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CGI Stardust
Nov 7, 2010


Brexit is but a door,
election time is but a window.

I'll be back

OwlFancier posted:

The open palm tit strike is actually jeremy's secret move, he's going to do it on johnson when he loses and banish him to the shadow realm.
Jeremy Corbyn has mastered the art of Hokuto no Ken Livingstone

ed: wildlife tax, this time the bullfinch

CGI Stardust fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Oct 31, 2019

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Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010

Tesseraction posted:

High fiving her tit last time clearly started an itch



Horny Grandpa and Tipsy Aunt, a tale as old as time.

https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/status/1189885785740337153

happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup
Pillbug

Lightning Knight posted:

For example, “lizard people” was another common favorite among the far right conspiracy crowd, though it’s mostly fallen out of fashion because it’s silly.

It died out because video codecs and TV definitions got better.
The crazies would freeze whoever they wanted to be a lizard on a low def lovely satellite feed footage or whatnot, and then claim the video codec glitching out was the person showing their lizard true form.
David Icke would do this too at the start, but has scrubbed most of his vids. I cant find them on YT.

For example, this wackjob here claiming Elvis is one due to crappy video resolution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOQcLZhF9Ak

CyberPingu
Sep 15, 2013


If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

OwlFancier posted:

By the way how are labour planning to do this 4 day work week thing?

Making every Friday a national holiday called "gently caress a Tory (figuratively or literally) Friday"

forkboy84
Jun 13, 2012

Corgis love bread. And Puro


Gonzo McFee posted:

https://twitter.com/ThatTimWalker/status/1189906584014610432

Don't think it's been confirmed but lol could you imagine?

Makes sense. Your leader losing their seat on election night is pretty bad optics & also means your party is immediately in disarray needing a new leadership contest. See Clegg, Nick in 2017. And the Liberals will have a good chance of experiencing it again with Swindon, Jo. If I was a Tory I'd want my leader in a seat like Rutland & Melton where even in the 1997 landslide they won over 45% of the vote.

Raffles
Dec 7, 2004

Guavanaut posted:

New World Ordahhh


this is funny but erm Bercow is actually Jewish

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

CGI Stardust posted:

Hokuto no Ken Livingstone

Well now you're got "six million.... are already dead" stuck in my head and I hate you.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Raffles posted:

this is funny but erm Bercow is actually Jewish

*swivels neck so hard it breaks like lowtax's*

I did not actually know this

wrap it up y'all Guava's in the fuckbarrel

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


Imagine if the tories won but Johnson lost his seat anyway.

I don't want it, but it would be entirely fitting for hellworld.

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

OwlFancier posted:

It might be hindered somewhat in that I think from a solid leftist position you end up, with a weird kind of perspective on conspiracy theories.

Like, yes, there is a shadowy group of assholes controlling the world, but they're not really concealed, they're just out of the limelight because they're simply in charge of the giant companies you are completely aware of and regard much like a force of nature, their existence is outside your everyday context, not actively covered up.

Yes, the rich are engaged in satanic paedophile sex cults, but they do that because they're rich, powerful, and isolated from the rest of society by that class separation and thus have nothing reining in their hosed up predilections, and also because they were all sent to schools where they sexually abuse each other for fun, because that's how high society works.

Yes, society is slowly being destroyed by the erosion of our cultural values and the rendering of people into mindless drones only capable of consuming celebrity gossip and cheap poo poo, but that's because capitalism proliferates and parasitizes all aspects of our lives and destroys any meaning or activity which cannot be monetized, it's not a jewish conspiracy to make marxists destroy the family with gay sex and alternative genders.

Essentially most conspiracy theories, I believe, do stem from actual problems, but they take root heavily in societies where the actual explanations are suppressed. And where the specifics of the conspiracy are wrong, they also represent the cognitive dissonance between what we are told the world is like, and how we actually experience it. The two do not sit comfortably in our minds and so we feel an innate attraction to things that explain that wrongness.

So I guess it makes me more sympathetic to conspiracy nuts. I mean they're hilarious, don't get me wrong. You're watching someone do cognitive donuts in the car park of their mind, and they can go zero to a hundred fast enough to give you mental whiplash, but I can't help but feel a sense of understanding for what's driving them to the place they're at.

Chris Dillow remarked, on the mural:

quote:

...

The point here is that capitalist oppression is structural. Workers are not exploited because capitalists are bad people. Instead, exploitation is an emergent process – it arises from the nature of capitalism, independently of anybody’s intentions. Marx was clear on this. The worker’s unhappy condition, he wrote “does not, indeed, depend on the good or ill will of the individual capitalist.” Instead, he continued:

>> Free competition brings out the inherent laws of capitalist production, in the shape of external coercive laws having power over every individual capitalist. (Capital Vol I Ch 10, part 5)

The problem with capitalism, in other words, is a systemic one. It has little to do with the character of individual capitalists. In fact, they, like workers, are constrained by the system. Capitalism is about structures and processes, not (primarily) morality. Inequality hasn’t increased since the 80s merely because bosses have become greedier. It’s because of processes such as financialization (pdf), technical change, globalization and the decline of trades unions and atomization of labour.

It is very easy for leftists to forget this (I do so myself sometimes) or not to know it in the first place and instead to adopt a moralistic account in which workers are exploited by greedy bosses and bankers. This, however, opens the door to anti-Semitism; once you start talking about greed you are only a few steps away from anti-Semitic clichés. Of course, many don't take those steps, but a few do.

Moralizing about capitalism carries another danger. It’s that economic systems rarely collapse simply because they are immoral. It was the guns of the Union army that defeated slavery more than the words of Frederick Douglass. And feudalism did not give way to capitalism because it was morally inferior. The job of replacing capitalism with socialism, by this reckoning, requires much more than moralizing. It requires the creation and expansion of socialistic institutions. Bleating about morality is little help here.

It has become common in the last few days to quote August Bebel: anti-Semitism is the socialism of fools. I’d add that it’s the socialism of moralizing fools.

mfcrocker
Jan 31, 2004



Hot Rope Guy
Hell yeah they just moved the Saturday Filton rally later in the day so I can make it now

Cheers Jezza

Jaeluni Asjil
Apr 18, 2018

Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Lightning Knight posted:

It’s a group of men with big noses who are implicitly being accused of controlling the world in front of a big Illuminati pyramid with “NEW WORLD ORDER” behind them. The leap tho is that after World War II a lot of the conspiracy inclined far right started veiling their antisemitic conspiracies behind vague concepts like NWO or UN black helicopters to basically launder their concepts. Then it’s disseminated as generic conspiracies and accepted by people who are conspiracy inclined but not necessarily explicitly far right, making them easy marks for cryptofascism.

Now what I would disagree with is that there’s not a clear line between this and Corbyn’s Facebook comment (lol) making him an evil antisemite, as opposed to an old grandpa using Facebook.


There’s precedent for this. For example, “lizard people” was another common favorite among the far right conspiracy crowd, though it’s mostly fallen out of fashion because it’s silly. The guy who came up with that literally believes there are actual lizard people, who happen to coincide with traditional anti Jewish conspiracy stuff like Rothchilds/Bilderburgs/cultural Marxism or whatever, and it just so happens the people who spread his conspiracies use it to mean (((lizard people))).

Unfortunately, I have seen some of this lizards / Rothschilds stuff on just a FEW VERY FEW comments on FB in some left groups where the members are definitely Boomer Olds using social media for the first time (eg when someone shares something someone else posted and it doesn't display just a 'content unavailable' message and unleashes a barrage of 'FB is censoring our posts' or 'why are the admins of this group deleting my posts' etc).

Friends I have from overseas in areas with mass protests eg Puerto Rico also share this image but as an anti-capitalist / bankers motif not as an anti-semitic thing.

Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010

Raffles posted:

this is funny but erm Bercow is actually Jewish

lmao I didn't know that. No wonder the Tories hate him.

Brony Car
May 22, 2014

by Cyrano4747

Raffles posted:

this is funny but erm Bercow is actually Jewish

YOU'RE ALL ANTI-SEMITES!


So what are voting participation rates like in the UK? Are they US-levels of low? Are they high?

Rustybear
Nov 16, 2006
what the thunder said

forkboy84 posted:

Makes sense. Your leader losing their seat on election night is pretty bad optics & also means your party is immediately in disarray needing a new leadership contest. See Clegg, Nick in 2017. And the Liberals will have a good chance of experiencing it again with Swindon, Jo. If I was a Tory I'd want my leader in a seat like Rutland & Melton where even in the 1997 landslide they won over 45% of the vote.

+ need your leader doing big headline grabbing events up and down the country throughout the campaign and not locked into their local constituency in a door-knocking death match.

Comrade Fakename
Feb 13, 2012


SpaceCommie posted:

Ha, no worries, I got asked by the local party to take a look at it.

The "data" is just the .json taken from the getvoting.org site today (wget https://www.getvoting.org/NewData.json) which just lists which party the site will tell you to vote for. This is what I was asked to look over.

The vote share etc is all 2017 data from here:
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7979/HoC-GE2017-constituency-results.csv

To be honest it's a bare bones pass on what data I could find so it's pretty preliminary.

Sure, I was referring to the version of the getvoting .json that was posted from last night, but that’s fine. You’re in the Labour Party then? Do you think you might be able/willing to talk to someone about this data and maybe provide a quote to a journalist?

sebzilla
Mar 17, 2009

Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.


Keith Vaz suspended for six months for ""expressing a willingness" to help buy cocaine for male prostitutes"

Is he standing for re-election? Going to be tricky on the doorstep.

Jaeluni Asjil
Apr 18, 2018

Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

OwlFancier posted:

By the way how are labour planning to do this 4 day work week thing?

For people working in offices it's easy - just ban endless, pointless meetings.

happyhippy posted:

It died out because video codecs and TV definitions got better.
The crazies would freeze whoever they wanted to be a lizard on a low def lovely satellite feed footage or whatnot, and then claim the video codec glitching out was the person showing their lizard true form.
David Icke would do this too at the start, but has scrubbed most of his vids. I cant find them on YT.

For example, this wackjob here claiming Elvis is one due to crappy video resolution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOQcLZhF9Ak

You can find a lot of his vids on davidicke.com if you really want to. I have a friend who is totally into Icke and is always forwarding links to the wretched things to me.

Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Oct 31, 2019

Guavanaut
Nov 27, 2009

Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998



Toilet Rascal

forkboy84 posted:

Makes sense. Your leader losing their seat on election night is pretty bad optics & also means your party is immediately in disarray needing a new leadership contest. See Clegg, Nick in 2017. And the Liberals will have a good chance of experiencing it again with Swindon, Jo. If I was a Tory I'd want my leader in a seat like Rutland & Melton where even in the 1997 landslide they won over 45% of the vote.
You keep Johnson away from our awful racist shitheap constituencies.

Raffles posted:

this is funny but erm Bercow is actually Jewish
Ha, I keep forgetting that. Probably because the press don't keep mentioning it as a reason why Corbyn is terrible, and his wife apparently supports Known Antisemite Masterminds Momentum.

sebzilla posted:

Keith Vaz suspended for six months for ""expressing a willingness" to help buy cocaine for male prostitutes"

Is he standing for re-election? Going to be tricky on the doorstep.
lmao "expressing a willingness" doesn't even meet the standards of "conspiracy to supply", the "we can't actually find anything but we don't like you" of the drug war.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

sebzilla posted:

Keith Vaz suspended for six months for ""expressing a willingness" to help buy cocaine for male prostitutes"

Is he standing for re-election? Going to be tricky on the doorstep.

They have politely asked him not to. However, he might decide to go for broke.

Rustybear
Nov 16, 2006
what the thunder said

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

Imagine if the tories won but Johnson lost his seat anyway.

I don't want it, but it would be entirely fitting for hellworld.

Won;t happen but they'd invest him into the lords double-quick and then parachute him in somewhere else.

British politics is simultaneously completely hamstrung and totally unrestrained by established precedent. It's the Simpson's gag of blowing dust off the law book all the way down.

mehall
Aug 27, 2010


OwlFancier posted:

By the way how are labour planning to do this 4 day work week thing?

Independent commission to ascertain the best way to do it, likely through bank holidyas etc.
The specific target goal isn't "4 day work week", but an average work week of 32 hours (maybe 30? I forget.)

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.

happyhippy posted:

It died out because video codecs and TV definitions got better.
The crazies would freeze whoever they wanted to be a lizard on a low def lovely satellite feed footage or whatnot, and then claim the video codec glitching out was the person showing their lizard true form.
David Icke would do this too at the start, but has scrubbed most of his vids. I cant find them on YT.

For example, this wackjob here claiming Elvis is one due to crappy video resolution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOQcLZhF9Ak

It totally died out before the furries started getting into it.

Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010

Brony Car posted:

YOU'RE ALL ANTI-SEMITES!


So what are voting participation rates like in the UK? Are they US-levels of low? Are they high?

Very low over the past few decades following a huge fall post 1997, now they're in the 69% range.

Raffles
Dec 7, 2004

Gonzo McFee posted:

Very low over the past few decades following a huge fall post 1997, now they're in the 69% range.

nice

Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010

Rustybear posted:

+ need your leader doing big headline grabbing events up and down the country throughout the campaign and not locked into their local constituency in a door-knocking death match.

Not going to stop me calling him a cowardly little bitch running for his safe space.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

mehall posted:

Independent commission to ascertain the best way to do it, likely through bank holidyas etc.
The specific target goal isn't "4 day work week", but an average work week of 32 hours (maybe 30? I forget.)

I ask because I think it might appeal to quite a few people but it'd help if I had some way to explain it, because obviously fewer hours isn't something everyone thinks of as a good thing.

Especially for higher earners I'm also not sure how to put it to them in a way that guarantees their pay level. I have some older relatives I might be able to convince if it meant they could keep their salary but work less.

Random Integer
Oct 7, 2010

sebzilla posted:

Is he standing for re-election? Going to be tricky on the doorstep.

I originally read this as "re-erection" which seems appropriate

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Gonzo McFee posted:

Not going to stop me calling him a cowardly little bitch running for his safe space.

it doesn't matter anyway, if he loses this election he's going to resign anyway since the humiliation of losing to Corbyn will make him a laughing stock

Guavanaut
Nov 27, 2009

Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998



Toilet Rascal

Tesseraction posted:

They have politely asked him not to. However, he might decide to go for broke.
As Labour or as an independent?

The Vaz machine vs. one of the younger Asian candidates he keeps shutting out or chasing off would be a sight to see.

And due to our broken voting system probably result in a win for Edward Yi He.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Random Integer posted:

I originally read this as "re-erection" which seems appropriate

opening the front door to find coked up, fully nude, keith vaz on your drive way, staring into infinity

Jaeluni Asjil
Apr 18, 2018

Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Random Integer posted:

I originally read this as "re-erection" which seems appropriate

Been amusing myself reading some of these #britainhasexploded things on twitter and after wondering for a while, why this hashtag? I had completely and utterly forgotten that we were supposed to brexit today.

(Not sure why I quoted you there RI, am off for my afternoon nanna nap shortly so that probably explains it).

mehall
Aug 27, 2010


OwlFancier posted:

I ask because I think it might appeal to quite a few people but it'd help if I had some way to explain it, because obviously fewer hours isn't something everyone thinks of as a good thing.

Especially for higher earners I'm also not sure how to put it to them in a way that guarantees their pay level. I have some older relatives I might be able to convince if it meant they could keep their salary but work less.

The Labour pledge is explicitly that the commission will investigate ways to reduce the average hours worked by full time employees without affecting their pay.
That's the full pledge.

SpaceCommie
Oct 2, 2008

I'm escaping to the one place that hasn't been corrupted by Capitalism ...

SPACE!



Comrade Fakename posted:

You’re in the Labour Party then? Do you think you might be able/willing to talk to someone about this data and maybe provide a quote to a journalist?

I'm a pretty junior member (only signed up in 2015 and I've only sporadically made meetings and canvassing where I can since).

All this really shows is that there's a discrepancy between the 2017 election results and the parties suggested by the website. I'm not sure how interesting that really is, if they're using more recent polling data/the EUs/locals then this is pretty meaningless (though the website should really make it clear how their predictions are made).

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Fair enough, not as concrete as I was hoping but I'll see how it goes.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Guavanaut posted:

As Labour or as an independent?


I'm assuming he'd try the former and then the latter. Suspect his sister might invite him round and give him some rubber hose cryptanalysis until he takes the sensible option.

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

OwlFancier posted:

By the way how are labour planning to do this 4 day work week thing?

the succinct graun summary

quote:

The details of the policy are rather different to the headline. Businesses will not have a four-day week imposed on them. Instead, Labour will use a series of smaller measures to work towards a reduction in hours.

A new commission will recommend increases in holiday entitlement to push down average working times. Meanwhile, the really radical element is the introduction of sector-by-sector collective bargaining with unions.

from McD

quote:

So I an tell you today that the next Labour government will reduce the average full time working week to 32 hours within a decade. A shorter working week with no loss of pay. We’ll end the opt-out from the European Working Time Directive. As we roll out sectoral collective bargaining, we’ll include negotiations over working hours. We’ll require working hours to be included in the legally binding sectoral agreements between employers and trade unions. This will allow unions and employers to decide together how best to reduce hours for their sector. And we’ll set up a Working Time Commission with the power to recommend to government on increasing statutory leave entitlements as quickly as possible without increasing unemployment.

EWTD has no direct teeth but it is effective for applying pressure (by forcing measurement of the hours spent; quantification is the first step). And nobody says that anything actually has to listen to any commission white papers, although likewise having a white paper is the first step to having an implementable policy should the time be right at that point

Sectoral collective bargaining (i.e. Germany-style) is, as the graun notes, the really radical change. It is not the policy lede because it doesn't sound very sexy though, and it has harsh implications for the adversarial wildcat-flavoured stuff that still captures lefty imaginations

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Comrade Fakename posted:

If by “we” you mean Momentum, then it’s actually me who’s running the investigation. And the stuff in this thread about Best for Britain is better than most of the stuff we’ve got so far (I don’t want to slag anyone off, everyone’s volunteering and trying their best). So if anyone wants to summarise what’s found in this thread (I don’t understand what the code stuff is about), I’ll make sure it goes to the right people.

Don't make me stairs you in Slack ;)

VideoGames
Aug 18, 2003
If mps only sit in parliament for four days a week surely I and everyone else can do the same.

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Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

VideoGames posted:

If mps only sit in parliament for four days a week surely I and everyone else can do the same.

That's what I said but I got tackled as I tried to enter the commons

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