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I was gonna just tell Hamprince to gently caress off for his lazy-rear end trolling, but claiming that an election was stolen because loving OAS said so is actually kinda hilarious in how brazen it is.
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Nov 11, 2019 01:53
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please keep in mind that hamprince does not hold any beliefs so there's no point engaging with them
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Nov 11, 2019 01:54
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I fell for the OAS bit at first since it was so widely and uncritically reported so I can hardly fault Hamprince on that. It can be difficult to admit you've fallen victim to disinformation, even when you're confronted with evidence of it
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Nov 11, 2019 01:55
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Morales did not dispute the OAS's findings, he tried to weasel his way into a do-over after the monitors made their report.
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Nov 11, 2019 02:00
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im on the net me boys posted:I fell for the OAS bit at first since it was so widely and uncritically reported so I can hardly fault Hamprince on that. It can be difficult to admit you've fallen victim to disinformation, even when you're confronted with evidence of it https://twitter.com/MarkWeisbrot/status/1193644001783623683
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Nov 11, 2019 02:01
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I'll read the thing but can I get a quick rundown on why we hate the OAS as an organization?
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Nov 11, 2019 02:02
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im on the net me boys posted:I fell for the OAS bit at first since it was so widely and uncritically reported so I can hardly fault Hamprince on that. It can be difficult to admit you've fallen victim to disinformation, even when you're confronted with evidence of it Buddy are you unfamiliar with Hamprince's gimmick or something? Also one of the main points of OAS is to facilitate the toppling of leftist leaders in Latin America, and everything they say should be read with that in mind.
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Nov 11, 2019 02:03
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*in an extremely gringo voice, while watching masked soldiers put a bullet in Morales' head and his eyes bulge out grotesquely* Democracy has been protected 
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Nov 11, 2019 02:04
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mila kunis posted:https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1193657983219257344 so is anyone gonna explain why the military is imprisoning cabinet members if this totally isn't a coup?
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Nov 11, 2019 02:08
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Fallen Hamprince posted:Morales did not dispute the OAS's findings, he tried to weasel his way into a do-over after the monitors made their report. Seems mighty inconsistent with somebody who wants to stuff the ballot boxes, wouldn't they just press forward instead of trying to secure trust in voting counts?
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Nov 11, 2019 02:09
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Fallen Hamprince posted:Morales did not dispute the OAS's findings, he tried to weasel his way into a do-over after the monitors made their report. I don't understand how I'm supposed to see a leader being okay to redo a poll when irregularities are reported as a bad thing? He clearly didn't want his election to be in doubt. Cerebral Bore posted:Buddy are you unfamiliar with Hamprince's gimmick or something? Yes, I am familiar with Hamprince but I still try to engage in good faith for some reason. I hadn't heard about OAS prior to hearing about their report being bullshit, and what I had heard before digging in was that irregularities had been reported without specific attribution.
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Nov 11, 2019 02:10
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Homeless Friend posted:Seems mighty inconsistent with somebody who wants to stuff the ballot boxes, wouldn't they just press forward instead of trying to secure trust in voting counts? The Demon Morales simultaneously was not going to do a new election, as well as do a new one he rigged, as well as ignore the observers he requested.
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Nov 11, 2019 02:11
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I'll read the thing but can I get a quick rundown on why we hate the OAS as an organization? OAS is a multilateral political organization. As such, it is only as good as the balance of forces within its members. In 2009 during the Honduras coup they initially suspended Honduras from OAS, but then Clinton maneuvered behind the scenes to defang efforts by Brazil to get Zelaya back in power. Point being that it is not a neutral organization, but instead a multilateral body with a really big fish in that small pond. It is relatively unsurprising that, given the current balance of forces in Latin America, the OAS would find against Evo.
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Nov 11, 2019 02:14
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"This can't be true, this can't be a right-wing US-backed coup, that would mean the anti-imperialists were right all along! Someone tell please me this is actually about restoring democracy and that Evo is an authoritarian dictator, please, I'm willing to listen to anyone, even fascists or the CIA"
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Nov 11, 2019 02:14
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hello my lovelies, seems like a good moment in time to come back to this cornerGreyjoyBastard posted:I'll read the thing but can I get a quick rundown on why we hate the OAS as an organization? Rather ineffective institution in terms of "Diplomatic organization and cooperation through the Americas" and excellent in terms of "Monroe Doctrine and Neoliberalism". For instance, Cuba is denied full participation even though only the United States is against it, with Canada/Mexico/Colombia often switching their position according to the government
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Nov 11, 2019 02:14
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I'll read the thing but can I get a quick rundown on why we hate the OAS as an organization? The OAS is America's right wing buddies acting as a bloc in south america
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Nov 11, 2019 02:14
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joepinetree posted:OAS is a multilateral political organization. As such, it is only as good as the balance of forces within its members. In 2009 during the Honduras coup they initially suspended Honduras from OAS, but then Clinton maneuvered behind the scenes to defang efforts by Brazil to get Zelaya back in power. Point being that it is not a neutral organization, but instead a multilateral body with a really big fish in that small pond. It is relatively unsurprising that, given the current balance of forces in Latin America, the OAS would find against Evo. Alright, makes sense. So not necessarily inherently bad, but easily swung by the US, especially when, say. Brazil is fash
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Nov 11, 2019 02:20
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im on the net me boys posted:It's not just unproven, it's literally that OAS claimed fraud and offered no evidence for it. CEPR is so confident that fraud didn't happen that it issued a press release calling on OAS to take it back. http://cepr.net/press-center/press-releases/oas-should-retract-its-press-release-on-bolivian-election-cepr-co-director-says okay this is entirely my jam on a quick skim, I'll read it in more detail for sure
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Nov 11, 2019 02:25
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Weisbrot is a DC lanyard talking out of his rear end. He is the co-chair of the CEPR and has an extensive track record of being willing to say absolutely anything in defence of Chavez, Maduro and Morales. He has no idea what evidence the OAS has, because they have only published a preliminary report of the findings of their audit, today. It is part of a rhetorical strategy to place blame for Morales' downfall on foreign actors and the US in particular, ignoring the massive public reaction to what was an obvious and hamhanded attempt by the government to fudge the numbers in its favour. im on the net me boys posted:I don't understand how I'm supposed to see a leader being okay to redo a poll when irregularities are reported as a bad thing? He clearly didn't want his election to be in doubt. Either he knew the fraud was happening and knowingly compromised the election or he was completely oblivious to a country-wide effort to steal the election perpetrated by his supporters. Either of those things are resignation-worthy.
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Nov 11, 2019 02:25
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Fallen Hamprince posted:Either he knew the fraud was happening and knowingly compromised the election or he was completely oblivious to a country-wide effort to steal the election perpetrated by his supporters. Either of those things are resignation-worthy. Fallen Hamprince posted:no idea what evidence the OAS has, because they have only published a preliminary report of the findings of their audit, today. These two things seem contradictory.
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Nov 11, 2019 02:33
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Bruh I don't know what to tell you
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Nov 11, 2019 02:33
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Homeless Friend posted:These two things seem contradictory. The OAS published a statement which said that their audit found evidence of serious fraud. They have not yet published the full findings of the audit, which would present the details and evidence of said fraud. Once again Morales did not dispute the OAS report. His foreign minister previously stated that the results would be binding. The 'OAS report is fake news' line is so dumb none of Morales' supporters in Bolivia are using it; it is purely some guy in DC pissing into the wind.
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Nov 11, 2019 02:45
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https://twitter.com/jonleeanderson/status/1193633440521838592
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Nov 11, 2019 02:45
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We are officially in the stage of the coup (attempt?) were the president has simultaneously resigned, still in power, is dead in the capital, alive in an undisclosed location, and is flying the presidential jet to Geneva.
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Nov 11, 2019 02:50
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I'd be more likely to believe this was a military coup if Bob Le Moche wasn't posting in this thread. It seems to be more likely as time goes on, I guess Evo didn't do a very good job of preparing for this considering he controlled everything in Bolivia for the past 13 years.
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Nov 11, 2019 02:51
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Fallen Hamprince posted:We are officially in the stage of the coup (attempt?) were the president has simultaneously resigned, still in power, is dead in the capital, alive in an undisclosed location, and is flying the presidential jet to Geneva. Quit being a stupid rear end in a top hat
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Nov 11, 2019 02:51
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ThanosWasRight posted:I'd be more likely to believe this was a military coup if Bob Le Moche wasn't posting in this thread. bold words, considering the fact that you're standing shoulder to shoulder with noted shithead hamprince
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Nov 11, 2019 02:56
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Fallen Hamprince posted:The OAS published a statement which said that their audit found evidence of serious fraud. They have not yet published the full findings of the audit, which would present the details and evidence of said fraud. how can he dispute the report when they haven't presented any evidence yet
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Nov 11, 2019 02:58
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ThanosWasRight posted:I'd be more likely to believe this was a military coup if Bob Le Moche wasn't posting in this thread.
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Nov 11, 2019 02:59
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Read this thread if you want to kill yourself.
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Nov 11, 2019 03:00
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Hi, I'm Bolivian-American and have lived in Bolivia for several years. The discussion about Evo Morales prompted me to post here for the first time. I'm very likely going to be called a neo-liberal, right-winger or CIA shill, but I still wanted to voice an anti-Evo Morales opinion for anyone else reading. There is a large chunk of Bolivians, including myself, who truly disliked Morales for many reasons. One of my biggest gripes with him is his authoritative streak (like him running for a fourth term despite our constitution limiting presidents to 2 terms only - and this after ignoring a referendum done in February 21st, 2016 in which Bolivianos told him not to run again), but he has done plenty of other things that have angered Bolivians. Morales loosened restrictions for farmers to burn down large swaths of Amazon rainforest (now 40% has been burned to the ground and 2 million animals have died), has made numerous sexist and homophobic comments against female politicians, has cracked down on independent journalism (one example is him opening up a defamation case against a journalist), rampant government corruption, he built a 34 million high-rise for himself, etc. I will not deny that Morales has done some good things for Bolivia. I don't see this issue as starkly black or white. But his thirst for power is very alarming for me, my friends and family, and hundreds of thousands of other Bolivianos. I do not condone the burning of Morales' sister's house or other forms of violence. However, as I write this, there are pro-MAS supporters who are burning down houses in Cota Cota, Achumani, Calacoto and my friends and family are fearing for their lives.
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Nov 11, 2019 03:00
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Wobbuffet posted:I do not condone the burning of Morales' sister's house or other forms of violence. However, you love to see it folks
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Nov 11, 2019 03:02
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How "massive" were the protests against Evo anyway? Most news sites only show low angle stuff or small mobs burning poo poo, I haven't seen anything like the massive streets full of people like in Chile or Ecuador. Edit: even then, it's hard to compare the concentrated urban anti-Evo protestors with the more scattered country supporters. hoiyes fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Nov 11, 2019 |
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Nov 11, 2019 03:02
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Wobbuffet posted:Hi, I'm Bolivian-American and have lived in Bolivia for several years. The discussion about Evo Morales prompted me to post here for the first time. I'm very likely going to be called a neo-liberal, right-winger or CIA shill, but I still wanted to voice an anti-Evo Morales opinion for anyone else reading. There is a large chunk of Bolivians, including myself, who truly disliked Morales for many reasons. disliking a long-standing politician is perfectly legitimate, though ideally such discontent would make itself known in other forms than a military coup
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Nov 11, 2019 03:03
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Wobbuffet posted:Hi, I'm Bolivian-American and have lived in Bolivia for several years. The discussion about Evo Morales prompted me to post here for the first time. I'm very likely going to be called a neo-liberal, right-winger or CIA shill, but I still wanted to voice an anti-Evo Morales opinion for anyone else reading. There is a large chunk of Bolivians, including myself, who truly disliked Morales for many reasons. OK now this is actually a great bit right here.
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Nov 11, 2019 03:04
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:you love to see it folks I absolutely do not condone violence against MAS supporters. His sister's house burning has been mentioned several times in this thread, but no one is talking about pro-MAS violence that is happening right now. It's terrible on BOTH sides.
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Nov 11, 2019 03:05
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Wobbuffet posted:Hi, I'm Bolivian-American and have lived in Bolivia for several years. The discussion about Evo Morales prompted me to post here for the first time. I'm very likely going to be called a neo-liberal, right-winger or CIA shill, but I still wanted to voice an anti-Evo Morales opinion for anyone else reading. There is a large chunk of Bolivians, including myself, who truly disliked Morales for many reasons. Authoritarian streak of continuously running for elections, inviting external observers, and then once again calling for another election. I mean, I guess that the real authoritarianism is asking the courts to remove term limits so that he could run in an election, not the military and the police arresting anyone related to MAS in any way. Wobbuffet posted:I absolutely do not condone violence against MAS supporters. His sister's house burning has been mentioned several times in this thread, but no one is talking about pro-MAS violence that is happening right now. It's terrible on BOTH sides. Only one side is arresting and exiling people.
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Nov 11, 2019 03:08
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Wobbuffet posted:It's terrible on BOTH sides You overplayed your hand. This completely gave it away.
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Nov 11, 2019 03:08
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punk rebel ecks posted:You overplayed your hand. This completely gave it away. I'm not sure exactly what you mean?
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Nov 11, 2019 03:11
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Doctor Jeep posted:bold words, considering the fact that you're standing shoulder to shoulder with noted shithead hamprince I don't really care about hamprince nor do I know him or endorse his positions. Le Moche on the other hand is a oval office and loves to run around threads carrying water for Maduro so I honestly rather gauge my eyes out than be on the same side than him. He's the Tulsi Gabbard of these forums. A lot of people bring in twitter posts from leftists saying "This is what is really happening in Bolivia" about some people marching to the capital, and the reality is you really don't loving know about that or the size of the protests since you're not in Bolivia and can't really read Bolivian news nor are knowledgeable about any of their biases. Everyone in this thread tries to form their own little narratives about what is actually going on based on their own newsfeeds without have any actual clue about the situation. I hope the reporter from the New Yorker is wrong but if he's right like I said, Evo definitely hosed up in terms of what he did with the military as he has control of that organization as President of Bolivia. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2019 03:11
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