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theflyingorc posted:This is a false dilemma. Wait him out or something. Or do nothing, he was a shoplifter. Yeah I feel like just waiting for his meth high to peter out would probably have worked just fine.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:27
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:I'm relatively certain if hundreds of photos of a male politician in sexual poses with their staffers were taken and released, they'd also be forced to resign. How does the existence of the photos make it worse unless those photos were a part of some blackmail scheme by Hill, which, to my knowledge, has not been alleged. Meanwhile: https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/1188848130613239809?s=09 I used Duncan Hunter for a specific reason. There are several current politicians we know of that are guilty of things comparable and/or worse! that have not been forced to resign. And not all of them are even Republicans. Again, I'm actually on the her resigning is good train. But it is only good if we keep sharp focus on how gendered and homophobic this particular story is.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:28
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ewiley posted:Well if the house had a gun this wouldn't be a problem So if they had bombed the house (and destroyed 6 nearby homes) but didn't kill anyone that would have been OK?
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Oct 31, 2019 20:29
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:That's not quite the whole story, though: it sounds like his testimony is coached in a lot of "I didn't think there was anything wrong" and "I don't recall [bad thing]" which is very much what you say when you are trying to (1) cover your rear end without (2) incriminating yourself because (3) you do think you did something wrong\ meanwhile, DOJ is arguing in DC federal court that the House has no right to enforce subpoenas ever https://twitter.com/hsu_spencer/status/1189987690038644738 they're going to lose hilariously badly on this one just like they lost in front of Beryl Howell the other week
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Oct 31, 2019 20:29
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AhhYes posted:https://twitter.com/ArdenFarhi/status/1189948192986714118?s=20 Didn't this guy resign his position yesterday? This seems like an... odd path.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:29
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ewiley posted:I dunno, it seems to be an interesting discussion, I've learned something and actually changed my mind about it, honestly. However I don't think the cops were entirely in the wrong since they could have just murdered the guy and literally gotten away with it like they do time after time, but instead committed a bunch of property destruction instead and he came out alive. You guys valuing property higher than human life is a little gross. The initial chase should have never happened and your accusing posters engaged with you of valuing property over life is loving gross. gently caress off.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:29
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Prester Jane posted:The argument for supporting Mansion was that he would occasionally do the right thing, but if he cannot be counted on to vote against the fascist monster that is literally up ending our entire Society, then he cannot be counted on for anything and should never have been supported at all. Huh? He absolutely cannot be counted on, he's just more likely to do the right thing than a Republican, and a better candidate who can win in West Virginia doesn't exist to my knowledge. The argument is not "Manchin will do the right thing".
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Oct 31, 2019 20:29
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Prester Jane posted:That's the centrist position, yes. "We always have to go with the lesser evil and support leadership figures who sell out the venerable because better things aren't possible." Find a Democrat in West Virginia that can beat him and support them. The first half of that sentence is going to be the hard part, unfortunately. I'd love to support someone to the left of Doug Jones in a primary, but that person currently doesn't exist, so it's hard for me to vote for them. Sometimes you have bad options. I wish it weren't so.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:30
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ewiley posted:e: I've acknowledged that the town should have made the homeowner whole and $5k wasn't it, so I'm not even sure what we're arguing about. fair enough I didn't see where you did that, but also ewiley posted:I dunno, it seems to be an interesting discussion, I've learned something and actually changed my mind about it, honestly. However I don't think the cops were entirely in the wrong since they could have just murdered the guy and literally gotten away with it like they do time after time, but instead committed a bunch of property destruction instead and he came out alive. You guys valuing property higher than human life is a little gross. wtf do you really think anyone is saying they should have murdered the guy
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Oct 31, 2019 20:30
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https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/1189985309162921985?s=20
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Oct 31, 2019 20:31
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In my ideal world, only people that live in West Virginia would be allowed to participate in Manchin arguments.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:31
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What's the symbolism here?
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Oct 31, 2019 20:33
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theflyingorc posted:Huh? He absolutely cannot be counted on, he's just more likely to do the right thing than a Republican, and a better candidate who can win in West Virginia doesn't exist to my knowledge. The argument is not "Manchin will do the right thing". Then you're selling out your ideals to support a leadership figure based on tossing the dice that he'll do the right thing, from a position where you're never going to be negatively impacted when he inevitably never does the right thing- only vulnerable people will suffer the consequences for your hubris. If there was no better candidates in West Virginia than the solution is to build a robust Democratic party in West Virginia and begin searching for a good candidate, not supporting a psychopath out of sheer convenience. Logic like this is how the Democratic party got into its current pathetic state, and it's goddamn well time that people stop going along with the flow here. Leadership matters, leadership is 85% of politics. Demand that leaders be held to high standards and refuse to compromise; or you'll inevitably wind up being controlled by the exact kind of fascist enablers that Democratic Leadership is presently infested with. Anytime a society has fallen to fascism, the "comfortable moderates" always enabled it and used realpolitik arguments to justify their decisions. It was nonsense then, it's nonsense now.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:33
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Party Plane Jones posted:https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1189963261497761794?s=20 I know that AOC tweeted about needing a last minute Holloween costume, and her going as Tomi Lahren would just be 
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Oct 31, 2019 20:34
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Wylie posted:Find a Democrat in West Virginia that can beat him and support them. The first half of that sentence is going to be the hard part, unfortunately. Then the work begins at creating better options instead of taking the easy path and supporting a psychopath because it's more convenient. Things will never improve for the better if you allow selfish psychopaths to take control of the levers of power- end of discussion.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:35
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There Bias Two posted:What's the symbolism here? You'll need the moving boxes because you're going to lose your next election. This is akin to the boosters sending a moving van to a college football coach's house after a big loss, and it's about as dumb.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:35
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There Bias Two posted:What's the symbolism here? You voted to move on with impeachment, you're getting voted out of office next round?
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Oct 31, 2019 20:35
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Flip Yr Wig posted:In my ideal world, only people that live in West Virginia would be allowed to participate in Manchin arguments.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:35
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alpha_destroy posted:None of you telling Hill to gently caress off addressed what she actually said which is that there is a double standard which there obviously is. If she were not a bisexual woman there is no way that she gets pushed out as quickly as she does. We know this because look at Duncan Hunter. You all think congressmen aren't loving their staff? Why is this particular woman taking the fall when it's clear to pretty much everyone that this problem is kind of endemic and when it's a certainty that most of the perpetrators are men? This is the best post on this subject
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Oct 31, 2019 20:36
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Flip Yr Wig posted:In my ideal world, only people that live in West Virginia would be allowed to participate in Manchin arguments. He has a leadership position in a major politucal party- his position I'd one that carries National importance. (The Senate is literally one of the highest possible leadership positions possible in a political party.) His actions impact far more than just West Virginia. Imo this line of reasoning is just an intellectual exercise in finding a reason not to hear arguments that make you feel uncomfortable. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Oct 31, 2019 |
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Oct 31, 2019 20:36
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TulliusCicero posted:I know that AOC tweeted about needing a last minute Holloween costume, and her going as Tomi Lahren would just be No one with a platform should acknowledge Tomi Lahren exists.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:36
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Prester Jane posted:Then the work begins at creating better options instead of taking the easy path and supporting a psychopath because it's more convenient. Things will never improve for the better if you allow selfish psychopaths to take control of the levers of power- end of discussion. I think you vastly overstate the thread's opinion of Manchin. He's terrible, but slightly better than the anthropomorphic MAGA hat that would be in that seat otherwise.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:36
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Prester Jane posted:LOL, look at this cowardly horseshit. Of course he won't be the deciding vote- but whether he's the deciding vote or not is entirely irrelevant to the point I am making here. The fact that he'll support a fascist monster because he views it as being in his own selfish interest demonstrates the privileged stupidity required to carry water for a leader like Manchin. Congratulations! As per the thread rule you are now toxxed for Manchin to vote to acquit! Do not demand other posters toxx!
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Oct 31, 2019 20:37
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Wylie posted:I think you vastly overstate the thread's opinion of Manchin this has been true for literally years at this point and no amount of arguing will ever change it
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Oct 31, 2019 20:37
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I live in a treehouse in a coal mine so my Joe Manchin opinions are unimpeachable
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Oct 31, 2019 20:38
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There Bias Two posted:What's the symbolism here? “Pack your belongings because you’re getting voted out in 2020 because of your actions.” To be fair, it is a nice burn.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:38
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Kammat posted:You voted to move on with impeachment, you're getting voted out of office next round? edit: im an idiot and don't read tweets.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:39
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https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/1189989429341032450 this is gonna be a fun opinion to read (the hearing is in progress and taking kinda a long time, because the DOJ is advancing the stupidest argument known to man and the judge is smartly forcing them to say on the record the insane implications of their position)
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Oct 31, 2019 20:40
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i like the concept of purity testing for my preferred government representatives, but perhaps we shouldn't start in West Virginia
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Oct 31, 2019 20:40
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Wylie posted:I think you vastly overstate the thread's opinion of Manchin. He's terrible, but slightly better than the anthropomorphic MAGA hat that would be in that seat otherwise. No, I'm arguing that there was never any reason to support Manchin, that the realpolitik justifications were always short-sighted nonsense spouted mostly by comfortable posters who conceptualize politics as a game. I'm arguing that this was never a Sophie's Choice, that the actual answer was to begin the work of finding a better candidate and creating the infrastructure necessary to get them into office.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:40
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:She’s really dumb. No, she's really not. Coulter is quite intelligent and a genuinely horrible manipulative person who only believes 5 percent of what she writes. She is the original conserva-grifter polemicist and did it successfully and made millions for many years before Trump made it so easy that anyone could do it. I'm actually surprised that she would make this sort of obvious error.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:42
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oxsnard posted:but perhaps we shouldn't start in West Virginia
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Oct 31, 2019 20:43
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TulliusCicero posted:I know that AOC tweeted about needing a last minute Holloween costume, and her going as Tomi Lahren would just be that would be giving tammye a lot more attention than she deserves
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Oct 31, 2019 20:43
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Prester Jane posted:No, I'm arguing that there was never any reason to support Manchin, that the realpolitik justifications were always short-sighted nonsense spouted mostly by comfortable posters who conceptualize politics as a game. I'm arguing that this was never a Sophie's Choice, that the actual answer was to begin the work of finding a better candidate and creating the infrastructure necessary to get them into office. And in the meantime, leave the seat to literal fascists while you build a state party infrastructure mostly from scratch and change the culture of an entire state to boot so that someone left enough for you can run and win?
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Oct 31, 2019 20:44
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actually, any effort at all expended in WV to nominate a true leftist is probably a complete waste at this point. Effort/money should be directed towards nominating more AOCs in districts where it makes sense and pinching our noses to vote for Manchins instead of actual Nazis
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Oct 31, 2019 20:44
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Wylie posted:You'll need the moving boxes because you're going to lose your next election. To expand on this, it would be like boosters from Maryland sending a moving truck to the Michigan head coach's house, despite being 3 TD underdogs this weekend. To actually believe the Dems are going to pay a political price for impeachment is just a new level of delusional that is hard to believe.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:45
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alpha_destroy posted:How does the existence of the photos make it worse unless those photos were a part of some blackmail scheme by Hill, which, to my knowledge, has not been alleged. Uhh the fact they are unassailable evidence of not just the inappropriate relationship, but the magnitude of said relationship?
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Oct 31, 2019 20:45
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oxsnard posted:i like the concept of purity testing for my preferred government representatives, but perhaps we shouldn't start in West Virginia Holding leadership figures up to some kind of standard is not a "purity test", it's the most basic fundamental act of the body politic policing it's political organs that there can possibly be. If you're unwilling to hold your leadership to any kind of Standards then it's inevitable that you'll be controlled by Psychopaths. This is how the human race works now and has always worked, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. It's never the right choice to support a selfish psychopath in a leadership position no matter how convenient it is or how hard replacing them may be. It's always the wrong choice, every time.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:45
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Flip Yr Wig posted:In my ideal world, only people that live in West Virginia would be allowed to participate in Manchin arguments. There's are like maybe four WV goons in D&D / CSPAM. Hell, I'm willing to bet most people don't even know it's a different state from Virginia.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:46
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Prester Jane posted:He has a leadership position in a national party that carries National importance, the Senate is literally one of the highest possible leadership positions possible in a political party. His actions impact far more than just West Virginia. I'm not uncomfortable with the idea that Manchin sucks rear end, but I don't see what the options are for people who aren't in West Virginia. He's the last remnant of the pre-Southern Shift Democratic party and represents the whitest non-New England state in the country. They like him there. It's a quirk of party history that puts someone who in any other state would be a Republican in the Democratic Senate caucus. There may well be someone more progressive in the state that could primary him, so let me know when s/he comes around. In the meanwhile, I think it's more productive to focus on Feinstein or other lovely blue state Senators who are significantly out of step with their constituents.
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Oct 31, 2019 20:46
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