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from an interview with Jason about getting voted out: There was a lot of whispering going on at Tribal Council after Elaine revealed she was blocking your vote. At one point. Tommy and Dan came over and were whispering to you even though you had no vote to cast. What were they saying? Well, the actual plan that we had in place was a very complicated plan before we went to Tribal Council. So when the swap happened, Missy and Aaron immediately wanted to flip and threw Elaine’s name out there and threw Elaine under the bus. So she was our first target. And then ultimately was our last target. But in between, our targets were actually Missy and Aaron. So going into the Tribal Council, the plan was to put four of the old Vokai votes on Aaron hoping that Aaron or Missy would flip, and send Aaron home. So what happened was when Elaine pulled out the block a vote, it signaled to us that, “Okay, they have something, we’re gonna need four true votes. Jason doesn’t have a vote.” So our best plan at that point was to basically gather ourselves, put the votes on Elaine, and then hope Aaron actually was flipping on Elaine. So what they said to me is, “It’s going to be Elaine, it’s going to be Elaine, it’s going to be a Elaine.” And because before that it was not going to be Elaine walking into the Tribal Council and for the days leading up to the Tribal Council either.
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Oct 31, 2019 18:44
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| # ? May 23, 2024 10:34 |
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I didn't see this part when I posted, this is even better stuff: Tell me how you all came to the decision to make Noura sit out of the blindfolded challenge after promising her she could have the role of caller, and how she took that decision. First of all, I’m so happy you asked this question because we haven’t had any eliminations from the original Vokai tribe [since then] so people that have not really seen that much of what was going on there. Noura comes back from Island of the Idols and let me just tell you, I love Noura. Clearly, she loves me! But her execution of whatever she was trying to do was 20 times worse than even what you saw on television. So before we even get to her story with how she has to be a certain position, she actually came back with a fake idol as well. As you saw, Dan likes to snoop through people’s things, and he found a fake idol that Noura came back from all Island of the Idols with. This was a legitimate fake idol that she made there. And we have no idea, no reason why. So on top of all of this, she came back with this kooky fake idol and then admitted it was fake! Just total, total craziness, like bizarre. So going back to the caller position, we’re sitting there and it’s the Noura show and a lot of times out there it is the Noura show and that’s why it was fun to keep her around. It was extremely entertaining. And she just gets up there and we’re like, “What are you talking about?” And then once she told us what the actual challenge was, we’re all like, “There’s no way. Somebody’s going to be sent home because she wants to get an advantage in the game.” Specifically, me and Jamal were really against her being the caller outwardly right away. So we said, “Okay, let’s give her a chance to be the caller.” So we gave her a chance. You saw what happened. Dan stubbed his toe. I’m sure he’s probably still nursing it at this point. And she’s not giving any instruction. She’s all over the place. And I said, okay, “Watch me do it one time. Maybe this is how you should be doing it.” And I did it one time and obviously it went very well — or a lot better than with Noura. And so we put Noura in a role as a blindfolded person and we were practicing and I was directing her on where to go, but she wouldn’t listen to me! She was, like, purposely try to screw things up for me. Or maybe she wasn’t doing it on purpose. I don’t know. But she would not listen. So when we took a break from practicing, we came together and I said to everyone, “I think she is going to try to sabotage this entire thing. We got to sit her down.” And that conversation was between probably me, Dan, Lauren and Jamal. And we just said, we got to sit her out. And nobody really wanted to deliver the news, and you kinda see when Jeff asked us who was sitting out, we kind of all looked around because we knew that we wanted it to be Noura. And Lauren stepped up, turned around and said, “Noura, it’s you. “And immediately in my mind I’m like, Oh my gosh!!!
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Oct 31, 2019 18:48
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Binary Logic posted:Rob told Elaine about the task "you must secretly grab it (the advantage)", but she told Elizabeth about it before the challenge and should have been DQ'ed from using it. Even if she told everyone it wouldn't/shouldn't DQ her. Secretly grabbing something is different than keeping the concept of the challenge itself secret. The Noura stuff we didn't see is hilarious, I wish we got to see her fake idol haha.
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Oct 31, 2019 19:30
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Khanstant posted:I wish we got to see her fake idol haha. 
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Oct 31, 2019 19:46
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Jesus Christ Lauren saying mean poo poo about Elaine. Totally able to hold it together in tribal until the wind changes direction on her and she breaks down immediately. Can I change my poison?
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Nov 1, 2019 03:00
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This season is full of dumb overthinkers
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Nov 1, 2019 03:17
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Zesty posted:Jesus Christ Lauren saying mean poo poo about Elaine. Totally able to hold it together in tribal until the wind changes direction on her and she breaks down immediately. glad i went with my gut on that one
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Nov 1, 2019 05:05
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The Bloop posted:from an interview with Jason about getting voted out: Huh. I mean, there's some logic to it: knock out an untrustworthy Lairo in a way that maximizes their in-group dissent AND protects against the very real possibility that Elaine has a new idol. It actually has some merit on paper, but yeah if Vokai's mid-TC incoherent scramble caused Aaron to change his vote, then their bold move obviously backfired. I think at this point in Survivor lore, where players are aware of the broad range of possible advantages that might come from an Island of the Idols/Ghost Island/Exile Island etc. type of place, the Vokai should've had a contingency plan in place to mitigate the effects of what was really a fairly unsurprising turn of events. Like it would've been an easy fix: "if an advantage shifts the vote away from a tie, we go back to plan B and not make a fuss about it during TC". (Edited to change language to something more general) Vernacular fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Nov 1, 2019 |
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Nov 1, 2019 11:00
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The vote block has only appeared once before and the vote steal only twice, so it's not surprising that it might not have occurred to them.
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Nov 1, 2019 11:41
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Ok fair enough yeah, edited my post accordingly. Nonetheless, extra vote, vote block, vote steal...it’s the same basic threat: less votes for us, more votes for them. They’re usually not reinventing the wheel with this stuff. The point is that a few lines of dialogue could’ve helped inform everybody of what to do in this not entirely surprising situation so that they didn’t have to panic at TC in ways that might have affected the vote.
Vernacular fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Nov 3, 2019 |
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Nov 1, 2019 13:52
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Eh I'm not sure they're all quite the same thing. A Vote Block seems like it would be useful far less often than an Extra Vote or especially a Steal a Vote. Like I wouldn't be surprised if some people think that Steal a Vote is just flatout overpowered. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Nov 1, 2019 |
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Nov 1, 2019 14:06
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Raxivace posted:Eh I'm not sure they're all quite the same thing. A Vote Block seems like it would be useful far less often than an Extra Vote or especially a Steal a Vote. Steal a vote is a double advantage because it has a two vote swing. It's like someone playing two idols or using two other advantages. As long as the producers realize that it isn't inherently overpowered, but it's tough to balance. I like the idea of risking things for advantages this season. I mean you always risked in a social way - there have been 'advantages' that were functionally worse than nothing many times - but the actual mechanical disadvantage is pretty good.
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Nov 1, 2019 14:46
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Vernacular posted:I think at this point in Survivor lore, where players are aware of the broad range of possible advantages that might come from an Island of the Idols/Ghost Island/Exile Island etc. type of place, the Vokai should've had a contingency plan in place to mitigate the effects of what was really a fairly unsurprising turn of events. Like it would've been an easy fix: "if an advantage shifts the vote away from a tie, we go back to plan B and not make a fuss about it during TC". ApplesandOranges posted:The vote block has only appeared once before and the vote steal only twice, so it's not surprising that it might not have occurred to them. That said, vote blocks or vote steals are out there these days, and extra votes are passed out like candy. Any of those things would break the tie and one of those being in the game really shouldn't be that shocking. They could have had a contingency for that. I do understand their thinking in shifting the target to Aaron but it was risky as well, but even if it had worked, they'd have been voting out a potential ally... maybe nobody was really that warm on him.
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Nov 1, 2019 21:39
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Two of their four opponents had been to "Island of the Idols" so there was a pretty decent chance this wasn't going to be a vanilla 4-4 vote. Having no contingency plans was pretty dumb
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Nov 1, 2019 21:43
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Ya it's been enough seasons now that you should prepare for something of the sort especially if htey just got back from Gimmick Island. Whereas say Dan getting screwed by the Idol Nullifier in David vs. Goliath I don't really blame him for because who the gently caress could have predicted that.
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Nov 1, 2019 22:07
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Yeah, I think Jason and Co were just playing cocky and overcomplicated. No, you can't predict a specific advantage that might kill you in a weird way, but you can anticipate that someone might throw a curve your way so its best to keep things as simple as possible with a simple backup plan. I just think the vote split and tribe dominance gave them a whole tone of unearned confidence and we saw how quickly and hard they crashed back down to Earth.
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Nov 1, 2019 22:25
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To a certain extent, not accommodating for risk factors makes it easier to feel psychologically secure in the game, even if that security is not the reality. That's how we got such awesome tears at tribal this week. Tasty, tasty tears.
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Nov 1, 2019 22:35
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The Bloop posted:Two of their four opponents had been to "Island of the Idols" so there was a pretty decent chance this wasn't going to be a vanilla 4-4 vote. Having no contingency plans was pretty dumb Contingency plans can get out of hand really quickly. I played a non-SA game where everybody started with an idol, which they could trade day 1 or a raffle ticket to get a super idol (think Yul). That led to way too many Skype calls that went on for way too long because planning for contingencies like that is a surefire way to gently caress your brain. I can't imagine there isn't unaired footage of everybody freaking out about everybody who went to go see Sandra and Rob having idols, but I think that's the only reasonable thing you can plan for. When you get more complicated advantages like vote blocks in the mix, you're just going to lose it trying to go through every possibility and how to plan against all of them all at once. Sucks to be Jason, but I'm not mad at his gameplay.
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Nov 1, 2019 22:42
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Honestly what was really, really there most dumb is how butthurt they all were. Hatch still has the best Survivor outlook moment with "I've been bamboozled!" poo poo didn't go your way. At tribal. In survivor. loving suck it up, buttercup.
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Nov 1, 2019 22:48
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What really boggles my mind is that, contingency plan or not, I do not understand why you would walk into a 4-4 vote so openly smug and confident. Even if you're super sure someone is going to flip in your favor, you still look like assholes and at a bare minimum you're openly telegraphing to your flip vote that you're still a super tight foursome they're not really a part of.
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Nov 1, 2019 22:50
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Yeah, I'm probably naturally gonna be harder on Jason for all that "I thought we were friends" and "I don't think Elaine is smart enough to get one over on us" and all the tears.
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Nov 1, 2019 23:13
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they thought it was a 6-2 vote going in also it's island of the idols not island of the vote blocks!!!!!!!!
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Nov 1, 2019 23:19
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yeah they thought the vote was gonna be, like, 4-2-2, of course they were confident
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Nov 2, 2019 00:09
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The Bloop posted:Honestly what was really, really there most dumb is how butthurt they all were. I don't know, I'd be mad if s gimmick I had no idea existed was the reason I went home. I'd still understand it's Survivor, but it wouldn't be a happy feeling.
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Nov 2, 2019 00:15
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Poor guys, having their deeply earned random tribe swap dynamics advantage getting ruined by a random power possessed by someone they knew had gone to a place named after powers but who they dismissed as too stupid to beat them.
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Nov 2, 2019 01:24
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They didn't have any advantage. The swap tribe was 4-4. There's the potential flippers and all but the editors get their choice of like 15 strategies any given player floats on any given day.
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Nov 2, 2019 01:33
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They got a good break that they had two tribe members from the other side who were sketchy and primed to flip. I'm not saying anything was unfair or stacked or anything, I'm just saying its not like Jason or the group had some masterful game move that got upended by a completely random surprise power. They just got cocky about the likelihood of those other four splitting votes and dismissed that they'd be smart enough to play them. Yeah, there's certainly a lot else that happened that we don't see but we did see that. And then they cried about it. edit: I listened to Jason's exit interview. I don't feel like it changes much. They key is still that they were counting on the other four to split their votes and betray each other and came up with schemes around that. Maybe nothing changes if they aren't as cocky but I don't know. I feel like if they had loss certainty they might have played up how sketchy Aaron and Missy were and try and drive those divides. But I definitely just don't like the guy so I might not be totally objective. I have to get back in the habit of Know It Alls now that October baseball/Halloween is done. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Nov 2, 2019 |
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Nov 2, 2019 01:40
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Bigass Moth posted:I don't know, I'd be mad if s gimmick I had no idea existed was the reason I went home. I'd still understand it's Survivor, but it wouldn't be a happy feeling. As far as them acting cocky and overconfident though, that’s part of the game plan when you’re going into a potential rocks situation. If they know you won’t flip, then they know they’ll have to if they want to avoid rocks. And they did do a good job having a unified tribe, and the other side did a really bad job at that.
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Nov 2, 2019 03:13
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I mean, I don't think it was the "we're not going to rocks/vote with us" stuff that people reacted to. It was the "Elaine isn't smart enough/I thought we were friends" stuff. I'd argue that yes, they should exude confidence and they did, but that the evidence we got showed that it was largely because they were genuinely cocky about the vote.
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Nov 2, 2019 03:30
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The four Vokais were pointlessly cocky but exactly what sort of contingency plan did people want them to have for a Block-a-Vote? The only thing you can do at that point is try to turn the four Lairo against each other which is exactly what they tried to do and almost succeeded at. I guess they could have tried to throw Aaron under the bus to Elaine right before the vote, but then you’re just trading a “rely on Aaron to flip” plan for a “rely on Elaine to flip” plan which isn’t better in any obvious way. By the way, I rant about this every season but I’m due to rant again: basically every advantage except for idols really hurt the game (and the show). A block/extra vote is useless 90% of the time until its suddenly not and then there’s basically nothing you can do to stop it (especially when you don’t even know for sure it’s in the game). If your opponent has an idol you can outsmart then by switching targets or luring then into a false sense of security, but if your opponent has one of these dumb situational advantages at exactly the right moment then oh well! People are acting like the Vokais plan was unreasonably complicated and didn’t allow for anything to go wrong when it was really the simplest possible plan to cover the only coverable power (Lairo having an idol). If Aaron flips, they survive by 4-3-1. If Aaron doesn’t flip but the Lairos have an idol, the Lairos waste the idol on the fake vote-out- Elaine plan that Aaron leaks. They guarantee they at least get to a tie, and can then hope their tough guy act results in someone flipping right before the rock draw. And by all accounts the plan would have worked (without the advantage coming into play) unless we think Missy/Aaron’s repeated confessionals about refusing to draw rocks were from a different point in the game or something.
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Nov 2, 2019 04:36
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The only thing they could have really done differently, I think, is expose Aaron (and Missy?) as sketchy and try and drive those divides further. Maybe tell Elaine and Elizabeth (and Missy?) how gung ho Aaron was to betray them and see if you can get everyone on board sending him home or hope they vote for him while you take out one of them or something? But that probably could have backfired on them even without an advantage so its iffy at best. Although I guess the main argument I've heard/read is that all the whispering scrambling chaos might have spooked Aaron into changing his vote. So if they had just had a simplified plan and didn't panic maybe he would have flipped? But that seems like a complete unknown until Aaron gets out and tells us something. I don't think the issue is that they "misplayed." They just got beat by a power, and still could have survived that if Aaron had chosen differently. I just don't like them because they were cocky assholes and thus I enjoyed their fall. edit: Actually I guess I do fundamentally think being "cocky" is always bad gameplay for a lot of reasons. But mostly for me this situation is just about schadenfreude. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Nov 2, 2019 |
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Nov 2, 2019 04:42
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Lone Goat posted:also it's island of the idols not island of the vote blocks!!!!!!!! Even an idol is something that could've been played/flaunted with a similar effect It's just hard to defend the lack of adaptability/preparedness in the era of superfans who should probably know better than to not plan for potential outcomes beyond their highly fragile plan coming to fruition and going to rocks Their lack of battle-testedness likely played a role, as others have alluded to Vernacular fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Nov 2, 2019 |
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Nov 2, 2019 04:52
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First good episode Tommy's control freak side got exposed
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Nov 2, 2019 11:44
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I'll readily admit that if both groups stayed strong 4 to rocks, there was nothing they could do about this advantage. They didn't have to be babies about it though. I also agree that these types of advantages are bad for the game from a mechanical balance perspective. That's not the primary concern of producers, though. Ratings are. I'm sure they focus group and data mine the gently caress out of things and I'm equally sure that the average viewer isn't game theorizing and doesn't notice/care about minor imbalances. Survivor is inherently imbalanced anyway.
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Nov 2, 2019 12:57
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STAC Goat posted:Although I guess the main argument I've heard/read is that all the whispering scrambling chaos might have spooked Aaron into changing his vote. So if they had just had a simplified plan and didn't panic maybe he would have flipped? But that seems like a complete unknown until Aaron gets out and tells us something. I figure it’s more likely he already had his mind made up, but that situation seems at least possible, and I feel like at some point they have to have discussed the possibility of one of the ioi people potentially having an extra vote. Also, I don’t like all the extra advantages either, but then this being the best ep so far probably encourages the producers on this kind of thing, and I bet they don’t notice all the good stuff that DOESN’T happen because of the twists.
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Nov 2, 2019 13:56
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STAC Goat posted:Although I guess the main argument I've heard/read is that all the whispering scrambling chaos might have spooked Aaron into changing his vote. So if they had just had a simplified plan and didn't panic maybe he would have flipped? But that seems like a complete unknown until Aaron gets out and tells us something. While this might have had some effect it would require knowledge of exactly what advantage Lairo has. If they simplify it to a 5-3 "vote Elaine" plan and Aaron is playing them and leaks the plan to Lairo who has an idol, then they just play the idol and the vote is 0-3. And they're assumption should probably be to cover the idol over an extra vote since idols are much more common and Elaine just got back from a literal Island of Idols. The Bloop posted:I also agree that these types of advantages are bad for the game from a mechanical balance perspective. That's not the primary concern of producers, though. Ratings are. I'm sure they focus group and data mine the gently caress out of things and I'm equally sure that the average viewer isn't game theorizing and doesn't notice/care about minor imbalances. Survivor is inherently imbalanced anyway. I think you're giving too much credit to the producers assuming they are focus grouping these decisions, but even if they are they're trading something that is very occasionally exciting for one episode for a bunch of long-term effects that are bad for the show. The advantages contribute to the general feeling that the show is hard to follow and big things just randomly happen, which is a common complaint about the modern seasons from both the hardcore base and the casual fans. The show keeps the audience engaged by asking them to "play along" and have some Monday Morning Quarterback decision about what they would do in that situation but when the answer becomes "shrug!" you start to lose the audience over time. The producers clearly know this on some level because the tension of the last act was built around Aaron's informed decision knowing about the advantage (Shannon Gaitz from RHAP said it better than I can): https://twitter.com/ShannonGaitz/status/1189880218598592514 The issue is that while they salvaged some tension there it felt kind of artificial because once Aaron knew about the advantage it didn't really make much sense for him to flip anymore. The advantages also generally encourage more conservative gameplay from the majority alliance, and also this: Fast Luck posted:Also, I don’t like all the extra advantages either, but then this being the best ep so far probably encourages the producers on this kind of thing, and I bet they don’t notice all the good stuff that DOESN’T happen because of the twists. Especially since we now know that without the advantage then we probably would have got Aaron effectively voting himself out due to his fear of rocks (a great storyline that I don't think has ever happened before!) or a rock draw (never happened in the pre-merge before!).
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Nov 2, 2019 16:14
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Elaine might be the most overall charming contestant they’ve ever had. I genuinely like everything about her.
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Nov 2, 2019 19:24
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RIP Rudy Boesch https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/rudy-boesch-dead-at-91-oldest-survivor-competitor-dies/
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Nov 2, 2019 20:30
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sportsgenius86 posted:RIP Rudy Boesch Rest in peace, Rudy. I'm sure he had a lot to do with my grandfather getting interested in this show that we've watched for almost two decades now, as he liked seeing a peer in with all the kids. Rudy was the only contestant he remembered when we rewatched season 1 on DVD last year.
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Nov 2, 2019 21:12
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| # ? May 23, 2024 10:34 |
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mancalamania posted:While this might have had some effect it would require knowledge of exactly what advantage Lairo has. If they simplify it to a 5-3 "vote Elaine" plan and Aaron is playing them and leaks the plan to Lairo who has an idol, then they just play the idol and the vote is 0-3. And they're assumption should probably be to cover the idol over an extra vote since idols are much more common and Elaine just got back from a literal Island of Idols. But of course that falls into the "edit" hole where we have no idea how much Vokai did or didn't press Missy and Elizabeth and if they showed any willingness. And again, we have no idea how Aaron came to his decision, if Elaine's move and Vokai's scrambling affected it, or if he had made up his mind before hand. So who knows? Like I said, while I think their plan might have been too clever and complicated ultimately I'm less criticizing their gameplay as I am laughing at their cockiness and bitterness. Edit: Also, I'm currently eating Applebees, but I swear it wasn't my choice. Food's bland. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Nov 2, 2019 |
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Nov 2, 2019 23:31
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