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Koirhor posted:Fair enough if they don’t break the rules judges kinda hosed up *tugs collar uncomfortably* Edit: piss, beaten while resizing the image
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Nov 9, 2019 02:09
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Is there less leniency for altars at tournaments like PTs? I know I've seen some pretty gnarly altars and miscuts at GPs and Opens that left basically only the name of the card and part of the art untouched.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:10
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https://twitter.com/nucleosynthMTG/status/1192969824160436224Toshimo posted:Here's some more helpful tips about alters: https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2013/06/tournament-tuesday-card-alters-and-you/ nothing here says these alters would be against the rules?
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Nov 9, 2019 02:12
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Box of Bunnies posted:nothing here says these alters would be against the rules? I suggest you read it again.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:12
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Just awful handwriting. Look at that S in trans.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:17
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Box of Bunnies posted:nothing here says these alters would be against the rules? It's the "if it triggers Judges, no bueno" catchall
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Nov 9, 2019 02:18
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Box of Bunnies posted:https://twitter.com/nucleosynthMTG/status/1192969824160436224 no terfs on gruul terf is clearly strategic advice
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Nov 9, 2019 02:24
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no guru lands are safe until trans rights are accepted worldwide Shouta Yasooka you will have no quarter
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Nov 9, 2019 02:26
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Toshimo posted:Here's some more helpful tips about alters: https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2013/06/tournament-tuesday-card-alters-and-you/ It wasn’t even the judges you big dummy.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:26
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:It's the "if it triggers Judges, no bueno" catchall okay. but like, when Toshimo's first post was "why do you all think these are within the rules?" i'd kind have expected their followup to be something more specific to what is allowed within the rules on altered cards and actually relevant to these cards rather than their point simply being "it's ultimately up to the Head Judge" which like, yeah, of course and then it turned out to not be the judge's call anyway so lol
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Nov 9, 2019 02:28
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It's a real bad look for Wizards to pull this poo poo.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:35
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yeah I saw some people get timed out, and then a bunch more people joined in spamming it and they stopped timing it out, great solidarity fadam posted:Just awful handwriting. Look at that S in trans. It's a British S.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:44
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LifeLynx posted:Is there any proof that the financial decision makers at Hasbro/WotC are hurting over this Oko business, or any bad decision WotC has made this year? I don't see anyone boycotting or quitting Magic. Not sure if I'm being overly cynical about things changing for the better. The numbers show that people are still overwhelmingly playing whatever UGx Oko variation, which means a lot of boxes opened. Can't imagine they'd be mad about that. People are complaining about Standard being lovely but people always complain about Standard being lovely. The biggest tell is the SCG tournament going from Standard to Pioneer, but even that could be handwaved away as "oh Pioneer is just super popular" (which it is). The money will be the biggest factor, but they have to weigh that against burning up all the good will they've accrued from the very positive reception of the last 3 or 4 sets. Also, again, Pioneer is super popular and probably being more well received than they expected, so people who maybe get fed up with Standard have somewhere else to jump in the meantime. I agree that it should be banned but I don't think it will be. It's gonna be either Goose or Nissa or nothing, with some sort of announcement that they're "monitoring the situation" and a disclaimer that an Oko-hoser or otherwise format-disrupting card will come along in 2 Theros 2 Furious to right the ship. Comedy option: Oko banned in all formats EXCEPT Standard, Veil of Summer banned in Standard.  Big Ol Marsh Pussy posted:masuqes/invasion blue skies was the best bad deck  I almost top 8-d a Regionals with Blue Skies. Loved that deck.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:45
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Ironically I think Goose gets the axe because Oko is the actual golden goose.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:59
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Owlbear Camus posted:Ironically I think Goose gets the axe because Oko is the actual golden goose. they usually ban the engine and not the payoff the problem is that the payoff is only 3cmc also lol at wizards trying to be progressive and then shutting down people saying trans rights are human rights in tyool 2019
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Nov 9, 2019 03:02
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Toshimo posted:I suggest you read it again. Nah, this is a bizarre call. While it's technically true that tournament officials have authority over altered cards, that doesn't mean people can't have expectations about what's allowed. As a TO I have final say over all materials with any kind of message on them, but it's a big burden on players to have cards that don't fall explicitly afoul of the guidelines prohibited. To have WOTC TOs cracking down on a card I would snap allow in my shop - and in fact that I'd arguably be against WPN policies if I didn't - is bizarre. I'm not at all surprised Autumn is upset here, and I'm upset here. No one thinks corporations are inclusive out of benevolence, but their inclusive policies have been a huge boon to building my store community and if they don't pull this back it'll hurt it, for no readily apparent gain. No fascist jerks are going to like them after years of supporting this stuff.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:43
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How often have written messages of any kind been present in alters in tournaments like this? I don't watch a lot of coverage, so I really wouldn't know. Is there a track record of phrases previously allowed or nixed?
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Nov 9, 2019 03:50
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odiv posted:How often have written messages of any kind been present in alters in tournaments like this? I don't watch a lot of coverage, so I really wouldn't know. Is there a track record of phrases previously allowed or nixed? Dunno about the PT/MC, but I saw lots of word balloon alters as a PTQ TO, the vast majority being totally fine. (There's always that one person with cusses who thinks it's okay because it's a pop culture joke, or with a lewd anime playmat that they think is okay because there aren't visible nipples, or whatever, but that's more common at the store level.)
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Nov 9, 2019 03:57
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odiv posted:How often have written messages of any kind been present in alters in tournaments like this? I don't watch a lot of coverage, so I really wouldn't know. Is there a track record of phrases previously allowed or nixed? It's pretty rare, outside of proxied cards like "NEXUS OF FATE" on a basic mountain. If you've ever heard the expression "Every rule has a story behind it", that's what's happening in real yime right here. The only reason the rules aren't explicit about what's allowed is a very simple one: It's never really come up before. Autumn is in the right in everything they said, but Wizards reserves the final say on people making statements with their cards. Going forward, i'd expect them to simply not allow statements at all at Pro REL, which.. i'm surprised wasn't the case before.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:59
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My only concern would be that people often use lands with poo poo written on them as proxies so to have them in play could be confusing at a glance, but that's only really relevant for casual and playtesting. If wotc routinely allows cards with text like this and are just pulling them out because it's "political" or some poo poo, then gently caress them.
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Nov 9, 2019 04:01
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Niton posted:It's pretty rare, outside of proxied cards like "NEXUS OF FATE" on a basic mountain. If you've ever heard the expression "Every rule has a story behind it", that's what's happening in real yime right here. The only reason the rules aren't explicit about what's allowed is a very simple one: It's never really come up before. I mean this is pretty weak, just because it in fact does come up a lot at levels up to the qualifiers and SCG level (and I know those folks play GPs too). So while it's true they don't currently have a special rule for broadcast events, that doesn't mean there's no precedent - these cards are straightforwardly allowed at all other levels. Again we're not talking about a company that's afraid to come down on a side on this one - being inclusive is a key component of being a WPN store and advancement to WPN premium. If I were to make trans folks unwelcome in my store, I'd be kicked out of the WPN. Maybe if you look at it from a super paranoid perspective the anti-TERF one is controversial, but "trans rights are human rights" is very close to just being WPN policy, so disallowing that card is inexplicable. And if it were just a case of "we want unaltered cards for camera visibility," they could easily have told Autumn to just swap their lands for camera matches and explain the reason, and it'd never even have been objectionable - no reason to disallow them for the whole event.
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Nov 9, 2019 04:05
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Ultiville posted:I mean this is pretty weak, just because it in fact does come up a lot at levels up to the qualifiers and SCG level (and I know those folks play GPs too). So while it's true they don't currently have a special rule for broadcast events, that doesn't mean there's no precedent - these cards are straightforwardly allowed at all other levels. I mean, you're right that Wizards isn't lacking precedent in a broad way - there are plenty of Competitive REL events that have had players on and off camera with altered cards. To my knowledge, though, this is the first time someone has showed up to a Comp/Pro REL event with political messages stated in plain text. The fact that any reasonable person should agree with them is frustrating, but immaterial - after all, a sizable minority of the United States would angrily tell you how wrong Autumn was for making those statements while complaining that THEIR common sense is still disallowed. The specifics of who it happened to are a direct result of their choice, and while I wish the initial slapdown was on a MAGA type, I think it's ultimately for the best if Wizards amends policy going forward, while also explicitly saying they have no problems as an organization with Autumn's specific message.
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Nov 9, 2019 04:34
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Niton posted:To my knowledge, though, this is the first time someone has showed up to a Comp/Pro REL event with political messages stated in plain text. Has anyone shown up with ads written on cards? Or just like "Hi Mom?" or anything like that?
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Nov 9, 2019 04:40
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Niton posted:I mean, you're right that Wizards isn't lacking precedent in a broad way - there are plenty of Competitive REL events that have had players on and off camera with altered cards. To my knowledge, though, this is the first time someone has showed up to a Comp/Pro REL event with political messages stated in plain text. The fact that any reasonable person should agree with them is frustrating, but immaterial - after all, a sizable minority of the United States would angrily tell you how wrong Autumn was for making those statements while complaining that THEIR common sense is still disallowed. https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312?s=20
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Nov 9, 2019 04:40
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WotC doesn't tend to put out statements over the weekend so I wouldn't expect any clarification before Monday, if ever.
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Nov 9, 2019 04:48
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Niton posted:I mean, you're right that Wizards isn't lacking precedent in a broad way - there are plenty of Competitive REL events that have had players on and off camera with altered cards. To my knowledge, though, this is the first time someone has showed up to a Comp/Pro REL event with political messages stated in plain text. The fact that any reasonable person should agree with them is frustrating, but immaterial - after all, a sizable minority of the United States would angrily tell you how wrong Autumn was for making those statements while complaining that THEIR common sense is still disallowed. They could also say that Autumn’s message is in line with their values and MAGA isn’t, and in fact they’ve organizationally done that. It’s certainly in their rights to do what you suggest, but it isn’t necessary. And it’d be a harmful action at odds with their other recent history. There are also probably ways to set this up so that it’s not allowed going forward that wouldn’t be too objectionable. But doing it mid-event combined with LST wearing the Hong Kong protest mask without objection or policy change what, three weeks ago, is a terrible look.
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Nov 9, 2019 04:48
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ItBreathes posted:WotC doesn't tend to put out statements over the weekend so I wouldn't expect any clarification before Monday, if ever. They sometimes address stuff like this in the broadcast, like if there’s a high-profile DQ or something. A statement from the desk tomorrow isn’t that unlikely.
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Nov 9, 2019 04:50
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Yeah somebody jumped the gun here and took the hardline approach in a situation that obviously didn't warrant it but I doubt there will be any sort of substantive response beyond some COMPREL rules clarification on alters or whatever.
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Nov 9, 2019 04:51
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I firmly believe that those trying to justify WOTC's action on this one have some soul searching to do. "Well I can see why....." No, just stop.
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Nov 9, 2019 04:53
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Sickening posted:I firmly believe that those trying to justify WOTC's action on this one have some soul searching to do. "Well I can see why....." Yeah that dril tweet was perfect, well played
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Nov 9, 2019 05:01
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It's because Wizards has been so inclusive and supporting of trans rights completely and utterly that I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about this. Maybe they just don't want giant words scrawled across their cards at a Mythic Championship - is there a precedent for that? Anyone else ever have non-strategic advice written on their cards in big bold letters at a high profile event? There was no context to the Twitter post as far as what the discussion was, and they didn't even come back and say it wasn't judges until about two hours later. Like I'm eyeing the pitchfork, but I'm not breaking it out of its case yet.
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Nov 9, 2019 05:07
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odiv posted:What about messages of any kind in writing that's not part of alter art? I have no idea who i'd even ask to find something like that out. My guess is no, because it seems like any incident would constitute fairly major drama and i've been plugged into tournament magic for many years. LifeLynx posted:It's because Wizards has been so inclusive and supporting of trans rights completely and utterly that I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about this. Maybe they just don't want giant words scrawled across their cards at a Mythic Championship - is there a precedent for that? Anyone else ever have non-strategic advice written on their cards in big bold letters at a high profile event? There was no context to the Twitter post as far as what the discussion was, and they didn't even come back and say it wasn't judges until about two hours later. Like I'm eyeing the pitchfork, but I'm not breaking it out of its case yet. Thank you, you put this reply a lot better (and kinder) than I would have been able to. This feels like an application of Hanlon's Razor - that they were insufficiently aware of optics, even though they felt that written messages had no place on camera at pro Rl.
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Nov 9, 2019 05:11
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WotC can suck my ladyballs with this poo poo
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Nov 9, 2019 05:11
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Niton posted:I have no idea who i'd even ask to find something like that out. My guess is no, because it seems like any incident would constitute fairly major drama and i've been plugged into tournament magic for many years. Yeah massive company that has made a big deal out of being inclusive to look good to get more money has no concept of the optics
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Nov 9, 2019 05:12
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LifeLynx posted:It's because Wizards has been so inclusive and supporting of trans rights completely and utterly that I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about this. Maybe they just don't want giant words scrawled across their cards at a Mythic Championship - is there a precedent for that? Anyone else ever have non-strategic advice written on their cards in big bold letters at a high profile event? There was no context to the Twitter post as far as what the discussion was, and they didn't even come back and say it wasn't judges until about two hours later. Like I'm eyeing the pitchfork, but I'm not breaking it out of its case yet. Sure, I’m willing to believe this is a mistake that they will trot back, but it’s certainly bad enough to call them on it. I think if they’d just said they don’t want cards with writing on them on camera, it’s unlikely it would have gone down like this, especially if they’d communicated it well. But if no one were complaining, they’d be unlikely to address it, and I think it’s important that they do. So sure, they can recover it pretty easily, but they really really should, and making a fuss about it helps increase the odds they do.
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Nov 9, 2019 05:14
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IDK this certainly wouldn't be the first time that a company that publicly toots it's own horn about being progressive refuses to put its money where its mouth is when it counts. It's very low-effort to make some random character trans and then post about it on Twitter and publish press releases and give podcast interviews patting themselves on the back for inclusiveness while collecting profits from guilty libs and people who unironically post stuff like this:LifeLynx posted:It's because Wizards has been so inclusive and supporting of trans rights completely and utterly that I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about this. Actually allowing one of your more popular players to publicly make meaningful political statements that simultaneously bash one of your franchise's most prolific artists actually takes guts and a willingness to piss bad people off. I suspect they'll make some announcement tomorrow about how MTG is for everyone and they want to keep politics out of it blah blah blah, people in this thread and on Twitter will be mad and forget about it in a week when something else that's controversial happens, and in the novelization to Return to Theros Elspeth will be in an ace WLW relationship with Thassa and WotC and the internet will literally be there for it and screaming. Comedy answer is they didn't let Autumn use the cards because the penmanship looks like it's from the note the serial killer wrote in that Snowman movie. 
fadam fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Nov 9, 2019 |
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Nov 9, 2019 05:24
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Wait is Terese a terf Is that a thing What's going on here
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Nov 9, 2019 05:29
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Wait is Terese a terf Yeah, big time. GerryT collected a lot of good boy points by posting a video of him scribbling marker over the art on some of her Force of Wills before a legacy tournament a few months ago, which is where I think most people learned about it. For a while she was in that weird Gordon Hayward space where she was really into MAGA Twitter and Q poo poo (I think), but she really blossomed into a psycho over the past year or so.
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Nov 9, 2019 05:30
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Ultiville posted:Sure, I’m willing to believe this is a mistake that they will trot back, but it’s certainly bad enough to call them on it. I think if they’d just said they don’t want cards with writing on them on camera, it’s unlikely it would have gone down like this, especially if they’d communicated it well. But if no one were complaining, they’d be unlikely to address it, and I think it’s important that they do. So sure, they can recover it pretty easily, but they really really should, and making a fuss about it helps increase the odds they do. This is all spot-on. Even though it happened during the coverage rounds, Autumn's still the only person we've heard anything from, and it's a simple but very stupid mistake on Wizards' part to not have an immediate explanation and reaffirmation on hand. I 100% support Autumn and their right to say what they said, but it's also fair for wizards to want a blanket neutral policy on visible / written, text. They just, uh.. well, i'm going to quote twitter about Today's other Drama: https://twitter.com/moxperidot/status/1192862588868149249 (e: corrected url, twitter not wanting me to copy tonight) BENGHAZI 2 posted:Wait is Terese a terf Yes, she's a hard-right lesbian with TERF (or so terf-adjacent that they're indistinguishable) views.
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Nov 9, 2019 05:31
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What’s confusing is that they do put their money where there mouth is to some extent. They’ve banned stores from the WPN for bigotry, and that absolutely does cost them money in the short term. Corporate entities aren’t moral, of course, and much of the justification for their stance is no doubt practical, but even in that context this is confusing. They let a clear anti-China protest go very recently, and have consistently taken stances that enraged the bigoted sections of their fan bases. They can of course always do better, but I’m surprised by a fumble this basic. It’s one thing not to clean house of the senior D&D folks who courted awful people in the lead in to 5e, it’s quite another to prevent your most prominent trans and non-binary player from making a statement you’ve for the most part endorsed not just in print but in WPN and tournament policy.
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Nov 9, 2019 05:32
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