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TTBF posted:I don't know about Dave, but I know Bryan had two lines run to his house just for WOL. He also overpayed for it tremendously for years. One of the best bits last year As much as I want to laugh at Bryan, gently caress cable/phone companies and the bullshit they pull. Especially the part where he mentioned what the bill said didn't actually represent what he had. I've thought of this before, but they have to be making a killing on older people due to their tactics. Although picturing Dave arguing semantics with a cable/phone company has me laughing just imagining the rep getting so frustrated.
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Nov 17, 2019 10:04
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| # ? May 25, 2024 19:39 |
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If you've never heard the story of The Rock's grandmother being brought up on federal extortion charges, or even if you just know the broad strokes, then you need to listen to this episode ASAP. https://twitter.com/BTSheetsPod/status/1196293898060083202
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Nov 18, 2019 06:09
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TTBF posted:I don't know about Dave, but I know Bryan had two lines run to his house just for WOL. He also overpayed for it tremendously for years. One of the best bits last year "Unlimited Local Calling" is such a loving scam.  Telecom corporations are a blight on this planet.
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Nov 18, 2019 11:43
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Which WOR episode has the weights calling to Dave?
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Nov 18, 2019 19:49
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October 23/24 I can't remember what they labelled it e: 24th
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Nov 18, 2019 20:54
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Free Pacific Rim with Chris Jericho https://www.f4wonline.com/pacific-rim-pro-wrestling-podcast/free-show-pacific-rim-chris-jericho-297611
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Nov 18, 2019 21:02
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The weights calling to Dave story was especially good since everyone I've told it to completely understands and has experienced it, as have I.
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Nov 18, 2019 21:18
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dave is probably gonna ruffle some feathers on the latest WOR for saying he doesn't want want women wrestlers to be out there because they're women, they should be out there because they're good wrestlers. i generally agree with him, most WWE women are embarrassingly bad and AEW has like maybe three good workers on their roster if anything I think it just points to how terribly women are trained, at least in the US. people like Moolah set women back thirty or forty years and we're still trying to repair the damage to this day. in japan they're trained like the men and what a coincidence, they're as good (or better) than the men
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Nov 18, 2019 23:21
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On the other hand I think there's something to be said for the idea that the first wave of a "revolution" isn't gonna be it at its finest form but the more mediocre women getting opportunities and time opens the door for more women becoming wrestlers and better ones developing. Of course WWE is definitely behind the pace on this and I'd suggest that the "The R/Evolution" is basically a decade after the "American Joshi" movement that actually sparked the "second wave" we see outside WWE these days. But the argument of "they shouldn't be there because they're women" seems to threaten to lower their standing and stunt development. Like... I love tag teams. I want a live, great, fluid tag division. But if the tag division sucks I still want it there with the hopes it gets better. edit: AEW has a MUCH better division developing and I don't think its fair to say "they have like 3 good workers" unless we're only basing it on the first few weeks of the division. I also think NXT has some good workers and in general WWE has enough good workers to make for a good Women's Division, just not enough to make 3 Women's Divisions. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Nov 18, 2019 |
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Nov 18, 2019 23:37
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Low Desert Punk posted:dave is probably gonna ruffle some feathers on the latest WOR for saying he doesn't want want women wrestlers to be out there because they're women, they should be out there because they're good wrestlers. I stopped listening to the episode at that point because I thought he was straying dangerously close to dipshit bootstraps territory and upon finishing it I think I was right. It's all well and good to criticize women for not being trained well enough but it's a pretty lazy criticism unless you're presenting a solution to that problem. I fail to see how "make the women less visible" is that solution. No one is saying they should book women on TV simply for diversity purposes. Putting women wrestlers on TV is an action that has consequences and those consequences help solve the very problem he is complaining about. They're not just going to magically get better, Dave, poo poo has to change. Plus, if the women AEW has aren't good enough to be on TV then their billionaire owner should hire some who are. Separately: WWE sucks rear end because they often push the women Vince wants to gently caress in favor of those with real talent, I am not defending that.
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Nov 18, 2019 23:46
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dave betrayed that he's taking too much input from the dumbasses that think riho doesn't work and orange cassidy should literally die, there
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Nov 18, 2019 23:48
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Big Huski Boi posted:Plus, if the women AEW has aren't good enough to be on TV then their billionaire owner should hire some who are. There like literally aren't any unless you poach girls from Stardom or some of the other joshi promotions. There are a lot of interesting characters in American women's wrestling but I don't know that I would call many of them good workers. Having Tessa Blanchard would solve a bunch of their problems. Putting people like Britt Baker on television, stumbling around and loving up every spot does way, way more damage to women's wrestling than it helps
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Nov 18, 2019 23:54
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Low Desert Punk posted:Putting people like Britt Baker on television, stumbling around and loving up every spot does way, way more damage to women's wrestling than it helps
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Nov 18, 2019 23:57
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Low Desert Punk posted:There like literally aren't any unless you poach girls from Stardom or some of the other joshi promotions. There are a lot of interesting characters in American women's wrestling but I don't know that I would call many of them good workers. Having Tessa Blanchard would solve a bunch of their problems. For one, no, I don't think there are kids watching the show thinking "ugh she's a terrible worker" instead being excited to see themselves represented. And two - work harder to build a women's roster! But there is no universe in which just not putting women on TV is an acceptable choice here. And I just cannot get over how world-class idiotic it is to complain about the quality of women's wrestling and then suggest they shouldn't be on TV in the same breath. The latter causes the former!
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Nov 18, 2019 23:59
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jesus WEP posted:This is a hysterically stupid post and you should feel bad about making it i respect you... possum man.
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Nov 19, 2019 00:09
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Low Desert Punk posted:There like literally aren't any unless you poach girls from Stardom or some of the other joshi promotions. There are a lot of interesting characters in American women's wrestling but I don't know that I would call many of them good workers. I vehemently disagree with this post and choose to withdraw from this vein of the conversation for fear of saying things I will regret later. The question still remains that even if its hypothetically true that there's virtually no good women's wrestlers outside of Japan, how does de-emphasizing women's wrestling help solve this?
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Nov 19, 2019 00:13
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Low Desert Punk posted:Putting people like Britt Baker on television, stumbling around and loving up every spot does way, way more damage to women's wrestling than it helps How about there’s a women’s division and they go on TV? How about just that, and no gatekeeping? Yeah, bad performance is bad performance, but that’s of the individual not the group.
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Nov 19, 2019 00:28
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Yeah, the only way wrestlers get better is by wrestling. Wrestlers should wrestle! Only letting the ones who are already good at wrestling wrestle is the same kind of silliness that lead to things like the NXT Performance Centre "producing" a bunch of wrestlers with 10+ year indy careers while everybody else kept on doing drills and never getting any better. Edit: Imagine if Gatoh Move had looked at LuluPencil and said,"Well you're not very good so we're not going to do anything with you in case people think badly about wrestling."
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Nov 19, 2019 00:31
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Disagree
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Nov 19, 2019 00:35
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I dunno what they do on house shows but I assume it's a bunch of lovely 8 minute 6 woman tags. Nobody is gonna grow as a wrestler doing that.
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Nov 19, 2019 01:10
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Low Desert Punk posted:There are a lot of interesting characters in American women's wrestling but I don't know that I would call many of them good workers. Interesting characters can make up for a lot. Maki Itoh's appeal is almost entirely character-based and she rules.
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Nov 19, 2019 01:11
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Low Desert Punk posted:dave is probably gonna ruffle some feathers on the latest WOR for saying he doesn't want want women wrestlers to be out there because they're women, they should be out there because they're good wrestlers. Im going to headline this that Dave thinks women should be divas again. As for "most women in WWE" being bad... yeah nah. On raw there are 11 active women, of which 6 or 7 are good. SD is worse in its 5 out of 12 but still good ratio. NXT is 8 of 15. Not including NXT UK as i dont know them well enough but the ones i do know are great. Talent isnt the issue and its vertainly not bad women with lack of merit.
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Nov 19, 2019 01:18
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CombineThresher posted:Interesting characters can make up for a lot. Maki Itoh's appeal is almost entirely character-based and she rules. Yes https://mobile.twitter.com/tde_wres...nal-princess%2F
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Nov 19, 2019 01:20
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Lid posted:Im going to headline this that Dave thinks women should be divas again. I don’t think Dave is stuck on Divas being the approach. He just wants good wrestling and thinks that if the current women aren’t good they shouldn’t be on the show. And he’s not wrong. There’s a difference between needing to improve your fundamentals and needing to get TV experience. Some of the women this forum also constantly complains about don’t just need TV experience. Britt and several others have lots of potential, but there are fundamental skills that they lack, and the place to grow these skills isn’t the TV show. There isn’t enough room on the card for that. The solution is to bring in women who already have the fundamentals, which is what AEW appears to be doing with women like Shida, Shanna, Hayter, etc. Get them camera time, let them get better at the style AEW is going for. It’s a better use of the limited time that’s available on TV and will also result in better matches. Like if Britt wants to be a full time wrestler she should be on excursion or something getting a lot of dates and experience, which one night of TV a week is not going to help with.
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Nov 19, 2019 01:45
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I think the area where WWE was most successful in blocking AEW was in getting top female talent. The AEW womens division needs: Great journeyman workers to help your green up and comers learn the art. Good green wrestlers. Ring time for the newbies. An established star or two to help get new talent over. Problems: Basically the joshi are great vets but work a different style to "american" women so it takes ring time to mesh together. There also seems to be a divide between the booking of the joshi and the rest of the womens division, as Kenny is booking one way and Brandy another. AEW aren't running house shows for people to get an extra 50 matches a year. Send them on excursion somewhere, an issue if you're running weekly TV and its tough to make the women do extra dates when the promotion is built on a friendlier schedule. There aren't many female wrestling draws outside of WWE for an American audience. Kong is there but is physically limited. So its gonna struggle in comparison to the other divisions because it doesn't have the tools those divisions have.
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Nov 19, 2019 01:58
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Having that strong character and stories to lean in with also allowed her to get better by wrestling more: now she’s pretty good by herself: her recent title win was a very fun match. She’s not world class but very few people are, but good enough that combined with character work she’s one of the best around. That’s the thing: if you can be charismatic and be a compelling character that can cover up flaws if you’re booked properly. If Britt didn’t have the charisma of a piece of cheese then I think she’d be doing fine: but she doesn’t which really exposes how bad she is in ring. Low Desert Punk posted:in japan they're trained like the men and what a coincidence, they're as good (or better) than the men This isn’t really how it works in Japan. The style of training that most Joshi companies use is derived from how the AJW dojo trained talent which developed techniques separately from the two big male dojos of the time with ideas coming from the US through Mildred Burke (who’s early Japanese tours after being screwed out of her World Women’s Title in the US sparked Joshi in Japan) or through their strong links with Mexico in addition to things they came up with themselves - the “pro test” system (where wrestlers wanting to debut have to go through a formal test to prove that they are fit enough, good enough at bumping and other drills and also good enough at shoot grappling to be allowed to debut, the tests being shoots - indeed some companies have started doing these in public at shows and they are incredibly interesting) I don’t think has an equivalent in male puro for example. To say they “trained like men” I think is factually wrong: Joshi training was ran by women, following curriculums mostly designed by women and I think that is actually one of the most important things about it that outright dismissing that important history is just wrong.
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Nov 19, 2019 02:04
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU4OYP1i82k Here is the documentary that used to go around that gives a lot of context to this, if not the history of it. Its really worth a watch even if it is a little dated now. Edit: Ignore the timestamp
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Nov 19, 2019 02:11
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There are too many awful or painfully mediocre wrestlers, male and female, who take up space for better wrestlers. Britt and Private Party will find it hard to develop working once a week. But I remember Melina and Michelle McCool of all people getting in trouble for having too good a match on a PPV. The structure in place at the moment isn't doing a good job of helping women's wrestling thrive, but it's slowly improving.
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Nov 19, 2019 02:12
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AEW doesn't run enough shows and I have no idea what they should do but WWE has a roster big enough to give women an hour on the network every week which would help a lot.
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Nov 19, 2019 02:52
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Ring time is the fundamental issue: AEW’s schedule doesn’t give people the time to improve while WWE’s training regimen is a great way of developing wrestlers who either aren’t very good or who seem to break down immediately after making it to the top because they overtrain people. Look at how bad a lot of the developmental wrestlers are in WWE with them having access to theoretically the best equipment, the best resources and the best talents and then look at what someone like a Chigusa Nagayo is able to produce with a few high school girls, some basic training equipment and a ring. The issue is all training: and if I was AEW I’m looking at my green wrestlers and am instantly trying to find spots for them in Japan or Mexico to get ring time and some high quality training. Did Nyla Rose a world of good to spend a few summers in Japan.
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Nov 19, 2019 03:02
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Lol at the idea that Dave Meltzer, 80s and 90s Joshi superfan, only likes divas wrestling
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Nov 19, 2019 03:09
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I find the AEW and WWE comparison pretty disingenuous, to be honest. AEW is in its second month of 2 hours of TV and we've clearly seen a lot of movement in their roster. They're clearly working to try and find the balance of time and right roster and pretty much everyone agrees they've made mistakes with the women's division and some of the early players like Britt Baker aren't clicking. They've also had successes as Riho has won a lot of fans over starting from scratch, all their big title matches have been well received, and there's buzz for many of the women featured by Dark. So it feels like a work in progress that there's reason to think will go in the right direction. WWE on the other hand has an abundance of time and talent and decades of establishment. They don't feature good women's wrestling because they don't have a will to. They divide the rosters up too much, they give the matches too little time, they stick to the same matchups too much, and they ultimately don't really care because its all about brand and marketing and moments. So thinking the solution to this for either company is less women's wrestling is just...
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Nov 19, 2019 03:12
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Lid posted:Im going to headline this that Dave thinks women should be divas again. This couldn't be more off base.
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Nov 19, 2019 03:15
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imagine thinking Dave Meltzer wants women's wrestling to be Diva's Era WWE the absolute gaps of knowledge required is mindblowing
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Nov 19, 2019 03:18
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I mean really AEW should be sending their less seasoned wrestlers to work more Indy shows. It gives them more experience and it gives the Indy promotions something to sell tickets.
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Nov 19, 2019 03:20
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Its a weird idea because AEW wrestlers DO work indies and international shows and their roster is still in flux. Like, we don't even know if wrestlers like Mercedes Martinez, Shanna, and Kris Statlander are a regular part of it or not.
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Nov 19, 2019 03:22
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Shanna’s definitely on the roster.
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Nov 19, 2019 03:29
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STAC Goat posted:Its a weird idea because AEW wrestlers DO work indies and international shows and their roster is still in flux. Like, we don't even know if wrestlers like Mercedes Martinez, Shanna, and Kris Statlander are a regular part of it or not. Non-AEW matches since Double or Nothing Britt Baker: 2 between Double or Nothing and All Out, one match prior to Dynamite's debut, zero since Nyla Rose: 1 between DoN/AO, 1 prior to Dynamite, zero since Private Party: 2 between AO/DoN, 1 since Dynamite debuted Like a lot of things I'm willing to give them some leeway as they're figuring stuff out and maybe some combination of house shows/co-promoted shows/indie booking windows are being developed right now. They're also in a tough situation in that their only option for grooming talent right now is "sign to exclusive deal so WWE doesn't scoop them up and put them in a warehouse". It's not like they can bring in Private Party or Jungle Boy or Marko Stunt for a couple of spotlight matches and then send them out to polish themselves up, there's no way they'd ever get them back in the current environment.
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Nov 19, 2019 03:33
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What’s wild about the roster thing is Orange Cassidy is out there still working his full indie schedule.
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Nov 19, 2019 03:36
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Yeah, I'm not disagreeing that AEW has some places to grow and green talents. I just don't think the AEW vs WWE comparison really makes sense in this department. AEW is extremely young and still developing as a promotion and roster, so its working through stuff differently than WWE does. AEW choose to give Britt Baker a push and it hasn't worked, but that's different from WWE choosing to give Lacey Evans a push when they have a wealth of available talent, many places to season Evans, and pushed her much longer than the Baker experiment in play. So like, yeah, absolutely we can and should be evaluating AEW's women's division and other issues. But just in different context than WWE's.
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Nov 19, 2019 03:37
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