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Forge world WHY are you like this
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Nov 11, 2019 09:53
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fatherboxx posted:Forge world WHY are you like this I think it's just GW's attitude that LoTR is now a secondary property. 40k and Sigmar are well into what I call GW 2.0 sculpts, where things have really gone from just minis, to mini works of art. Like they put all their top sculptors on those properties. All their second tier sculptors are on stuff like LoTR, where they're still churning out basic minis that might as well have come out 20 years ago for their lack of quality. This is just me speculating, as I know gently caress all about what's going on behind the scenes. For all I know LoTR might be their best seller, but looking at their catalog, there's really nothing in the LoTR range as striking as modern 40k and Sigmar sculpts.
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Nov 11, 2019 10:08
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:I think it's just GW's attitude that LoTR is now a secondary property. 40k and Sigmar are well into what I call GW 2.0 sculpts, where things have really gone from just minis, to mini works of art. Like they put all their top sculptors on those properties. All their second tier sculptors are on stuff like LoTR, where they're still churning out basic minis that might as well have come out 20 years ago for their lack of quality. Not that I disagree with your post, but I feel like the problem with those particular minis is that the artist went for techniques they didn't have the skills or time or something to pull off. They'd look better with a more basic paintjob that didn't attempt to add things like leather texture. Still not good enough to sell those things at forge world prices though 
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Nov 11, 2019 11:09
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Elf pointing at his own hosed up eye in disbelief.
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Nov 11, 2019 12:08
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Saint Drogo posted:Elf pointing at his own hosed up eye in disbelief. All I can hear is Gordon Ramsay's exasperated, ever more higher pitched "Look!"
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Nov 11, 2019 13:51
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:All their second tier sculptors are on stuff like LoTR, where they're still churning out basic minis that might as well have come out 20 years ago for their lack of quality. LotR stuff is hand-sculpted in 25mm and the Warhammer lines are CAD heroic 28mm. I'm also speculating, but FW seems to be using techniques from 20 years ago, as well as a (license mandated) obsolete scale for the LotR figures.
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Nov 11, 2019 14:16
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 worse than Mantic lol
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Nov 11, 2019 14:36
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:I think it's just GW's attitude that LoTR is now a secondary property. 40k and Sigmar are well into what I call GW 2.0 sculpts, where things have really gone from just minis, to mini works of art. Like they put all their top sculptors on those properties. All their second tier sculptors are on stuff like LoTR, where they're still churning out basic minis that might as well have come out 20 years ago for their lack of quality. Also, don't underestimate New Line/Tolkien's capacity for MASSIVE self-owning. They were gigantic pains in the rear end to deal with back in the day and I can't imagine they have got much better. If you ever want to ruin Brian Nelson's day, ask him about sculpting the original Arwen.
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Nov 11, 2019 15:14
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moths posted:LotR stuff is hand-sculpted in 25mm and the Warhammer lines are CAD heroic 28mm. I'm also speculating, but FW seems to be using techniques from 20 years ago, as well as a (license mandated) obsolete scale for the LotR figures. You can still hand sculpt and not have your figures look like rear end though. Yes you're not going to get some spectacular "floating on a cloud of spirits" effect but you don't have to make your guys look like they're line dancing.
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Nov 11, 2019 15:26
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Robert Facepalmer posted:Also, don't underestimate New Line/Tolkien's capacity for MASSIVE self-owning. They were gigantic pains in the rear end to deal with back in the day and I can't imagine they have got much better. This sounds like a story I'd like to hear.
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Nov 11, 2019 15:43
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Didn't they have the Perry's for their early stuff? The plastic troops were pretty good.
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Nov 11, 2019 16:23
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Hell. For one piece models the original plastic troops were loving great at the time.
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Nov 11, 2019 16:30
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fatherboxx posted:Forge world WHY are you like this I feel people are uncharitably mean towards Mantic a lot of the time when they have upped their game considerably in recent years. But this does remind me of that KoW chariot where the painter had left a drat gap in the horses neck for some reason.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:06
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GET INTO DA CHOPPA posted:This sounds like a story I'd like to hear. Essentially the sculpts had to be approved by a whole litany of people that probably had no clue what they were looking at. New Line, Tolkien, agents, all the way up to the actual actors for people that had likeness rights in their contracts. Needless to say, that portion of the approvals had 'varied' responses. Elijah Wood and Sean Bean apparently were all 'whatever, I'm getting paid', Sean Astin, Viggo Mortensen, and Ian McKellen were legit psyched that they were gonna be l'il metal mans. Then there was Liv Tyler. Wouldn't approve her likeness and would provide useful feedback like 'a princess should be beautiful.' Not sure how long it took to finally get something that was approved, but long enough that they almost canceled the code. I never got to ask Brian about that experience, but he always seemed a bit testy at the best of times, so I can only imagine his reaction to a reminder of those days.
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Nov 11, 2019 18:20
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fatherboxx posted:Forge world WHY are you like this no new lotr movies
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Nov 11, 2019 19:14
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:I think it's just GW's attitude that LoTR is now a secondary property. 40k and Sigmar are well into what I call GW 2.0 sculpts, where things have really gone from just minis, to mini works of art. Like they put all their top sculptors on those properties. All their second tier sculptors are on stuff like LoTR, where they're still churning out basic minis that might as well have come out 20 years ago for their lack of quality. Are a lot of the GW LoTR minis not the original minis but just reissued due to licensing issues?
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Nov 11, 2019 19:26
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It'll be interesting to see if GW can get the licence for HBO's TV show, since it would be five years of new interest in the series to use to sell models. Most GW stores don't even carry LOTR models anymore, except for the newest releases and even then only for a month. Which is a shame, as Battle Companies is rad as hell and the game desperately needs new models with optional parts to choose from, instead of one static pose.
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Nov 11, 2019 19:44
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Robert Facepalmer posted:Sean Astin, Viggo Mortensen, and Ian McKellen were legit psyched that they were gonna be l'il metal mans. 
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Nov 11, 2019 20:03
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moths posted:LotR stuff is hand-sculpted in 25mm and the Warhammer lines are CAD heroic 28mm. I'm also speculating, but FW seems to be using techniques from 20 years ago, as well as a (license mandated) obsolete scale for the LotR figures. How can a scale be obsolete? I'd rather LotR be in its own weird scale that nothing else uses but is consistent across the line than the gradual scale creep you get across most other GW properties.
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Nov 12, 2019 11:54
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FMguru posted:Sir Ian remains the best It delights me to think of the possibility that somewhere in his house he has a little shelf of badly painted miniatures of the fellowship that he got in that weekly magazine they did.
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Nov 12, 2019 11:57
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In case anyone has managed not to see this before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGag8Qllgnw
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Nov 12, 2019 12:25
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Atlas Hugged posted:In case anyone has managed not to see this before: I had not and I am delighted by it.
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Nov 12, 2019 13:24
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Atlas Hugged posted:How can a scale be obsolete? There's been an industry-wide shift from 25mm, someimes even within the same game line. (Star Wars imperial assault to legion was the fastest, but you can find scale creep everywhere.) 25mm is pretty much dead outside of LotR and boardgames like Zombicide.
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Nov 12, 2019 13:37
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moths posted:There's been an industry-wide shift from 25mm, someimes even within the same game line. (Star Wars imperial assault to legion was the fastest, but you can find scale creep everywhere.) I don't think you and I have the same definition of "obsolete". Obsolete implies it's been replaced by newer or better technology. There are a billion different scales that games use. Just because one game is in 25mm and other games are in 28 or 32, true or heroic, or some weird combination, doesn't mean that there's no reason to use 25mm or that it's like old tech we no longer have need of. I'm perfectly fine with LotR being its own thing so long as the quality is there. The Forge World examples are, uh, not that. The scale creep to 32 and 35mm has been really frustrating because they're harder to paint and they take up more space on the table and are harder to transport. I'm perfectly fine with 25-28mm. I can't really see this mattering unless you're playing a model agnostic system and some of the models look weird next to each other, but at that point no one is going to care all that much because people are just fielding whatever they have or feel like using that day.
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Nov 12, 2019 14:09
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What I mean is that 25mm is too small to do good hands, expressive faces, and distinct weapons. Because wargames manufacturers realize this, the industry has moved onto 28mm - 32mm. That's what I mean by obsolete: It's no longer the standard, and 25mm figures won't integrate with current figure lines. This was explicitly something New Line insisted on. It also partially explains why the FW LotR figures look like they do - sculptors accustomed to working in 28mm are trying to cram faces onto these dinky things with obvious results. Obsolete is a tricky term, agreed. Polaroid instant cameras are more or less obsolete outside of a few niche areas where they're invaluable. To someone in insurance or real-estate, quickly producing a physical photograph still has value. Likewise, some RPG and boardgame manufacturers still do 25mm! But for wargame purposes 25mm is nearly dead, having been utterly replaced with 28mm.
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Nov 12, 2019 15:41
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I still disagree that it's "obsolete" or can't look good. Yes, they insisted on it being different, but they wanted a distinct style from Warhammer and rightly or not they wanted to prevent players from readily mixing the lines. You can get perfectly good detail on 25mm and with CAD scale is irrelevant. But even with hand sculpted models, the Lord of the Rings line is largely fine. The real issue is that they are single piece models a lot of the time and that causes compromises in the molding process. Items that "wrap" over surfaces often blend into each other as a result. This has nothing to do with the scale though.
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Nov 13, 2019 00:09
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Atlas Hugged posted:I still disagree that it's "obsolete" or can't look good. I think obsolete in this context does apply. Heroic-scale 28mm (with exaggerated head sizes) or 32mm means its much easier to paint details, and in the hands of low-skill painters can look much better. 25mm is small enough to be hard to work with without the advantages of say, 15mm where the small size means people don't expect such details in the model.
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Nov 13, 2019 00:37
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Oddly enough, I actually love painting 25mm. I do most of my gaming and painting with 1/72 and 25mm non-heroic paints much the same way, just with a bigger canvas. 28mm heroic - especially as it blurs towards 32mm - doesn't.
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Nov 13, 2019 02:42
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I'll show yall something that's 25mm big and obsolete 
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Nov 13, 2019 04:21
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No-one wants to see your ossicles, Moola.
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Nov 13, 2019 08:24
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I would like to see Moola's ossicles.
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Nov 13, 2019 13:03
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Please keep your baculua to yourself.
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Nov 13, 2019 16:04
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They call him Count Baculua - the terror of Transylvania.
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Nov 13, 2019 18:12
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 What is this? A knight for ants?!
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Nov 14, 2019 02:56
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I think "unfashionable" would be a better term than Obsolete. Holy poo poo that knight looks like it has one of those little cermaic swiss villages on its back.
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Nov 14, 2019 04:49
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That makes me wonder if anyone's put Disney's Cinderella Castle on top of a titan yet.
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Nov 14, 2019 05:42
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Lost and Delusional posted:
Speaking of 15mm scale, that would be loving rad in a smaller sized game.
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Nov 14, 2019 06:53
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Atlas Hugged posted:they're harder to paint  All your other points are fine, but are you nuts? In my experience smaller models are excruciatingly harder to paint. Scale was actually part of why I got into Warmachine instead of Warhammer when I started the hobby, along with rules and a few other things. (Joke's on me, finding a game in my new town is impossible and Privateer has been poo poo lately anyway). I guess it might be preference, but seriously?
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Nov 14, 2019 07:00
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Smaller models are both harder and easier. They're harder in that you need better brush control for non-fine detail work, but easier in that the expectations are much lower and you can get away with more. Bigger models create more opportunity to do very fine detail work that is much harder. This is why I like 25mm. It's bigger than 1/72 but still paints largely the same - the same techniques, the same brush control, and the same stylistic conceits work fairly well on LotR figures when compared to 28mm WHFB.
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Nov 14, 2019 08:14
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| # ? May 25, 2024 02:42 |
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 Busts and 54mm are some of the hardest things to paint since the expected quality is astronomical. Putty and paint’s entries has both much higher highs and lower lows.
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Nov 14, 2019 13:56
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