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Zarin posted:I'm torn on whether or not this would make them more or less likely to lean towards "approve". I imagine it probably varied from case worker to case worker. It's been a few years since I volunteered there, but the case workers didn't have a ton of leeway. There was an incredibly thick binder of rules that needed to be applied to different income or asset situations, and it all tallied up into a final score. I think there were some situations where some judgment needed to be applied, but it was mostly identifying and applying specific rules. That's what I was told, anyway. I did negotiations with utility company representatives, so when applications got to me they had already gone through the whole process. It was always "fun" begging a rep from a natural gas company to please not shut off some elderly person's heat because there was only enough funding to pay their current bill and not their owed amount and we couldn't manage to get a medical exemption. This world is really awful.
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Nov 19, 2019 06:36
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https://twitter.com/janeosanders/status/1196231122985730049?s=20
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Nov 19, 2019 06:47
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Paradoxish posted:It's been a few years since I volunteered there, but the case workers didn't have a ton of leeway. There was an incredibly thick binder of rules that needed to be applied to different income or asset situations, and it all tallied up into a final score. I think there were some situations where some judgment needed to be applied, but it was mostly identifying and applying specific rules. I feel like I could spend a week writing VBA code and save that group a LOT of labor hours. The fact that I can even write that sentence probably makes me a bad person. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Paradoxish posted:That's what I was told, anyway. I did negotiations with utility company representatives, so when applications got to me they had already gone through the whole process. It was always "fun" begging a rep from a natural gas company to please not shut off some elderly person's heat because there was only enough funding to pay their current bill and not their owed amount and we couldn't manage to get a medical exemption. This world is really awful. I . . . didn't think ANYONE was allowed to shut heat off in the winter. While that disappoints me, I can't say that I'm overly surprised either. You're right about that, though - this world IS awful. What gets me is that it doesn't NEED to be, but some people are actively pushing for it to be so anyway for . . . reasons. I wish I knew how to fix that.
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Nov 19, 2019 07:21
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How the hell is Biden still doing so well? He's got the lead in every poll right? I just don't see it evaporating. Jesus Christ it's an old person death cult.
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Nov 19, 2019 07:25
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Holf the loving phone. Joe bidem is 76.. So if he became president hed be up for re election at 80?? Is there any idea of who his running mate will be?
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Nov 19, 2019 07:26
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Holf the loving phone. Joe bidem is 76.. The reanimated corpse of Jesse Helms. Or maybe Cornpop.
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Nov 19, 2019 07:36
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Zarin posted:Right? I hate this planet so much. Biden's going to be ahead until some other candidate can make a more convincing case that they stand the best chance of beating Trump. That's the most important factor for a vast majority of the primary electorate. Hell it's probably the only factor for a majority. This is because: Kill Bristol posted:the average voter doesn’t really have much of an ideology. Of course Biden hasn't really been making much of a case at all, but he doesn't really need to. Biden both seems more electable intuitively to most people and tends to poll substantially better than everyone else except Bernie in the states that actually matter for electoral college votes. I dunno why this seems crazy to people here. If you think Trump's a fascist who's destroying the country it's perfectly rational to want to vote for the person who has the best chance of beating him. It's probably true that a return to normalcy is impossible and more years of no-real-change centrist government will only enable worse versions of Trump in the future, but that's 1) kind of speculative compared to the immediate harms Trump is inflicting upon the country and 2) a far more long-term and in-depth analysis than you can expect most voters to engage in, given the pressing horror of this idiot who's now in charge. I think Bernie probably actually has a better chance than Biden, but that's based on my gut feeling and I dunno how to convince someone who is scared off (or, more likely, who thinks others are scared off) by the socialist label. Backing Biden is a perfectly rational and understandable choice for most low-medium information voters. Like, black people in South Carolina - people who, I'd wager, have a whole lot more to lose under four more years of Trump than most posters here do - would not be supporting a guy who was BFFs with segregationists, opposed to busing, etc, if they weren't making this calculation.
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Nov 19, 2019 07:38
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Is there any idea of who his running mate will be? At this point, Kamala or Pete
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Nov 19, 2019 07:38
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Gnumonic posted:Biden's going to be ahead until some other candidate can make a more convincing case that they stand the best chance of beating Trump. That's the most important factor for a vast majority of the primary electorate. Hell it's probably the only factor for a majority. Ugh, I really hope my parents don't figure out that in this state, they can vote in whatever primary they want.
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Nov 19, 2019 07:44
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overmind2000 posted:At this point, Kamala or Pete More likely Kamala than Pete. In today's Democratic party, I don't think any of the white male candidates would pick another white man as their running mate.
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Nov 19, 2019 07:44
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Gnumonic posted:Biden's going to be ahead until some other candidate can make a more convincing case that they stand the best chance of beating Trump. That's the most important factor for a vast majority of the primary electorate. Hell it's probably the only factor for a majority. This is because: It’s strange to the people who populate places like this thread because the people posting ITT have either a clearly defined ideology and/or an ideological identity (not necessarily the same thing). To us politics nerds it seems very alien. So you end up with weird contrived explanations for why people support Biden when the truth is pretty simple and is basically what you said: he’s familiar and seems like he could beat trump, and if they care enough to vote in a dem primary they probably hate the motherfucker. Are they right? Not really, there’s no clear consensus on what “electability” even is or how much it matters , among people who spend their entire careers studying this poo poo, because we’re working with an extremely low N of presidential elections in any kind of analysis. So you might as well just vote your values and policy preferences in the primary and worry about the general when it comes. But cable news has convinced everyone that they’re an armchair campaign strategist, so people try and do this stupid (but for the information they have, rational) meta-gaming with their primary vote.
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Nov 19, 2019 07:52
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“We must elect him because he’s the most electable” was an idiotic farce every other time it’s been deployed to defend whatever jackass the dems throw up, but using that line for the man whose brain is melting down harder than Trump’s is a special breed of horseshit.
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Nov 19, 2019 07:54
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Telephones posted:How the hell is Biden still doing so well? He's got the lead in every poll right? I just don't see it evaporating. Jesus Christ it's an old person death cult. It has been evaporating in a lot of the early states where people are actually starting to pay attention, he's basically in a tie in iowa and his campaign has been putting out "now don't get too surprised if we don't win iowa" messages for a while. It's basically the case that basically nobody likes biden but everyone is convinced that everybody else likes biden, WHEN he doesn't take Iowa expect most of that support to evaporate.
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Nov 19, 2019 07:55
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From my experience talking to people in my own life “they all have basically the same chance, so vote for who you actually like” is a more effective argument with normies than you think, and is also mostly true.
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Nov 19, 2019 07:58
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Polls are bullshit but I do wonder when 'Biden's brain is falling apart like wet cake' is going to become common knowledge. The media are obviously covering for him as best they can but surely the more people see him the more people have to realise he's so senile he makes Trump look with it. Right? ...right?
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Nov 19, 2019 07:58
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Barry Foster posted:Polls are bullshit but I do wonder when 'Biden's brain is falling apart like wet cake' is going to become common knowledge. The media are obviously covering for him as best they can but surely the more people see him the more people have to realise he's so senile he makes Trump look with it. Right? That won't happen until the debates pare down to five or less people. The cracks are gonna start showing big time if he has to give an answer that goes on for longer than one minute and thirty seconds.
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Nov 19, 2019 08:04
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overmind2000 posted:That won't happen until the debates pare down to five or less people. The cracks are gonna start showing big time if he has to give an answer that goes on for longer than one minute and thirty seconds. I legit don't think the debates matter for Biden supporters, and not because they see it and don't care that he's obviously dying or anything. I'm pretty sure they just...don't watch the debates (or pay attention to anything else, for that matter.)
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Nov 19, 2019 08:07
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If there was ever a time to throw "electability" vs an incumbent in the garbage, its this cycle. Trump lost to Clinton by 5 million votes. She was an uniquely horrible candidate with tons of baggage and most voters assumed she would cruise to victory. That apathy is gone. Literally every single Dem candidate in the ring would beat Trump by a minimum of 5 points without breaking a sweat. This is the time to pick a bold candidate and tell the compromise centrists to get hosed
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Nov 19, 2019 08:18
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King of Solomon posted:I legit don't think the debates matter for Biden supporters, and not because they see it and don't care that he's obviously dying or anything. I'm pretty sure they just...don't watch the debates (or pay attention to anything else, for that matter.) It would be more useful in turning away people that might be on the fence about him being electable versus any other candidate they might care about.
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Nov 19, 2019 08:19
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A record youth turnout is the only thing that can save us from Biden.
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Nov 19, 2019 08:26
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Luckyellow posted:If you're fine with her if she wins the nomination, then you'll be fine with any of the other candidates. That’s some weird purity test. I’d rather her or sanders at this point over anyone else. I say that as someone who thought (and still do) think that the best person debate wise against trump would have been Harris. I can’t stand Biden, but if he’s the nom, I will vote for him. Are there really people in this thread so in love with Bernie (and self centered) that if he doesn’t get nominated, they won’t vote? Because another four years of that rapist rear end in a top hat is far, far worse than Biden.
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Nov 19, 2019 08:45
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Judakel posted:A Warren presidency is a caretaker presidency and we are well past that point. If we’re talking about globally, we’re already so hosed climate change wise that doesn’t matter.
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Nov 19, 2019 08:48
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Nov 19, 2019 09:11
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oxsnard posted:She was an uniquely horrible candidate with tons of baggage Nice dogwhistle misogyny
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Nov 19, 2019 10:15
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LionArcher posted:Are there really people in this thread so in love with Bernie (and self centered) that if he doesn’t get nominated, they won’t vote? Because another four years of that rapist rear end in a top hat is far, far worse than Biden. How long is this weird projection going to go on? No one is in love with Bernie like a cult. If tomorrow Bernie came out and said he was against M4A, for charter schools, Pro business, Pro coup and anti union, his supporters would drop him like a rock. It's pure projection from slay kween Pete dancing idiots that would follow their candidate regardless of policy because they don't really care. So yes, there are people that won't vote for anyone but Bernie in the general election, because they're tired of being taken advantage of and the only thing they cared about was the POLICY which is now gone and off the table. Why bother when it will all be the same as it ever is? No one is owed a vote, they have to earn it. I wouldn't vote for Donald Trump and I won't vote for Biden for example, just because his name is followed by a (D). It's up to the democratic party to get those votes, the ball is entirely in their court but they don't seem to want them.
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Nov 19, 2019 10:19
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LionArcher posted:That’s some weird purity test. I’d rather her or sanders at this point over anyone else. I say that as someone who thought (and still do) think that the best person debate wise against trump would have been Harris. I can’t stand Biden, but if he’s the nom, I will vote for him. Are there really people in this thread so in love with Bernie (and self centered) that if he doesn’t get nominated, they won’t vote? Because another four years of that rapist rear end in a top hat is far, far worse than Biden. show your work on how biden will beat trump for bonus credit, demonstrate how biden will prevent the GOP from making gains in congress
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Nov 19, 2019 10:31
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Kill Bristol posted:Also hammers home how the average voter doesn’t really have much of an ideology. You keep saying this, but it's just not true. Everyone is ideological, and those most impacted by ideology are those who think they don't have any. The fact that many 2016 Sanders supporters have been polled as not wanting higher taxes supports this fact, because the dominant ideology in the US for generations has said "taxes bad." They accept that and don't really question it, because it's been internalized.
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Nov 19, 2019 12:49
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redneck nazgul posted:show your work on how biden will beat trump While I don't disagree with you that Biden's got a lower chance of beating Trump than almost anyone because of his weaknesses, and also that a Biden nomination would guarantee the Republicans hold the Senate and may even retake the House, this isn't really a counter-argument against someone who would prefer literally anyone other than Trump be president and would vote for whoever wins the primary no matter what. A better argument would be "Yes, but voting for Biden is actually immoral because he's also a piece of poo poo Literal Boomer who will continue driving the country into a ditch, just mildly slower than Trump would" 
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Nov 19, 2019 13:04
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Biden won't close those loving camps
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Nov 19, 2019 13:24
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Mukaikubo posted:voting for Biden is actually immoral because he's also a piece of poo poo Literal Boomer isn't he technically a Silent, which are arguably worse in many cases
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Nov 19, 2019 13:36
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Barry Foster posted:Biden won't close those loving camps Biden would constantly be worried about what Republicans say about him he wouldn't act. Every time he would try to do something, the Republicans would call him "weak on x". In this case, trying to close the camps would get him called "weak on immigration" and hed cave like a cheap coal mine and leave them open. He also wouldnt complain when mcconnel held up his judges. He also wouldnt speak up when they hold open another supreme court seat. Hell, I doubt anyone but Bernie and maybe warren would speak up about that.
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Nov 19, 2019 13:54
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Biden would absolutely be worried about the federal deficit and push for an massive cuts in Medicare and Social Security in order to prevent a government shutdown.
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Nov 19, 2019 13:56
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overmind2000 posted:Morning Consult has updated as well All these polls seem to have the same worrying trend that the 2016 ones did: Biden gets public attention with other candidates, and his support plummets. Then over time it creeps back up. Just like with Trump. Bidens going to win and we're all going to die.
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Nov 19, 2019 14:01
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I diatinctly remember Biden dunking on Paul Ryan in the VP debate. That was 8 years ago. Putting that Biden into a debate with Trump would be amazing television. I don't think lots of voters are that tuned into candidates yet, so mashing the button on polls for Biden is an exercise in name recognition among a very large field.
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Nov 19, 2019 14:07
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oxsnard posted:I diatinctly remember Biden dunking on Paul Ryan in the VP debate. That was 8 years ago. Putting that Biden into a debate with Trump would be amazing television. I don't think lots of voters are that tuned into candidates yet, so mashing the button on polls for Biden is an exercise in name recognition among a very large field. 8 years ago. If you put the current Biden in, you'll just be watching a obviously declining dementia riddled senile old white man debating a obviously declining dementia riddled senile old white man.
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Nov 19, 2019 14:24
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It's important to remember that Biden thinks the key to beating Trump is challenging his masculinity. Like that one time he hilariously said he wanted to fight him. Biden would absolutely do something completely humiliating like challenge him to a pushup contest on stage at the first debate.
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Nov 19, 2019 14:31
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Apologies if this was posted before but just wow https://mobile.twitter.com/benkesslen/status/1196233122037280769
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Nov 19, 2019 14:44
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Ague Proof fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 15:19
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https://twitter.com/ThiaBallerina/status/1196590193496608768?s=20 warren literally knows nothing about anything
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Nov 19, 2019 16:22
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Lame Devil posted:I’m sure there is a good answer for this, just not sure what it is. Additionally to everything else mentioned, means testing is in many ways a way to cut costs /direct grift by providing opportunity for denying even those who are qualified in bureaucratic terms. "Sure, they needed the aid, but there weren't able to prove it in the proper timeframe in the proper way to the satisfaction of an arbitrary person and to an arbitrary standard". It also creates enormous wasted effort in the form of paperwork and tracking that's usually very expensive to the poor and needy, but some portion of that wasted wealth can be siphoned off and directed instead to organizations that enforce the means testing, which traditionally are owned by friends and families of the politicians in power. In summary, there's absolutely no good reason to means test unless you're engaged in corruption or want to kill the means tested policy, and a long list of reasons why you wouldn't want to. Falstaff posted:You keep saying this, but it's just not true. Everyone is ideological, and those most impacted by ideology are those who think they don't have any. They really aren't. Ideology requires a level of coherence the average voter does not possess. They're a mess of nonsensical biases and prejudices and things they care about but thats not the same as an ideology. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 16:35
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