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It does seem like the push to make more cards that are interesting/powerful is always going to lead to situations like this. I think they should just start issuing errata for standard. It's not 1994 anymore, it would be easy to have access to the current errata list, and unless there's a fuckup of monumental proportions you'd have maybe 5 cards on it at any given time. If the kitchen table player doesn't know or use the list who cares? When cards rotate out of standard all errata gets removed and extended formats use bannings, so that way you don't have compounding amounts of errata cards to track. Yeah, it's kinda janky, but sure seems better than suffering through horrible metas for months on end because WotC doesn't want to ban expensive/marquee cards. Crackbone fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 15:00
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Im sympathetic to Gerry T's explanation that Oko is most likely someone higher ups pet card and they basically strong armed it through play design with minimal changes. Possibly as a vanity thing or as a misguided attempt to sell packs but either way play design's hands were tied.
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Nov 10, 2019 15:07
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AnEdgelord posted:Im sympathetic to Gerry T's explanation that Oko is most likely someone higher ups pet card and they basically strong armed it through play design with minimal changes. Possibly as a vanity thing or as a misguided attempt to sell packs but either way play design's hands were tied. I know a similar thing happened with the innistrad emrakul. The card was a culmination of over a year of plot development, so the development team was basically told "you need to make sure this sees play"
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Nov 10, 2019 15:21
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little munchkin posted:I know a similar thing happened with the innistrad emrakul. The card was a culmination of over a year of plot development, so the development team was basically told "you need to make sure this sees play" I don’t think game designers need to be leaned on by management to want to make a legendary cosmic horror interesting and powerful.
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Nov 10, 2019 15:34
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Where has Gerry shared that view because that is not what he’s said on his podcast or YouTube channel.
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Nov 10, 2019 15:52
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Bust Rodd posted:Where has Gerry shared that view because that is not what he’s said on his podcast or YouTube channel. It was the episode before last in the q&a section
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Nov 10, 2019 15:55
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If you want my insight, it probably went a little like this. Originally Questing Beast was going to be a mythic legendary built around well, adventures(quests). When response to War of the Spark was what it was they realised they needed a card that is designed to hate Planeswalkers, so Questing Beast becomes that card because can't have that be anything but a Legendary and it'll be a good pack seller. However this puts them in an awkward position where Oko, who probably was meant to be quite powerful because he's one of the big characters the set is focused on anyway, under his original design loses too hard to the new Planeswalker Hoser. Wizards at this point buff Oko and the rest is history, instead of maybe reverting Questing Beast and finding a better option for how to handle planeswalker hate.
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Nov 10, 2019 15:57
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IMO they wanted food to be a thing. They pushed Oko to do this, and honestly didn't need to. However Gerry has some insider experience so maybe he knows better.
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Nov 10, 2019 15:57
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I really thought what Gerry meant by his response was not that some executive had meddled with the cards per se, simply that the card had been changed too close to release to be tested properly because he knows his friends aren’t stupid enough to have play tested the card and found it to be fine. The “Meddlesome Executive” narrative makes almost no sense at all if you just step back for a minute. Errata is a bad idea. Paper tournaments with complex board states really don’t need cards that work differently than they say they do, especially ones with as many lines of text as Oko. A ban is so much healthier than an errata. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 16:00
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I'm actually legit sad there are no Legendary Creatures that care about Adventures, or that can go on an Adventure. It's such a weird thing to have 0 Legendaries interact with what was supposed to be a defining part of the set/plane. Off the top of my head they could've done a cool adventure for each of the Legendary Knights and cut down their other text to compensate.
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Nov 10, 2019 16:13
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I’m sad almost none of the Adventures have names that sound like adventures, which is the kind of very small thing that bothers me.
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Nov 10, 2019 16:20
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Bust Rodd posted:I really thought what Gerry meant by his response was not that some executive had meddled with the cards per se, simply that the card had been changed too close to release to be tested properly because he knows his friends aren’t stupid enough to have play tested the card and found it to be fine. I and Gerry never said executive, its much more likely its a senior designer throwing their weight around. Plus we know stuff like this has happened before where certain cards are mandated to be pushed despite the potential consequences with Emrakul being the prime example.
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Nov 10, 2019 16:24
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whydirt posted:I don’t think game designers need to be leaned on by management to want to make a legendary cosmic horror interesting and powerful. it was explicitly stated in one of the official post-mordens the did on the set/card
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Nov 10, 2019 17:07
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Niton posted:Independent efforts to specifically push both Green and Simic overlapped with a general push to raise the power level of standard. End result is that all of the colors that weren't specifically pushed can't really compete. Weird, huh? The "oh, and draw a card" rider is perfect because adding a cantrip to a card like this is so obviously intended to be an over-the-top joke, but in the real world it's essentially what they did to Veil of Summer
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Nov 10, 2019 18:42
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On the other hand companies are stupid and don't always know how to make money, but they do think they do and think they can squeeze harder.
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Nov 10, 2019 18:43
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https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/pioneer-ptq-2019-11-10 Pioneer PTQ results. Izzet Ensoul considers to perform! It's time to buy those scissors and Gingerbreadmen. The Mono-B list that won looks like an absolute pile.
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Nov 10, 2019 18:44
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fadam posted:The Mono-B list that won looks like an absolute pile of Thoughtseize It's just Jund
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Nov 10, 2019 19:01
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fadam posted:https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/pioneer-ptq-2019-11-10 Pioneer PTQ results. I think the deck looks like a pile but doesn’t play like one. The deck is strong.
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Nov 10, 2019 19:15
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They errataed a card from one of the Commander sets and now no one plays Commander anymore because it's just too confusing!
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Nov 10, 2019 19:20
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Gonna take this opportunity to repost the mono black list I shared a few pages ago. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2424469#paper In short, yes, some iteration of mono black is real as gently caress. My record with this deck is absurdly good, I've attended every local event that's fired for pioneer so far and have yet to catch a single match loss. My hot take is that Knight of the Ebon Legion and Bloodsoaked Champion are the #1 and #2 best aggressive one-drops in the format, and while obviously a PTQ-winning deck list is quite good I still think I prefer this slightly bigger version. Gray Merchant has been so important for stealing the last few points of damage in close games, I can't imagine playing mono-b without him is correct. Not being on some number of Bile Blight is also a punt, that card is ridiculous.
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Nov 10, 2019 19:25
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is that an Andrew Yang shirt lol
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Nov 10, 2019 19:34
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sit on my Facebook posted:Gonna take this opportunity to repost the mono black list I shared a few pages ago. I agree. The sad thing is that both the vampire and zombie tribal decks just aren’t good enough despite how much I want them to be. The mix of 1 cmc beaters and creatures that recure themselves is just great. The 3 and 4 drops play on that theme for powers results. Rankle is probably a better 4 drop the kalitas right now straight up. It anything the copter might be a weak point of the deck but it’s cute interaction with lookout gives the deck a little reach.
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Nov 10, 2019 19:39
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Sickening posted:Rankle is probably a better 4 drop the kalitas right now straight up This is a good call and I agree. The Kalitas was in there with Phoenix in mind but Rankle seems fantastic
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Nov 10, 2019 19:43
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Sickening posted:I think the deck looks like a pile but doesn’t play like one. The deck is strong. The rankle + recursive creatures seem like a good late game engine vs other creature heavy / low removal decks. Those green splash blue aggressive decks boarding sleep seem gross. Also first time there has been a decent amount of smuggler’s copter decks in the top 8.
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Nov 10, 2019 19:54
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Dehtraen posted:The rankle + recursive creatures seem like a good late game engine vs other creature heavy / low removal decks. The format is going to be like frontier for a bit I think, because the answers aren't great. Aggro will rule the roost for awhile until better answers come up or ppl build answer decks better I think.
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Nov 10, 2019 20:05
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ShaneB posted:The format is going to be like frontier for a bit I think, because the answers aren't great. Aggro will rule the roost for awhile until better answers come up or ppl build answer decks better I think. I'd say it's mostly the latter. The good answers are there, it's just always tough to find the right configuration. Critically, Anger of the Gods and Supreme Verdict exist in this format, Frontier had a dearth of decent sweepers.
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Nov 10, 2019 20:09
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Sickening posted:I agree. The sad thing is that both the vampire and zombie tribal decks just aren’t good enough despite how much I want them to be. The mix of 1 cmc beaters and creatures that recure themselves is just great. The 3 and 4 drops play on that theme for powers results. Rankle is probably a better 4 drop the kalitas right now straight up. Rankle is LotV that punches in against decks with no evasion
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Nov 10, 2019 20:59
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:They errataed a card from one of the Commander sets and now no one plays Commander anymore because it's just too confusing! Oko is legitimately not worth it, try to imagine attempting to fix Oko with a numbers tweak instead of banning it and watching as it continues to dominate across all formats. Errata on Marath is so obviously different than Errata that impacts literally every format currently being played, vs a handful of kitchen tables across the country, it’s just absurd to conflate them.
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Nov 10, 2019 21:05
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JerryLee posted:The "oh, and draw a card" rider is perfect because adding a cantrip to a card like this is so obviously intended to be an over-the-top joke, but in the real world it's essentially what they did to Veil of Summer It really is, isn't it? I hadn't thought about that thing in more than a decade, yet as soon as I saw Veil of Summer.. I knew.
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Nov 10, 2019 21:27
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fatherboxx posted:is that an Andrew Yang shirt lol Not surprised MTG players have bad political views
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Nov 10, 2019 21:52
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TheMaestroso posted:Not surprised MTG players have bad political views magic player, singular. if you're seeing double, lay off the booze
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Nov 10, 2019 21:57
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:They errataed an uncommon card from Core 20and now no one plays Core 20anymore because it's just too confusing! Fixed for truth.
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Nov 10, 2019 22:24
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Bust Rodd posted:Oko is legitimately not worth it, try to imagine attempting to fix Oko with a numbers tweak instead of banning it and watching as it continues to dominate across all formats. One change would be a single digit. The other was a full sentence. PJOmega posted:Fixed for truth. Also Alpha Orcish Oriflamme!
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Nov 10, 2019 22:34
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PV in (another) final
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Nov 10, 2019 22:49
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TheMaestroso posted:Not surprised MTG players have bad political views Please elaborate. 
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Nov 10, 2019 23:07
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Sickening posted:Please elaborate.
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Nov 10, 2019 23:11
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I know goons' political options are idiosyncratic to put it delicately, but lmao if Andrew Yang even registers on your radar as a bad political opinion in 2019
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Nov 10, 2019 23:12
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JerryLee posted:I know goons' political options are idiosyncratic to put it delicately, but lmao if Andrew Yang even registers on your radar as a bad political opinion in 2019
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Nov 10, 2019 23:14
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JerryLee posted:I know goons' political options are idiosyncratic to put it delicately, but lmao if Andrew Yang even registers on your radar as a bad political opinion in 2019 He is a dumbass reddit candidate
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Nov 10, 2019 23:16
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fatherboxx posted:He is a dumbass reddit candidate Yes, I am saying lmao if a loony, effectively third party candidate like him is still on anyone's radar. I know we can laugh at more than one thing at a time, but even so, whatever silliness surrounds him is pretty solidly beneath my notice. E: I want to clarify that when I say loony I mean the yang phenomenon in its aggregate and not every single individual position he may hold. E.g. I think a GMI is a good idea (albeit not as a replacement for social programs generally) but this election isn't its time. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 23:22
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