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Jarmak posted:Yes, and while I'm sure they will try it will be even less effective and their ability to do it has been degraded. The voter roll purges have been pretty nasty over the last handful of years.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:33
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Angry_Ed posted:"Hang on I need to check with the propaganda minister to see if he's trying to influence Dear Leader again" Well, it's pretty much axiomatic that whoever is on the glowy fox box, Trump parrots. Though maybe these days he might be hitting the harder stuff at OANN more.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:34
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Tibalt posted:I'm really looking forward to how senators react to "we're shutting down the government until the impeachment ends." One of them should probably point out that shutting down the government does nothing to Congress.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:34
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FizFashizzle posted:One of them should probably point out that shutting down the government does nothing to Congress. Which is why I hope Trump does it.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:35
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FizFashizzle posted:One of them should probably point out that shutting down the government does nothing to Congress. Not the point--it's the millions of people who will be going without paychecks that will be used as a bludgeon, not directly cutting off Congress. Trump is a terrorist/wannabe mobster; he has no issues taking and shooting hostages if he perceives he can get leverage.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:36
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OAquinas posted:Well, it's pretty much axiomatic that whoever is on the glowy fox box, Trump parrots. I almost wonder if Fox News didnt cock suck Trump and push him towards his more terrible impulses if he'd be a moderately less lovely president. Like wasnt there something horrible he was about to back off of one time and then they basically called him a coward and he was all like "Well I can't have Judge Jeanine saying Judge Jeanine stuff about me, better blindside em' and reverse course". I think it was the direct lead in to the shutdown last year but could have been anything
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Nov 4, 2019 19:37
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The hope would be that people blame the Democrats, but I'm guessing people would blame Trump instead because thats what happened last time and its even less of a good look for a president to use it to shut down impeachment than to achieve some policy goal.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:38
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Discussion of policies and records are allowed in this thread. Most we just want to keep campaigning for a particular candidate and discussing polling and primary debates and idiot pundit takes on the horserace in the primary thread. Biden is one of the most business friendly dems and has a terrible record on racial justice. He's also aggressive opposed to healthcare reform, and only even supports obamacare on sufferance.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:38
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ryde posted:The hope would be that people blame the Democrats, but I'm guessing people would blame Trump instead because thats what happened last time and its even less of a good look for a president to use it to shut down impeachment than to achieve some policy goal. If Trump shuts the government down he will voluntarily take credit by literally saying point blank that he’s doing it himself to shut down the illegal witch hunt against him.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:44
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Kale posted:I almost wonder if Fox News didnt cock suck Trump and push him towards his more terrible impulses if he'd be a moderately less lovely president. Like wasnt there something horrible he was about to back off of one time and then they basically called him a coward and he was all like "Well I can't have Judge Jeanine saying Judge Jeanine stuff about me, better blindside em' and reverse course". I think it was the direct lead in to the shutdown last year but could have been anything It was the shutdown for wall funding, and it was Ann Coulter who called him a coward. ryde posted:The hope would be that people blame the Democrats, but I'm guessing people would blame Trump instead because thats what happened last time and its even less of a good look for a president to use it to shut down impeachment than to achieve some policy goal. The public have consistently done a great, great job of identifying the most proximate cause to any shutdown, and they blame them. They forgive too easily, but he doesn't need the reputation hit he'd take from a shutdown while he's being impeached.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:45
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theflyingorc posted:The voter roll purges have been pretty nasty over the last handful of years. Sure but it didn't stop historic turnout in 2018 and that's a well you can only go to so often.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:51
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Jarmak posted:Sure but it didn't stop historic turnout in 2018 and that's a well you can only go to so often. There is no reason to assume that the votes can't simply be changed
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Nov 4, 2019 19:52
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Also Trump doesn’t believe he’s had any consequences from shutting down the government so he will absolutely do it to try and stop the impeachment. Not only will I not be shocked if this happens, I have been fully expecting it to happen since they started the proper inquiry. Trump couldn't engage with Congress in a meaningful way when they were covering up his crimes. There's zero chance he doesn't try to use a shutdown as leverage and almost no chance that he doesn't go through with it. And it's iffy on whether he'll back down when the country is about to start burning like what happened last time.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:53
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Fart Amplifier posted:There is no reason to assume that the votes can't simply be changed
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Nov 4, 2019 19:54
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Have enough boomers died to save America 🇺🇸?
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Nov 4, 2019 19:54
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Fart Amplifier posted:There is no reason to assume that the votes can't simply be changed Well then why even try This is literally the Kurt Eichenwald take the other day of "Trump will suspend elections so it's important to vote blue no matter who" Ate My Balls Redux fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Nov 4, 2019 |
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Nov 4, 2019 19:55
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Decrepus posted:Have enough boomers died to save America 🇺🇸? Are you a bad enough dude to kill the boomers and save America?
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Nov 4, 2019 19:55
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theflyingorc posted:The public have consistently done a great, great job of identifying the most proximate cause to any shutdown, and they blame them. They forgive too easily, but he doesn't need the reputation hit he'd take from a shutdown while he's being impeached. I would hope that it would tip the balance enough that actual removal from office would start seeming like an OK way to break the logjam, but I don't have any faith in the Senate.
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Nov 4, 2019 19:55
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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-loses-appeal-new-york-tax-case-must-hand-over-n1076061NBC News posted:Trump loses appeal in New York tax case, must hand over returns
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Nov 4, 2019 19:59
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ryde posted:I would hope that it would tip the balance enough that actual removal from office would start seeming like an OK way to break the logjam, but I don't have any faith in the Senate. My guess is that the more likely result is that the THREAT of it moving that way would cause Trump to back down. If Trump absolutely refused to back down from a shutdown there is a legitimate chance he'd be removed, but I think he'd find a way out like last time.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:00
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ryde posted:I would hope that it would tip the balance enough that actual removal from office would start seeming like an OK way to break the logjam, but I don't have any faith in the Senate. The Senate will force him to reopen, if only because if this shutdown goes on for much longer than the last one they are going to find themselves personally in real physical danger from angry mobs.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:01
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haveblue posted:The Senate is probably going to pick the economy not utterly imploding over loyalty, if only because if this shutdown goes on for much longer than the last one they are going to find themselves personally in real physical danger from angry mobs. Yeah, a shutdown blowing up the economy would do things like "Guarantee that John Cornyn loses in 2020"
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Nov 4, 2019 20:02
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theflyingorc posted:This is the ultimate :nothingmatters:, if you believe this you shouldn't pay attention to anything at all, because the Republicans will be able to install their million-year-reich at any time. The problems with electronic voting machines are well documented and accepted and attempts to fix it have been stonewalled by Mitch McConnell. I am not sure why this would even be up for debate
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Nov 4, 2019 20:02
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Sub Par posted:The 2nd Circuit upheld the subpoena for Trump's accounting firm to provide his tax records to a New York grand jury. The opinion really obliterates Trump's arguments. He has 10 days to appeal to SCOTUS which he will certainly do. I know I'm probably in the minority here on this question but I think SCOTUS will issue a per curiam decision here quickly upholding the 2nd circuit's ruling or simply deny cert. Here's hoping. I think they will quickly and quietly deny cert, Trump's argument that not even a secret grand jury can have his taxes is pure crazytown nonsense.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:05
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Trump is hosting the World Series champion Washington Nationals today, and is getting a little.....handsy. Also god drat them for stealing my erotic fanfiction. https://twitter.com/_JakeRussell/status/1191428042704470016?s=20
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Nov 4, 2019 20:05
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Y'all there are good reasons to be concerned about the Integrity of our voting system, there's good evidence that the Republican Party successfully stole the 2000 and 2004 elections I am using vulnerabilities and voting machines. And now on top of that the political party that was stealing elections for itself a couple decades ago has been largely compromised by a hostile foreign power looking to sow chaos in any way it can- we shouldn't simply hand wave away these concerns. We need to be realistic about the situation. I will reitterate again my firm belief that the system is not capable of solving problems that were intentionally created in order to benefit the administrators of the system. We need to start thinking in terms of raw people-power instead of thinking of better ways to play a game that is clearly rigged against us.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:05
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Fart Amplifier posted:The problems with electronic voting machines are well documented and accepted and attempts to fix it have been stonewalled by Mitch McConnell. I am not sure why this would even be up for debate 2. Most of them aren't networked even in the worst places Again, we absolutely, positively, should not use electronic voting machines without paper backups that the voter themselves see. It opens up to risk, just not the kind of risk where you can throw a presidential election.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:05
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theflyingorc posted:My guess is that the more likely result is that the THREAT of it moving that way would cause Trump to back down. An override of his veto requires the same number of votes in the Senate. They'll just do that if they have to.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:06
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fool_of_sound posted:Discussion of policies and records are allowed in this thread. Most we just want to keep campaigning for a particular candidate and discussing polling and primary debates and idiot pundit takes on the horserace in the primary thread. Is it ok to discuss polling if only related to Trump or is it best to just sequester all of it in the primary thread?
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Nov 4, 2019 20:07
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Rigel posted:An override of his veto requires the same number of votes in the Senate. They'll just do that if they have to. Openly rebelling against him like that would be dropping the mask that he's a great leader, and that would almost (but not quite!) guarantee that enough would then vote for removal.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:08
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rkajdi posted:First off, you're comparing organized groups with the stochastic terrorism that seems to be the current issue. The government is really poor at stopping conspiracies of one. We saw the same thing with Hinckley's assassination attempt on Reagan-- our secret service does a poor job at stopping a conspiracy when only one of the people is real. I don't even know how to stop these attacks ahead of time except for strict gun control to keep some rando from being able to enforce his will on society at large. I'm all for that level of gun control (total confiscation from the general public), but good luck getting it done. Truly random terrorism is difficult to stop. However, terrorism that's inspired by violent ideologies and groups can be massively reduced by suppressing those ideologies and cracking down on the groups that spread them. Even if the actual attackers aren't directly conspiring with those groups, they're still being radicalized by those groups and the rhetoric that those groups spread.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:10
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Solaris 2.0 posted:Is it ok to discuss polling if only related to Trump or is it best to just sequester all of it in the primary thread? I think anything with food or vapes is acceptable
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Nov 4, 2019 20:10
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Solaris 2.0 posted:Is it ok to discuss polling if only related to Trump or is it best to just sequester all of it in the primary thread? Head-to-heads should go in the primary thread. Thing things like Trump approval and such can go here.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:12
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theflyingorc posted:1. They aren't used everywhere. You can't rig my state (NC) this way - we use scanned paper ballots Even with zero ability to be hacked, they can just simply not count votes. https://www.theroot.com/exclusive-thousands-of-black-votes-in-georgia-disappea-1832472558
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Nov 4, 2019 20:17
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theflyingorc posted:1. They aren't used everywhere. You can't rig my state (NC) this way - we use scanned paper ballots This is so completely wrong that it borders on willful self-deception. I que'd this up to a specific scene: the 2004 election was stolen and Kerry knew that for certain before he conceded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZLWPleeCHE&t=2288s
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Nov 4, 2019 20:17
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Old James posted:https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-loses-appeal-new-york-tax-case-must-hand-over-n1076061 so supreme court now? or will they get his stuff.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:19
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Dapper_Swindler posted:so supreme court now? or will they get his stuff. Supreme Court will roll their eyes and deny cert. Then the NY Grand Jury will get his taxes, possibly setting up an indictment of Trump in the middle of the campaign next year.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:22
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Dapper_Swindler posted:so supreme court now? or will they get his stuff. They're going to file an appeal to SCOTUS either way. Most court watchers believe that they are not willing to rule in his favor here (which would mean that the president is entirely immune to any kind of investigation and that's a bridge too far for Roberts) so the most likely outcome is that the appeal is denied and the taxes are handed over. This will take at a minimum several days to unfold.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:23
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Fart Amplifier posted:Even with zero ability to be hacked, they can just simply not count votes. I'm aware that something may have happened in Georgia - I don't deny that everything there looks fishy. There's a reason that it's the only serious example given, again and again. But again - if you just think the final vote totals can be changed - we're done, the only potential outcome is massive civil war to fix things.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:24
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theflyingorc posted:I'm aware that something may have happened in Georgia - I don't deny that everything there looks fishy. There's a reason that it's the only serious example given, again and again. What about the example of New Mexico in 2004?
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Nov 4, 2019 20:26
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