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gh0stpinballa posted:the objective reality of corbyn as a compromise candidate between the left and the middle... huh what's this committee of the left that has grudgingly lowered themselves into accepting Corbyn as a compromise candidate the power flows entirely the other way - Corbyn's group gets to decide exactly how left the party is and not an inch further. The attempts to keep Momentum, founded as an explicitly Corbyn campaign group vehicle, separate from Labour as a party all failed. The attempt to wrest Momentum from Lansman failed. Momentum, not the CLPD or some older group, decides how members will vote for motions to fail or succeed at Conference. Insofar as there are power struggles, it's exclusively between people who are Corbyn loyalists at this point. People who try to play the leftier-than-thou card a la Chris Williamson get what he got. there is no-one further left who is relevant. This is not Tony Benn operating in an era where the left control city councils across England and with a horde of influential MPs with experience in cabinet and backed up by loyal CLPs. Corbyn is the remaining representative of the left. Beyond him, there's just leafletting irrelevantly in the rain if the show is to keep going, those who fancy themselves inheritors of the left mantle are going to have to get used to defining radicalism downwards
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Nov 2, 2019 19:48
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I mean, the answer to "what are these people supposed to do" is simple. They're supposed to die.
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Nov 2, 2019 19:48
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Guavanaut posted:There's also a certain type of person who is pathologically terrified that someone somewhere is getting away with something (see also benefits). Was it on here or somewhere else that someone pointed out that much of right wing politics is in fact 'the politics of envy' contrary to the popularly held belief that lefties are congenitally envious? (Either that or champagne socialists - no inbetween position).
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Nov 2, 2019 19:49
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Banging joke for the top of the page ronya
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Nov 2, 2019 19:50
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What is it with classical music written for serious imposing events being reused for silliness.
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Nov 2, 2019 19:53
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If you were working all day in the ham mines for a pittance without being told how socialism works or the reality of austerity, I can understand how some people's pork gets a bit salty when they see people not working the ham mines and getting a house that's just like the barely legal shed they rent.
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Nov 2, 2019 19:53
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I agree with all the Lib Dems who are saying the top three Westminster party leaders should have a debate on tv.
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Nov 2, 2019 19:54
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marktheando posted:I agree with all the Lib Dems who are saying the top three Westminster party leaders should have a debate on tv. SNP leader or SNP Westminster leader?
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Nov 2, 2019 19:55
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marktheando posted:I agree with all the Lib Dems who are saying the top three Westminster party leaders should have a debate on tv. #DebateBlackford
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Nov 2, 2019 19:55
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that would give a revoke A50 position a credible voice on the stage...
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Nov 2, 2019 19:58
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Spent the afternoon helping chip branches to lay new paths in our community woodland, and by the end of it the half dozen people helping were so sick of me they all registered to vote just to shut me up. The message of “forget brexit, how many people do you know having a poo poo time on universal credit?” really seems to be working. Five of the six say they’ve never voted before in their lives. One is a sovereign citizen who overcame his worry of “voting is another form of legal name fraud inflicted on us by false authorities” when I said if he thinks it’s entirely bullshit, just do it anyway as a favour to me and his friends. Also one of the branches got stuck in the chipper and hit me really loving hard on top of the head as it jerked about. Worth it to get six more votes.
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Nov 2, 2019 20:00
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Blackford, I’d spare Nicola debate time with bojo. OK I’ll be generous and make it the top four party leaders (I’m counting the independents as the fourth party)
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Nov 2, 2019 20:02
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ronya posted:huh As a bit of advice, you might want to be a bit more circumspect in telling a thread full of Labour members what is actually happening in the Labour party... There is definitely a situation where a good chunk of the membership is getting increasingly annoyed with Corbyn for being overly compromising on things, particularly with the PLP. essentially there seems to be a good cop, bad cop dynamic with Corbyn and McDonnell respectively towards the parliamentary party - it shouldn't be a surprise that McDonnell is omnipresent at The World Transformed and seemingly more popular among engaged party members. It should also be noted that the right are in an absolute tailspin right now and have by and large ditched the party in huge numbers (both MPs and members). Momentum had a 100% pass rate at conference and the heights of right wing success are "not having their MPs deselected". A lot of the candidates replacing leaving MPs are left wing as well which is likely going to change the makeup of the PLP quite a bit. It might not be a situation where Tony Benn has a cadre of left wing councils to call on but there absolutely is a left beyond Corbyn and Momentum. It's not lost on the wider membership that Momentum currently is basically an extension on the leader's office (thought they still butt heads - see Lansman's failed attempt to ditch Tom Watson), just at the minute the situation hasn't really warranted an alternative cropping up. I don't imagine that will be the situation forever.
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Nov 2, 2019 20:04
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marktheando posted:Blackford, I’d spare Nicola debate time with bojo.
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Nov 2, 2019 20:06
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ronya posted:if the show is to keep going, those who fancy themselves inheritors of the left mantle are going to have to get used to defining radicalism downwards Only depending on their affiliation to Labour, every leftist needs to acknowledge the limits of Labour and be willing to criticise and be willing to consider breaking from Labour over a critical issue. This is were revolutionary socialist groups and radical grassroots campaign groups position themselves when the limits of reformist socialism become apparent and the importance of that failure too much for leftists to bear.
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Nov 2, 2019 20:06
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justcola posted:Is there a USPol explainer anywhere? Not that I've seen, lately. The latest is the stuff about the Democrats investigating Trumps Quid Pro Quo call and hoping to impeach him. The Republicans are driving themselves into a frenzy with weaker and weaker defenses of Trumps call and even weaker attacks about the process. Also The Fraternal Order of Police (FOP) has chimed in to support Trump, which is ahh... Well, it's something. It's quite a name for the largest union of fascists.
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Nov 2, 2019 20:07
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marktheando posted:Blackford, I’d spare Nicola debate time with bojo. Sturgeon would at least bypass the argument that it's because of sexism
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Nov 2, 2019 20:08
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OwlFancier posted:What is it with classical music written for serious imposing events being reused for silliness. See, for example, the Liberty Bell March, or how Kylie's Your Disco Needs You is only a slight tempo change and a modulation from something straight out of Wagner. (Also incredibly straight-laced booj white dude poo poo is often very silly and just lacks the mirror to see that.) namesake posted:Only depending on their affiliation to Labour, every leftist needs to acknowledge the limits of Labour and be willing to criticise and be willing to consider breaking from Labour over a critical issue.
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Nov 2, 2019 20:14
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The other obvious one is the can can. Which incidentally does work very well for a cavalry charge, still, it just makes it a slightly silly one.
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Nov 2, 2019 20:15
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Very proud of all the UKMT goons who have taken the decision to  , may this trend long continue
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Nov 2, 2019 20:15
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Guavanaut posted:Johnson, Corbyn, Blackford, Gapes. Would watch. No I mean the actual independents who aren't affiliated with a party, not the pathetic CUKTIG losers or the so-called Independent Group who aren't even on this list I'm looking at. Not sure if they are still a thing. I think the funniest independent MP for this job, with excellent remainer credentials, would be Mr John Bercow.
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Nov 2, 2019 20:22
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OwlFancier posted:The other obvious one is the can can. Orpheus in the Underworld was a light-hearted political satire, though. Not surprising that the action music was a bit silly.
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Nov 2, 2019 20:27
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Rarity posted:Very proud of all the UKMT goons who have taken the decision to One of my online enby friends left the Lib Dems and is considering switching to Labour over how dogshit the Lib Dems have been with accepting noted homophobe Phillip Lee and forcing local members to campaign for him.
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Nov 2, 2019 20:27
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Fleshwit posted:And for all the differences between the UK, the US and Aus, we do have four major problems in common. The fash, capitalism gone wild, climate change and centrists punching down. The common factor among all these is first past the post, it's a garbage electoral system that worked fine when you had two parties but breaks down with anything more ana makes it virtually impossible to get a new party off the ground In Canada we had 6 major parties running, all under fptp and as a result the equivalent of the lib dems keeps winning cos everyone's terrified of the conservatives and 'strategic votes' Over 30% of people strategically voted last time, it's really depressing
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Nov 2, 2019 20:28
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Rust Martialis posted:Can you tape the freepost envelope to a paving stone or cinder block and send it? You can just write the freepost address on a box, and fill it with whatever you want. I sent back that free copy of The Sun a few years ago via their freepost, along with a couple of blocks of granite. I also did the same a couple of times when UKIP had their freepost address. 
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Nov 2, 2019 20:34
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Swinson doesn't need to appear in the TV debate, it's on brand for the lib Dems to be nowhere in the running and claiming to be winning it
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Nov 2, 2019 20:34
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dear lord in heaven please let jo swindon lose her seat again so we all can see the takes from people who unironically believe that she can be the PM
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Nov 2, 2019 20:40
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Sanford posted:Spent the afternoon helping chip branches to lay new paths in our community woodland, and by the end of it the half dozen people helping were so sick of me they all registered to vote just to shut me up. The message of “forget brexit, how many people do you know having a poo poo time on universal credit?” really seems to be working. Five of the six say they’ve never voted before in their lives. One is a sovereign citizen who overcame his worry of “voting is another form of legal name fraud inflicted on us by false authorities” when I said if he thinks it’s entirely bullshit, just do it anyway as a favour to me and his friends. Excellent work nagging people towards socialism.
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Nov 2, 2019 20:44
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RottenK posted:dear lord in heaven please let jo swindon lose her seat again so we all can see the takes from people who unironically believe that she can be the PM yes this I'm glad you said "lost her seat again" because many people forget she already lost it once already, which is a shame because it was very funny
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Nov 2, 2019 20:48
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Fleshwit posted:And for all the differences between the UK, the US and Aus, we do have four major problems in common. The fash, capitalism gone wild, climate change and centrists punching down. The common factor among all these is first past the post, it's a garbage electoral system that worked fine when you had two parties but breaks down with anything more ana makes it virtually impossible to get a new party off the ground In Canada we had 6 major parties running, all under fptp and as a result the equivalent of the lib dems keeps winning cos everyone's terrified of the conservatives and 'strategic votes' Over 30% of people strategically voted last time, it's really depressing
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Nov 2, 2019 20:50
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Unfortunately if we didn't have FPTP the main alternative party would be UKIP/BXP 
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Nov 2, 2019 20:51
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Sanford posted:Spent the afternoon helping chip branches to lay new paths in our community woodland, Honestly thought for a moment you meant chipshops that were getting involved in local charity work
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Nov 2, 2019 20:52
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Sorry for the double post, have no idea what's going on with the forum.
bessantj fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Nov 2, 2019 |
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Nov 2, 2019 20:55
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OwlFancier posted:Unfortunately if we didn't have FPTP the main alternative party would be UKIP/BXP I don't believe in the 'sunlight the best form of disinfectant' bollocks, but that refers more to endless platforming of poo poo people because it gets a reaction, not having a voting system that means two parties pandering to a handful of seats and so have to be the appropriately right wing and appropriately left wing party. If, for the first time in their lives, the vote of most people in the country mattered, the nature of the party shifted from policy and leadership groups or stuffy old men in dinner clubs to the mass line, would people continue to return Tories and Fash?
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Nov 2, 2019 20:57
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bessantj posted:Sorry for the double post, have no idea what's going on with the forum. It does seem to be making GBS threads the bed right now.
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Nov 2, 2019 20:58
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Cerv posted:the realities of transport infrastructure & availability of space for parking vary across the country so it makes more sense for parking charges to vary in response to that. centrally dictated uniformity for the sake of uniformity is policy designed to look good in a headline first then work backwards to a justification I agree, so it's a good thing that I didn't advocate uniformity for the sake of uniformity in my one sentence shitpost written to highlight the absurdity of a blithe statement that obviously that stuff should be devolved to an extremely local level. A post that moreover contained its own examples of why this is a bad idea. Did you think I was advocating Blair-style centrally dictated technocracy in a response to ronya? 
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Nov 2, 2019 21:00
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Guavanaut posted:Do you think it would be once the first UKIP coalition government attempt turns to poo poo? Honestly, yes? I think the tories are an excellent example of the fact that people can be utterly unserved by their government and still vote for more of it. Which is not to say I dislike the notion of a more representative voting system, but it is to say I would like to introduce one at a point where we're actually poised to see a plurality of leftist positions who could benefit from it, not when the main dissenting voices are the people who don't think the tories are xenophobic enough or that labour are strasserite enough. There's an argument that we would have benefited from a proprtional voting system decades ago, and that we might benefit from one in the future, but at this moment in time I think it would only make things worse. I think, ultimately, that the british public wants horrible governments, because it has been made to want that by the nature of our society and the primary movers in it, and that needs to change before I am comfortable breaking political cohesion because at this moment I think political cohesion is suppressing the right more than the left. Break the press, break the rich, break the geriatric death cult mentality, get more people who see the appeal of a socialist society, then I might feel better about it. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Nov 2, 2019 |
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Nov 2, 2019 21:04
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ronya posted:the power flows entirely the other way - Corbyn's group gets to decide exactly how left the party is and not an inch further. The attempts to keep Momentum, founded as an explicitly Corbyn campaign group vehicle, separate from Labour as a party all failed. The attempt to wrest Momentum from Lansman failed. Momentum, not the CLPD or some older group, decides how members will vote for motions to fail or succeed at Conference. So you're saying a shadowy Jew with no democratic scrutiny is pulling the strings? Good thing you're in the Labour moderates or that would sound anti-Semitic.
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Nov 2, 2019 21:08
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After the damage that Clegg-fever did to my faith in politics I think Jo should go on TV for the amazing shitshow it'll be In 2010 I was young dumb, and full of bad votes
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Nov 2, 2019 21:11
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Ratjaculation posted:After the damage that Clegg-fever did to my faith in politics I think Jo should go on TV for the amazing shitshow it'll be And now you are only full of bat votes.
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Nov 2, 2019 21:12
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