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El Chupacabras posted:Article 168 of the bolivian constitution, look it up. Overruled by Article 13 of the Bolivian Constitution, look it up. E: This dude actually gives off some real strong "Area man passionate defender of what he imagines the constitution to be" vibes.
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Nov 15, 2019 22:10
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El Chupacabras posted:There was an interview with the company that was hired by the electoral court to audit the IT side of the process, they said that there were so many irregularities in the process (including direct access to the database) that there was no way to say the end results were the real ones.
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Nov 15, 2019 22:11
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El Chupacabras posted:I’m siding, as many people are, with the right to have free elections where my vote really counts. I don’t know why you have to support a lovely thing somebody does (like stealing an election) if you consider them to be on “your side” that “he’s a piece of poo poo, but he’s OUR piece of poo poo mentality’ doesn’t go along with me. Bolsonaro is an enemy of democracy, as he is an enemy of the poor, the black, the woman, the indigenous, the environment. Yeah, a sizeble portion of the brazilians are really awful people, nobody can deny anymore, but his election was made possible by the arrenst of Lula, the criminalization of PT by the judiciary and press, and finally by a massive fake news campaing in social networks. If you believe our elections were fair and normal, you are grossly misinformed And no, you are not siding with "free elections". You dont know if they are coming, you cant know. What we do know is that these people now in power have the military and the money and Trump at their side, so if elections are held or not, and how, is totally up tio their good will. And that they are some pretty horrible people, literal nazis. Thats what you are siding with
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Nov 15, 2019 22:12
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El Chupacabras, I am going to assume your good intentions, so here we go 1- You present fairly standard practices as completely insidious. So, for example, you present polls having to register themselves with the electoral court as if it is something completely nefarious, when in fact it is pretty standard practice across the globe. Even the UMSA polls, which were heavily criticized by Morales supporters, still showed him with a commanding lead. 2- You wildly stretch the findings of the OAS audit. The OAS audit at most shows that there was going to be a run off, not that Evo lost. 3- Even if you think that the OAS audit wildly undercounted the fraud, that still doesn't explain why the currently serving legislature has to be prevented from meeting, how Anez can claim first the presidency of congress and then the presidency of the country, how she does not need a quorum for any of that, and what authority she has to replace the military leadership and cabinet. 4- If you think that Evo was such a threat that the extra constitutional remedies were required, that is still a coup. You may think it is a justified coup, but it is still a coup. Of course, the question then becomes why incredibly racist politicians are somehow preferrable. 5- Bolsonaro won the election. But he won an election where Lula wasn't allowed to run, because the judge that was in charge of the case against Lula and found him guilty was negotiating a seat in Bolsonaro's government even as the election was still going on.
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Nov 15, 2019 22:12
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Elias_Maluco posted:Bolsonaro is an enemy of democracy, as he is an enemy of the poor, the black, the woman, the indigenous, the environment. Yeah, a sizeble portion of the brazilians are really awful people, nobody can deny anymore, but his election was made possible by the arrenst of Lula, the criminalization of PT by the judiciary and press, and finally by a massive fake news campaing in social networks. If you believe our elections were fair and normal, you are grossly misinformed
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Nov 15, 2019 22:13
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El Chupacabras posted:Also, if most of the people chose Bolsonaro, so what? That’s the beauty of democracy, if he does a bad job in the next election you can vote him out. Bolsonaro said in one of his Live feeds on Facebook that he wouldn't respect election results if he lost in the 2018 elections, and he did spend most of the election cycle talking about election fraud. He's 200% going to dispute an election result that doesn't favor him in 2022 if he's still president.
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Nov 15, 2019 22:13
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And yep, Im totally for "he is not perfect but he is our guy" when the other guy is a Bolsonaro, or a Camacho, or a Jeanine Áñez
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Nov 15, 2019 22:15
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It's pretty funny how El Chupacabras' talking points are exactly the same as the "first Dilma, then the others" crew here in Brazil. Also some people said the projected pools weren't giving Evo a first-round win anyway? I can't find a decent source confirming or denying that claim.
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Nov 15, 2019 22:16
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El Chupacabras posted:Since you are resorting to name calling I retire.
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Nov 15, 2019 22:17
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Dias posted:It's pretty funny how El Chupacabras' talking points are exactly the same as the "first Dilma, then the others" crew here in Brazil. Not even OAS disputed that Morales got the most votes in the first round and their loving job is to unseat people like Morales.
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Nov 15, 2019 22:20
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I rephrased that and kinda forgot to switch "weren't" for "were", I meant that I heard people say the projected results pointed towards a first round victory for Evo, but I can't find anything confirming or denying that poo poo.
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Nov 15, 2019 22:23
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Hi, don't waste time honestly debating fascists because they are only holding the thinnest veneer of discussing in good faith to suit their own needs and you owe them nothing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-rRtMgsYnc
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Nov 15, 2019 22:30
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You have to be a goddamn galaxy brain to be Latin American and not get how the right wing neoliberals work at this point. I mean, you've got Macri, you've got Bolsonaro, you've got Piñera, and now you've got this. All in the span of just what, two or three years. I mean goddamn can it be any more blatant, and still you've got so many goddamn people saying "yeah but look at the TYRANT LEFTIE, vamo Macri zi ze puede"
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Nov 15, 2019 22:31
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Dias posted:I rephrased that and kinda forgot to switch "weren't" for "were", I meant that I heard people say the projected results pointed towards a first round victory for Evo, but I can't find anything confirming or denying that poo poo. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~wmebane/Bolivia2019.pdf also there was this report from the CEPR BEAR GRYLLZ fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Nov 15, 2019 |
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Nov 15, 2019 22:39
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Pochoclo posted:You have to be a goddamn galaxy brain to be Latin American and not get how the right wing neoliberals work at this point. I mean, you've got Macri, you've got Bolsonaro, you've got Piñera, and now you've got this. All in the span of just what, two or three years. I mean goddamn can it be any more blatant, and still you've got so many goddamn people saying "yeah but look at the TYRANT LEFTIE, vamo Macri zi ze puede" Just call 'em fascists. Neoliberals are the ones who lay the path to fascism and then get surprised when they're purged and nobody stands up for them.
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Nov 15, 2019 22:42
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BEAR GRYLLZ posted:http://www-personal.umich.edu/~wmebane/Bolivia2019.pdf Nice, these are good. It's one of the first things people get fixated on and I feel like it's undeniably a coup when your best argument is "they frauded an election that they were going to win".
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Nov 15, 2019 22:44
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This seems very even handed and democratic https://twitter.com/Guaitafran/status/1195455559723618304
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Nov 15, 2019 22:51
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Spice World War II posted:This seems very even handed and democratic Im glad they got rid of the authoritarian guy, now things can get back to normal
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Nov 15, 2019 23:08
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https://twitter.com/joshua__frank/status/1195394177070092289
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Nov 15, 2019 23:11
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Inshallah the people will whup the rear end of the fascist scum and throw their little pretend government out on its rear end.
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Nov 15, 2019 23:13
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Huh. Okay.
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Nov 15, 2019 23:14
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I suppose the response shown in the other tweet could be in reaction to this. It's good that the people have managed to arm themselves.
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Nov 15, 2019 23:17
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I would like to believe the positive news, but the only actual footage I can find is mostly footage of the police who couldn't protect indigenous schools or hospitals for weeks suddenly finding all their equipment and using it like the sadistic fascists they are https://twitter.com/Guaitafran/status/1195445047895973888
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Nov 15, 2019 23:18
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https://mobile.twitter.com/Southcom/status/1195373681800822784
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Nov 15, 2019 23:24
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In a just world this would violate Twitter’s TOS as an implied threat.
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Nov 15, 2019 23:42
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El Chupacabras posted:Like Mark Twain said “presidents and diapers must be changed often”. I hate this saying so much.
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Nov 15, 2019 23:59
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Earlier today already the part of my family living in Cochabamba reported that they had massive police/military presence. Now this happened: https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1195463866261671944 If you check the thread, everyone in those videos deserved it because they are terrorists. Democracy at work
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Nov 16, 2019 00:00
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Spice World War II posted:Earlier today already the part of my family living in Cochabamba reported that they had massive police/military presence. Now this happened: thank heaven we have been saved from the authoritarian Morales, by the fine people who did this. right, Wobbuffet
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Nov 16, 2019 00:07
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https://mobile.twitter.com/jmkarg/status/1195448438906859520 Lots of orderly transition to democracy going down in Cochabamba. Edit: oh poo poo that other link 
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Nov 16, 2019 00:13
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Fascists larping as liberals and actual liberals (often pretty much the same thing) like to pretend their made up interpretation of the "rule of law" and "due process" is more important than human lives. Thousands of indiginous people might be slaughtered and millions more condemned to worsening poverty, but the alternative is ignoring vague accusations of electoral irregularities and NOTHING is more sacred than that. Sometimes a society has to sacrifice in order to preserve the sanctity of democracy, and it looks like this time the cost is democracy its self and the ushering in of a fascist police state. But please, believe me, the concerned liberal, that the alternative would have been worse. Ignoring baseless allegations of democratic funny business is something only power-hungry dictators do.
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Nov 16, 2019 00:16
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Liberalism pretty much only exists because of "fascists larping as liberals" in the first place.
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Nov 16, 2019 00:29
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I think what really gets me is that centrists will usually defend the "least bad option", y'know, the safe neoliberal rear end in a top hat option, but when faced with a choice between a leftist consolidating power in a way that might make them a bit uncomfortable and an opposition that LITERALLY HAS NEO-NAZIS ON THEIR SIDE, they are completely fine with the latter. You'd think keeping the not-optimal status quo would be the move, but no, literal neo-nazis.
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Nov 16, 2019 00:29
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Bob le Moche posted:Liberalism pretty much only exists because of "fascists larping as liberals" in the first place. I'd rather you die on your feet than than live on my dime - The Liberal Revolutionary
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Nov 16, 2019 00:40
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Odd how both Bolivians Who Really Care About The Rule Of Law have somehow failed to acknowledge MAS congresspeople being forcibly prevented from attending parliament, or the existence of Luis Fernando Camacho whatsoever 🤔 El Chupacabras, if you didn't get too mad from being called names, how would you describe Camacho and his gang? Would you categorize him under "never heard of him  " or under "Oligarchic, christian fundamentalist cruceño with proven links to fascist groups that literally sport swastikas and use sieg heil salutes??? great name for a metal band, guys  "
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Nov 16, 2019 01:21
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Police tear gassing Al Jazeera journalist reporting on the protests https://twitter.com/TeresaBo/status/1195485067918954497
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Nov 16, 2019 01:36
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  What's that sign they're making? Haven't seen it before. Just a local version of the sign of the cross?
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Nov 16, 2019 01:39
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I'm legit curious too, that's not a thing in Brazil and I don't think it's a thing in Argentina/Uruguay. alternatively it's just the MINI HANGLOOSE 
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Nov 16, 2019 01:49
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Elias_Maluco posted:Thats pretty uncalled for, dude not a fan of people just dropping in to say this is no coup (and military backed to boot), especially this being in latinamerica, a place with history of this happening over and over.
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Nov 16, 2019 02:58
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RIP Syndrome posted:What's that sign they're making? Haven't seen it before. Just a local version of the sign of the cross? north american nazis have been using the 'ok' sign as a fascist hand signal in the past few years.
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Nov 16, 2019 03:04
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GoluboiOgon posted:north american nazis have been using the 'ok' sign as a fascist hand signal in the past few years. I don’t think that makes sense, when used in that fashion they almost universally hold their hands differently (thumb and forefinger tip to tip, fingers spread wide) and they tend to make stupid wink wink type expressions. It’s definitely possible but it looks off.
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Nov 16, 2019 03:08
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