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lmao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmW2r3KTdNw
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Nov 7, 2019 03:12
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Pinterest Mom posted:Whew What was Jamal planning on happening if Noura had been Dean’s vote? Well, Karishma for sure, but boy that was a risky play. I’m sure some viewers will say it’s getting too preachy with the back-to-back issue episodes but if that’s when those conversations happened, that’s just the way it goes. It was a good conversation that I’ve definitely seen play out online a few times. Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 03:17
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Pinterest Mom posted:man this plan had so many moving parts and relied on noura being able to keep her mouth shut and I'm shocked it worked Kellee using Noura as insurance in case Dean betrayed her with her idol was probably an overplay. I would feel better about her if only Dean was part of what just happened.
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Nov 7, 2019 03:22
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The entire thing was an overplay. She played the idol because she had it, not because it made any sense.
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Nov 7, 2019 03:27
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She wanted to keep Dean and get rid of Jack.
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Nov 7, 2019 03:31
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Dean could be a cool secret ally for her if nobody suspected her. Eliminating Jack right before merge could also have been like Domenick throwing to take out Bradley.
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Nov 7, 2019 03:32
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Schlonged Again posted:She wanted to keep Dean and get rid of Jack. It seemed like she talked herself into it. Her starting point was not wanting to "waste" the idol.
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Nov 7, 2019 03:35
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Making a big play with your idol can be big for your 'resume'
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Nov 7, 2019 04:17
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The thing about it is that Dean likely isn't gonna sell out what he views as his ticket in, and Noura knows nothing about the idol, so... it's a move that costs her nothing, gains her a loyal ally and likely a jury vote, and a "big move" to talk about if she's in front of the jury.
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Nov 7, 2019 05:15
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Pinterest Mom posted:man this plan had so many moving parts and relied on noura being able to keep her mouth shut and I'm shocked it worked Maybe I misunderstood but I don't think Kellee let Noura in on the full plan. I think her plan was to tip Noura off that she thought Dean may have an idol and was voting Noura, so she should vote Jack as a mini 5-1-1 vote split insurance plan. What *is* impressive is Noura kept her poker face up when Jamal played the idol on her, since Noura knew the idol was going to be wasted and Jamal was just sealing his own ally's fate.
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Nov 7, 2019 05:20
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She didn't know that -- it was entirely possible that Dean voted for her, so Jamal could've saved her from the tie
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Nov 7, 2019 05:45
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I have absolutely no idea if Kellee let Noura in or the exact mechanics of the move, nor do I know if it was the right one. But I see the logic, I don't think it was driven out of "using the idol to use it" but rather in keeping a potentially key secret ally in Dean, and it appears to have worked. So points to her. It could still come back on her but kudos for coming up with a big move, executing it, and having a real game reason to do it. Also calling out why 3 women is always a "girl's alliance" but 3 men aren't. I like Kellee. blue squares posted:Every "lesson" is the same There's a reason Rob is always talking. If Sandra was the teacher every lesson would be "Don't be a stupid dumbass."
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Nov 7, 2019 05:52
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STAC Goat posted:Also calling out why 3 women is always a "girl's alliance" but 3 men aren't. qft Let's think this through. Kellee pockets Dean, one old orange vote into a purple vote. On the other beach, purple is getting compromised. So either Kellee goes Orange or this makes zero sense.
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Nov 7, 2019 06:54
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Or Kellee's just keeping options available to her and potential allies since she doesn't know how things will play out and there's a game beyond "purple vs orange"? Like I said, I have no idea if this was the right move or if its gonna work out for her. You never do. But I don't think it was some "move to make a move" thing or was born out of the idol. She had a secret connection with Dean and has said for weeks that she sees him as a potentially key ally. The tribe targeted Dean. She found a way to keep Dean and possibly keep the heat off her (and in doing so potentially built trust with Dean and maybe Noura too if she was part of the plan). If that works out Dean (and maybe Noura) might prove a key vote, source of information, or late game ally when she makes a move or someone makes a move against her. It also could blow up in her face or amount to nothing. All you can really do is keep your options open so you're not boxed in without any moves later.
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Nov 7, 2019 07:01
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You're not wrong, STAC. Optioning can be key, I just don't see Kellee in a position desperate enough to really warrant it. Yes, she saw and took the chance to save Dean. But even the way she said it, is his ex really that close of a bonding point? I don't really buy it. He's an ace for her, but he'll be the one laughing due to the post-swap silliness.
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Nov 7, 2019 07:11
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I think the really strong winners make moves like this when their backs aren't against the wall BECAUSE they have the temporary security and foresight to say "I don't have to do this now but I can and it might help me later". Kellee felt like she could pull this off without any damage and it looks like she MIGHT have pulled it off. Which isn't to say Kellee is gonna win or this will help her. But I think if we look at the best players we'll see a lot of them making moves from positions of power to set up later moves. Thats the "chess" part. Its just really hard to anticipate how it will shape out since there's so many players and unknowns. When they work, sometimes they become key moves.
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Nov 7, 2019 07:18
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I think the problem with the chess analysis is that Kellee needs some extraordinary circumstances to make any use of what she just pulled off. We're looking at seven Vokai and six Lairo going into the merge, so in order to make use of Dean she needs to flip AND ALSO not just be voted off first when it comes down to brass tacks. But hey, it's merge time. Who knows. e: she could also try to convince Vokai to not go after Dean, but lol at that after that performance.
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Nov 7, 2019 07:27
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the closer the numbers are, the less disposable any one number is -- so if it's 7-6 then vokai can't afford to drop anyone, if you keep the numbers closer you keep yourself safer as long as nobody does anything self-destructive
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Nov 7, 2019 07:29
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curiousCat posted:the closer the numbers are, the less disposable any one number is -- so if it's 7-6 then vokai can't afford to drop anyone, if you keep the numbers closer you keep yourself safer as long as nobody does anything self-destructive My point is that what Kellee did was self-destructive, even if nobody other than Dean knows she did it. e: especially if Noura puts two and two together Propaganda Machine fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 07:30
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Yeah, one number can make all the difference. You never know who is gonna flip or try and make a big move or be secretly plotting a blindside on you. Having people who you trust who others don't know you trust can potentially save your game. And every single vote could be the one that saves you or sends you packing. Problem is you can't control what all those secret allies do or say. So you're just planting seeds and hoping something grows at the right time. Propaganda Machine posted:My point is that what Kellee did was self-destructive, even if nobody other than Dean knows she did it. I don't think we got any clear sign that it was self destructive, although it certainly COULD end up being. It was definitely a gamble in a vote where she could have played it safe. She clearly felt the gamble was worth it because it might pay off later, but if blows up in her face right after Tribal then obviously she was wrong.
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Nov 7, 2019 07:35
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Honestly? She strikes me as likable arrogance. She may very well win, but I wouldn't be surprised to see her go out mid-merge, and I wouldn't be shocked to see another major flub or two leading her to that fate.
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Nov 7, 2019 08:00
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I like how the whole season has been playing up the girls alliance and then to have Kellee's gently caress this girl alliance bullshit speech.
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Nov 7, 2019 08:52
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The women's alliance was on OG Lairo. Kellee and Janet were on OG Vokai.
STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 09:05
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I think it's a fair point that the female alliance is an unfair gimme. Very rarely if ever has the girls' alliance panned out. in One World they were separated by gender to start with, and Micronesia was just extraordinarily special. Vanuatu, for instance, failed spectacularly, and that's the only other one of note that I can even think of. Stop worrying about the girls sharing tampon tips. Just stop.
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Nov 7, 2019 09:13
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STAC Goat posted:The women's alliance was on OG Lairo. Kellee and Janet were on OG Vokai. Not saying Kellee had anything to do with the girls alliance or anything. Just funny on the editors part to play it up just for this speech.
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Nov 7, 2019 09:18
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There was a girls alliance on one tribe that affected votes and worked together (and also ended up betraying each other twice with different members). So like, I don't think they "played it up" any more than it seemed to actually be a thing. That doesn't change Kellee's point that every time women have equal or greater numbers than men on these reality shows the men start going "We have to worry about the girl's alliance!" But people don't assume every guy is going to just naturally work together. Its definitely an assumption that predominantly gets made about one sex. The editors (and Jeff) chose to include it in the edit when they could have cut it, because they like covering these topics just like last week. But I imagine it just happened the way it did with Jamal bringing it up and pressing a button with Kellee. And yeah, you can count the number of successful "girls alliances" on one hand so like, what's the terrifying fear that has to come up every season?
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Nov 7, 2019 09:27
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I don't blame Jamal for getting paranoid about it. Not his fault that editing tries to suggest a potential girls alliance what seems like every season even if it almost never happens. Him playing his idol on Noura was one of the strangest idol plays I can remember. Hope that comes up in an interview sometime because I'd love to know his reasoning.
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Nov 7, 2019 10:04
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I've tried to work up like half a dozen theories on what Jamal was thinking there and none of them end up making sense.
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Nov 7, 2019 10:10
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I think this was a really, really good episode. Contrast it to the penultimate premerge episode of Game Changers which was like the beginning of the slide to... well. I think this was actually a good move for Kellee? Dean probably feels some sort of loyalty to her now (and really, he's got nobody else to lean on at the moment). She can cover her tracks. And I think she has enough people backing her that even the NOTS bringing up her name isn't making me scared of her. I do think taking out Jamal would have been smarter. Buuuut we've seen people like Jack skate their way to the end before. We don't usually get a Jamal that slides under the radar that long. As for Jamal playing the idol on Noura... I think it's twofold. First, Dean is clearly anti-Noura, so it makes sense that Dean would want to take her out. Jamal and Dean could still form a guy-alliance down the road, so the chances are less that Dean takes out Jack or Jamal. Also, this kind of strengthens the bond between them, because it's a bit rocky but they still want her for numbers.
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Nov 7, 2019 10:35
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Maybe I'm a bad fan, but I hadn't even noticed Jack until tonight. But from what I saw, he was an excellent pre-merge target. He got about two seconds of screentime tonight and I was charmed. If (and only if) Kellee's singular goal with her move tonight was to get Jack gone I would be totally on board. Again, I think she was talking herself into things and didn't have the clear goal of getting Jack gone. It's a bit like she made a good move in spite of herself.
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Nov 7, 2019 10:40
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Kellee perfectly reasoned out why getting Jack or Jamal out would be fine for her. Kellee finds it harder to work with Jamal and he won't likely to take her to the end, but while Jack's a good ally and she can work with him, he's also extremely charming and could very well find himself with a number of options at the merge, which might not include her.
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Nov 7, 2019 11:26
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Fairly certain there have been more, and more successful bro alliances than women alliances. Both Kellee and Janet made good, rational strategic choices this week. And somehow Karishma survived another tribal. Noura: Jamal, I hate you - but that's better than being indifferent towards you. Jamal: In that case here have an idol.  Me: 
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Nov 7, 2019 11:43
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ApplesandOranges posted:Kellee perfectly reasoned out why getting Jack or Jamal out would be fine for her. Kellee finds it harder to work with Jamal and he won't likely to take her to the end, but while Jack's a good ally and she can work with him, he's also extremely charming and could very well find himself with a number of options at the merge, which might not include her. Yep, she said those things. Again though, I think her line of reasoning was: Need to use idol -> Dean is in danger and I like him I guess -> who else? Honestly, her reasoning for being fond of Dean is similar to the reasoning as to why she got Jack out. Yes, the ex is a bit personal, but there's no saying he's not doing that with everybody else (especially since Noura got in on it. NOURA.). e: Come to think of Dean was being mad charming around camp, and that's why they targeted him. This is just a bizarre move. Like maybe she built up goodwill with that idol, but at this stage in the Survivor meta that's virtually meaningless. He won't pay her back for it. You only play an idol on somebody else if it directly and immediately benefits you. Propaganda Machine fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 12:03
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Nah, I think it's perfectly valid right before a merge - there's a lot of instability that comes with it and the more possible allies you have going in, the better. Once a vote or two has passed that goodwill might wear off, but with any luck alliances will have semi-stabilized and you know what the next best move for you is.
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Nov 7, 2019 12:15
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Which is cool until you have a meal that isn't rice and sit down to think about it. The preview was nuts because it had to be, but Kellee is facing a merge down in original numbers. Getting rid of an original Vokai was short-sighted at best if you're considering your options between two fun and charismatic guys, one of whom you have a bond with, the other of whom- Okay, can somebody tell me why knowing an ex is meaningful? Because I don't have much fondness for my exes, and I'd play it up if I had to on Survivor but it would mean zilch to me.
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Nov 7, 2019 12:19
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Vokai is still up 7-6. Heck, it's effectively 8-5 since Karishma has no loyalty to her original tribe. Possibly even 9-4 since Dean also has no loyalty to his original tribe.
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Nov 7, 2019 12:54
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Propaganda Machine posted:Okay, can somebody tell me why knowing an ex is meaningful? Because I don't have much fondness for my exes, and I'd play it up if I had to on Survivor but it would mean zilch to me. It's pretty much because you are put on the island with 19 strangers that you know nothing about. But if it turns out 1 of those people is / was friends with someone you were also once friends with, you're probably going to be willing to work with that person. It's someone that you share something with outside the game.
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Nov 7, 2019 12:54
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Kellee could have played it safe and gone with everyone to Applebee's, but this new Poke place opened up last week, so she took a risk and ordered a dish she's never tried before. Will she get food poisoning? It remains to be seen, but it's possible that later down the road she'll be able to say "I know this cool Poke place" and everyone will think she is really cool and vote for her idea
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Nov 7, 2019 13:05
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ApplesandOranges posted:I think this was actually a good move for Kellee? Dean probably feels some sort of loyalty to her now (and really, he's got nobody else to lean on at the moment). She can cover her tracks. And I think she has enough people backing her that even the NOTS bringing up her name isn't making me scared of her. But I don't think she can cover her tracks. If Noura is asked something straight up, she does not lie. She didn't lie about targeting Jamal, she didn't lie about floating a woman's alliance. Can she start by denying she voted Jack when Jamal (who just idoled her) asks? Can she leave Kellee out of her story?
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Nov 7, 2019 14:06
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Karishma did okay in the challenge this episode, but at the very end, when there was just that final piece, she scrambled out of the way to let Jamal do it. He ended up needing a second person to pick up the other side of that piece so it could be dropped straight down into the opening. They could’ve won! Also funny was Elaine on the other side seeing the obviously wrong pieces and the people sitting out with a nice view screaming her down aggressively.
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Nov 7, 2019 14:22
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