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Majorian posted:That doesn't mean applying blatantly inaccurate labels to them is the proper solution. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2019 18:13
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Moderate Republicans are not being purged. They just took their mask off and moved further right because they now have a president who freely says the quiet part of their policies loudly.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:13
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Peacoffee posted:I love the idea that proof of being a moderate can be read off a score card. It's a good thing nobody is doing that and the only real controversy here is certain people looking for any excuse to be mad at others online
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Nov 11, 2019 18:14
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Rigel posted:You of all people should think that its useful to see whether or not the Republican "moderates" are being purged. Oh I know that the actual moderates have long since been purged and all that remains are various degrees of maintaining an outer narrative. I do not believe it is reasonable to discern whether or not someone is a moderate based on a measurement as meaningless as bipartisan voting on bills in the Congress- I believe it should be judged on how their beliefs and policies impact the least among us. And from that standpoint King is just not a moderate no matter what else he may have said or done.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:14
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Prester Jane posted:Politics is not a game. It is a life-or-death struggle for control of the reins of society. Jesus Christ The phrase "end game" doesn't imply that a "game" is being played, or that there aren't real stakes. It would be impossible for you to find a more disingenuous way to read my post - especially since my post is being critical of people for treating politics like a spectator sport, rather than focusing on results.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:14
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YodaTFK posted:It's a good thing nobody is doing that and the only real controversy here is certain people looking for any excuse to be mad at others online Oh well I'll defer to you since I can't read posts myself. Good on you for being the voice of reason.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:16
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It's absolutely worth discussing the intra-mural power disputes within the Republican party and what districts the caucus is becoming non-viable in. OTOH, defining "moderation" down to bipartisanship within the context of a specific Congress, and then calling it the most objective measure is so asinine that it needs rebuttal.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:16
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RottenK posted:but why bother with pointing out which republicans are moderates when literally all of them are still absolute, irredeemable scum of the earth? just feels like splitting hairs for no good reason because there are profound shifts going on in the house republican caucus and differentiating between republicans in trying to understand the effects is useful Majorian posted:As I said earlier, though, there are ways of doing this without applying blatantly inappropriate labels to them. "Moderate" is not an accurate label for Peter King. He's a Wall Street Republican. i agree with not using the term moderate to describe the concept, which is why i already said i don't like using the term "moderate" in this context because it promotes misunderstanding. wall street republican isn't really accurate though either; he's more "rear end in a top hat new york city cop republican". i just struggle to find a succinct way to describe "on the left side of the republican caucus, but without any implication that he is anywhere near the center let alone the left" besides using "moderate" in scare quotes but i'm all ears on a replacement.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:16
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Flip Yr Wig posted:It's absolutely worth discussing the intra-mural power disputes within the Republican party and what districts the caucus is becoming non-viable in. OTOH, defining "moderation" down to bipartisanship within the context of a specific Congress, and then calling it the most objective measure is so asinine that it needs rebuttal. 
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Nov 11, 2019 18:17
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Good morning to everyone exception the folks defending King (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2019 18:21
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theflyingorc posted:Remember: The end game of politics is to correctly sort out who the bad people are. Once you've done that, all the problems are solved. you are not going to get the We Must Purge Our Shores Of The Muslamic Hordes guy to vote with you. a charismatic wunderkind with all the sensible moderate advisors you could ask for spent eight years trying to make that happen. he failed. he failed so abjectly he was replaced by a senile con artist whose campaign platform was equal parts catty gossip about Bette Midler and raving about how Mexicans were going to rape, kill, and eat you, not necessarily in that order. accept that he is your enemy, instead of a friend you haven't figured out how to talk around to your side yet, and a whole new world of political awareness will open before you.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:22
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Pomp posted:the folks defending King Like who?
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Nov 11, 2019 18:22
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OK, now maybe we can have a conversation about Peter King's record and district without getting mad about word choice?
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Nov 11, 2019 18:22
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"moderate Republican," gently caress off, you either endorse cop murder or you don't. Every moderate Republican would let you die in a ditch of preventable illness to save 5 bucks on their taxes.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:23
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evilweasel posted:because there are profound shifts going on in the house republican caucus and differentiating between republicans in trying to understand the effects is useful
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Nov 11, 2019 18:23
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StrangersInTheNight posted:Speaking of Bernie Sanders, I dunno if it's begun for you guys, but the purity races in my circles of friends for Bernie above all other Dem candidates has begun If he was an actual philanthropist he wouldn't be hoarding over $100 billion in wealth. Being less bad than other billionaires doesn't make you good. Also: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-it-was-a-bust/
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Nov 11, 2019 18:24
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I think the three-page argument about whether King is a fuckface or merely a shitbird is missing the important point that Chuck Schumer is a dementia-addled trash goblin.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:26
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Mind you this is one thing that republicans have been doing for what the last 20 years and has them in the spot they are in where unless you are basically blood red you get primaried . You have to look at more then a voting record and at the local environment to prevent us from losing assets we might not agree with but can win in environments the avatar of lenin will lose in UCS Hellmaker posted:
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Nov 11, 2019 18:26
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and they have a blue wave that knocked them for a loop in 18, no actual bench for any seats, a senate they should be blowing away next year they actually could lose. A president that they can't control that is literally an idiot with dementia. They are not where they want to be as a party and its evident if you THINK AND LOOK PAST THE SURFACE
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fool_of_sound posted:OK, now maybe we can have a conversation about Peter King's record and district without getting mad about word choice? These probes are utterly embarrassing and its pathetic that the only thing that will get you removed is child beating or loving. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2019 18:27
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Gumball Gumption posted:Moderate Republicans are not being purged. They just took their mask off and moved further right because they now have a president who freely says the quiet part of their policies loudly. I think it's that many moderate republicans are leaving because the data shows that they're vulnerable and a horrible defeat would look bad on their resume'. My personal guess is that republicans are absolutely 100% abandoning the house in terms of funding and are going to attempt to hang onto the senate no matter what so they can stay politically relevant. At the same time, many people don't want to be caught up in a stunning loss. Notice that the people retiring are from the house, not the senate. They're going to do whatever it takes to hold onto the senate and attempt to take the house back later. Maybe accepting that democrats keep the house for the next decade due to anti-gerrymandering efforts. Republicans keep their rural states with all twelve people in each to preserve their power because apparently territory matters more than people do. Mitch McConnel's approval rating last time I checked is 18% and he might actually win because a culture of "our politicians are corrupt, but everyone is equally corrupt" is engendered as a philosophy instead of overthrowing this corrupt system in the first place. And really, I think that that's going to be the end result of what they're doing right now in the near to mid term future. Either a total checkout from politics or encouraging a revolutionary reactionary conservatism where we'll probably end up with both with a skew towards the second as time goes on with them attempting to seize power by abandoning liberal democracy altogether.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:27
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No that's the White House. Schumer just doesn't have balls
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Nov 11, 2019 18:27
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Cefte posted:I think it's particularly interesting in King's case, because, as you say, his particular political topology is quite distinctive - I always thought of him as one of the last old-school New York ethnic machine politicans. I get the dim impression that a good few surviving blue-state Republicans leaned heavily on one or two planks that put them outside the general partisan consensus - King certainly started with Irish sentiment, and flipped pretty rapidly towards anti-Islamic bigotry - and that's no longer enough. I imagine he's also looking at internals showing that youngish yuppies in Long Island suburbs are trending away from the Trumpified GOP, which is happening in metro areas across the country. My guess is that his bigoted stances probably would have insulated from a primary challenge.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:28
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Oh Snapple! posted:These probes are utterly embarrassing and its pathetic that the only thing that will get you removed is child beating or loving.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:29
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fool_of_sound posted:OK, now maybe we can have a conversation about Peter King's record and district without getting mad about word choice? The district is basically entirely populated by 1950s white flight. IIRC it contains the infamous MS13 HOTSPOT of Brentwood, which causes the surrounding white towns to cower in fear and clutch their pearls. They went for Obama twice and then swing hard Trump in 2016. Everyone who you talk to thinks Blue Lives Matter is cool and good. The area's only redeeming quality is easy access to the beach. I grew up there, it's a cesspit of racism and segregation and stuck in the 50s where everyone bitches about their property taxes and teachers unions. Tons of downstaters make fun of upstate for being "hicks" but Suffolk county is essentially Jim Crow Era Alabama with nice beaches.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:31
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Tibalt posted:"Why isn't the IK permabanning people" is the dumbest post in like 6 pages of fierce competition I think he's arguing the opposite, that probing people for melting down over an incredibly dumb slapfight is awful and that fool_of_sound should be removed because of it. Which is also an amazingly terrible take.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:31
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Tibalt posted:"Why isn't the IK permabanning people" is the dumbest post in like 6 pages of fierce competition i think their complaint is more "how dare the IK give sixers to the cspam brigade"
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Nov 11, 2019 18:31
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Ice Phisherman posted:I think it's that many moderate republicans are leaving because the data shows that they're vulnerable and a horrible defeat would look bad on their resume'. going back to our discussion a bit ago about the alt-right weirdos hollering at Don Jr, you see some echoes of this in their space. the people who were marching in Charlottesville two years ago are now talking about how they need to settle in for a long, quiet #resistance, to keep the flame alive until the next time they get a chance to push it. it'd be a relatively encouraging sign were it not for what we know climate change is going to be throwing at us over the next few decades.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:32
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Flip Yr Wig posted:I imagine he's also looking at internals showing that youngish yuppies in Long Island suburbs are trending away from the Trumpified GOP, which is happening in metro areas across the country. My guess is that his bigoted stances probably would have insulated from a primary challenge. He won 53/47 in 2018 (down from 62/38 in 2016). So he'd definitely be running scared enough that he'd have to campaign hard. How hard would depend, probably, on his analysis of what changed between 2016/2018 - basically, should he expect that Trump being back on the ticket would help him or hurt him even more. So yeah, I'd see this not as resigning because defeat was certain - but resigning because defeat was a realistic possibility, and best-case scenario he works really really hard to get re-elected maybe once more, so he may as well cash in his chips and go home now.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:32
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sexpig by night posted:This is also exactly how Dick's best friend Joe Biden justified working with segregationists, by the way, he was just being bipartisan. I mean AOC started working with racists the moment she got to collaborating on legislation with Ted Cruz so this isn’t as great a purity test as you think. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Nov 11, 2019 |
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Nov 11, 2019 18:32
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evilweasel posted:2) being in the minority loving sucks, by all accounts. the majority party doesn't give a flying gently caress about what you think, doesn't give you any power at all, and the number of bills that might actually be close enough to matter can usually be counted on the fingers of one hand for the whole two years (especially with an actually competent speaker like pelosi). so basically you spend two years getting shat on by the majority and your reward is a tough race to (likely) get more of the same. why bother? if you've been in congress for a while you might as well get out and start getting that deferred bribe money. I think this is a major driver of it. These people really live to be on the attack. Being the majority was great. They could deal with being the minority when they had a foil in the White House. Being in the minority, having to fight for campaign funding in a way they haven't had to in a while, and having to play kiss-rear end defense of an incompetent administration all isn't fun so they are bouncing.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:33
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Oh Snapple! posted:These probes are utterly embarrassing and its pathetic that the only thing that will get you removed is child beating or loving. You assume. This isn't about mods, but I'm hijacking the comment to talk about pedos and other non-consensual sex perverts in politics in general. I'm probably going to do a big post on the authoritarian normalization of pedophilia and other sexual crimes. It was an open secret for example was Hitler's open pursuit of an under eighteen girl in Germany. Even at the time pursuit of young women by a much older man was considered to be creepy and weird, but he was in charge so it got a pass. Nazi movements have really weird relationships with pedophilia because they'll basically accept any bag of poo poo so no matter how smelly. Also remember how much of the vote Roy Moore captured despite being credibly accused of being a lifelong pervert and kid fucker. Also how anime like made in Abyss is normalizing pedophilia at the margins of Western culture and how that's incredibly troubling. Perverts absolutely flock to authoritarian power structures because they can get away with non-consensual, evil poo poo because people in those power structures will 100% be down to cover for them. I'll throw something together when I'm less drunk. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Nov 11, 2019 |
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Nov 11, 2019 18:35
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Alongside fighting radical idiots that think they can do your job better and are actually insane. Having to win a primary against that then struggle in a general every two years? Would you want to?
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Nov 11, 2019 18:35
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Oh Snapple! posted:These probes are utterly embarrassing and its pathetic that the only thing that will get you removed is child beating or loving. You don’t have to be like this. I like that I can reliably predict when USPOL is melting down based on what tweets I see in my feed. Y’all need to chill the gently caress out. I don’t know anything about this retiring Republican other than that Schumer is praising him but from that I can surmise that he’s garbage and I am confused as to why this appears to be at issue.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:35
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StrangersInTheNight posted:Speaking of Bernie Sanders, I dunno if it's begun for you guys, but the purity races in my circles of friends for Bernie above all other Dem candidates has begun FoS will be here any second to tell you to take it to the primary thread but before he does, "purity tests" is a convenient way to say "not accepting mediocrity"
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Nov 11, 2019 18:35
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:going back to our discussion a bit ago about the alt-right weirdos hollering at Don Jr, you see some echoes of this in their space. I actually think that once Nazis get a hold of climate change and republican attitudes change, that this supercharges fascism as they'll want to go full fortress America. If you thought them thinking that climate change wasn't real, wait until fascists get a hold of the idea of climate change being real. That's going to be a nightmare.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:37
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mcmagic posted:Ilhan Omar is a loving beacon of moral clarity. Except when it comes to Armenians, I guess.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:38
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Lightning Knight posted:You don’t have to be like this. Everyone's hungover from the 3 day weekend and/or upset they have to work a holiday. Ice Phisherman posted:I actually think that once Nazis get a hold of climate change and republican attitudes change, that this supercharges fascism as they'll want to go full fortress America. If you thought them thinking that climate change wasn't real, wait until fascists get a hold of the idea of climate change being real. That's going to be a nightmare.  why do you think they want the wall so bad?
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Nov 11, 2019 18:40
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Ice Phisherman posted:I'll throw something together when I'm less drunk. Write drunk, edit sober.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:40
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evilweasel posted:So yeah, I'd see this not as resigning because defeat was certain - but resigning because defeat was a realistic possibility, and best-case scenario he works really really hard to get re-elected maybe once more, so he may as well cash in his chips and go home now. 2019-11-11 quote:A source familiar with King's thinking told CNN on Monday that King "was really holding on" until his daughter, Erin King Sweeney, a former councilwoman in Hempstead, New York, "could run for his seat and win it." But previously: 2019-09-12 quote:Hempstead Town Councilwoman Erin King Sweeney announced Thursday that she would no longer seek re-election to the Town Board.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:40
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FizFashizzle posted:Write drunk, edit sober. Man, I loving wish I could. My ability to write while drunk exists, but the urge just dies. ummel posted:
I actually think that this is an early expression of climate panic not just in America, but around the world and that it will steadily get worse unless actively combated.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:43
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