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Invalid Validation posted:We produce enough money to feed everyone in the world.
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Oct 29, 2019 20:06
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Invalid Validation posted:We produce enough food to feed everyone in the world but there’s no money in feeding the poor. Mcdonalds
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Oct 29, 2019 20:23
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silence_kit posted:I thought the problem in America wasn’t that poor people go hungry, it was that poor people get too fat from not exercising and eating unhealthy convenience food. There's so many layers of poor in America. Some people starve or don't go to the doctor in order to keep a roof over their heads. I don't think this demographic gets much exposure. The US prides itself on "pull yourself up by your boot-straps" which seems to make being poor shameful in society. Most of the time you hear about it after the fact when something terrible like CPS getting involved. I suspect most die quietly. Most of this is conjecture. I don't have any evidence to support this theory. It's just what I've seen around where I live.
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Oct 29, 2019 20:26
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silence_kit posted:I thought the problem in America wasn’t that poor people go hungry, it was that poor people get too fat from not exercising and eating unhealthy convenience food. 37 Million Americans lack of consistent access to enough food for an active, healthy life.
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Oct 29, 2019 20:41
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I grew up moving every year, being homeless at times, not knowing when my next meal would be etc etc until I turned 14 or so. I was skinny as hell until I had a stable place to live with plenty of food. Now I have to consciously remind myself that each meal will come on time and that I don't have to overeat so I won't be hungry later
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Oct 29, 2019 22:13
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Lambert posted:In 1983 the CIA came to the conclusion that the average Soviet citizen was eating about the same amount of food as Americans, but that their diet was more nutritious: This is pretty interesting.
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Oct 29, 2019 22:41
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I grew up moving every year, being homeless at times, not knowing when my next meal would be etc etc until I turned 14 or so. I was skinny as hell until I had a stable place to live with plenty of food. Now I have to consciously remind myself that each meal will come on time and that I don't have to overeat so I won't be hungry later This is a thing that fucks with you long-term if you've been poor enough to live with food insecurity. It's been a few years since I had to worry about it, and I still find myself keeping a month's worth of canned/dried goods in the pantry just in case I have to stretch a paycheck.
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Oct 29, 2019 23:32
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There's not really such a thing as "unhealthy food" and prancing around acting like if only the majority of the population liked slightly different food they wouldn't get fat from overeating it is merely an exercise in competing marketing budgets. And overeating by a little bit, but enough to add up over decades and decades to being rather overweight is extremely easy to do when food is widely available and people aren't at risk of undergoing starvation. People who have been at risk of starvation will tend to overeat even more... but it's still something that takes an extended time to build up to serious overweight, let alone obese. Which is why you see fatness rising globally, America just got to it first because America was about the least hosed up and richest country after World War II, where the full machinery of plentiful food was available.
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Oct 29, 2019 23:34
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There is absolutely 100% such a thing as unhealthy food, and it definitely turns into an unhealthy diet when consumed near exclusively, which is what regularly happens with low income people in food deserts.
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Oct 30, 2019 03:36
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Quandary posted:There is absolutely 100% such a thing as unhealthy food, and it definitely turns into an unhealthy diet when consumed near exclusively, which is what regularly happens with low income people in food deserts. Actually, the "unhealthy diet" that the vast majority of Americans partakes in is simply eating a lot of food, total. Whatever fad diet you have in mind is not the secret to morally upright food.
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Oct 30, 2019 03:44
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I grew up moving every year, being homeless at times, not knowing when my next meal would be etc etc until I turned 14 or so. I was skinny as hell until I had a stable place to live with plenty of food. Now I have to consciously remind myself that each meal will come on time and that I don't have to overeat so I won't be hungry later A family friend adopted twin infants from an orphanage in Kazakhstan. They used to eat as much as they could, then hide food in their cheeks, like chipmunks, for later.
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Oct 30, 2019 04:31
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fishmech posted:Actually, the "unhealthy diet" that the vast majority of Americans partakes in is simply eating a lot of food, total. Whatever fad diet you have in mind is not the secret to morally upright food. At first I was like who is this moron. Then I was like oh it’s that moron. You show up everywhere, like bad posting is a sport you’re trying to be a professional at. It’s actually kind of impressive.
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Oct 30, 2019 06:02
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fishmech is the kind of guy who eats a small bag of potato chips exactly one designated serving size at a time
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Oct 30, 2019 06:14
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Liquid Communism posted:This is a thing that fucks with you long-term if you've been poor enough to live with food insecurity. It's been a few years since I had to worry about it, and I still find myself keeping a month's worth of canned/dried goods in the pantry just in case I have to stretch a paycheck. This is good practice, regardless, in case of natural disasters.
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Oct 30, 2019 06:22
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pseudanonymous posted:At first I was like who is this moron. Then I was like oh it’s that moron. You show up everywhere, like bad posting is a sport you’re trying to be a professional at. It’s actually kind of impressive. Care to provide any evidence for your own misguided diet plan that would totally make the entire western world no longer fat? It's a consistent pattern across dozens of cultures with wildly different foodways and the only thing in common being food is now (rightfully) cheap. Or do you just want to yell about how the ungrateful poor are enjoying the wrong foods?
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Oct 30, 2019 06:37
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fishmech posted:Care to provide any evidence for your own misguided diet plan that would totally make the entire western world no longer fat? It's a consistent pattern across dozens of cultures with wildly different foodways and the only thing in common being food is now (rightfully) cheap. never change, fishmech
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Oct 30, 2019 06:39
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fishmech posted:Care to provide any evidence for your own misguided diet plan that would totally make the entire western world no longer fat? It's a consistent pattern across dozens of cultures with wildly different foodways and the only thing in common being food is now (rightfully) cheap. Let's revisit your stupendously stupid comment that no food is unhealthy instead.
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Oct 30, 2019 07:16
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Sugar in large quantities can really add on the weight. When you combine that with fat, well, the body burns the sugar first. When everything you eat and drink has sugar in it, including things that didn't used to, like chicken soup and bread, well, your body forgets to burn the fat. It's something I've learned from trying out a keto diet to get the fat reserves off my organs and my HDLs in check. Mediterranean diet was a good example of a naturally occurring healthy diet in a not-third-world area. Now that people are eating more American style products, obesity has gone up in that region. Cause and effect. inkblottime fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Oct 30, 2019 |
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Oct 30, 2019 07:47
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Unoriginal Name posted:Let's revisit your stupendously stupid comment that no food is unhealthy instead. No food is unhealthy yeah. Sorry about what you want to believe about spooky ghost foods. inkblottime posted:Sugar in large quantities can really add on the weight. When you combine that with fat, well, the body burns the sugar first. When everything you eat and drink has sugar in it, including things that didn't used to, like chicken soup and bread, well, your body forgets to burn the fat. It's something I've learned from trying out a keto diet to get the fat reserves off my organs and my HDLs in check. Translation: if you eat food in large quantities you put on weight. Wow, what a stunning revelation, using a lot of the basic caloric ingredients increases the calories. Which Mediterranean diet by the way? They hardly are the same in Gibraltar as in nice as in Athens as in Gaza as in Cairo in the first place.
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Oct 30, 2019 08:04
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fishmech has taken up the torch for this argument before on the forums, and it is one I am sympathetic to. There are a lot of paradoxes in how food moralists (never heard this phrase before fishmech used it just now--I think it is really appropriate) talk about America's food industry, Americans' food habits, and the correct way to eat food. I think a lot of nutritional advice is just the naturalistic fallacy writ large. Eating a small or moderate amount of 'processed' or convenience food is not going to make you weigh 300 pounds, nor will it make you malnourished.
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Oct 30, 2019 11:52
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fishmech posted:No food is unhealthy yeah. Sorry about what you want to believe about spooky ghost foods. You're going to tell me that this meal is healthy? https://www.nutritionix.com/i/hungry-man/classic-fried-chicken-mesquite/5854e3e2c57e95f91e7f6158 It's one serving, 1,050 calories, and contains 111% of your daily fat, and 86% of your daily sodium intake for the day. It also only contains 10%-20% of your required vitamins a day. You could eat two of these a day and stay pretty close to the recommended daily caloric intake while doubling the amount of fat you should consume a day while also getting a quarter of the vitamins you should be consuming a day.
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Oct 30, 2019 12:35
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Bird in a Blender posted:You're going to tell me that this meal is healthy? you see, people just need to set half the meal aside and eat it another day. personal responsibility
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Oct 30, 2019 12:48
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Bird in a Blender posted:You're going to tell me that this meal is healthy?  : Eating two of those a day every day would be an unhealthy eating habit yet you could eat that from time to time and be fine so that food is not 'unhealthy'.This is how every example goes.
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Oct 30, 2019 13:30
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It's physical inactivity that is the real unhealthy part. You're never going to burn off all the calories you consume by doing exercise but your body will naturally require more calories to operate if you're fit and healthy so all the energy (fat, sugar, whatever) gets used up instead of sticking around. What I'm saying is that ridiculous chicken dish is only as unhealthy as the person eating it is. Sedentary people consuming pure fast energy food and drink (eg soft drinks filled with sugar) is really awful, as another example.
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Oct 30, 2019 13:48
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Bird in a Blender posted:You're going to tell me that this meal is healthy? I don't know if Hungry Man is a good example of "food". It's essentially Bachelor Chow from Futurama (now with flavor!). It's for slobby single men with no one who cares about them in their immediate lives. And I do mean men. I've never seen a woman buy one. Many of my guy friends otoh.
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Oct 30, 2019 13:56
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Flayer posted:It's physical inactivity that is the real unhealthy part. You're never going to burn off all the calories you consume by doing exercise but your body will naturally require more calories to operate if you're fit and healthy so all the energy (fat, sugar, whatever) gets used up instead of sticking around. What I'm saying is that ridiculous chicken dish is only as unhealthy as the person eating it is. Sedentary people consuming pure fast energy food and drink (eg soft drinks filled with sugar) is really awful, as another example. You will not be able to out-train a diet comprised of that fat and salt lick block of horrors. For the simple fact that the macros in it are terrible. You all are something else with this poo poo.
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Oct 30, 2019 15:23
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Apparently, subsisting entirely on pork rinds is healthy. Just brilliant stuff.
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Oct 30, 2019 15:40
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I feel like everyone involved in this argument should post their definition of "healthy," because fishmech seems to be technically right if healthy just means "won't automatically make you fat." I know a guy who is chronically underweight, does literally no physical activity, lives on Celeste frozen pizzas, and probably hasn't cooked with a vegetable in thirty years. As dumb as that is, there's nothing weird about the fact that he's not fat. He just doesn't eat a lot. I'm being kind of pedantic, but this seems important if you want to talk about nebulous ideas like why Americans (and pretty much the whole developed world at this point) are fat.
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Oct 30, 2019 15:47
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Chronically underweight is also likely to be unhealthy. The two big takeaways from this discussion are that Americans need more exercise (meaning more free time during times when exercise is appealing) and that American portion sizes in both restaurants and pre-packaged food are deeply wrong and intentionally gamed.
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Oct 30, 2019 15:51
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Thundercracker posted:I don't know if Hungry Man is a good example of "food". It's essentially Bachelor Chow from Futurama (now with flavor!). It's for slobby single men with no one who cares about them in their immediate lives. Devour has taught me you can have Mac and Cheese for dinner every night!
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Oct 30, 2019 15:52
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Paradoxish posted:I feel like everyone involved in this argument should post their definition of "healthy," because fishmech seems to be technically right if healthy just means "won't automatically make you fat." the original derail is about how lack of exercise and abundance of cheap fatty junk food is one of the things that makes americans overweight, which is pretty noncontroversial one of fishmech's pet arguments is that any food is healthy in moderation which misses the point that, well, people don't moderate their consumption of cheap processed food because of all the relative advantages that cheap processed food has. he also brought up "well other people elsewhere in the world are fat for different reasons" which is an argument that has little bearing on why americans, in america, get fat on junk food it's a bit like saying the opiate crisis is overblown because people can just do heroin once in a while and be totally fine
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Oct 30, 2019 15:58
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Bird in a Blender posted:You're going to tell me that this meal is healthy? That meal is totally fine. Food you dislike does not equal deadly toxins or whatever you're on about. I'll go ahead and remind you that lack of vitamins is extremely uncommon in America due to the fact that Americans eat a whole ton of food in general, much of which is fortified with vitamins beyond what would ordinarily be in the food - and that people are totally fine for vitamin consumption as long as they average out to the correct amounts over weekly to monthly periods. You sound like those people who virulently push for taxes for soda yet have no interest in taxes on lovely juices that are just as sugary, or expensive coffee stuff that's far higher calorie. You know, because what it comes down to is you being angry that people aren't enjoying the right kind of food. luxury handset posted:people don't moderate their consumption of cheap processed food There is literally no such thing as "processed food" outside of scare mongering and diet salesmanship. No coherent definition of it can be made which wouldn't mean that only straight up raw stuff counts as "not processed". Liquid Communism posted:American portion sizes in both restaurants and pre-packaged food are deeply wrong and intentionally gamed. Cheap food is an umbiguous social good, large portions are a social good. Particularly with the way many poor people lack the time and/or working equipment at home to cook up enough food for themselves otherwise. TyroneGoldstein posted:You will not be able to out-train a diet comprised of that fat and salt lick block of horrors. For the simple fact that the macros in it are terrible. Show me a few hundred thousand people who actually eat just that and I might consider it relevant. As it is there's all kinds of dumb ways people can choose to eat from any set of foods you personally don't disdain and still up looking unattractive to you - why care? It reminds me of how a sizable contingent on this site think it's common among the desperately poor to only eat traditional fast food and that's their problem - despite the fact that doing so is fairly expensive and even beyond that hurdle people rarely do it anyway. fishmech fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Oct 30, 2019 |
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Oct 30, 2019 16:13
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when human beings on planet earth who speak english are talking about processed food they usually mean this stuff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convenience_food
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Oct 30, 2019 16:17
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I thought trans fats are pretty unambiguously unhealthy? Most diets, holding net calories constant, are probably fine from a health perspective. The heart of the problem (here and on related issues like climate change) is that people consume too much and there's no easy way to profitably lower everyone's consumption.
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Oct 30, 2019 16:20
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luxury handset posted:when human beings on planet earth who speak english are talking about processed food they usually mean this stuff Yes a completely incoherent set of foods stigmatized by food moralists. Thanks for reinforcing its uselessness for addressing global and domestic fatness. have you seen my baby posted:I thought trans fats are pretty unambiguously unhealthy? They're also almost entirely banned from the food supply these days in the USA (though some foods naturally contain small amounts which are fine).
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Oct 30, 2019 16:20
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have you seen my baby posted:I thought trans fats are pretty unambiguously unhealthy? excuse me, but why do you want poor people to starve?
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Oct 30, 2019 16:21
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So there was unhealthy food until we banned trans fats.
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Oct 30, 2019 16:43
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fishmech posted:No food is unhealthy yeah. Sorry about what you want to believe about spooky ghost foods. I said nothing about eating in large quantities. Typically, a human is supposed to limit their sugar to 35g a day. You know some cups of yogurt have almost that.
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Oct 30, 2019 16:47
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inkblottime posted:I said nothing about eating in large quantities. Typically, a human is supposed to limit their sugar to 35g a day. You know some cups of yogurt have almost that. Why? 35g of sugar is only 135 calories.
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Oct 30, 2019 16:52
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inkblottime posted:I said nothing about eating in large quantities. Typically, a human is supposed to limit their sugar to 35g a day. You know some cups of yogurt have almost that. No one should care about your personal distaste for sugar except you. It sounds like you misunderstood some announcements about "added sugars" (itself a barely coherent term but whatever) and thought that was supposed to be all the sugar you ate period. Alternately you might be thinking of the guidelines issued to people who already have long term diabetes, and thus need to strictly regulate their consumption in tandem with their medications.
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Oct 30, 2019 16:58
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