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SirViver posted:In general I feel ROTR has a lot of game systems or design decisions that are just not that interesting (after the first few times of using it) and waste your time for no or too little benefit. See: crafting, dialogue options requiring to be listened to the end to trigger their effect, at times being too much of a walking simulator, etc. Also the new tutorial that moved the teleporter to the top floor in the starting building seems like something that was done for development convenience without a second thought about the consequences for the player. These aren't necessarily huge issues individually, but all taken together the ratio of actually interesting things to time wasters just seems a bit off. I haaaate the Translocator being moved to the top loving floor. It's such a pointless nuisance for no actual benefit. The tutorial's something you'll do maybe once, while the Translocator's gonna be used repeatedly and needs to be close the Honeybake Hamlet ones for convenience.
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Nov 4, 2019 17:39
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Turin Turambar posted:My own interpretation is that Apple noticed AR is still too far away to offer a good, solid, polished product, usable in the real world, which is why their team was disbanded. A partnership with Valve makes sense because if even it's done in collaboration between the two, it will be released under Valve's name so the expectations of what a iProduct has to be quality wise won't be there. Neddy Seagoon posted:My guess is they're cribbing off whatever's useful from the SteamVR API for tracking purposes, and standardizing against it for software at the same time. Thats unlikely to be the case even if the end result will look like that. They quit the OpenXR committee quite a while ago. My guess is this is a strategic play because they know their weaknesses in their desktop app store and the hardcore gamer market are shored up by Valve’s strength in those plus it being the only credible competitor for consumers. I think tethering to a non Apple device is probably unlikely initially but perhaps some sort of crossbuy with Steam is...possible, though unconventional. (Edit: depends on whether they’re trying to feed their phone ecosystem or retain control over the software. Both are plausible to some degree)
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Nov 4, 2019 18:30
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Luneshot posted:Alright, still pretty new to VR so this is going to be a dumb question. That's kinda how it goes, so you generally just have to find a place that's a balance between firm enough to stay in place but not so firm its squeezing your head. Don't have a Rift S and dunno what the default is like but getting a nice leather face cover makes a big difference on comfort. SirViver posted:So, I gave ROTR normal mode another go and... it's getting better. * Scribbles down notes * interesting Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Nov 4, 2019 |
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Nov 4, 2019 19:08
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I did one of those Avengers experiences in VR recently. The kit was basically a backpack PC running a Vive but somehow they did individual finger tracking inside the game with no gloves or anything - anyone know how that's accomplished? Seemed like 90% accurate somehow!
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Nov 4, 2019 19:22
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https://www.leapmotion.com/ probably something like this
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Nov 4, 2019 19:31
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Speaking of, at some point I'm planning a weekend trip to The Cities to do the Star Wars experience at The VOID with some friends. Anyone been who can say if it's worth it?
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Nov 4, 2019 19:39
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Owlbear Camus posted:Speaking of, at some point I'm planning a weekend trip to The Cities to do the Star Wars experience at The VOID with some friends. Anyone been who can say if it's worth it? Voids cool. No idea that exp, but the void itself is cool.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:43
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I've done the star wars one. It's fun to try once but I wouldn't pay another 40 bucks to try it again, even if it was a totally different 'experience'. High fiving your storm trooper buddies is the highlight for sure.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:47
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Shine posted:H3VR's Take & Hold is fun as poo poo, goddamn. He really polished it up since the original WIP I played. Yes, I think H3VR Take & Hold is the best thing there exists in VR right now. The timing/difficulty/locomotion (armswingers)/reloading and feeling of exhilaration when you finish a hold with 200 hp is really something special. I've been trying to work with the remote rendering solutions with Quest (ALVR seems broken right now, the new Virtual Desktop is super sharp but I'm having judder). I think my ideal game VR would be Take and Hold with small arena scale physical locomotion during the holds (I've got around 37x27 in my backyard, and a private lockable park that much bigger very close). I think I have enough space for most of the holds (if I reset my play space carefully before every hold), and physically running then ducking behind cover to reload/find the enemies would be amazing. Stick100 fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Nov 4, 2019 |
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Nov 4, 2019 21:06
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H3VR is great but the short comings of the design and apparent complexity of the underlying code base that makes adding things like separating certain actions to be trigger or grab input only unfeasible is starting to frustrate me that I can't mod H3VR and fix these things myself. It's driving me dangerously close to starting my own VR Gun sim project like Zaphod42 is. I wanna experiment with something between Boneworks and H3VR. Having deep gun simulation and environmental interaction while also making it not a horrific chore to enjoy the drat thing.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:59
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JonTerp posted:H3VR is great but the short comings of the design and apparent complexity of the underlying code base that makes adding things like separating certain actions to be trigger or grab input only unfeasible is starting to frustrate me that I can't mod H3VR and fix these things myself. Yeah, I know that feeling. I haven't followed H3 development from the start, but it seems to me that it really started out as just a small project about dicking around with guns in VR, that then unexpectedly grew massively in size and scope, as tends to happen. Some of the "can't be done" answers Anton gives to certain requests just raise little red flags in my developer brain, and from a software engineering point of view very much hint at missing abstractions, most likely caused by some functionalities having being added too hastily in a too hardcoded/non-extensible way on top of a framework that wasn't properly designed for it. Not that it really could've been from the start unless you can predict the future, but part of good design is making it so that later modifications remain feasible as requirements change. Like it's really baffling how it's apparently completely impossible to make configurable grip and release force thresholds, or grip point offsets, or magazine hold angles (so that the alternate pistol mag angle isn't useless on the Index), or making it so that engaging the grip action ahead of time will just snap to the object/climb grip area once it intersects, but I guess that's just the way it is now. I think the other major difficulty at this point - and I believe that's maybe more of the reason why your request in particular won't be done - is that H3 has become too large, meaning too many guns and items for Anton and the other devs to properly handle. Any change that requires adding metadata information, like in the case of your request tagging each item whether it is "small" or "large" (or inventing proper, more generic categorizations) to differentiate which grip point would be allowed to interact with it, is now just too much work for something that may only be useful to a small number of players. I really like H3 but it could be improved in so many ways 
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Nov 5, 2019 00:31
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Truga posted:https://www.leapmotion.com/ probably something like this Exactly that, most VOID locations are heavily customized Rift CV1s with a Leap Motion v1 stuck on the front. I've been hearing about upgraded HMDs at the newer venues though.
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Nov 5, 2019 00:43
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Interesting, thanks.
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Nov 5, 2019 01:00
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SirViver posted:Yeah, I know that feeling. I haven't followed H3 development from the start, but it seems to me that it really started out as just a small project about dicking around with guns in VR, that then unexpectedly grew massively in size and scope, as tends to happen... Yeah. That’s exactly how I feel. Anton going “that’s unfeasible” made my Technical Producer brain go “wait what?”.
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Nov 5, 2019 01:54
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Anton's been pretty open in devlogs and some discussion replies about feature creep being a problem. They have actually rebuilt old code a few times now though (it's why muzzle brakes, underbarrel launchers, and bayonets exist), it's just a real undertaking for their small team to pull off. Especially for anything that requires individually tweaking all the guns.
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Nov 5, 2019 02:01
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Anton's been pretty open in devlogs and some discussion replies about feature creep being a problem. They have actually rebuilt old code a few times now though (it's why muzzle brakes, underbarrel launchers, and bayonets exist), it's just a real undertaking for their small team to pull off. Especially for anything that requires individually tweaking all the guns. It's a classic example of over scoping. I feel like Anton and his team have done a good job with the situation they're in but man. They need to move on. They need to wrap up dev on H3VR by putting final touches on Take & Hold and finishing the MEATS mode. Then get a fresh-ish start on a new game. Develop a better framework, write some tools to make managing their 100s of guns feasible for their team size, or better yet, don't add 200 guns when you can count the number of team members on a single hand. New income from a fresh game is also huge for overall growth of the team. VR dev is a nightmare right now because everyone wants you to support their headset / input method of choice, no matter how jank and bad they are. VR teams have it ROUGH to put it mildly.
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Nov 5, 2019 02:10
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Tatsuta Age posted:Yeah when is Oculus link releasing anyway November? Probably they will announce the beta at 11:59pm the day of Thanksgiving, sell an absolute poo poo ton of them Friday, and then two weeks of buggy link issues before they get it sorted, six more months before it gets out of beta
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Nov 5, 2019 02:21
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Hadlock posted:November? No, they've said the Beta is before the cable releases. I'm guessing it'll be a few weeks prior to catch the kinds of weird bugs that only pop up by letting thousands of people play with and break something leading up to the cable's release. Also Lenovo's set the Black Friday price for the Rift S at $350USD. Any takers on Oculus massively undercutting that for the Quest's price?
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Nov 5, 2019 02:26
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Stormland is supposed to have a release date of November 14th right? Who's hyped for that? I think it's the highest budget VR exclusive thus far? There's 20 mins of gameplay without commentary and all my non-VR friends were really impressed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28lM5Hxf78U
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Nov 5, 2019 02:35
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Calipark posted:It's a classic example of over scoping. I feel like Anton and his team have done a good job with the situation they're in but man. They need to move on. Yeah, as H3's early access has worn on, I've found myself wondering if Anton has a cutoff point in mind, where the game would effectively be "done". I'm with you in that finishing up T&H and a few of the other modes would be enough. Starting over from scratch is a daunting proposition, but there have got to be things he wants to do at this point that the existing codebase makes either impractical or impossible. Best to do it soon, before H3 reaches saturation and the sales start drying up.
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Nov 5, 2019 03:02
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at first i didnt understand H3VR, then i started playing with it more and enjoying it more. Then i started watching his dev logs and fell in love. I'd gladly Throw money at him to give him an opportunity to start his code new and fresh with his new knowledge.
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Nov 5, 2019 03:48
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OK, I finally took some time and did a Quest Wifi Streaming Latency comparison with ALVR Experimental v7 against the latest Virtual Desktop 1.7.0 (with the new Sliced / Forveated Encoding) Monitor is an Alienware AW3418DW running at 120hz Gsync on, driven by an RTX 2080 On Virtual Desktop I used the sideloaded app and streamed the desktop. On ALVR I launched Steam VR and used the "Desktop" feature on this. It may have a large difference vs running an actual VR game, but I don't know of a way to count frames in VR. Comparison video used was: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzYIrNpGB80 Results: code:If anyone has a high-speed camera, and/or can write a simple desktop VR app to count up in frames, we could get an even more accurate comparison. Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Nov 5, 2019 |
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Nov 5, 2019 04:10
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Calipark posted:It's a classic example of over scoping. I feel like Anton and his team have done a good job with the situation they're in but man. They need to move on. I 1000% disagree. They need to keep working on H3VR as people are playing it. It's one of the highest played VR games, if it can stay that way it will also stay one of the highest selling games. Stopping development to work on a VR sequel is monetary suicide. I do think they should consider raising the price, or at least commit to $20 is the lowest it will ever be no matter what (don't wait for a sale). VR is growing and if you can stay one of the best selling (or played) VR games, for years to come you will make buckets of money. The Holopoint developer stopped the development of Holopoint to make a sequel. Did you know he made Holopoint Chronicles? Success is so hard in VR, that he shouldn't step away form what success they have. Adding and adding has converter many pirates into buyers, and many buyers into fans, if he can keep adding and adding for years and getting more and more purchases he'll be successful. I think he could consider starting to make new things DLC instead of free, but the VR market is growing and there are new potential buyers every day, so keeping the product steady could pay off very well. Stick100 fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Nov 5, 2019 |
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Nov 5, 2019 06:58
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Zero VGS posted:... Which ALVR were you using? I tried beta 5 from Github recently and it hardly was functional (only one controller, no buttons work).
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Nov 5, 2019 06:59
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Stick100 posted:Which ALVR were you using? I tried beta 5 from Github recently and it hardly was functional (only one controller, no buttons work). That one is broke, use this fork: https://github.com/JackD83/ALVR/releases I still haven't figured out a way to get it perfect without totally disabling Windows Firewall and unplugging my modem, but drat is it perfect when I do.
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Nov 5, 2019 07:20
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Zero VGS posted:Stormland is supposed to have a release date of November 14th right? Who's hyped for that? I think it's the highest budget VR exclusive thus far?
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Nov 5, 2019 08:07
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Stick100 posted:I 1000% disagree. They need to keep working on H3VR as people are playing it. It's one of the highest played VR games, if it can stay that way it will also stay one of the highest selling games.
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Nov 5, 2019 08:09
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ShadowHawk posted:Switching to a DLC model is an obvious in-between solution. It doesn't have to be onerous $$ for every skin/gun/whatever - big "sequel-like" expansion packs could be a thing people are happy to pay for. Fuuuck no. That's just more work for no gain and an unhappy playerbase that's been splintered. Especially as they now have to code everything with the idea that it works with or without the expansion(s), multiplying their workload into several simultaneous builds to maintain during development and testing.
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Nov 5, 2019 08:12
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Fuuuck no. That's just more work for no gain and an unhappy playerbase that's been splintered. Especially as they now have to code everything with the idea that it works with or without the expansion(s), multiplying their workload into several simultaneous builds to maintain during development and testing. Like, obviously it's better for players if they keep getting constant updates for a game they already own without paying
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Nov 5, 2019 08:16
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ShadowHawk posted:Well, the gain would be the revenue You already have enough of a time getting people with the same game in vr together to play as is. Could you imagine 4 friends with piece meal dlc? Yeah oof. (I realize h3 isn’t mp, just saying, could you imagine lol)
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Nov 5, 2019 09:52
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EbolaIvory posted:You already have enough of a time getting people with the same game in vr together to play as is. Could you imagine 4 friends with piece meal dlc? Yeah oof. That issue is easily fixable by only requiring the host (or any player) to own the DLC.
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Nov 5, 2019 12:43
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ShadowHawk posted:Well, the gain would be the revenue Not versus the effort required to manage multiple builds for a small team going forward. That gets larger with every expansion pack.
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Nov 5, 2019 12:52
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Rectus posted:That issue is easily fixable by only requiring the host (or any player) to own the DLC. Yeah that is easy except in the history of all games on any system no one has done it yet. Why buy the dlc if you only play multiplayer with friends and one of them owns it. It’s better (monetarily) to take the call of duty route and fragment your player base on DLC and make them pay to play. It’s lovely, absolutely, but also it forces players into DLC purchases
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Nov 5, 2019 13:52
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Yeah that is easy except in the history of all games on any system no one has done it yet. Paradox games do it.
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Nov 5, 2019 13:58
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Yeah that is easy except in the history of all games on any system no one has done it yet. There are a bunch of games that do that, not even just Paradox games. I think even Nintendo does that iirc? So it's not even a PC-specific thing to do that.
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Nov 5, 2019 14:24
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It's a shame Anton hates Oculus because H3VR on a Quest port would be pretty awesome.
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Nov 5, 2019 15:07
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Player fragmentation within a single product only matters for multiplayer games. H3VR will never be multiplayer. I think the DLC model could work very well with H3 for monetization, though it's of course a bit tricky to apply this after the fact. As long as DLC only contained content (weapons) and maybe game modes it'd really be no different than now, where players just don't use the content/modes they're not interested in. I'm also not really sure about "completing" H3 and starting new vs. continuing to build on it, though I'm leaning towards the latter. Starting a second game sure would do away with all the code base design mistakes, but would also actually lead to user base fragmentation in a tiny niche market, and now your small team suddenly has to deal with two problems, because H3 doesn't just magically go away. I think what would be more realistic is Anton and his team freezing feature development for half a year or so just to refactor the code base into something that is more maintainable/extensible. Maybe sprinkle in some tiny fixes or easy features to keep player engagement up, but just continuing to post devlogs with a little bit of detail what is being worked on would probably accomplish most of that.
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Nov 5, 2019 15:29
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OctaviusBeaver posted:It's a shame Anton hates Oculus because H3VR on a Quest port would be pretty awesome. Lol, that's not why it's not on Quest. H3VR takes the simulation part of it being a gun sim game seriously, and it's doing some heavy physics calculations to realistically model how all the firearms behave. Which the Quest just does not have the power to handle.
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Nov 5, 2019 15:34
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OctaviusBeaver posted:It's a shame Anton hates Oculus because H3VR on a Quest port would be pretty awesome. If I recall he mentioned in the subreddit he wasn't going to make a Quest port because the weaker hardware would require essentially a new game built from scratch with sacrifices to the physics and whatnot he didn't want to make, not because of any Oculus hate. Like the game is a goofy detailed gun simulator that happens to have gameplay built on it. There's some things it's just not going to be, but to be honest I personally don't care since I've long since got my money's worth and continue to have fun with it Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Nov 5, 2019 |
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Nov 5, 2019 15:37
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Yeah that is easy except in the history of all games on any system no one has done it yet.
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