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Yak of Wrath posted:You are kinda proving Khizan's point by making a strained Stalin analogy rather than giving concrete examples of Marcone's status as a serious villian. He helps Dresden and saves children in pretty much every appearance while his crime empire is made more efficient by minimising human suffering, the guy could probably pick up and wield a Sword of the Cross in the next book and I wouldn't bat an eye. It is hard to imagine Marcone busting out somebody's business because they couldn't pay their gambling debts or beating somebody up for being late with the vig.
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Nov 8, 2019 16:37
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Marcone wouldn’t do that. Hendricks would.
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Nov 8, 2019 16:56
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Marcone’s character relies on the readers cultural knowledge of mafia movies /sopranos to fill in the gaps as to why Marcone is a terrible person. I think in the way that the books have a pattern for which major character group gets the spotlight that Marcone will eventually get his. My suspension is he’ll die in a way that Harry could have stopped after Harry (and the audience) get one final peak behind the curtain of the mob. And afterwards they’ll be a “well if you hadn’t left Marcone to die after seeing his organ harvesting warehouse you would have had him as backup right now” situation that forces Harry to accept an even worse bargain.
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Nov 8, 2019 17:17
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Anias posted:Just stare at this a little while and remember that you are endorsing job site discipline via executions. All else being equal, Johnny Marcone is still a better, more decent employer than Walmart.
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Nov 9, 2019 01:44
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For the person who was a bit put off by the Faust / Black books especially as they relate to a multiverse thing, I've been reading them in order via audiobook over the last few months, and I thought I'd share my thoughts. - For the record I only just finished book 2 of the Wisdom's Grave Trilogy. - The Revanche Cycle series is set entirely on an alternate universe planet, in what's basically NotItaly and covers the story of, and concept of some characters that will show up later. It's only important in so far as it introduces concepts that show up later, but is very much a stand alone trilogy. - Do you need to read these? arguably no, but when these characters show up later in a different context you may be confused. I'd recommend it, given it has its own complete arc, and ends satisfactorily. - The Faust books are good, the first one is weak, but starting with book 1.5, and on, it improves remarkably quickly. Don't skip any of these. - Absolutely ignore the first two Harmony Black books. Not only are they weak, they're also completely skippable with no long term ramifications. The only thing you need to know from them is that Harmony is a part of an undercover government agency dedicated to fighting paranormal threats, and that her partner Jesse Temple is a lapsed servant of the King of Wolves - "The Kings" being a concept which will be introduced throughout the series. - HB Book 3 is the only one (so far) that has any sort of movement / consequences / has any impact on the overall meta narrative, it's also substantially better written than books 1 & 2, so don't skip this. - The Meta narrative stuff, cross worlds and the like is absolutely minimal until the start of the Wisdom's grave trilogy, the meta narrative is mentioned briefly and in passing in the later books (I think it's overall, Book 6 in the series where some of the concepts start to be introduced more directly), so if you're concerned that it's all across the entire series it's not, it's only in the later books. - A lot of the writing is a joy to listen to, and the writing of what some of these characters can do using magic is utterly horrifying "Jade Glass" I've enjoyed Schaeffer's work a lot on this so I'm keen to see how it pans out. I just hope that the Witch and her Knight have a happy ending, if only the once, but given how each book has been introduced so far and how book 2 ended... 
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Nov 9, 2019 02:17
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You need to finish book 3 of the Wisdom's Grave trilogy. Then please post about it.
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Nov 9, 2019 04:52
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SystemLogoff posted:You need to finish book 3 of the Wisdom's Grave trilogy. Then please post about it. Definitely this because holy poo poo.
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Nov 9, 2019 09:09
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M_Gargantua posted:Marcone’s character relies on the readers cultural knowledge of mafia movies /sopranos to fill in the gaps as to why Marcone is a terrible person. I think in the way that the books have a pattern for which major character group gets the spotlight that Marcone will eventually get his. My suspension is he’ll die in a way that Harry could have stopped after Harry (and the audience) get one final peak behind the curtain of the mob. And afterwards they’ll be a “well if you hadn’t left Marcone to die after seeing his organ harvesting warehouse you would have had him as backup right now” situation that forces Harry to accept an even worse bargain. I kind of love how Harry gets irritated by the fact that Marcone is not a cliche villain. My take on Marcone was that he was born too late. In the 13th - 15th centuries he'd have made an amazing king. Ruthless, but enlightened. In the modern world he has to be a mob boss. Meanwhile, according to his Twitter, Ben Aaronovitch is making progress on "What Abigail Did That Summer."
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Nov 10, 2019 03:38
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UF round-up part 3: October Daye: Finished book 1 last night and oh god, that was devastating. Wanna watch an author stomp on Toby's heart over and over? This is the book for you. Great fae horror blended with a mystery, great depiction of a traumatized, low-key suicidal woman who cannot accept help from her friends and family, and just when you think things can't get worse, they do. I'm told other books in the series aren't this devastating or bleak, which is good, but also wow. Absolutely great writing, you should read this if you can handle being sad. ...also lmao a bit at how the "romantic love triangle" was between someone Toby hates, a child abuser, and a married man. And Toby is obviously in the worst possible position for romance. Fortunately the interaction with the "romantic leads" fit in smoothly with the book and made sense - they were all related to the case. I don't know if there was a publisher mandated inclusion of dudes, but the author sure made it work within the story she was aiming to tell, and yeah - there's no romance in this book. Maybe a page or two of Toby thinking about it before going "this is a bad idea". Night Huntress: This got stupid in unfun ways for a lot of the book, sadly. The writing is okay, and when it gets fun it gets fun, but the main problem with this book is that the heroine sits firmly in a space where I don't like her until she's gotten a lot of character growth, and that growth only kicks in at the end of the novel. See, she's a girl who grew up in Ohio with an insanely religious family and a mother with a holy agenda to kill all vampires, full-stop. So she's basically a boy scout: sex is scandalous, loosening up is bad, and other problems. The major development of this book is her learning that vampires aren't all evil - some are, some aren't - and the resulting conflict with her mother, who is a zealot about this. And then she has sex with a vampire and comes to love him, which makes her own mother think she's been corrupted and turned to evil. It's...disturbing, and often frustrating to read. The romance itself is weirdly written, with the heroine being really back and forth on it, and it even ends with her deciding to split from him for his own good. Which is something the dude normally does in PNR, so it's weird to see it reversed here. So I have a lot of conflicting feelings about this book and its emotional journey, yeah. The main plot was them working to stop a white slavery ring run by a vampire, and it ended with the heroine killing the mayor of Ohio and joining the FBI. Yeah, that escalated - and that's part of why I'm going back for book two, I want to see how this newly developed heroine who has a better sense of who she is and what she wants deals with being part of the FBI and vampire racism and so on. But would I recommend this series? I don't know. It's a firm 3/5 so far, so only read it if you know that it's what you want. Jane Yellowrock: Languid, slow writing that really evokes the heat of New Orleans. It's about a woman who is a skin-walker of Native American descent, but was raised white, but she's missing a lot of her memories and may be a lot older than she thinks she is, who has a Beast living in her who wants to be free. She's one hell of a complicated and interesting heroine, and I really enjoyed her - but my favorite character in the book was Beast, who is straight up a cougar who was merged into Jane and now they live together in really uneasy circumstances, and whenever Jane turns into her cat form there's a risk Beast won't let her change back. Beast is such a well-written cat, and it's a delight to see her reaction to human and vampire ways. The book itself is strange, a kind of pacing I haven't seen in UF yet: it's very slice of life, in a sense. Jane rolls up into New Orleans on a contract to catch a rogue vampire, settles into her freebie house given to her by a local vampire, and then nothing is left out. You get to see her handle meals, shopping for clothes, interviewing potential suspects and chasing down leads, tangling up in local vampire politics, shifting at night to let Beast track the rogue, and everything else. It leads to this weirdly slow, comfortable pacing as the investigation slowly comes together. I adored it, but you might not? Romance notes: there was none in this first book. Hints of it, sure, as Jane is happy to flirt, but nothing went anywhere. I'm curious to see if it does in future novels, as anyone who lands with her is getting someone who is - more than other UF protagonists - her own woman, and determined to stay that way. Skulduggery Pleasant: YA about a girl who gets drawn into a magic thriller plot thanks to her determination to find out who killed her uncle and the titular character, Skulduggery - he's a skeleton detective who's a veteran of a harsh magic war, and thanks to the war ending in Truce instead of victory, those black mages are still out there and willing to do terrible things. I really enjoyed this! Snappy pace, great wit, and it was just fun all around. I've started book 2 and I'm pleasantly surprised already that the heroine has been allowed to grow up, she won't be twelve forever. ... And that's it! Everything else I'm reading are #2s or series I won't talk about yet. Or coming in the mail (Alex Verus). bonus complaint: I'm a hundred pages into Dresden 2 and it's pure garbage. It's impressive and frustrating because I adore the idea of multiple werewolf variants in one setting. Most UF just has like... "Vampires in this series work this way, and any variations are aberrations who need to be killed" so the idea of multiple variants, and someone dealing with them having to figure out which variants, is really cool. Naturally for an idea this cool, Dresden will never use it again and this book is destined to be the worst one in the series. Good going, Butcher. 
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Nov 11, 2019 15:26
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StrixNebulosa posted:bonus complaint: I'm a hundred pages into Dresden 2 and it's pure garbage. It's impressive and frustrating because I adore the idea of multiple werewolf variants in one setting. Most UF just has like... "Vampires in this series work this way, and any variations are aberrations who need to be killed" so the idea of multiple variants, and someone dealing with them having to figure out which variants, is really cool. Naturally for an idea this cool, Dresden will never use it again and this book is destined to be the worst one in the series. Good going, Butcher. If it's any consolation, there is one good element from Fool Moon that shows up in the later, better books. (Two, technically, if offstage references to a particular character count.)
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Nov 11, 2019 15:34
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docbeard posted:If it's any consolation, there is one good element from Fool Moon that shows up in the later, better books. (Two, technically, if offstage references to a particular character count.) My reading plan for Dresden is do fifty pages whenever I'm willing to sit through them, and the one good thing about Butcher's writing style is that it is FAST. Like, compare/contrast Anita Blake or Jane Yellowrock - great books, great writing (for now, cannot comment on the rest of their series) - I go through 20-40 pages and it takes me a while. But Dresden? ZOOM. If I really hated myself I could probably finish Dresden 2 today, but I'm not ready to be that angry for that long. 
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Nov 11, 2019 15:37
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I’d say don’t drag it out. Get through it so you can get to Grave Peril and Dead Beat faster. If you’re not all in after Dead Beat, then I don’t know what to tell you.
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Nov 11, 2019 15:51
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Daric posted:I’d say don’t drag it out. Get through it so you can get to Grave Peril and Dead Beat faster. If you’re not all in after Dead Beat, then I don’t know what to tell you. Summer Knight is when the Dresden series takes a big jump in quality. Or at least that's when Harry sheds (or at least de-emphasizes) some of his more irritating aspects. Grave Peril isn't as bad as the first two because it has a good bit in the way of consequences for Harry. The first couple of books have the thing where Harry acts like a chauvinist rear end in a top hat and is almost rewarded for it.
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Nov 11, 2019 16:08
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I'm currently on book four of the Heartstrikers series so I guess I'm enjoying it. It does sidestep a lot of my irritations with UF stuff - the leads do gain in power but in the base of the male lead it's not physical power and mostly he just blunders through things in an entertaining way by being as nice as possible in a giant family of cutthroat dragons. In like 90% of fights he's in he gets his teeth kicked in. The female protagonist is a good mage, but no world-conquerer, although she does kind of also luck into something that boosts her beyond her means. Didn't realize they were stealth Shadowrun novels, but that's hardly a bug.
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Nov 11, 2019 16:41
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Daric posted:I’d say don’t drag it out. Get through it so you can get to Grave Peril and Dead Beat faster. If you’re not all in after Dead Beat, then I don’t know what to tell you.
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Nov 11, 2019 22:59
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Read Dresden when I could be reading Dante Valentine, Anita Blake, Kitty, and more October Daye? Hell no. I have too much respect for my free time to waste it marathoning early Dresden. Fifty pages every 2-3 days or nothing, I'll repeat until I finish the first three books and then decide if I want to buy book 4 and 5.
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Nov 11, 2019 23:02
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I'm halfway through Cold Days now and I forgot how much explanation of the goings on with the island you get there. Now I remember why everyone thought Dresden was a time traveler and the original Merlin. Hope we get even more info in Peace Talks.
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Nov 11, 2019 23:13
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StrixNebulosa posted:Read Dresden when I could be reading Dante Valentine, Anita Blake, Kitty, and more October Daye? Hell no. I have too much respect for my free time to waste it marathoning early Dresden. Fifty pages every 2-3 days or nothing, I'll repeat until I finish the first three books and then decide if I want to buy book 4 and 5. Honestly, gently caress the first two-three books. Start with Summer Knight (or just put a bookmark in Fool Moon and skip to that one. If you like that okay, read some more and then if you decide you just absolutely have to read to completion go back and read the first three. The first two books of the DF introduce the world and some of the important characters, but all of that information is stuff you can derive/obtain from later books. Book three introduces a few more characters and kicks off a pretty big plot thread that runs through many of the other books, but it's still at least somewhat skippable. It's a fun series with some pretty fun characters and stuff. However, you are beginning at the shittiest part of it - the beginning. My concern is that you'll get so sick of it that you'll stop right before the series gets good, or at least decent moving toward good. Everyone fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Nov 12, 2019 |
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Nov 12, 2019 00:25
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Everyone posted:Honestly, gently caress the first two-three books. Start with Summer Knight (or just put a bookmark in Fool Moon and skip to that one. If you like that okay, read some more and then if you decide you just absolutely have to read to completion go back and read the first three. So to get the full idea of whether Dresden is good or not, I have to read book 4? Okay, I can agree to go that far before I decide if I'm committing to more or not. I'm afraid I'm the kind of broke-brain that can't skip books in a series, so, well, I'm plugging through. I'm not too worried about me dropping the series, as I am drat curious to find out why it's so popular. At least, I won't drop it until after book 4!
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Nov 12, 2019 01:01
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Cold Days spoiler but this was a good exchange: Dresden: If I traveled back in time and tried to kill my grandfather, what would happen? Odin: He beats you senseless, I suspect
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Nov 12, 2019 01:12
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StrixNebulosa posted:So to get the full idea of whether Dresden is good or not, I have to read book 4? Okay, I can agree to go that far before I decide if I'm committing to more or not. I'm afraid I'm the kind of broke-brain that can't skip books in a series, so, well, I'm plugging through. I don't want to oversell it. To a certain extent, Butcher's style is Butcher's style. He writes a lot like I tended to write when I did fan fiction crap. I'd imagine a cool scene and look at the story to figure out where to put it and why it happened. Like Storm Front might have had "What if Harry fights the bad guy in a burning house?" and a lot of the rest of the story is how to get to that point. The thing that changes between Books 1-3 and Book 4 is that by that point Harry has suffered... difficulty and blames himself for those difficulties. His defiance comes across more as courage instead of ignorant arrogance. Also he starts to share more information with those in his life and mostly drops the whole "I keep the truth from you to protect you." Mostly. There are times Dresden keeps secret to save others. And also to save his own rear end. A big draw for me was a lot of scenes and situations that made me think "God Dammit I wish could see that play out on a screen!"
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Nov 12, 2019 03:19
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Everyone posted:Honestly, gently caress the first two-three books. Start with Summer Knight (or just put a bookmark in Fool Moon and skip to that one. If you like that okay, read some more and then if you decide you just absolutely have to read to completion go back and read the first three. To be honest you'd mostly just miss the characters, as the world isn't really all that unique on the whole. If you've seen any World of Darkness anything you probably have a good idea what Dresden's setting is. Especially if it's Mage: The Paradox. And Murphy's the best of the lot of the first three books but you already know her so... I do agree entirely with 'gently caress the first three books' though. Summer Knight's a definite improvement so far, even if I'm not very hyped on it.
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Nov 12, 2019 03:24
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Everyone posted:A big draw for me was a lot of scenes and situations that made me think "God Dammit I wish could see that play out on a screen!" I need - need - you to read Dante Valentine and/or Kate Daniels, the cinematic sequences in those books are killer.
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Nov 12, 2019 03:49
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Well, "Bring the Fire" is certainly going... places. I've got about 5 hours of audiobook left.
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Nov 12, 2019 03:54
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StrixNebulosa posted:I need - need - you to read Dante Valentine and/or Kate Daniels, the cinematic sequences in those books are killer. Illona Andrews definitely have a number of scenes that would be fun for Hollywood to try.
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Nov 12, 2019 04:44
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tithin posted:Well, "Bring the Fire" is certainly going... places.  I'm very excited for your post when it's finished.
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Nov 12, 2019 05:00
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Skulduggery 2: Will I ever get sick of "so this is how vampires work in our world. crosses no, holy water no, running water yes" sequences? No! No I will not! Tell me how to kill a vampire in every UF series ever, I love finding out if stakes work, or if they need silver, or if sunlight burns or only tans. Also, please stop endangering the thirteen year old.
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Nov 12, 2019 05:09
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StrixNebulosa posted:October Daye: Finished book 1 last night and oh god, that was devastating. Wanna watch an author stomp on Toby's heart over and over? This is the book for you. Great fae horror blended with a mystery, great depiction of a traumatized, low-key suicidal woman who cannot accept help from her friends and family, and just when you think things can't get worse, they do. I'm told other books in the series aren't this devastating or bleak, which is good, but also wow. Absolutely great writing, you should read this if you can handle being sad. I doubt it was publisher-mandated, although it is the first book she had published and she had far less clout then (these days she publishes 4-5 books a year and has multiple awards). In various LiveJournal/Tumblr/Twitter posts over the years she's made it pretty clear a large number of the major plot threads were planned out well in advance, and this would count. The biggest instance of "interference" in the series I'm aware of actually involves the second book, and came from the editor.
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Nov 12, 2019 07:17
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StrixNebulosa posted:Skulduggery 2: Will I ever get sick of "so this is how vampires work in our world. crosses no, holy water no, running water yes" sequences? No! No I will not! Tell me how to kill a vampire in every UF series ever, I love finding out if stakes work, or if they need silver, or if sunlight burns or only tans. If you have not seen Ultraviolet (the late 90s UK tv series with Jack Davenport and Idris Elba, not the film of the same name), you really need to.
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Nov 12, 2019 19:49
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docbeard posted:If you have not seen Ultraviolet (the late 90s UK tv series with Jack Davenport and Idris Elba, not the film of the same name), you really need to. While the aesthetics were stupid and twee as gently caress, the Twilight vampires were just dangerous as hell. No real vampire-exclusive weakness, superhuman abilities and the only way to kill the loving things was to dismember then burn the dismembered parts.
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Nov 12, 2019 20:31
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Everyone posted:While the aesthetics were stupid and twee as gently caress, the Twilight vampires were just dangerous as hell. No real vampire-exclusive weakness, superhuman abilities and the only way to kill the loving things was to dismember then burn the dismembered parts. Yeah it would not be unreasonable to take Alice Cullen over most superheroes tbh.
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Nov 12, 2019 20:59
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Anias posted:Yeah it would not be unreasonable to take Alice Cullen over most superheroes tbh. If anything that made me hate this series even more. I read the first Twilight book just to see what all the fuss was about. I hated Bella. Just hated her. My reaction was "Why the gently caress is the protagonist the human version of the suicidal cow* from The Restaurant at the End of the Universe?" The fact that the vampires (glow aside) were basically nightmare versions of Blade Daywalkers and would have been amazing in some kind of decent action-horror as antagonists just trebled the intensity of my hate for wasting them. * For those unfamiliar with the book, I'm not being misogynist. This was an actual udder-having bovine cow. It could think and speak and came to the characters' table to ask them which portions of it they wanted to eat.
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Nov 12, 2019 22:45
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Everyone posted:If anything that made me hate this series even more. I read the first Twilight book just to see what all the fuss was about. I hated Bella. Just hated her. My reaction was "Why the gently caress is the protagonist the human version of the suicidal cow* from The Restaurant at the End of the Universe?" The fact that the vampires (glow aside) were basically nightmare versions of Blade Daywalkers and would have been amazing in some kind of decent action-horror as antagonists just trebled the intensity of my hate for wasting them. My favorite vampires are the ones from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Both the 'regular' ones and the super ones known as the Pillar Men. Sunlight is pretty much the only weakness they have and even then it's not a permanent one - the Pillar Men for example just turn into stone when exposed to sunlight, and are able to resurrect from this so it's near-impossible to permanently kill them. Also they just drink blood through any part of their body and can survive even when torn to shreds so they're basically the vampire equivilant of the monster from The Thing. Also they can do stuff like squirt blood from their eyes with enough force to cut someone into pieces and project the strength of their will as invisible spirits who can stop time. And they aren't wasted.
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Nov 12, 2019 23:21
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Kchama posted:My favorite vampires are the ones from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Both the 'regular' ones and the super ones known as the Pillar Men. Sunlight is pretty much the only weakness they have and even then it's not a permanent one - the Pillar Men for example just turn into stone when exposed to sunlight, and are able to resurrect from this so it's near-impossible to permanently kill them. Also they just drink blood through any part of their body and can survive even when torn to shreds so they're basically the vampire equivilant of the monster from The Thing. I have no idea what Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is but I am now dead set on find out. Off to Google now...
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Nov 12, 2019 23:56
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Everyone posted:I have no idea what Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is but I am now dead set on find out. Off to Google now... It's a very, very long-running manga (and now anime) and it evolved from Fist of the North Star with Vampires to... to something original. Wholly original. I'd recommend it, but watch out for gore.
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Nov 13, 2019 00:01
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StrixNebulosa posted:It's a very, very long-running manga (and now anime) and it evolved from Fist of the North Star with Vampires to... to something original. Wholly original. I'd recommend it, but watch out for gore. It fits the thread topic, too, since all of it can pretty easily be considered urban fantasy/horror. And yeah it's pretty huge on horror. It's split up into distinct Parts that can largely all act as completely self-contained stories, though they all build on the same setting, and their genres all differ but they're all more or less primarily urban fantasy/horror. Phantom Blood is Victorian horror, Battle Tendency is set just before WWII, Stardust Crusaders is a world-trekking adventure in 89, Diamond is Unbreakable is a murder mystery in 1999, Golden Wind is a mafia movie in 2001, Stone Ocean is a prison breakout flick in 2011. Steel Ball Run is a cross-country horse race set in 1890s, and JoJoLion is a horror mystery. They're all very weird and crazy and filled with all the cinematic fights you could ask for.
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Nov 13, 2019 00:54
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God I'm so glad that gently caress got what was coming to him.
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Nov 13, 2019 09:38
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Everyone posted:I have no idea what Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is but I am now dead set on find out. Off to Google now... Note that while all of JoJo is good, the author didn't really figure out what he wanted it to be until the third arc. 1 & 2 are still plenty entertaining, but 1 in particular is friggin' weird when you revisit it knowing what it turns into.
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Nov 14, 2019 03:34
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Finished book 13 of October Daye. The audiobook version even had a novella at the end. It was really good, and I like where I think the story is going and where it’s been so far. Now I have to go pick up the rest of the side stories because holy poo poo do they have some important things in them.
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Nov 14, 2019 15:08
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DreamingofRoses posted:Finished book 13 of October Daye. The audiobook version even had a novella at the end. It was really good, and I like where I think the story is going and where it’s been so far. Now I have to go pick up the rest of the side stories because holy poo poo do they have some important things in them. Which novella did it come with? I think In Sea-Salt Tears is the only one that's really plot relevant, and most of that's covered after reading The Unkindest Tide. The others are great character work, but so far none of them are plot relevant afaik? Still worth reading. StrixNebulosa posted:Jane Yellowrock: Languid, slow writing that really evokes the heat of New Orleans. It's about a woman who is a skin-walker of Native American descent, but was raised white, but she's missing a lot of her memories and may be a lot older than she thinks she is, who has a Beast living in her who wants to be free. She's one hell of a complicated and interesting heroine, and I really enjoyed her - but my favorite character in the book was Beast, who is straight up a cougar who was merged into Jane and now they live together in really uneasy circumstances, and whenever Jane turns into her cat form there's a risk Beast won't let her change back. Beast is such a well-written cat, and it's a delight to see her reaction to human and vampire ways. I generally enjoyed the Jane Yellowrock books. I need to go back and pick up the last couple, but it was generally a good enough series. The romance angle is pretty good imo.
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Nov 14, 2019 15:27
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