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If Dans untimely removal fucks up the power balance of the game, that is entirely Dan’s fault for not respecting boundaries.
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Nov 17, 2019 06:48
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I mean they remove people for medical reasons that completely gently caress up alliances. Don't see why that would be a factor. Although, I can see why it would be difficult for production to remove somebody in this situation. Like if they remove somebody for touching someone now, will they do it next season? Will a castaway be able to just start throwing accusations around to get someone removed from the game?
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Nov 17, 2019 07:11
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SLICK GOKU BABY posted:I mean they remove people for medical reasons that completely gently caress up alliances. Don't see why that would be a factor. Although, I can see why it would be difficult for production to remove somebody in this situation. Like if they remove somebody for touching someone now, will they do it next season? Will a castaway be able to just start throwing accusations around to get someone removed from the game? I feel like that's a stupid thing to ask since one of the issues with these past two episodes was that people were playing up accusations to some degree and we can see the consequences of that now. And additionally, everything's on camera and there's production everywhere. There's no cause for that kind of fearmongering. "Since they remove people for getting injured, what's stopping someone from injuring a player to get them removed from the game?" A lot! A lot is stopping them!
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Nov 17, 2019 07:16
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Yea there is, but they are also sleeping in close quarters and I doubt there is production hovering over them. And like you said, we've already seen in this instance people playing up the accusations. What's to stop someone from doing it in the future?
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Nov 17, 2019 07:20
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SLICK GOKU BABY posted:Yea there is, but they are also sleeping in close quarters and I doubt there is production hovering over them. And like you said, we've already seen in this instance people playing up the accusations. What's to stop someone from doing it in the future? I'm pretty confident that yes, there are cameras on them when they sleep
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Nov 17, 2019 07:21
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There's literally footage they showed these past few episodes of Dan bearhugging various women as they sleep.
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Nov 17, 2019 07:33
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TheCenturion posted:Like it or not, the producers also have to thread a fine line of 'how much is she playing?' Maybe she's hamming it up for the camera. Jamal pointed out the idea of 'believe victims,' yet we had players who had just admitted that they exaggerated things for gameplay purposes. SLICK GOKU BABY posted:Like if they remove somebody for touching someone now, will they do it next season? Will a castaway be able to just start throwing accusations around to get someone removed from the game? This ain't it chief(s). Production should have ejected Dan on like Day 2 and just cut him from the show entirely. That they tried to wring a 'teachable moment' from this is nauseating.
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Nov 17, 2019 07:35
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Midnightghoul posted:This is making a ton of people look real bad, except Janet Yeah no poo poo. Jesus this episode was poo poo for people I was rooting for. By the end of the second part, I didn't care anymore. Spergatory posted:I don't like this cast anymore. This. I can't believe Elizabeth and Lauren were saying poo poo like, "It hasn't been creepy for me personally, so I don't care." SweetJahasus posted:Can we all blame Dean for this? If he had only given Kellee the heads up that the vote was coming her way, after she just saved his rear end, she could have bounced Dan and the show would have been about the victory over the shitbag instead of a dogpile on the people actually trying to be respectful. I'm blaming Dan, Missy, Elizabeth, Lauren, and Aaron. You know, the people who were objectively awful human beings here. Zesty fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Nov 17, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2019 09:25
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TheCenturion posted:On the other hand, if the victim doesn’t want the aggressor removed, isn’t going ahead and removing him paternalistic and devaluing? TheCenturion posted:Should they, though? From a gameplay perspective? What if removing Dan changes the power balance in the game enough that somebody winds up losing that wouldn't have otherwise? What if Kellee was correct in the idea that having Dan removed would cause other players to treat her differently? What if Kellee planned on using bad will generated by Dan's actions as a gameplay element? I wanted to single out this guy's posts as terrible. Holy poo poo. I think others pointed out the naivety in them. SLICK GOKU BABY posted:Like if they remove somebody for touching someone now, will they do it next season? Will a castaway be able to just start throwing accusations around to get someone removed from the game? This isn't great either.
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Nov 17, 2019 09:25
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I've come down on people treating others, especially women, with egregious standards and comments and I wanted to say how much I appreciated that the vast majority of posters here were thoughtful, empathetic, and did not tolerate excuses and hand-waving. Thank you. Zesty fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Nov 17, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2019 09:27
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I'm slightly less harsh on Aaron because he was mostly guilty of ignorance and mansplaining than anything (and his apology was the most sincere of the bunch). Still pretty bad, but not as bad as Missy and Elizabeth who should know just how bad it is for a woman's claims to be outright ignored or misconstrued. Heck, Liz is an Olympian, a very male-dominated area.
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Nov 17, 2019 09:33
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I was not okay with Aaron's apology. He started strong and ended with "This isn't who I am. Everyone in my life knows it." Elizabeth did it too. Yes, it loving is who you are. It was right there. It's why you are apologizing. Don't make excuses. Don't deflect. Do better. I don't want to rank quality of all of the apologies or anything. That line, in particular, is always loving crap though and I didn't want it to go unremarked. Zesty fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Nov 17, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2019 09:36
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Zesty posted:I was not okay with Aaron's apology. He started strong and ended with "This isn't who I am. Everyone in my life knows it." Elizabeth did it too. His apology seemed pretty sincere. What he said was obviously hosed up and ignorant but it being a year ago and him being removed from this 24/7 stressful game I can believe he's changed. I took "this isn't who I am" as him being disgusted with what he said then given what he's saying now. IMO production has been getting off super easy and that statement they gave was some major bs. They watched a guy sexually harassing multiple women for weeks before they acknowledged it at all. freeman fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Nov 17, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2019 10:24
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SLICK GOKU BABY posted:Like if they remove somebody for touching someone now, will they do it next season? Will a castaway be able to just start throwing accusations around to get someone removed from the game?  freeman posted:
This is the season of production interference. Can we talk about Jamal's sabotage now? 1. Boston Rob to Jamal: "As soon as you touched that note, you lost your vote...today's lesson is on sabotage". Sandra crazily says, "Read it loud and read it proud!" but the note said he lost his vote at the next tribal council. What is there to be proud about?  Then Rob erroneously states "On Survivor there's no free lunch. You have to earn everything" which was absurd and not even close to being true. "You lost your vote, there's nothing we can do about that. But I want to test see if you understand sabotage. Would you like to try to get someone else?" 2. All the other IOI visitors were given a choice: You can play a game but if you lose, you lose your vote. But there was nothing for Jamal to win from this challenge; he had already lost his vote, and his only 'choice' was to lose even more. 3. Boston Rob sabotages Jamal's game, forcing him to do things that the other castaways will see as suspicious and threatening. 4. Jamal is voted out. 5. All the other IOI visitiors were informed that Sandra and Rob were not playing, but 6. Boston Rob won at sabotaging Jamal's game and getting him voted out. 7. WTF was the lesson?! 'Don't trust Sandra and Rob' ? Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Nov 17, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2019 13:22
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I wonder if Survivor will permanently start planting disadvantages on the island in the same way they plant advantages. It may dissuade idol seekers if they know that half of the things hidden on their island would hurt them rather than help. Also lol that Jamal grabbed the paper first when Karishma called it first.
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Nov 17, 2019 13:34
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Honestly yeah “not trusting Sandra and Rob” seems like its been a consistent thing with them, since they often give intentionally bad deals. They probably wanted Jamal to be like Janet and just forego the nonsense with creating the fake advantage entirely. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Nov 17, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2019 13:38
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SLICK GOKU BABY posted:I mean they remove people for medical reasons that completely gently caress up alliances. Don't see why that would be a factor. Although, I can see why it would be difficult for production to remove somebody in this situation. Like if they remove somebody for touching someone now, will they do it next season? Will a castaway be able to just start throwing accusations around to get someone removed from the game? Ah I see the 'what about Men's rights??' poster has logged into the thread
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Nov 17, 2019 14:22
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Raxivace posted:Honestly yeah “not trusting Sandra and Rob” seems like its been a consistent thing with them, since they often give intentionally bad deals. Just going to Alone Time Island is always a disadvantage, risking another one... well the reward better be good! Yeah the pencil was a trap. Make a fake legacy advantage by just writing and crossing out a voted out player and writing your name under it and keep it folded, or just use the blank parchment as a fake something. Or just draw a dickbutt and hide it near camp. You'd be an instant legend!
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Nov 17, 2019 16:51
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The Bloop posted:Just going to Alone Time Island is always a disadvantage, risking another one... well the reward better be good! I like the fake map that someone here suggested. If nothing else people at home would have a good laugh at it. You know, assuming creepy Dan didn't suck all the potential fun out of the season.
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Nov 17, 2019 17:14
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Binary Logic posted:They're being filmed 24/7. You're reaching more than Dan. Seriously, this is just loving creepy. There's no loving point to it. It's not being comforting and it's not just casual contact in close quarters. It's literally just a creepy guy wanting to put his hands on a woman for his own reasons. Like if I felt that on the back of my leg, I would probably just immediately kick backwards.
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Nov 17, 2019 17:19
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I just don’t think it’s up to a bunch of men to tell a woman how to feel and what an appropriate action is, especially when the woman in question is making choices based, partially, on making a million dollars.
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Nov 17, 2019 19:04
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TheCenturion posted:I just don’t think it’s up to a bunch of men to tell a woman how to feel and what an appropriate action is, especially when the woman in question is making choices based, partially, on making a million dollars. She was crying about it. Edit: confused you with another poster who is far worse blue squares fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Nov 17, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2019 20:04
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AWarmBody posted:I wonder if Survivor will permanently start planting disadvantages on the island in the same way they plant advantages. It may dissuade idol seekers if they know that half of the things hidden on their island would hurt them rather than help. why would they want to dissuade idol seekers
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Nov 17, 2019 20:59
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Yeah there are definitely competing interests here, this is not as cut and dry as a lot of people are saying. People do get extremely emotional on Survivor due to completely legitimate stresses, it's not like a confessional with a producer egging you on to create dramatic TV is the same as you going voluntarily to HR to file a complaint. Some level of asking the players their own opinions about things like this seems meaningful, because affect varies widely. I certainly don't know the details of the rules they were playing under, but I suspect the official rules about how these things are handled may be updated after this season. I think there SHOULD be rules under which creepers get automatically ejected, as I'm sure there are if someone attacks another castaway with a machete etc, but it definitely needs to include victim statements rather than only third party judgement with arguable poo poo, because wildly different levels of physicality are acceptable to different people. It's a very tough issue. I'd say if someone is told by a player to back off, or a player tells production, the offender should get a warning and then another infraction leads to going home with zero prize money. Obviously straight up grabbing someone's junk or similar should skip step one.
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Nov 17, 2019 21:12
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AWarmBody posted:I wonder if Survivor will permanently start planting disadvantages on the island in the same way they plant advantages. It may dissuade idol seekers if they know that half of the things hidden on their island would hurt them rather than help. I really, really like this idea. Therefore, it will never happen.
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Nov 17, 2019 21:31
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Cursed idol: you have an immunity idol but you MUST wear it around until tribal council
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Nov 17, 2019 22:03
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Congratulations on finding this cursed parchment! Your tribe will have one bogus puzzle piece to deal with in the next challenge.
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Nov 17, 2019 23:21
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Jamal's thing was stupid and lovely but he also played it really badly. Like he, should have just not done anything or given to a friend with a wink or given it to someone in private or I don't know. Anything besides write a long message, gather all the players, tell them he wrote it, and then give it to his most obvious rival in a blatant attempt to target him. He was put in a bad position but I think that was Jamal's arrogance rearing its head again that he thought he would be able to pull it out. In the end it was mean and dumb but it does sort of keep to Sandra's continued lesson of "don't be a dumb rear end."
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Nov 17, 2019 23:32
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TheCenturion posted:I just don’t think it’s up to a bunch of men to tell a woman how to feel and what an appropriate action is, especially when the woman in question is making choices based, partially, on making a million dollars. I mean, that's also part of the issue, as Kass tweeted and was discussed in a post a page or two back. There need to be more women in the crew who can see these things in a different light potentially to the men, or at least make women playing more comfortable.
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Nov 17, 2019 23:41
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There was a preview for the next episode during football just now and outside of the very start of the commercial where they show a zoomed out view of everyone lined up at the challenge, Dan was the only one who wasn't featured in some way in it.
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Nov 18, 2019 00:26
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You know what's weird? As it stands, we have an 11 man jury with 3 finalists. 1 more than ever before. Let's say Dan gets voted out or removed. It loving works if Dan is removed from the Jury. I'm wondering if production planned ahead at all. Worst case, they just have a big jury. Probably a little  of me because a 9 man jury would be fine.
Zesty fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Nov 18, 2019 |
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Nov 18, 2019 02:42
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EoE has a 13 man jury. And yes, that season will always be a statistical asterisk. But it’s possible they’re bringing back the jury remover.
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Nov 18, 2019 03:21
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Hope not.
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Nov 18, 2019 03:26
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Well with a double elimination this week, it means a 5-person finale for the first time in ages. So it certainly sounds like some kind of screwy thing going on.
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Nov 18, 2019 03:27
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It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that production would want Dan out so much that they'd expand the Jury to prepare for it, but would still leave him in the game and let the narrative and image of the season all go to hell. Besides that being just really sleazy and weird I imagine if it happened and we found out he was booted from Ponderosa and the Jury we'd all just be angry that they didn't act "now". I'm too tired to process the math of the jury and weeks and stuff but like, i think they're leaning towards larger juries now that they have the open Tribal Council format so having more voices and people to raise issues is better tv. In general. Maybe not if those issues are sexual harassment and people using sexual harassment to target people standing up against it. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Nov 18, 2019 |
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Nov 18, 2019 03:35
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lol if you don't think rob and sandra are voting at the end
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Nov 18, 2019 03:44
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They don't get to vote but they do get to run the Final Tribal and Sandra calls everyone a dumbass who doesn't like her favorite.
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Nov 18, 2019 03:46
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Didn't that Oath bullshit say they don't get to vote? I'm confident they're not getting too deep in this. They aren't players, they're production.
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Nov 18, 2019 03:52
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The two most likely explanations for the 11-person jury over 10-person jury are (1) Rob and Sandra are jurors and 13 is a better jury number than 12 (possibility of a 4-4-4 tie), (2) juror removal is the last Island of Idols advantage. The conspiracy theories that Production Wanted This All Along seems crazy to me. I'm sure I'm reading way too much into things, but I think you can clearly see production change its mind in real time about whether the incident was even going to be in the episode. The Big Producer Meeting (and Official Warning) all happened *before* the first Tribal. Despite those things being very much on everyone's mind they're never acknowledged by the players or Jeff in the first Tribal. It seems clear to me production was trying to bury the issue and it was never meant to be apart of the show and everyone was trying to pretend it didn't happen. It would have been very easy to edit around the issue in the first episode by just pretending the Dan votes were because Dan was just "annoying" or whatever. Kellee's Ponderosa video feels like it's from this alternate universe, where she was told to just act like none of that stuff ever happened because it was never making the cut in the episode. I think production then realized while filming the second episode that they couldn't (or maybe shouldn't) avoid it anymore because it was going to be essential for understanding why Janet was doing anything she was doing. Remember, Jeff is functioning as a producer at Tribal and he is clearly producing the scene very differently in the Second Tribal. You can also see how reluctant Janet is to talk explicitly about anything until Jeff basically gives her the okay. I think this partly explains Dan's confusion at that Tribal, because until his point he's gotten away with it and it's not going to be part of the show (especially if, prior to this point, the players were explicitly told not to talk about it). I guess my point is, while production is guilty of a ton of stuff, it seems clear just from the way Jeff is acting over the two episodes that production never planned for this to be part of the show until they couldn't avoid the issue anymore. ApplesandOranges posted:Well with a double elimination this week, it means a 5-person finale for the first time in ages. So it certainly sounds like some kind of screwy thing going on. 20-person seasons need 2 double eliminations to start with a Final 5 at the finale, this is only the first.
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Nov 18, 2019 03:59
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Yeah, things went off the rails AFTER Kellee got voted out and when Janet told Dan and Missy/Elizabeth scapegoated her. Until then production was probably dealing with it like a relatively minor issue they could police behind the scenes and hopefully the vote would resolve it one way or another. Dan was just a "creepy toucher" and not a "sexual harasser". But then it carried over and became a bigger thing so not only did they have to make it part of the show narrative and Jeff had to raise it in Tribal but they made the decision to make it a double episode so that it made some sense and we could see what happened instead of just buying into a narrative.
STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Nov 18, 2019 |
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Nov 18, 2019 04:10
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