct 27, 2019 11:12
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Also I found this in the archives from 1995: I think it's helpful, others may have a different view and I'd be more than happy to hear reasons! as with many things Corbyn-related, it's worth contextualizing what the mainstream/soft-left/hard-left positions were at the time. All-party peace talks were already theoretically on offer by 1995 - the problem was that the IRA had declared a ceasefire but openly rejected disarmament, and indeed communicated (to nationalist audiences, although naturally unionists would be in earshot of such messaging too) that if the negotiations failed to produce acceptable outcomes then the bombings would resume The govt of John Major had a twofold problem: one, it was never actually promised to the IRA that the ceasefire would be a sufficient condition for participation in talks; rather it was assumed tacitly that a ceasefire would come with demilitarization and the tactic of finessing the two was unexpected. The IRA did understand the condition as a sufficient one and denounced it as a goalpost shift. Second, his government was dependent on Unionist votes following a steady series of CON revolts over Maastricht, so the question, now raised, could not be resolved. With that in mind, the point here is that if the defence of Corbyn is this, then it has to be acknowledged that 1) Downing St was already theoretically open to all-party peace talks by 1995, but on the condition of disarmament; and 2) Sinn Fein was barred because it rejected disarmament - but by 1995 advocating the lower standard of a ceasefire only was no longer a novel position, now that the Clinton administration had firmly inserted itself as a negotiating party capable of whipping the British government back to the table regardless of immense domestic pressure in the UK otherwise; indeed it was Labour's public position, and Major would promptly go on to be "bombed to the table" the next year, despite the fury of backbench Conservatives; 3) what Corbyn was uniquely advocating, in 1995, was dropping both disarmament and ceasefire (he always advocated talks even before the ceasefires and the principle of consent - the controversial Corbyn-invites-Adams-to-the-Commons incident was in 1984, not 1995), as well as unilateral withdrawal from Northern Ireland as the main way to resolve the talks. Those were what set him apart from the UK mainstream at the time, and it remains faintly ridiculous in Good Friday hindsight. ronya fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Oct 27, 2019 |
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Oct 27, 2019 11:22
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This whole Salma Yaqoob thing is looking weird, and after wholeheartedly supporting her a few days ago Owen Jones has now gone pretty quiet over her.
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Oct 27, 2019 11:34
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Instead of social housing, move those people into the houses of the richest people as roommates and sit back and watch as the housing crisis solves itself one way or the other
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Oct 27, 2019 11:39
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https://twitter.com/agirlcalledlina/status/1188387687486631938?s=20 Imagine taking a picture of someone sleeping on the train. loving hell.
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Oct 27, 2019 11:41
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forkboy84 posted:https://twitter.com/agirlcalledlina/status/1188387687486631938?s=20 Whats with the 4 days to brexit thing? Are they pretending Johnson hasn't asked for an extension, and that the EU has agreed to an extension?
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Oct 27, 2019 11:46
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forkboy84 posted:https://twitter.com/agirlcalledlina/status/1188387687486631938?s=20 TRAITOR JERMY naps in train instead of praising the Queen constantly every minute of his life No we didn’t take pictures of the tories having their coke party that would be an invasion of privacy I mean seeing a picture of a politician riding a train like the rest of us mortals just endears me to him more
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Oct 27, 2019 11:47
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kemikalkadet posted:Whats with the 4 days to brexit thing? Are they pretending Johnson hasn't asked for an extension, and that the EU has agreed to an extension? ignoring that is a core government position isn't it
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Oct 27, 2019 11:48
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Pochoclo posted:TRAITOR JERMY naps in train instead of praising the Queen constantly every minute of his life GOING TO SCOTLAND when are brave boys were beating the All Blacks though. Traitorous behaviour.
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Oct 27, 2019 11:50
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https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1188408856793235456?s=20
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Oct 27, 2019 11:56
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https://twitter.com/johnjcrace/status/1188225187403239425?s=21 The replies are fun.
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Oct 27, 2019 11:58
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Pesmerga posted:This whole Salma Yaqoob thing is looking weird, and after wholeheartedly supporting her a few days ago Owen Jones has now gone pretty quiet over her. did she even do anything or is this another episode of accusing anyone who criticises israel or agrees that palestine exists of being turbohitler
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Oct 27, 2019 11:58
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Looking at that Heil story (so you don't have to), it seems like there's enough of a level of self-awareness on the reporter's part that they have to churn out that poo poo and are being blatant about it. Here's the last couple of paragraphs, bolding mine:quote:Despite missing the match, Mr Corbyn tweeted his congratulations as soon as it ended, somehow deciding it was ‘an incredible team performance and hard-fought victory’. Also there are eight comments and all eight are making GBS threads on the article, three being a variation of "I think he's a oval office but you're even worse".
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Oct 27, 2019 12:02
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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On the subject of housing chat, I dunno why we haven't moved housing underground at scale. Offices and commerce too. The land beneath our feet is pretty much infinite. You could give every person in the country more room than they could reasonably make use of. It's not like people look away from their phones these days anyway to peer at the outside world, and you could just have a digital window showing you a rainforest or some poo poo, if that's your thing. Just get some tunnel boring machines and automate the process. Tracks between underground houses could be used for electrified trams. Pedestrian and biking lanes besides. Then, the land above ground could slowly be turned into a mostly public space (parks, schools, hospitals etc) and a lot of re-wilding done. Probably tech, geology, and cost are the reason, but where there's a will there's usually a way.
Exioce fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Oct 27, 2019 |
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Oct 27, 2019 12:06
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RottenK posted:did she even do anything or is this another episode of accusing anyone who criticises israel or agrees that palestine exists of being turbohitler She's run against labour candidates repeatedly before finally joining the party to run as one. and thats before you look at anything else
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Oct 27, 2019 12:09
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Exioce posted:On the subject of housing chat, I dunno why we haven't moved housing underground at scale. Offices and commerce too. The land beneath our feet is pretty much infinite. You could give every person in the country more room than they could reasonably make use of. It's not like people look away from their phones these days anyway to peer at the outside world Are you a boomer, because that is some boomer rear end poo poo. Natural light is good.
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Oct 27, 2019 12:11
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Exioce posted:On the subject of housing chat, I dunno why we haven't moved housing underground at scale. Offices and commerce too. The land beneath our feet is pretty much infinite. You could give every person in the country more room than they could reasonably make use of. It's not like people look away from their phones these days anyway to peer at the outside world, and you could just have a digital window showing you a rainforest or some poo poo, if that's your thing. Just get some tunnel boring machines and automate the process. Tracks between underground houses could be used for electrified trams. Pedestrian and biking lanes besides. Then, the land above ground could slowly be turned into a mostly public space (parks, schools, hospitals etc) and a lot of re-wilding done. Probably tech, geology, and cost are the reason, but where there's a will there's usually a way. its really loving expensive
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Oct 27, 2019 12:12
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Exioce posted:On the subject of housing chat, I dunno why we haven't moved housing underground at scale.
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Oct 27, 2019 12:15
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forkboy84 posted:Are you a boomer, because that is some boomer rear end poo poo. Gen X, thankyouverymuch. Natural light is great, but we're at the point now where we can generate that indoors artificially. I'm not suggesting we live some kind of Morlock existence forevermore, but it theoretically gives everyone the living space they need/want.
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Oct 27, 2019 12:17
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Jose posted:its really loving expensive Currently, but advancing automation tech and economies of scale could eventually make it viable.
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Oct 27, 2019 12:18
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Exioce posted:Currently, but advancing automation tech and economies of scale could eventually make it viable.
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Oct 27, 2019 12:20
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tunnel boring machines and artificial ground freezing both seem to be becoming mature technologies; we should expect ambitious tunnel projects to become more common. Yes, it's expensive, but so are prime locations.
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Oct 27, 2019 12:21
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