|
Creepiest season yet. In my opinion it's worse on that front than Nicaragua, One World or Thailand. I at least got some enjoyment out of those seasons, this one is a mix of boring and unsettling. It's such a letdown after the fantastic Australia season that we just had.
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 20:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 19:23 |
|
|
IcePhoenix posted:lol you're overdramaticizing it by a lot Oh ok I remember that now.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 20:22
|
|
|
Aaron was giving off aggressive non-verbals during his speech, so it came across as a bit more than him just speaking. Also he had nothing to do with the situation and decided to vocalize his assessment, which is Beginner Mansplaining. I absolutely hated him after last night's episode because of how invalidating he was at tribal.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 20:23
|
|
|
AWarmBody posted:Aaron was giving off aggressive non-verbals during his speech, so it came across as a bit more than him just speaking. Also he had nothing to do with the situation and decided to vocalize his assessment, which is Beginner Mansplaining. I absolutely hated him after last night's episode because of how invalidating he was at tribal. yes all of this
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 20:23
|
|
|
Jamal was awesome at second tribal, hate he went home. I couldn't imagine having to sit through that tribal as Kellee and not be part of the conversation. Also note for future survivors, if you have 2 idols at merge, burn one the first tribal after merge no matter how safe you feel. Janet got screwed real hard for doing the right thing. Dan. He never said he was a touchy feely person, he said it was incidental touching for being close at camp. He never apologized for what he did that I remember, just apologizing for how he made others feel. Zero self-assessment of his actions. It makes me think Dan has been coached on how to talk without admitting liability in a civil suit. I want to give Missy and Elizabeth the benefit of the doubt and say that they were really in game mode and just didn't really consider how all this would look outside of the game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 20:47
|
|
|
Septimius posted:Creepiest season yet. In my opinion it's worse on that front than Nicaragua, One World or Thailand. I at least got some enjoyment out of those seasons, this one is a mix of boring and unsettling. It's such a letdown after the fantastic Australia season that we just had. Well they are going to be running an All Stars season early 2020  . So there will still be some good Survivor even with 39 sucks and 40 being a circle jerk.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 21:00
|
|
|
AWarmBody posted:Aaron was giving off aggressive non-verbals during his speech, so it came across as a bit more than him just speaking. Also he had nothing to do with the situation and decided to vocalize his assessment, which is Beginner Mansplaining. I absolutely hated him after last night's episode because of how invalidating he was at tribal. Yeah, the big part of it is that he flat out shut Janet down and when she said "you don't know everything" he came right back with "I know everything." He was being gross because he was acting like he had some kind of authority and deeper insight and started to "explain" why Janet was lying and making up stories to cover her rear end and he knows that because if they weren't lies he would have seen or heard something. Thats why Janal shut him down so hard and he had no response. I would have liked to see him acknowledge what he was apologizing for and verbalize why it was wrong the way Jamal did but at least he gave a straight up apology with equivocation. nerox posted:I want to give Missy and Elizabeth the benefit of the doubt and say that they were really in game mode and just didn't really consider how all this would look outside of the game. I think they've played a very ugly "paint a target" game all season so it was more convenient to blame Janet than to put it off on Kellee or defuse it another way, but who knows?
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 21:00
|
|
|
JesusSinfulHands posted:I typed out a long response but accidentally refreshed the page which unfortunately removed my entire post. To make it short I would like to see a statement that more proactively talks about how production will ensure that a situation like this never happens again, i.e. by clarifying the protocol by which players can be removed from the game for sexual harassment/assault, and/or steps to do this: One of the things Kass talked about last week on RHAP, and I'm paraphrasing very loosely because I have a poor memory, is that because so many of the production crew is male, it's hard for women to feel comfortable out there. Like imagine having to go to the bathroom and there's at least one man nearby. It's a really good listen and she has some great insight into the game. Here's a tweet from earlier in the season One factor: Cameramen are all men - more comaraderie and strategic angling to help men find them. Women are pulled for fewer confessionals leaving less “free” time away from camp to hunt. Gender of crew at camps should be considered. Hiding at Challenges levelizes the field a bit https://twitter.com/KassMcQ/status/1176892478714085376
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 21:00
|
|
|
nerox posted:I want to give Missy and Elizabeth the benefit of the doubt and say that they were really in game mode and just didn't really consider how all this would look outside of the game. I can agree with this but how it did look was really bad I hope they post something akin to Aaron's video apology because he went from super-slime to just standard bro-slime in my mind because of owning it
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 21:01
|
|
|
Between the du-rag and this, this season has been really good about portraying what it's like to be a minority, and also shows just how far people will go to get ahead. Yeah, Missy and Elizabeth threw Kellee and Janet under the bus because they spied an opportunity to get themselves ahead for a million dollars in a game, but if you think that isn't happening in "real life" you're deluding yourself. It's quite possible that Dan gets inappropriate with women all the time at his job, but if you're a vulnerable young actress/whatever he represents, then who knows what you'll tolerate to get a job in Hollywood. And if they don't complain to anyone, how is he to know if he did anything wrong (given the very generous assumption he's not aware he's doing something wrong). Even here, Kellee was trying to Not Make It A Thing despite how uncomfortable she was, because she knew it would damage her game. If you're grossed out by this season of Survivor you should be, but don't blame it on the show that this happened. Survivor is a reflection of society, and this happens all the time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 21:12
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:I can agree with this but how it did look was really bad Yeah, I'm not sure I can give either of the benefit of the doubt because of the way Elizabeth immediately told Dan that of course she told Janet that stuff because she didn't want to rock the boat or was just agreeing to appease Janet or whatever her exact reason was after Janet confronted them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 21:16
|
|
|
I agree with everyone saying what Missy and Elizabeth did was a very bad thing. I am just saying that they probably didn't [in]intentionally[/i] coop the #metoo movement for a game move, they were just thinking completely in game. I saw someone say Missy and Elizabeth were quiet on twitter. Dan's twitter is hidden except for followers, was it always like that? With Elizabeth being an olympian, I am more shocked she didn't think of the bigger picture since I am sure she is friends or at least acquaintances of someone affected on the US Gymnasts team.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 21:24
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:If you're grossed out by this season of Survivor you should be, but don't blame it on the show that this happened. Survivor is a reflection of society, and this happens all the time. This is a very good point. This season more than ever proves how Survivor is pretty representative of the culture at large, and if you see something gross on Survivor it's because that gross thing is everywhere in our culture and if you don't see it you should recognize your privilege and also how many people don't share it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 21:39
|
|
|
nerox posted:With Elizabeth being an olympian, I am more shocked she didn't think of the bigger picture since I am sure she is friends or at least acquaintances of someone affected on the US Gymnasts team. My reaction is the opposite, because she's an olympian it wouldn't shock me if she's got a "don't rock the boat" mentality and has been desensitized to stuff like that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 21:48
|
|
|
At first I thought Lauren was lying about Kellee targeting Missy because Kelley would never be so heartless.  Then Missy showed she loving deserved to get knifed like that.The second episode needed flashbacks edited in so the producers could bury these liars. What a disaster. Good episode for Jeff at least. He looked like a loving saint next to these ghouls.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 22:16
|
|
|
I do feel a little bit bad for Missy here because I think she was being very genuine about feeling uncomfortable with Dan in that conversation with Kellee, and then Lauren coming to her immediately after and saying that Kellee was gunning for her rocked her a lot and made her suspicious of Kellee. And then after the vote when Dan approached her and Elizabeth, I can see that she may have not quite known how to say directly to Dan "yes you make me uncomfortable" and panicked and denied it, and then things snowballed really hard, combined with the strategy aspects of it. She definitely made mistakes and should apologise to Janet, but I can see how she ended up there. Elizabeth I have no real justification for. edit: Janet and Kellee have tweeted about it: https://twitter.com/Carbin39/status/1194954120442105858 https://twitter.com/kellee_kim/status/1194939056519430144 Metis of the Chat Thread fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Nov 14, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 23:07
|
|
|
professor metis posted:I do feel a little bit bad for Missy here because I think she was being very genuine about feeling uncomfortable with Dan in that conversation with Kellee, and then Lauren coming to her immediately after and saying that Kellee was gunning for her rocked her a lot and made her suspicious of Kellee. This was my read on it, especially since it was only 1 or 2 episodes ago that new Volkai all got together to talk poo poo about Dan when he wasn't there.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 23:15
|
|
|
professor metis posted:I do feel a little bit bad for Missy here because I think she was being very genuine about feeling uncomfortable with Dan in that conversation with Kellee, and then Lauren coming to her immediately after and saying that Kellee was gunning for her rocked her a lot and made her suspicious of Kellee. I'm sympathetic to her because Dan's actions were wrong and put Missy, Kellee, Janet, and anyone else in a more difficult position. And I'm somewhat sympathetic to Missy on the grounds that she maybe thought Kellee was manipulating her and being as fake as she was about the Dan stuff (however fake that she might have been). But its tough to extend that sympathy once Elizabeth and Janet enter the equation.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 23:21
|
|
|
I do think (or like to think) that Elizabeth wasn't aware of how much Kellee was affected by Dan and that she would have done something otherwise. But man, I would not want to be her (or Missy, or Aaron) on social media for a while after this episode. Also, I'm torn on whether I want Dan to be voted out immediately but then Kellee has to see him every day at Ponderosa, or he gets purpled and dragged to the end but gets more prize money out of it. Urgh.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 23:24
|
|
|
Its entirely possible none of them knew how much Kellee was affected since the big moment for her was when she broke down during her confessional and the producer offered to get involved. Kellee seemed to be swallowing that stuff all game and only seemed to open up when Missy and Elizabeth started reciprocating and made Kellee think it was a group issue and not just hers. But there in lies the complication since we know that to some extent or another Missy and Elizabeth were manipulating her. But then of course it gets more complicated when we consider that they might have thought Kellee was doing the same thing to them. Like I said, I think the moment it starts to get less complicated and "the villains" start to reveal themselves is after Kellee's gone and when they start scapegoating Janet and painting her as the manipulator. Especially since it was so clear Janet was only ever willing to vote out Dan because she wanted to support the younger women. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Nov 14, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 23:30
|
|
|
I do think that Janet makes it very difficult to completely buy innocence, since I get that it's Survivor and all, but you could not think in Missy/Elizabeth's shoes that Janet was 'playing' Dan during the four-way confrontation on the beach. It's very difficult for them in a game position, because immediately turning around and going, 'You're right, Janet, Dan, you're vile and I wish we voted you out last night' wouldn't be what I'd have expected, either. But I think the fact that they both immediately stayed and comforted Dan instead of Janet says something, despite the heat of the moment. I'm gonna give the rest of the season the smallest glimmer of hope (maybe), since Aaron was really sincere in his apology and I'm really hoping that Dan takes some very important lessons from this. But Tommy/Lauren have not been reacting well to this on social media and I think Missy hasn't said anything (last I checked).
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 23:36
|
|
|
I feel like Missy and Elizabeth could have scapegoated Kellee and it would have been gross and bad but in that case I think we'd maybe be more sympathetic to their need to cover their games with Dan in that moment and there still would have been enough question about Kellee's motivations (from their perspective) to give them some benefit of the doubt. Their problem was that Janet just got real and was laying it all out so either out of desperation or panic or whatever they just went straight to "she's a liar and is manipulating all of this!"
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2019 23:49
|
|
|
It doesn't surprise me that Missy could feel uncomfortable because of Dan while still trying to manipulate the situation like that. It's an easy way to feel in control where she might not feel in control otherwise (i.e. creepy old dude keeps touching her, making her feel powerless). The move also allowed her to feel in control without displaying vulnerability to other players (like going with an "emotional vote" may). It makes sense, but it's still gross.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 01:17
|
|
|
Elizabeth spent her whole life in the USA Swimming program so I’m sure what Dan did was like a regular weekday afternoon for her. Her being desensitized to it was the least shocking thing to me.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 01:34
|
|
|
Lauren and Tommy have apologized along with Aaron. The key people in it (e.g. Dan, Missy, and Elizabeth) have been silent https://twitter.com/LaurenAshBeck/status/1195125442451144704 https://twitter.com/TommySheehan22/status/1195108036685291520
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 01:42
|
|
|
I dunno about Tommy’s apology since it still has a bit of the Aaron ‘if I’d known I’d have done something about it’ air at TC, but eh. I wouldn’t be surprised if Dan is just on a social media embargo right now. Plus I’m sure he’s doing a lot of damage control with his clients.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 01:52
|
|
|
I don't like Tommy or Lauren but I don't have much weight on them for last night as I do Dan, Aaron, Missy and Elizabeth. I think its reasonable to give Tommy, Lauren, Elaine, Aaron*, and Dean** the benefit of the doubt that they weren't really keyed into everything that was happening with the ladies and Dan so for them it really may have just been a case of game threats with maybe a touch of "Dan's been sketching the ladies out." I think I'm willing to give them the pass until we see otherwise that they just didn't realize it was as big a deal as Kellee, Missy, and Elizabeth were presenting to Janet. That might not be the case. Its possible they knew Kellee was upset and that Missy and Elizabeth were manipulating her and that Janet was just trying to do the right thing. But like... if anyone gets the benefit of the doubt I think its them. *Aaron obviously did bad in the next tribal when he was talking down to Janet and calling her a liar and Jamal had to shut him up, and owed that apology for that. **Dean was kind of lovely not paying back Kellee saving him the tribal before but that's a different, much less serious matter. I actually think lost in all this Kellee probably made a couple of big game mistakes dismissing Tommy's ideas for an alliance and lying to Missy and letting Lauren go to her. She seemed to take Tommy and Lauren for granted as OG tribemates and while she was right not to want Tommy's idea she obviously could have played that better instead of just shutting him down. Kellee screwed up and the vote flipped on her. She then screwed up and didn't use an idol. And the sleaziness around it all overshadowed that. The game just got all overshadowed by the sleaze but I'm willing to give most of those people the benefit of the doubt that Kellee just misplayed them and lost their votes and the Dan thing was on their periphery. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Nov 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 02:46
|
|
|
Production should have removed Dan from the game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 02:59
|
|
|
AdmiralViscen posted:Production should have removed Dan from the game. Yeah I do think that, rather than asking Kellee "if you want him gone, you can tell us," they should have taken that as her telling them, and made the decision themselves. Leaving it up to her in that way was not good.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 03:01
|
|
|
AdmiralViscen posted:Production should have removed Dan from the game. This so much. The worst part was him explaining how he was horrified if he made any one uncomfortable and it was just being in close quarters then proceeds to grab Noura as an "example." Dude is a legit predator.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 03:18
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:I dunno about Tommy’s apology since it still has a bit of the Aaron ‘if I’d known I’d have done something about it’ air at TC, but eh. I don't know why Tommy has to apologize or why he's getting so much poo poo on twitter it seems. Am I forgetting something he said in the episode or are people on twitter forgetting he didn't have the same information the viewers have during the season?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 03:53
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I actually think lost in all this Kellee probably made a couple of big game mistakes dismissing Tommy's ideas for an alliance and lying to Missy and letting Lauren go to her. She seemed to take Tommy and Lauren for granted as OG tribemates and while she was right not to want Tommy's idea she obviously could have played that better instead of just shutting him down. Kellee screwed up and the vote flipped on her. She then screwed up and didn't use an idol. And the sleaziness around it all overshadowed that. I got a bad vibe actually when after last episode Kellee made a move against Jack because he was a big threat, then this week she started gunning for Missy because she was a big threat. You're playing waaay too hard too fast girl, you can't do that unless you're Tony Vlachos with a super idol. She definitely got complacent from being in a position of influence for a while then getting 3 idols. Missy and Elizabeth have also now apologized. https://twitter.com/themissybyrd/status/1195145200072413185?s=19 (image is too big, just click the link) https://i.redd.it/nstfnoafhry31.jpg
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 03:57
|
|
|
professor metis posted:Yeah I do think that, rather than asking Kellee "if you want him gone, you can tell us," they should have taken that as her telling them, and made the decision themselves. Leaving it up to her in that way was not good. According to Jeff, that producer told him about it, he talked to CBS, and that's when they pulled Dan aside and gave him a warning along with checking with everyone about it one-on-one. So they did go on to make those decisions based on that confessional, at least.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 03:59
|
|
|
JesusSinfulHands posted:(image is too big, just click the link) jesus what a poorly placed ad beneath that
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 04:00
|
|
|
thexerox123 posted:According to Jeff, that producer told him about it, he talked to CBS, and that's when they pulled Dan aside and gave him a warning along with checking with everyone about it one-on-one. Yea but then they let Dan play dumb to the whole thing and say it was just about being cold in the rain, and his victimhood propelled people out of the game for siding against him. They should have taken him out of the game not just for the safety and comfort of the other contestants, but to avoid exactly what happened.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 04:29
|
|
|
Apologies like this are very good even if they aren't completely heartfelt (and I'm not saying they aren't, that judgement is just entirely bedside my point) They obviously at least know what the right thing to say is and what the correct position is here and they're saying it, and that's an important reinforcement of a positive cultural norm.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 04:29
|
|
|
Aaron also made a part 2 of his apology: https://twitter.com/ACM_Fitness/status/1195042322322534400
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 05:25
|
|
|
nerox posted:Dan. He never said he was a touchy feely person, he said it was incidental touching for being close at camp. He never apologized for what he did that I remember, just apologizing for how he made others feel. Zero self-assessment of his actions. It makes me think Dan has been coached on how to talk without admitting liability in a civil suit. He never came close to apologizing, only did that bullshit "I'm sorry you thought that..." that places blame on the actual victims. If it was just normal stuff from being close at camp, he'd be touching the guys, too, and the women would be saying all of the guys inappropriately touched them. Funny how this has never been an issue before him, but it's supposed to be something that happens to everyone. His constant denial, trying to get Jeff to change the topic, etc was as gross to me as the actual touching was, if not more so.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 06:16
|
|
|
Obviously I don’t know what Dan was told, but his actions sure as poo poo made it seem like someone came up to him and just said “hey stop touching people around the camp” nonchalantly instead actually addressing the problem. The real issue is Production not straightening this out earlier in the season when it first happened.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 06:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 19:23 |
|
|
e:nm
Propaganda Machine fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Nov 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2019 09:35
|
|
