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Was umming and arring about doing some door knocking for this election, read some of the stories in this thread and beginning to feel upbeat about it. Then tonight as I turn the corner to my road I meet a group of Labour door-knockers, said hello and signed up! Cheers UKMT. e: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkOAiyLHXM8
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Nov 16, 2019 01:25
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Be careful how you phrase it I guess but like, this is political, this is a political decision to turn over housing to private, profit seeking entities and to deregulate the sector practically or legally so they can build deathtraps that burn people alive, and then to say "that's just the way it is. We can't have anything else, that'd be ideological" It is political, it is specifically political murder, and the bastards need to be made to defend that.
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Nov 16, 2019 01:25
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OwlFancier posted:Be careful how you phrase it I guess but like, this is political, this is a political decision to turn over housing to private, profit seeking entities and to deregulate the sector practically or legally so they can build deathtraps that burn people alive, and then to say "that's just the way it is. We can't have anything else, that'd be ideological" Definitely, yeah. Openly suggesting that any potential deaths are good for Corbyn is dodgy phrasing best avoided though.
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Nov 16, 2019 01:29
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:Check my mentions on twitter, who are basically saying that Corbyn set the building alight himself
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Nov 16, 2019 01:29
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https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/456054/response/1120216/attach/3/Post%20Grenfell%20Inspection%20Programme.xlsxPost-Grenfell Inspection Programme posted:Premises Title: THE CUBE 85 - 93 BRADSHAWGATE quote:The South Street team worked with developers to ensure this refurbishment of an empty office block into high quality student housing reached full occupancy quickly.
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Nov 16, 2019 01:30
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What happened with the inspections that happened after Grenfell? I seem to remember there were a bunch of cases where people paying insane leasehold rates were being told they had to pay to have the cladding on their buildings made safe because the leaseholders were refusing to handle it themselves, dismissing the one chance leasehold could ever have of being anything other than a free money scheme for parasites. But I haven't heard about any of the work actually being done, just stuff about people in very similar London towers living in absolute terror. Have any of these deathtraps actually been fixed? e: Ah, perfect timing ^^
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Nov 16, 2019 01:33
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TACD posted:he was probably trying to set up the broadband and got into the mains wiring by accident on my second batch of training to fix printers, on the first day of the course I managed to get one to short circuit and smoke really badly. Even the trainer guy didn't know it was possible
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Nov 16, 2019 01:34
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OwlFancier posted:https://twitter.com/nickscottuk/status/1195452308945018881 Obviously impossible to tell for certain but that looks a *lot* like molten aluminium which suggests it's the same kind of cladding as at Grenfell. Would explain why the fire's apparently jumping between buildings. From the looks of it the fire started near the top of the building which would seem to be the only saving grace, and it seems like they managed to evacuate everyone safely, thank gently caress.
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Nov 16, 2019 01:36
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https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/15375081.amp/?__twitter_impression=true "Students assured that flats at The Cube, in Bradshawgate, do not have same dangerous cladding as Grenfell Tower"
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Nov 16, 2019 01:40
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Scikar posted:What happened with the inspections that happened after Grenfell? I seem to remember there were a bunch of cases where people paying insane leasehold rates were being told they had to pay to have the cladding on their buildings made safe because the leaseholders were refusing to handle it themselves, dismissing the one chance leasehold could ever have of being anything other than a free money scheme for parasites. But I haven't heard about any of the work actually being done, just stuff about people in very similar London towers living in absolute terror. Have any of these deathtraps actually been fixed? One small data point, but the three ex-council blocks in Tower Hamlets with this cladding are now in the process of replacement*. The problem is that the majority of this cladding is on new-builds and private refurbs, which is where you get these stories about leaseholders having to pay tens of thousands of pounds or the freeholders just straight-up refusing to replace them. * "thankfully" LBTH stock was so poo poo they had to replace the outer panels on almost all of the blocks in the 90s and almost all of them got brick or concrete because no clever bastard had come up with the idea of flammable cladding yet.
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Nov 16, 2019 01:41
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Pochoclo posted:Where do they get that "STATE MONOPOLY = NO INNOVATION" poo poo? don't be silly, nasa is part of the military-industrial complex, so obviously it's allowed and ok. unlike all the other govt poo poo that doesn't even kill people
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Nov 16, 2019 01:42
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It's very fortunate that the fire didn't start 2-3 hours later as people would probably be a lot more drunk / asleep and less likely to evacuate quickly at that point.Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/456054/response/1120216/attach/3/Post%20Grenfell%20Inspection%20Programme.xlsx So this means that the owners of the building knew that it wasn't safe and haven't got round to fixing it? I'm assuming that's what "Notification of Deficiencies" means.
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Nov 16, 2019 01:42
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OwlFancier posted:https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/15375081.amp/?__twitter_impression=true full foi for that prior report: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/high_rise_compliance_checks_sinc RabidWeasel posted:It's very fortunate that the fire didn't start 2-3 hours later as people would probably be a lot more drunk / asleep and less likely to evacuate quickly at that point.
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Nov 16, 2019 01:44
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End of the day the evidence the building was unsafe is the fact that it went up like a loving Roman Candle. That should never happen. Fire doors. Compartmentalisation. Sprinklers. We know this poo poo works, we've been able to build a virtually fireproof highrise for decades. For fire to spread that quickly and completely the building was most definitely not safe, regardless of what the fire inspection said.
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Nov 16, 2019 01:53
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I was more going with the relevant point being the students being assured it was safe, when clearly it was not. Tories and their pals lying through their teeth and burning people alive to avoid the slightest hint of financial cost.
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Nov 16, 2019 01:54
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OwlFancier posted:I was more going with the relevant point being the students being assured it was safe, when clearly it was not. Tories and their pals lying through their teeth and burning people alive to avoid the slightest hint of financial cost. Most of the pushback I've gotten is "Well it was a Labour Council who built it, so it's they're fault", and I'm pretty sure that building safety regulations are a national matter for national government but no, Corbyn built and torched this building
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Nov 16, 2019 02:04
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Where's that infuriating video of a presenter saying "WELL THEN ISNT IT YOUR FAULT?!"
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Nov 16, 2019 02:06
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There's going to be plenty of time to blame this fire on negligent developers and Tories when it inevitably comes out they're responsible, but I do feel like we should go through the motion of at least waiting for the evidence to appear first. I'm sure it won't be long.
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Nov 16, 2019 02:14
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https://twitter.com/aprilgrierson_/status/1195498748627030017 I'm not an expert on fires but it's hard to see how you would get this intensity/uniformity if it was just the soft furnishings inside people's flats going up. It's absolutely pouring out of every window, I hope to God nobody was left inside. EDIT: Even if this wasn't the cladding, I hope Corbyn goes hard on the Tory refusal to mandate sprinkler systems in high-rise buildings. There has *never* been a multi-casualty fire in a building protected by a working sprinkler system, but they continue to build schools and apartment blocks without them. jabby fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Nov 16, 2019 |
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Nov 16, 2019 02:16
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Have you ever set a sofa on fire? I used to live on a poor estate. Someone had fly tipped a sofa into a bit of wasteland around here, and we had nothing better to do. I tell you now It's wild. Flames at least 15ft high.
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Nov 16, 2019 02:26
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Don't you get it, it's because the market is too regulated. We need more freedom and the invisible hand of the market will install sprinklers and remove the thermite cladding.
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Nov 16, 2019 02:27
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Joda posted:Don't you get it, it's because the market is too regulated. We need more freedom and the invisible hand of the market will install sprinklers and remove the thermite cladding. megan mcardle who bought you an SA account.
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Nov 16, 2019 02:32
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Azza Bamboo posted:Have you ever set a sofa on fire? Not on the modern stuff though, it's all fire-retardant now. Can't imagine many students have decades-old furniture as opposed to cheap (but safe) Ikea stuff.
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Nov 16, 2019 02:36
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goddamnedtwisto posted:One small data point, but the three ex-council blocks in Tower Hamlets with this cladding are now in the process of replacement*. It was present on Plymouth's 3 largest social housing blocks, Devonport Towers. Despite the government swearing to fund any removal of the cladding immediately after Grenfell they refused to release the funds for over a year, instead trying to force the council to fund it (having already slashed their budget by over 40% at that point). The local MP campaigned and raised the point at PMQs iirc, and eventually the government covered the full cost and work began this year. Utter poo poo show, total disregard for tenant safety, standard procedure for Tory scum.
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Nov 16, 2019 02:36
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jabby posted:Not on the modern stuff though, it's all fire-retardant now. Can't imagine many students have decades-old furniture as opposed to cheap (but safe) Ikea stuff. Isn't there a temperature where that stuff packs in? I don't mean the brand brand new stuff that youtubers like to attack with blowtorches for the views, but the old stuff that's just for preventing a few fagends on the sofa from starting a fire.
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Nov 16, 2019 02:43
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Azza Bamboo posted:Isn't there a temperature where that stuff packs in? I don't mean the brand brand new stuff that youtubers like to attack with blowtorches for the views, but the old stuff that's just for preventing a few fagends on the sofa from starting a fire. Anything will burn if it gets hot enough. Fire retardant stuff is a bit more resistant, but in a closed room it'll go up regardless after a while
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Nov 16, 2019 02:56
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Who was that guy who came in and explained fire safety to the thread after Grenfell? We need him back.
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Nov 16, 2019 03:10
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Azza Bamboo posted:Isn't there a temperature where that stuff packs in? I don't mean the brand brand new stuff that youtubers like to attack with blowtorches for the views, but the old stuff that's just for preventing a few fagends on the sofa from starting a fire. Dunno really. I know it shouldn't sustain a flame by itself. Basically I'm in the camp of really hoping the Tories take the blame for this even if it's nothing to do with them. Feels pretty bad to be thinking that while the place is still on fire and we don't know if anyone has been hurt, but that's where the current government has got me to.
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Nov 16, 2019 03:18
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Pershing posted:Who was that guy who came in and explained fire safety to the thread after Grenfell? We need him back. Oh yeah I know who you mean, seen him around occasionally and I think they've still got the "Official UKMT Fire Marshal" av. Just hoping we haven't got any loss of life in this, totally enraging but unsurprising that the Tories have continued to gently caress around and not do anything about this poo poo, and have lied and helped others lie about it. e; ^^^ Even if the tories were somehow fully free of all blame for this particular incident, they've been playing fast and loose with national standards for decades and clearly give less than zero fucks about the literal lives of the paups. No need to give them any benefit of the doubt. (Also I mean they've had central government for nearly a decade now, they've had abundant time and power to take whatever measures are needed to get landlords and building companies in line) Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Nov 16, 2019 |
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Nov 16, 2019 03:35
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https://twitter.com/mr_elise__/status/1195511860784705536 https://twitter.com/_melissa2001/status/1195508250701119488 https://twitter.com/kateway_25/status/1195508064386002944
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Nov 16, 2019 03:40
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loving christ. If everyone makes it out alive it's gonna be a loving miracle at this rate.
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Nov 16, 2019 04:15
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"If our buildings regs are this bad wait till jeremy corbyns PM" Tomorrows front page of the sun
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Nov 16, 2019 04:17
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I mean with the occupants being students, i.e. the children of white, middle class people, this is going to be a lot tougher to ignore.
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Nov 16, 2019 04:37
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love Corbyn, would vote for Corbyn if I wasn’t currently living in Yankeestan. Hope everyone in those towers ends up okay, and that they live long and Tory-free lives. I’ve been lurking for a year and still don’t know how to get an avatar. Don’t want to see Trumps ugly mug when I sign in.
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Nov 16, 2019 04:40
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The "new avatar" button at the top of the forum page.
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Nov 16, 2019 04:44
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guess I’ll get when when I can afford it. A coworker of mine is like, a former Tory and he says that conservative constituency campaign groups or whatever they’re called are either atrophied or filled with 50 year old purple party entryists, and that’s why he’s the only person I know who thinks Labour will win the next election. Does campaigning really swing elections like that? It would be sweet if a little (whatever the foot version of elbow grease is) managed to stymie Murdoch and his media empire PawParole fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Nov 16, 2019 |
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Nov 16, 2019 04:49
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You could also block the image using an adblocker, it's the same image for everyone.
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Nov 16, 2019 04:50
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Grenfell 2's got a nice ring to it
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Nov 16, 2019 04:58
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PawParole posted:guess I’ll get when when I can afford it. Measuring exactly how much any particular issue, tactic, TV interview, etc. swings an election is an inherently near-impossible business, but the conventional wisdom is that a good ground game with enthused supporters knocking on doors and putting up fliers and so on can cause a huge upset - see 2017. e; A lot of the time it comes down less to converting people to your cause and more firing up your natural base so they actually get out and cast ballots. This is why they like, carpool/bus people to polling stations. It's also why I think Broadband Communism is such a belter - Labour in this election lives or dies by getting young people out to cast their ballots, and that's a policy which looks perfectly primed to aid in that, without turning off anyone who wasn't already strongly opposed anyway. Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Nov 16, 2019 |
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Nov 16, 2019 05:02
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Ms Adequate posted:Measuring exactly how much any particular issue, tactic, TV interview, etc. swings an election is an inherently near-impossible business, but the conventional wisdom is that a good ground game with enthused supporters knocking on doors and putting up fliers and so on can cause a huge upset - see 2017. that’s pretty smart and I’ll have to ruminate on that for a while. I once read an article claiming that face to face campaigning swings more voters than tv ads do, and it seems to match up with what happened in 2017.
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Nov 16, 2019 05:12
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