UKMT November 2019 - Andrew Can't Denounce Epstein Properly

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT November 2019 - Andrew Can't Denounce Epstein Properly

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Ursine Catastrophe: Nov 9, 2009; It's a lovely morning in the void and you are a horrible lady-in-waiting.

don't ask how i know; Dinosaur Gum

crispix posted:

If we lose this election we lose everything, don't we?

poo poo would get worse for longer before getting better, because people will have shown their collective tolerance for poo poo is even higher than the current level of poo poo and things need to be worse to motivate them to action. Things would still have a chance to be better...eventually. That will be cold comfort for the additional people dying under the tories that wouldn't under labor, but it also wouldn't be cause to throw your hands up and say "well, we're all hosed then" and give up entirely, either.

e: What a depressing snipe, here is what is probably at least 112 kittens

Ursine Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Nov 9, 2019

# ? Nov 9, 2019 06:00

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# ? May 26, 2024 19:35

Azza Bamboo: Apr 7, 2018; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

The billionaires are all threatening that if Labour wins they'll gently caress off into the sea

Can we not threaten something if Boris wins?

The formation of one national Union for all industries and the threat of general strikes or something

# ? Nov 9, 2019 06:12

Poison Jam: Mar 29, 2009; Shh...
We're being watched.

Morning you beautiful bastards. It�s too cold to get out of bed to turn the heater on to get changed. I�m in a pickle. Help, I need an adult

Tories delenda est

# ? Nov 9, 2019 06:25

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Azza Bamboo posted:

The billionaires are all threatening that if Labour wins they'll gently caress off into the sea

Can we not threaten something if Boris wins?

The formation of one national Union for all industries and the threat of general strikes or something

Of Boris wins the billionaires might stay.

# ? Nov 9, 2019 06:34

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

crispix posted:

If we lose this election we lose everything, don't we?

If we lose this one it's going to be bad. But it wouldn't be the end. It's never over, there's no final victory, not for us and not for them either. If we lose, then we commisserate, we get shitfaced drunk, we mourn those who are going to suffer in the coming years because of tory policies, and then we get back up and keep fighting.

But I don't think we're going to lose. The difference in energy between Labour and the Conservatives is vast, Farage is sounding ready to send his saboteurs out and even a couple of points siphoned away from the tories would help tremendously in a lot of seats, and Labour has built an increasingly effective ground game that's looking like it's really ramping up to something massive. And on everything outside promising brexit to the brexiteers, the tories are on the back foot - we've more-or-less won the argument that public spending is good and austerity has to end. The tories are lying, of course, but the fact that they think they need to lie shows that they've conceded the core argument. And if you really want public spending and sensible taxes on the ultra-wealthy then who is going to choose them over Labour?

# ? Nov 9, 2019 06:42

Apraxin: Feb 22, 2006; General-Admiral

Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:

i was reading the grenfell report earlier, it goes out of the way to mention the gas pipes not being a reason for the fire spread despite earlier indications. they still had the pipework exposed and not boxed in months after the refurb though, but that's decorative and more a sign of shoddy workmanship than changing the hazard of it all. nothing about the pipes being in the stairwell (i do vaguely recall that mentioned at the time), and the report does praise a specific engineer for cutting the supply which was the fuel source after everything else had failed around it

mentioned it elsewhere but the stage 1 report - despite the news articles trying to flay the fire department - is more focused on the control room being understaffed and procedures for staying on the line until the person is rescued not adding up to the amount of calls coming in. keep in mind stage 1 focuses on night of fire and response, meaning the inquiry can't say what lead up to them being in that state until stage 2

there was also communication issues on the ground between fire/police/ambulance (they were deciding if was a major incident of not 30m between each other but not telling anyone else). no sharing of info between the control room personnel of the status of each room (and it not getting fed back to ground crew). they were unprepared for dealing with a high-rise that should have had compartmentalisation failing and no one with authority was making the call to call off the stay-put order (~50m after the fire started is the judgement in hindsight of the paper when the fire was clearly out of control, but stay-put was called off over 1.5h later)

the main point of the inquiry is in stage 2 though, this seemed aimed at delving into the minute-by-minute response of a crisis scenario and it's not surprising that things didn't go to plan

that's just off memory though so have a read of vol. 1 and 4: https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/phase-1-report

This is from a couple of days back, but thanks so much for the link to the report, I've been going through it since it was posted (it's massive). I know we've all (justifiably) focused on the owners and all their monstrous neglect that caused this to happen, but ever since the fire I've kept coming back to this interview with a distraught survivor about how he was rescued by firefighters but his brother who was with him in the same flat was left behind:
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/875437370178285568
Several hundred pages into the report there's a description of the failed evacuation of the 14th floor. It's apparently being left for the follow-up inquiry to go into in more detail, but it sounds like there was a really bad gently caress-up and people were essentially left behind to die:

# ? Nov 9, 2019 07:39

Pesmerga: Aug 1, 2005; So nice to eat you

Apraxin posted:

This is from a couple of days back, but thanks so much for the link to the report, I've been going through it since it was posted (it's massive). I know we've all (justifiably) focused on the owners and all their monstrous neglect that caused this to happen, but ever since the fire I've kept coming back to this interview with a distraught survivor about how he was rescued by firefighters but his brother who was with him in the same flat was left behind:
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/875437370178285568
Several hundred pages into the report there's a description of the failed evacuation of the 14th floor. It's apparently being left for the follow-up inquiry to go into in more detail, but it sounds like there was a really bad gently caress-up and people were essentially left behind to die:

Christ that's bleak.

On another note, does it seem to anyone else that the Guardian in particular is being particularly brazen in its attacks on Labour right now?

# ? Nov 9, 2019 08:36

Poison Jam: Mar 29, 2009; Shh...
We're being watched.

Well I just cried first thing in the morning

That's horrifying

Tories delenda est

# ? Nov 9, 2019 08:52

Apraxin: Feb 22, 2006; General-Admiral

crispix posted:

If we lose this election we lose everything, don't we?

More or less, but hey, in the long run:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlOxHjqRQOo

# ? Nov 9, 2019 09:01

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

So I'm reading the history of China and I got to WW1. And uh Brits. China is going to get you back for all this. They held a grudge against an emperor for like 400 years because he had the wrong last name.

Somewhere in the year 2200 when China owns 300 of the worlds 340 Aircraft Carriers they're going sail on up and just turn London into a saltwater lake

# ? Nov 9, 2019 09:05

Gum: Mar 9, 2008; _{oho, a rapist

time to try this puppy out}

Eschenique posted:

So I'm reading the history of China and I got to WW1. And uh Brits. China is going to get you back for all this. They held a grudge against an emperor for like 400 years because he had the wrong last name.

Somewhere in the year 2200 when China owns 300 of the worlds 340 Aircraft Carriers they're going sail on up and just turn London into a saltwater lake

get in line lol

# ? Nov 9, 2019 09:28

Jippa: Feb 13, 2009

(Sorry if this is a repost the ukmt is barrelling along).

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1192857884796870656

# ? Nov 9, 2019 09:35

CGI Stardust: Nov 7, 2010; Brexit is but a door,
election time is but a window.

I'll be back

crispix posted:

If we lose this election we lose everything, don't we?

It wouldn't be good. I think the left would probably have to switch to building parallel institutions on both local and national levels rather than relying solely on Labour internal party politics to get the job done, since the wreckers would be going off all over the place (although that needs to happen anyway to ensure Labour is continually pulled left and held accountable by things outside itself). Also, that's 5 years less to start sorting out the climate and environment, since the Tories probably won't do anything - US-aligned low tax and low regulation doesn't look good in that respect

Eschenique posted:

So I'm reading the history of China and I got to WW1. And uh Brits. China is going to get you back for all this. They held a grudge against an emperor for like 400 years because he had the wrong last name.

Somewhere in the year 2200 when China owns 300 of the worlds 340 Aircraft Carriers they're going sail on up and just turn London into a saltwater lake

The good news is that it's going to be difficult to turn London into a saltwater lake when it's already part of the ocean, hooray

# ? Nov 9, 2019 09:47

Apraxin: Feb 22, 2006; General-Admiral

Oh, another thing from the Grenfell report - Whirlpool trying to convince the inquiry that instead of a fault in their fridge-freezer, the initial fire was caused by someone throwing a lit cigarette from the upper floors that bounced into the 4th floor window and ignited hypothetical inflammable substances on the floor:

# ? Nov 9, 2019 09:51

Doccykins: Feb 21, 2006

lmao if you want to see Farage in Ashfield today the price of admission is £2.50

Haha just googled it and it's the price of admission to any brexit party rally

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-brexit-party-general-election-tour-tickets-80444420427

Doccykins fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Nov 9, 2019

# ? Nov 9, 2019 09:55

XMNN: Apr 26, 2008; I am incredibly stupid

if anyone was wondering how long it would take freedland to go from getting called out for smearing people as antisemitic to doing it again then you can stop because the answer is "less than 24 hours"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/09/jews-brexit-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn

apparently Jeremy Corbyn is literally Hitler, who knew?

e: by which I mean he will quite literally start putting Jews in death camps

an gobshite posted:

I understand that to many, all this will sound overwrought. I’m afraid that Jewish history has made us that way, prone to imagining the worst. We look at our usually sparse family trees and we can pick out the pessimists, those who panicked and got out. It was they who left their mark on us. You see, the optimists, those who assumed things would work out for the best, they never made it out in time.

XMNN fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Nov 9, 2019

# ? Nov 9, 2019 10:05

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

More journalists spreading shite from a "trusted labour source"
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1192595151115476992?s=20

# ? Nov 9, 2019 10:07

RockyB: Mar 8, 2007; Dog Therapy: Shockingly Good

Open the goddamn comments, coward.

Of course he won't, he knows he'll get bodied in the replies.

E: This is fairly insightful: http://normanfinkelstein.com/2016/05/27/jonathan-freedland-keeps-digging-how-low-will-he-go/
And this really needs updating for the current election: https://www.mediareform.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Labour-anti-semitism-and-the-news-EXEC-SUM-FINAL-PROOFED.pdf

I just don't get how the guardian can justify continuing to give a platform to these disingenuous smears, unless we go back to 'MI5 had a word' theory.

RockyB fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Nov 9, 2019

# ? Nov 9, 2019 10:08

LeafyGreens: May 9, 2009; the elegant cephalopod

Family members who aren�t normally political have been messaging me lately to complain about the lack of balance on tv in general when it comes to Corbyn, apparently Gogglebox and Graham Norton were taking shots at him and Swinson but after Boris� terrible week nout was mentioned. I figured during election time this would be less common, but I guess comedy shows aren�t subject to the same rules?

It�s poo poo but it also feels good that people who don�t care are starting to notice!

# ? Nov 9, 2019 10:09

CGI Stardust: Nov 7, 2010; Brexit is but a door,
election time is but a window.

I'll be back

XMNN posted:

if anyone was wondering how long it would take freedland to go from getting called out for smearing people as antisemitic to doing it again then you can stop because the answer is "less than 24 hours"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/09/jews-brexit-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn

apparently Jeremy Corbyn is literally Hitler, who knew?

e: by which I mean he will quite literally start putting Jews in death camps

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

yes, Jonathan, it does "sound overwrought". if you want to "imagine the worst", we're coming up to a choice between ecofascism / hard-right climate authoritarianism and maybe a future that's slightly less likely to be poo poo, and you keep telling people that the latter is bad. do you think jews will be welcome in the ecofascist hellscape, Jonathan, because i very much think they will not be

corbyn is not hitler. corbyn is not stalin. corbyn is not going to cause anti-Jewish sentiment to rise, or trigger pogroms. your actions here might lead to those things in future after you've helped destroy the political side that has the best chance of stopping them from happening

(sorry, i'm getting mad online and offline)

# ? Nov 9, 2019 10:26

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

https://twitter.com/RogerQuimbly/status/912605748479320064?s=20

# ? Nov 9, 2019 10:29

Vitamin P: Nov 19, 2013; Truth is game rigging is more difficult than it looks pls stay ded

XMNN posted:

if anyone was wondering how long it would take freedland to go from getting called out for smearing people as antisemitic to doing it again then you can stop because the answer is "less than 24 hours"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/09/jews-brexit-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn

Not Freedland personally, he's a oval office, but I do feel really bad for like young Jewish people that have been bombarded with this stuff for years now. There's so much sound about it (although usually soundbites now, some melt adds 'and anti-semitism' to the end of a sentence) it would be impossible not to be affected and legitimately feel vulnerable or scared or just ignored, like why are the people who usually care about vulnerable groups not listening to you? Especially because the anti-semitism charges are legitimately weak and the key critique is so shifting, and it essentially requires being against this strong movement for disabled care, the NHS, helping an entire generation of young people who have been concretely shafted get a fair chance, it must just suck to feel excluded from something so real.

To be clear I think the ongoing anti-semitism story is a textbook example of a smear campaign, 90% of time it's being used absolutely cynically, and while it sort of sucks for us I think there's a lot of young Jewish people it must really, really loving suck for.

# ? Nov 9, 2019 10:40

RockyB: Mar 8, 2007; Dog Therapy: Shockingly Good

Oh right I knew I had this saved in my bookmarks somewhere:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/first-time-my-life-im-frightened-be-jewish/

David Graeber, in the article he somehow couldn't get published anywhere for some reason

quote:

The problem is that exploiting Jewish issues in ways guaranteed to create rancor, panic, and resentment is itself a form of antisemitism. (This is true whether or not the architects are fully aware of what they're doing.) It creates terror in the Jewish community. It deprives us of our strongest allies. If one were actively trying to create ill-feeling towards Jewish people on the left, then surely purges, sensationalized denunciations in the media, wild exaggerations, and the endless twisting around of words (a skilled propagandist can after all prove anything � if I wanted to cherry-pick quotes, I'm sure I could demonstrate that Margaret Thatcher was a Communist or the Pope is anti-Catholic), would be the best way to go about it.

# ? Nov 9, 2019 10:41

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

https://twitter.com/callummay/status/1193101151320903685?s=19

# ? Nov 9, 2019 10:44

Bardeh: Dec 2, 2004; Fun Shoe

So the centrepiece lib dem policy is free childcare for all kids at 9 months upwards. In itself, that sounds like a good policy.

But the way Swinson couches it just sounds gross:

quote:

It will finally give parents more choice about when they return to work and unlock their untapped potential for our economy.

Instead of dealing with the root cause of being forced to palm your children off to strangers so you can pay the bills, they want to double down on it. :sigh:

# ? Nov 9, 2019 10:58

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:03

Red Oktober: May 24, 2006; wiggly eyes!

^^^ yes

Jose posted:

https://twitter.com/callummay/status/1193101151320903685?s=19

Great use of the passive voice there. drat that pornography appearing.

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:10

Venomous: Nov 7, 2011

Diet Crack posted:

With soft jazz and turbofolk

You'll get free jazz and folk punk and you'll like it :colbert:

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:26

Braggart: Nov 10, 2011; always thank the rock hider

TheRat posted:

Hug a Hoodie

Pet a hoodieS A GOOD BOY :3:

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:28

Beefeater1980: Sep 12, 2008; My God, it's full of Horatios!

Ms Adequate posted:

As usual, a great many problems would be solved by mandating chastity belts on everyone.

Literally all problems, after about 70 years or so.

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:29

Aphex-: Jan 29, 2006; Dinosaur Gum

If we lose this election by getting a Tory majority it'll be bad, but what happens if it's another hung parliament? Same as the last two years? It's going to be madness if that's the case.

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:33

Braggart: Nov 10, 2011; always thank the rock hider

Debbie Does Dagon posted:

Can someone meme Corbyn as Jason Voorhees slaying Boris on Friday the 13th?

Corbyn with Edward Scissorhandshands dancing around a fearful Boris Johnson, tidying up his hair.

Just after Blojo messes it up for the cameras

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:39

Reveilled: Apr 19, 2007; Take up your rifles

Red Oktober posted:

^^^ yes

Great use of the passive voice there. drat that pornography appearing.

That...doesn't really sound like the passive voice to me? There's no auxiliary verb. "Pornography appeared on the screen" is an active sentence, it's Subject-verb-object. "The poor were murdered by tory austerity" is passive voice because it goes Object-verb-subject via the auxiliary verb "were".

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:42

Braggart: Nov 10, 2011; always thank the rock hider

Ursine Catastrophe posted:

e: What a depressing snipe, here is what is probably at least 112 kittens

101 Dalmatians reboot looking :kimchi:

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:43

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Jose posted:

https://twitter.com/callummay/status/1193101151320903685?s=19

I see they brought out the "it must have been a virus" excuse, making one of its rare public appearances since 2005.

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:45

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

Reveilled posted:

That...doesn't really sound like the passive voice to me? There's no auxiliary verb. "Pornography appeared on the screen" is an active sentence, it's Subject-verb-object. "The poor were murdered by tory austerity" is passive voice because it goes Object-verb-subject via the auxiliary verb "were".

Yes, it's actually worse than the passive voice, in that "Pornography was put onto the screen" merely avoids mentioning who was responsible while "Pornography appeared on the screen" ignores the possibility that there even was anyone responsible to avoid mentioning.

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:46

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

Eschenique posted:

https://twitter.com/RogerQuimbly/status/912605748479320064?s=20

That is way too dry for the frog exhibit

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:51

Wiggly Wayne DDS: Sep 11, 2010

Apraxin posted:

Oh, another thing from the Grenfell report - Whirlpool trying to convince the inquiry that instead of a fault in their fridge-freezer, the initial fire was caused by someone throwing a lit cigarette from the upper floors that bounced into the 4th floor window and ignited hypothetical inflammable substances on the floor:

yeah and a further read mentioned the new gas riser in the stairwell:

quote:

24.27, partial excerpt:
b. Through the uncompleted boxing protecting the new gas riser in the stairs, which contained oversized holes on the lobby side which had not been fire-stopped. Dr Lane was very concerned about the potential for smoke to spread from one lobby to another through the boxing, although she was unable to form a final view about that at this stage.

all of chapter 31: Isolating the Tower from the Gas Supply is a great read as well, some excerpts:

quote:

31.8
It was not until later in the day, at some time between 14.00 and 15.00, that Jason Allday became aware that the LFB was concerned about gas burning inside the tower, when orange flames, which appeared to be fed by gas, could be seen in some compartments. That was consistent with his own view that it was not until that stage that gas had been contributing to fires in the tower.

31.9
At around 14.00 Jason Allday was asked by the LFB for the first time whether there were any valves in the building which could be used to shut off the gas. After consulting his colleagues, he explained that there were four risers in the building serving the residential flats, with a separate gas supply for the communal boilers. The LFB asked him whether he was prepared to go into the basement to try to operate the valves to shut off the risers. That was the first time he had considered entering the basement because up to that point burning debris falling from the building had made it impossible to approach it. At around 15.50, Jason Allday and Patrick Kelly, a member of the contract management team at Cadent, approached the basement together with three LFB officers. In order to gain access to the entrance door on the east side of the tower, they were escorted by LFB officers carrying riot shields to protect them against the risk of falling debris.

31.10
Once inside the basement Jason Allday was able to identify three of the four gas risers, which were located in the corners of the room with valves at a high level, but conditions in the building prevented him from carrying out anything more than a cursory inspection. There was a significant quantity of water present and he realised that the electricity was still on, which immediately gave him cause for concern. Apart from that, after no more than 5 minutes, the LFB advised everyone to leave the building because there were fears that it was about to collapse. In those circumstances it was not possible for him to try closing the valves, which would have involved taking ladders down into the basement to enable people to climb up to them. The risk to life posed by the conditions in the basement made that impossible. (When later that evening at around 20.15 the LFB asked Jason Allday to consider re-entering the basement, he declined to do so in view of the serious risks to safety, a decision which was supported by his line manager, Tony Day.)

...
[rush to dig and isolate 3 main pipes to the building nearby]
...

31.13
When the gas was cut off at 23.40, Jason Allday described seeing the flames in the tower die down almost immediately, demonstrating the contribution that gas had been making to the fires at that time. He remained on hand to supervise the permanent work on the pipe beneath Station Walk and eventually left at 07.15, having been on site for around 24 hours.

once against stage 1 only focuses on the night of the fire and response. stage 2 will tackle the failures in management and responsibilities of everyone that got the tower into that state, although stage 1 has some strong recommendations to start with (which are unlikely to be ignored like leveson's findings...)

Wiggly Wayne DDS fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Nov 9, 2019

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:52

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

Angepain posted:

Yes, it's actually worse than the passive voice, in that "Pornography was put onto the screen" merely avoids mentioning who was responsible while "Pornography appeared on the screen" ignores the possibility that there even was anyone responsible to avoid mentioning.

To be fair "putting" it on the screen suggests some intent. I'm sure the contractor involved didn't intend for their porn to appear and scupper their lucrative council contract. Maybe "contractor allows porn to be seen at council meeting" would be better

Or we could even go with

"LABOUR council watches porn at meeting!!!"

# ? Nov 9, 2019 11:59

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# ? May 26, 2024 19:35

Bobby Deluxe: May 9, 2004

The Deleter posted:

Bullfrog and X-Com I'll agree with. I miss Dungeon Keeper. My cousin got it for me when I was a kid and way too young to be viewing all of the cartoon blood everywhere, and it owned.

Do not play the mobile Dungeon Keeper, it's a hollowed out shell of its former self. I know it's an EA mobile game but I don't think I've ever seen every aspect of a game so cynically twisted by greed as DK mobile.

Ursine Catastrophe posted:

poo poo would get worse for longer before getting better, because people will have shown their collective tolerance for poo poo is even higher than the current level of poo poo and things need to be worse to motivate them to action. Things would still have a chance to be better...eventually. That will be cold comfort for the additional people dying under the tories that wouldn't under labor, but it also wouldn't be cause to throw your hands up and say "well, we're all hosed then" and give up entirely, either.

I don't think this is fully acknowledging how bad things could (and likely would) get though. There are a huge number of protections afforded by the EU to workers, minorities, even the blanket term human rights is under threat. The right to fair elections.

We've seen what Cummings and dePfeffel are willing to do under the promise of leaving the EU, and the only reason there's any splashback is because it's all concentrated in such a short timeframe. If they pulled these brain genius tricks at a rate of once a month during parliamentary normality, they'd probably get away with it because there'd be no Letwin, no Maugham et al to launch quick legal challenges, fewer members of the public scrutinising everything for loopholes.

I get what you're saying; that it's not over, but I don't think you're really acknowledging how bad things will get post brexit. If Labour doesn't win this specific election, the rules are going to change so much that it's not just a case of 'vote Tory for more of the same;' I genuinely think that things will get much, much worse if the Tories get a majority. Not just in terms of quality of life for anyone less than 500 places away from the throne, but also in terms of the mechanisms keeping political opposition and electoral fairness intact.

# ? Nov 9, 2019 12:01

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT November 2019 - Andrew Can't Denounce Epstein Properly

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