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Patware posted:have we even had much of a conversation with a Gold at any point? Cio's husband. But he's also possessing another being, presumably to steal its size and powers.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:16
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Princess can't be used as an example for anything Devil related because Allison broke most to all of the rules regarding summoning/making/de\re\incarnating a devil through drunken furious dumbassery empowered by the Voice of God, she's been stated to be a little bit of a unique case. Also Himself knowing He is Himself is very close to Him being I, which is the Secret Name of God and the True Shape Of The Universe. It then could be semi-safely assumed that He is close to being a pure incarnation/representation/actualization of The Hot Black Flame itself, and thus one half of YIS.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:20
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Interesting note about Himself: he can see through the eyes of, or in some way know, what all devils are up to due to the shared black flame nature. That's how he knew what Cio was thinking when she first met Allison. We also don't know anything about pale devils. Perhaps they have found a way to live without feeding their flame?
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Nov 14, 2019 02:37
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this possession lark seems like an incredibly bad idea
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Nov 14, 2019 02:47
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Solomon David eyes the jeep keys.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:54
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V. Illych L. posted:this possession lark seems like an incredibly bad idea true royalty is understanding that being in trouble is a fake idea
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Nov 14, 2019 02:57
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instantly after posting that it occurs to me that the same thing must have been posted fifty times in this thread already to fifty distinct situations anyways, still true
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Nov 14, 2019 02:58
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Fister Roboto posted:Solomon David eyes the jeep keys. I wonder if Solomon is for or against careful legalistic rule-bending. Like, this seems like a legitimate loophole in his tournament rules; will he applaud it or go jeep?
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Nov 14, 2019 03:00
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Joe Slowboat posted:I wonder if Solomon is for or against careful legalistic rule-bending. Like, this seems like a legitimate loophole in his tournament rules; will he applaud it or go jeep? i believe that he will sternly say "I'll allow it, but watch yourself, counselor"
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Nov 14, 2019 03:06
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"I'm not mad at you for doing that, but I am disappointed."
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Nov 14, 2019 03:11
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Hostile V posted:"I'm not mad at you for doing that, but I am disappointed." Congratulations Allison, you're officially a SolDave failson now!
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Nov 14, 2019 03:22
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Relevant information to our current conversation: https://killsixbilliondemons.tumblr.com/post/169190011145/princess-the-devil-seems-to-have-some-vague
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Nov 14, 2019 03:40
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Joe Slowboat posted:I wonder if Solomon is for or against careful legalistic rule-bending. Like, this seems like a legitimate loophole in his tournament rules; will he applaud it or go jeep? I was about to make a joke about there being nothing in the rules saying
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Nov 14, 2019 03:47
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I think that if Cio ever turns ebon again, and it isn't just fridging her or turning her into a villain (both of which I feel Abbadon would not do), then I think she would likely do so after another timeskip. 'Cio' (not Cio von maximus etc) would likely be an idealized version of what Cio wants to be, and not what she once was as Yabalchoath. I feel like it would be pretty bad message to say that a persons idealized or distilled self free of what labels other people put onto you is worse and more immoral.
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Nov 14, 2019 03:54
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Can't be the first time a competitor in the Ring has masked up. Might mean it's a known, allowable factor, though.
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Nov 14, 2019 03:55
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thechosenone posted:I think that if Cio ever turns ebon again, and it isn't just fridging her or turning her into a villain (both of which I feel Abbadon would not do), then I think she would likely do so after another timeskip. 'Cio' (not Cio von maximus etc) would likely be an idealized version of what Cio wants to be, and not what she once was as Yabalchoath. I feel like it would be pretty bad message to say that a persons idealized or distilled self free of what labels other people put onto you is worse and more immoral. Look, the rule clearly states that a man cannot wear his girlfriend or wife like a mask, therefore this is all fine and dandy
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Nov 14, 2019 03:57
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thechosenone posted:I think that if Cio ever turns ebon again, and it isn't just fridging her or turning her into a villain (both of which I feel Abbadon would not do), then I think she would likely do so after another timeskip. 'Cio' (not Cio von maximus etc) would likely be an idealized version of what Cio wants to be, and not what she once was as Yabalchoath. I feel like it would be pretty bad message to say that a persons idealized or distilled self free of what labels other people put onto you is worse and more immoral. I mean I think Ebons are also 'most like the pure Hot Black Flame' and thus the most inherent/natural form, and one of the core themes of the setting is "Essential natures don't matter, you can determine what you want to be. Nature loses to will." Cio's most 'pure' devil nature is Yabalchoath, but what she wants to be and chooses to be is Ciocie Cioelle Estrella von Maximus the Third. I don't think that's a bad message.
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Nov 14, 2019 03:58
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Xand_Man posted:I was about to make a joke about there being nothing in the rules saying I fully expect that if there is such a law, it's gender specific.
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Nov 14, 2019 04:06
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I mean, if we are gonna go with lore on things* you could say that the gods never intended to create devils, as even Koss did not try to work the Black Flame, hot or warm, and that there really isn't a 'most natural' state for devils for the most part. I would also say that I agree the level of a devil isn't the end all be all of their power or their self actualization as a person. Either way, I think if Cio ever does find herself with only her Ebon name, That the name will reflect the person she is, and not the other way around. *:though I will note that every watsonian text on these issues is likely biased and does not hold the complete picture, and I think while Abbadon might say some things here or there, he likely isn't going to spell things out completely, and can always change his mind on what is the case later. Edit: This is a separate argument than above, but we could even argue that technically she doesn't even have 'Yabalchoath' in her name at all anymore, and that while having been her is an important part of Cio, it doesn't define her solely, or even majoritively considering it isn't even referenced in the name. This is assuming that a Devil even has to have its name reflect its personality at all and can't just be 'I thought it sounded the best' thechosenone fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 04:09
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Xand_Man posted:I was about to make a joke about there being nothing in the rules saying Cio, Allison, and the whole name of God piled up in a trench coat might be creeping up on what your call the limits of Solomon's jurisdiction
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Nov 14, 2019 05:22
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Rotten Red Rod posted:This is officially too much mechanics analysis for me, even. yeah seriously just tell me where to stand and when to press buottn
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Nov 14, 2019 05:34
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To answer the earlier question, especially in light of the linked word of god, I think it's clear: You can absolutely have multiple of the same demon running around if someone willed them into being hard enough. The real question is how long they'd get along before betraying themselves.
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Nov 14, 2019 07:40
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Schwarzwald posted:instantly after posting that it occurs to me that the same thing must have been posted fifty times in this thread already to fifty distinct situations royalty is not worrying about it that's probably also the absolute best way to explain royalty
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Nov 14, 2019 08:09
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One thing nobody's brought up yet: The mask used to make Princess was intended as a replacement mask for another devil. If the devil's mind and personality is in the mask, how can it be replaced? Wouldn't that just result in a new devil (and the destruction of the old one)? Or does it actually work more like Vladok/Princess, where the new devil retains most of the original memories/personality if you immediately slap on on a new mask after removing the old one?
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Nov 14, 2019 17:12
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Nostalgamus posted:One thing nobody's brought up yet: I think it has a lot to do with the intentions of the binder. The mask was intended as a replacement, so it would've become one until it was overwritten by Allison.
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Nov 14, 2019 17:17
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I'm guessing that when Allison's not involved there's a magic ritual of some kind to transform the new mask to become a clone of the old.
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Nov 14, 2019 17:43
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Nostalgamus posted:One thing nobody's brought up yet:
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Nov 14, 2019 18:29
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SardonicTyrant posted:Abaddon said there's a case to be made that Vladok's dead and Princess is deceiving themselves. Lol next you'll be saying the very concept of the self is naught but continuous deception
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Nov 14, 2019 21:08
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Abaddon is YISUN, and thus a known liar
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Nov 14, 2019 21:08
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My [BRAND]! https://twitter.com/Orbitaldropkick/status/1195199064830287872?s=20
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Nov 15, 2019 05:43
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D.Ork Bimboolean posted:My [BRAND]! i feel like we all intuitively knew that whatever this fusion looks like, it will be Horny
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Nov 15, 2019 05:45
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So we all agree that Allison will lose her eye when Cio's mask is shattered, right?
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Nov 15, 2019 05:46
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pseudorandom name posted:So we all agree that Allison will lose her eye when Cio's mask is shattered, right? no?
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Nov 15, 2019 05:55
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not empty quoting except in a buddhist sense
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Nov 15, 2019 06:00
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pseudorandom name posted:So we all agree that Allison will lose her eye when Cio's mask is shattered, right?
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Nov 15, 2019 06:08
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PMush Perfect posted:What is with y'all and predicting that Abaddon is going to fridge Cio? It just seems narratively likely for the protagonist to be motivated by the death of their lover, I suppose. Certainly an event like that would provoke Allison to be a Furious Dumbass like never before.
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Nov 15, 2019 06:21
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PMush Perfect posted:What is with y'all and predicting that Abaddon is going to fridge Cio? Fits in with Abbadon saying 'you guys are really gonna hate this chapter's ending'. That could be a good reason why.
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Nov 15, 2019 06:31
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There Bias Two posted:It just seems narratively likely for the protagonist to be motivated by the death of their lover, I suppose. Certainly an event like that would provoke Allison to be a Furious Dumbass like never before.
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Nov 15, 2019 06:31
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SardonicTyrant posted:Abaddon said there's a case to be made that Vladok's dead and Princess is deceiving themselves. There's also a case to be made that neither Vladok or Princess ever existed and princess is just a nonsentient chunk of the hot black flame that reacts to stimulus in such a way as to simulate a devil deceiving itself into thinking it's the continuation of another devil. Because it's an in-universe position that all devils are P-Zombies and for the most part devils have the response of "drat you make a good point" and then continuing on as they were.
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Nov 15, 2019 06:46
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Al-yis-un losing her key but learning to use the power of Want without it from Maya (because why does Royalty need a key? Zoss certainly seems fine, and he was decapitated) seems more likely than a Cio fridging, tbh
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Nov 15, 2019 06:50
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