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20 pounds overweight off a couch is a whole dif animal than 20 pounds of muscle or even just decent shape but bigger overall. It changes at different sizes too. 140 to 160 is bigger than 220 to 240. Both because percentage and how people kinda work* Excepting freak monster people who don't follow that scale at either end.
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Oct 25, 2019 19:15
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Especially when heavier can mean taller which means more leverage, which turns into a much bigger differential in functional strength than you might think.
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Oct 25, 2019 20:17
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I see. I'm 5'10". If I trained in Muay Thai for 2 years will I likely be able to beat someone who is 6' 3" and doesn't do a martial arts but has basic knowledge in how to a fight (got in a few scrambles in the past)?
punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Oct 25, 2019 |
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Oct 25, 2019 20:39
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punk rebel ecks posted:but can "carry themselves" in a fight? All the variability in your hypothetical is in this phrase. If you train 3 times a week and are looking to have your first smoker or amateur fight by the end of 2 years, with coach approval, you could probably beat someone who's that much taller than you, maybe 30lbs heavier, and is fit but has "watched a few UFCs with interest" for training.
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Oct 25, 2019 20:57
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kimbo305 posted:All the variability in your hypothetical is in this phrase. I see. Yeah this all hugely varies. "Carry themselves" means different things to different people. And as I said "30 lbs" also varies. Hell, I don't even think weight matters much I you don't exercise/life, but maybe I'm just naive? By carry themselves I meant someone who has been in a few street fights but not a badass or anything. Anyway, good to know. For what it's worth, what you described is pretty much me. I go to class three or four times a week and my couch wants me to enter a fight after my one year mark. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Oct 25, 2019 |
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Oct 25, 2019 21:02
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punk rebel ecks posted:but maybe I'm just naive? No offense, but it's this. The more time you spend in a combat sport the more time you'll realize that relative size and strength paired with athletic ability can make a huge factor in fighting. People 30lbs heavier than you just hit different. Trained vs untrained is a different story but this whole discussion began with a guy who's trained and 90lbs heavier than another guy who also trains but has a skill advantage.
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Oct 26, 2019 03:34
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Yep. There's a reason Butterbean has a winning MMA record at 425lbs. Having not-completely-terrible cardio and extensive experience in how to throw a punch is a huge difference, even for a fatass.
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Oct 26, 2019 04:12
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I forget the full diattibe it was on or I'd link it but Keenan talked about how if skills are equal, strongnguy will win. But if a guy has way way better technique in BJJ then they should be able to effectively neutralize a lotnof the strength advantages which I agree with. I outweigh my coach and a bunch of the higher belts and they're able to neutralize a lot of my pressure/wrestling with just better technique. So in that video, yeah the big guy is gonna manhandle the little guy because the technique knowledge isn't really there.
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Oct 26, 2019 05:04
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JaySB posted:Trained vs untrained is a different story but this whole discussion began with a guy who's trained and 90lbs heavier than another guy who also trains but has a skill advantage. I didn't realize that someone who frequently trains could have a hard time with someone notably bigger but doesn't train. I guess I wonder at what part if the breaking point when someone with a lot of experience goes against someone with very little or none at all. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Oct 26, 2019 |
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Oct 26, 2019 05:22
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Mekchu posted:So in that video, yeah the big guy is gonna manhandle the little guy because the technique knowledge isn't really there. That's a completely untrained person (in grappling) vs a white/blue belt...So, sure a purple belt or higher is probably gonna be able to negate that. punk rebel ecks posted:I guess I wonder at what part if the breaking point when someone with a lot of experience goes against someone with very little or none at all. Somewhere, you don't want to find out along the way. There's a ton of variables, did the untrained person play sports? etc etc. Elite level athletes even if untrained in fighting are going to be a handful to deal with because of explosive strength and athleticism. Guy who benches 400+ lbs can probably generate some force with a punch. Guy who weighs 250lbs+ and played college football probably isn't gonna be easy to takedown, etc etc.
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Oct 26, 2019 07:51
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JaySB posted:That's a completely untrained person (in grappling) vs a white/blue belt...So, sure a purple belt or higher is probably gonna be able to negate that. Right. Sorry if that's what I wasn't clear or whatever. I posted that semi-awake. Mekchu fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Oct 26, 2019 |
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Oct 26, 2019 11:32
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A steady diet of Kesting and Ryan Hall
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Oct 26, 2019 13:01
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JaySB posted:Somewhere, you don't want to find out along the way. There's a ton of variables, did the untrained person play sports? etc etc. Elite level athletes even if untrained in fighting are going to be a handful to deal with because of explosive strength and athleticism. Guy who benches 400+ lbs can probably generate some force with a punch. Guy who weighs 250lbs+ and played college football probably isn't gonna be easy to takedown, etc etc. I think I understand. Everything varies depending on the person. "Fit" and "athletic" isn't very specific as that can mean anywhere from someone who occasionally plays basketball with their friends on the weekend to someone who is/was on a college sports team. Similarly how "trained" can mean anything from "I took one year of boxing or BJJ" to "I have been training in multiple martial arts for a decade and regularly compete in regionals." Thus it is very difficult to determine the exact results due to the numerous amount of factors. Yes, someone who has been trained in fighting should beat up an opponent who is untrained. But if the untrained opponent is notably bigger then there are other factors to look for. The opponent shouldn't be a problem if they are a couch potato, but if they played say rugby then that changes things. Also how "untrained" is said opponent? Have they never taken a martial arts class at all? Have they fought with their friends for fun? Do they know how to throw a punch? How is their fighting instinct? Will they start getting in the zone and throw punches or instead close their eyes and dish out sloppy haymakers? Sure there are videos of fighters beating up on bigger muscle men, but to be fair they tend to be highly skilled with years of experience and know exactly how to exploit and punish the massive sized holes in their opponents fighting style. And even then there is a limit of how far such fighters could reach. Like any other sport, fighting takes years to build up such expertise and skill. It's not like movies where there is a montage of a nerd training for a month and he becomes a badass, that's not how it works. The advantages someone has due to size is highly significantly and how much time and effort it takes to close that gap depends on how much the fighter trains and just how big the size difference and how much the person has utilized their gifts in size. For example, if they don't life weights or do any activities to exercise those muscles then they won't have much or even any of a strength advantaged compared to a fighter who is more fit. So again, there are a lot of factors at play, but taking it all in, kimbo's post seems to make a lot of sense. Do I seem to get it or am I still being the village idiot of this thread?
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Oct 26, 2019 22:23
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https://youtu.be/Aaehn1aY8Ig You can see how red Halfthor gets, muscle mass like that needs a lot of energy to keep functioning. I think cardio is easily one of the big differences between someone with a more athletic physique who has trained for a while, and someone big and new to combat sports. This sparring session was not long before one of Conor's fights in the UFC so I'm sure there was no way the Mountain was allowed to try and hurt Conor anyway. https://youtu.be/D3EjguU3U1g at 2mins into this interview he thinks he would have a chance in a real match, not sure what to think. A lot of big guys think that, I think if Conor had plenty of room to keep distance he would just outlast someone huge.
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Oct 27, 2019 00:37
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starkebn posted:I think if Conor had plenty of room to keep distance he would just outlast someone huge. Conversely, what if The Mountain just decided to play the waiting game and waited for Conor to engage then bullrushed him? He doesn't HAVE to pursue him the whole time like he did in that video. I recently saw a video of him deadlifting 1014lbs like it was nothing he could literally blast Conor into orbit
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Oct 27, 2019 03:19
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There's some video of Conor and him goofing around and he tried that but conor was too quick with his movements to really get stuck in a bad position.
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Oct 27, 2019 03:35
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punk rebel ecks posted:I think I understand. Quick and easy research: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3883865 Go watch Streetbeefs.
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Oct 27, 2019 03:54
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For weird fight stuff, check out this dude. Earnie Shavers started boxing at 22 (which is "too late") and basically immediately started knocking people the gently caress out. He's a consensus hardest puncher of his era, which had some quality boxers. So you could have been in that gym, boxed your entire life, and have this dude walk in one day off the street and put you out. A couple years later he's in the ring with Ali. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnie_Shavers
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Oct 27, 2019 16:21
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Xguard86 posted:For weird fight stuff, check out this dude. Earnie Shavers started boxing at 22 (which is "too late") and basically immediately started knocking people the gently caress out. He's a consensus hardest puncher of his era, which had some quality boxers. Yeah, every competitive sport has prodigies who dominate after a cartoonishly short time. I was more so referring to the majority of people who fall in some type median. As pointed out before that there will always be those who fall in extreme ends of the spectrum. Reading this thread there seems to be a lot of controversy about this. Not to mention I get the feeling that people in this thread are getting annoyed with me. I would have probably been better off just asking my coaches, rather than opening up a subject that is likely a can of worms in the community. Sorry if I irritated anyone. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Oct 27, 2019 |
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Oct 27, 2019 17:03
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punk rebel ecks posted:Yeah, every competitive sport has prodigies who dominate after a cartoonishly short time. I was more so referring to the majority of people who fall in some type median. As pointed out before that there will always be those who fall in extreme ends of the spectrum. Reading this thread there seems to be a lot of controversy about this. Not to mention I get the feeling that people in this thread are getting annoyed with me. I would have probably been better off just asking my coaches, rather than opening up a subject that is likely a can of worms in the community. I think you're just kind of over analyzing it
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Oct 27, 2019 17:06
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Just wait until you're sparring and analyzing your decision making every second of every round.
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Oct 27, 2019 17:55
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I'm just glad I've gotten to the point where I'm finally able to recognize that's I've messed up just a second before I get punched in the face.
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Oct 27, 2019 18:08
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You should worry less about Conor vs the mountain, and more about Conor or the mountain vs a regular drunk rear end in a top hat. Both are at a tremendous advantage
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Nov 2, 2019 08:27
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Going off the CCTV footage, a Conor can't knock out a regular drunk rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 2, 2019 10:15
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Checked out my first martial arts school in Seattle after my move. It was this place https://www.tkd-seattle.com/ Pros: * Regular sparring on the calendar * Sparring isn't WT style * It's within walking distance * Tons of classes Cons: * Expensive, $195/mo if I go month-to-month, $165/mo if I sign up for a year * The more aggressive kind of sparring is apparently only done with this massive safety boxing gloves * The adult black belts didn't seem that good * Doesn't promote competition I'm leaning away from this place, which is kind of sad because it's nearby and I kinda want to continue practicing TKD.
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Nov 7, 2019 07:08
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Out of curiousity, how would you like to spar? Small gloves but also head hits?
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Nov 7, 2019 08:36
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Competition is big, even tkd. It's goofy rules but there's some external feedback for the gym. You don't need world class competitors and everyone doesn't need to compete but I would flag a place that never competes, ever.
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Nov 7, 2019 15:55
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Xguard86 posted:Competition is big, even tkd. It's goofy rules but there's some external feedback for the gym. My last school wasn't huge into competition but we'd have students go to sport karate tournaments a couple times a year. Just point sparring and it was all supposed to be controlled contact and no face strikes but you still could end up getting drilled in the face. It was enough that you could at least tell if they're training you to at least be good at playing tag. This place I checked out said they don't do tournaments because they focus on the practical application of TKD. It's just enough to smell like bullshido. I would just give them the benefit of the doubt and try it out for a month but even with $techbux their monthly fee is a bit high.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:16
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Well, tonight I said fukkit, spend $180 on a Judo gi, a USJF membership, and doko fees to start learning judo. First class is on Monday.
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Nov 8, 2019 06:25
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captkirk posted:Well, tonight I said fukkit, spend $180 on a Judo gi, a USJF membership, and doko fees to start learning judo. First class is on Monday. Congrats on your first step to being really pedantic about throws
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Nov 8, 2019 16:05
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Had my first Judo class tonight. It was pretty fun. There was a visiting instructor that only spoke Japanese and the usual instructor translated. Turns out she's Nakamura Misato, a two time Olympic medalist. Well, drat.
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Nov 12, 2019 07:53
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Had a good conversation after training today with my master about strength of strikes and technique with a precursor countermove/wind up (for lack of a better word) leading up to it. I am thinking of making a load-cell target to put an actual metric to strikes, but I need to wrap my head around the best way to make one. Something that can be used for punch/elbow strikes/straight kick (so straight on) but also something like a snap kick (load from bottom going up), axe kicks (top down) and side loads (like a crescent and hook kicks) - forgive me if different arts use different terminology for the kicks. I am thinking of a device that probably bolts (maybe some quick release device) with a loadcell and a digital readout that gives lb/f readouts from a strike. Anyone know of a device that exists already or am I looking at making something from scratch? If not, is there a market for such a device? slidebite fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Nov 24, 2019 |
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Nov 24, 2019 06:58
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I get what you're going for but I feel like a heavy bag and someone to film you with a smartphone would get you 90% of the way there.
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Nov 24, 2019 11:13
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That's not really how power in striking works, punches and kicks aren't projectiles.
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Nov 24, 2019 16:18
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Got my first ranking this weekend. Gotta admit I'm kinda nervous. Not that I'll mess it up or anything, although I will I know this is like a baby ranking and impossible to fail unless I try to. Just nervous anyway.
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Nov 26, 2019 01:37
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Mechafunkzilla posted:That's not really how power in striking works, punches and kicks aren't projectiles. Yeah it's measured in FT*. Ford Tempos
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Nov 26, 2019 05:01
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The Ranking was sort of disappointing, even though I went in expecting it to be. I sort of get the feeling that it's a "so long as you keep showing up, you'll keep advancing, whether or not you practice your forms or do them right and well or not doesn't matter". Which sort of takes some of the oomph out of it, I guess, it feels... less than deserved? And like it's almost not worth putting effort into in the future because its a sure thing anyway so why bother, you know? But then I guess ultimately I'm only really doing this for myself anyway, so it shouldn't matter.
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Dec 6, 2019 19:22
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GlyphGryph posted:The Ranking was sort of disappointing, even though I went in expecting it to be. I sort of get the feeling that it's a "so long as you keep showing up, you'll keep advancing, whether or not you practice your forms or do them right and well or not doesn't matter". This is most traditional martial arts. People that are bad and just stick with it will get promoted regardless of their ability to demonstrate or teach what ever it is. source: Mid level in a few TMA's, gave the finger to all of them once I realized that if I literally just showed up and didn't piss off the owner I'd get promoted. edit: It's up to you, if you feel its worth it, I know dudes who are competent in BJJ who got their black belts in some TMAs and just collected them because it was fun. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Dec 6, 2019 |
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Dec 6, 2019 19:28
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While Defenestrategy might be correct, that was also your first exam at the place. Not only has nobody in the world failed their first grading, you came in with experience from another martial art to begin with so you already knew how to tell your right foot from your left.
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Dec 6, 2019 19:56
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I've seen people fail their first grading in kendo  ...it's rare, but it does happen.
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Dec 6, 2019 20:03
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