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Nitrousoxide posted:I wish the Model Y was hatchback sized instead of crossover sized. Something like a Mazda 3 would be perfect for me. They have a CCS-adapter in Europe, the Model 3 is also CCS here so it's certainly possible. Their standard interface in Europe is Type 2 compatible though so it's a smaller gap to cross than with the proprietary US one.
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Nov 18, 2019 22:01
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Nitrousoxide posted:I'm not getting trapped in their DC fast charging ecosystem if they go tits up. Someone would buy them, the Tesla brand is too valuable. However I would very much like a ccs adapter.
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Nov 18, 2019 22:01
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Has there been a study done to see what percentage of people consistently adjust their physical knobs solely by touch? I’d look myself but I’m on the highway.
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Nov 18, 2019 22:32
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Yeah, I agreed with Doug DeMuro on his latest Tesla 3 review, you can have video games and fart noises but no HUD, heated steering wheel or cooling seats? It's a small change that would get more people on board for sure.
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Nov 18, 2019 22:33
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Yeah, I agreed with Doug DeMuro on his latest Tesla 3 review, you can have video games and fart noises but no HUD, heated steering wheel or cooling seats? bird with big dick posted:Has there been a study done to see what percentage of people consistently adjust their physical knobs solely by touch? I’d look myself but I’m on the highway.
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Nov 18, 2019 22:47
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Honestly just give me really good voice commands for everything that isn't music and the motive functions of the vehicle.
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Nov 18, 2019 22:53
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bird with big dick posted:Has there been a study done to see what percentage of people consistently adjust their physical knobs solely by touch? I’d look myself but I’m on the highway. Hehe! It's a subtle thing though. Solely by touch, perhaps very few. But touch enhances it. Say I'm adjusting the fan speed on an old style rotary thing. I glance over in the general area to locate the dial, then put my hand on it. Now my eyes can go back on the road while I fiddle with the setting, holding the button steadies my hand against bumps. With touch, you don't know if you are hitting the button unless you look at it and you can't steady your hand on the screen because then you activate fart noises or bind the steering wheel to the volume setting or whatever. We're not going back to all dials though. But on the Tesla you can fairly quickly change what the right scroll wheel does (in the S/X, think it's a bit different in the 3). If you take that concept farther, you can have an even quicker remote control thing where a set of up/down/ok/back buttons on the steering wheel gives you access to a whole bunch of settings, preferably in a configurable list of favorites or something. The visual feedback can be on the HUD. That would be much better than physical buttons on the center console. The Leaf isn't too far away from this, but you're leafing through a typically engineer-designed hierarchy of menus on the dash and it definitely takes attention away from the road.
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Nov 18, 2019 22:59
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Nitrousoxide posted:I wish the Model Y was hatchback sized instead of crossover sized. Something like a Mazda 3 would be perfect for me.
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Nov 19, 2019 00:52
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ilkhan posted:Yet their DC fast charging ecosystem is still a million times better than any alternative, on the rare occasional that you actually need to use it. It's certainly better, but I don't want to be beholden to just them for my charging. I want my car to use a standard port that will work at almost any DC fast charging station, or at THE VERY LEAST have an adaptor that works with them. You don't even have an option to use CCS here in the US, though there's a $500 adaptor for Chademo.
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Nov 19, 2019 01:38
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MrYenko posted:I just don’t see what their goal is. If anything, this was their chance to begin building a solid EV nameplate, but instead, they hitched it to Mustang. I just don’t get it, I guess. I'm kind of half-expecting them to just throw the middle finger out there and say "Oh by the way the production nameplate will be Bronco."
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Nov 19, 2019 03:25
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mobby_6kl posted:Farts cost a few hours of an intern's time to add, heated steering wheels and cooled seats would take a ton more money to engineer and to build, so it's no surprise this is what we got. In a 35 pk car that's ok, in a 60 I'd expect that poo poo to be there. A simple yet effective HUD shouldn't cost that much. It baffles me that they are so set on minimalism they refuse to put anything that's actually in the driver's line of sight that would be useful. But no, you wanna see how fast you're going? Look at the tablet 
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Nov 19, 2019 16:20
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Speaking of Tesla and CCS. Some enterprising people have been working on reverse engineering Tesla's CCS module. Possibly giving a easy way for DIY EVs to get CCS fast charging. https://openinverter.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=303
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Nov 19, 2019 16:26
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Ola posted:A front plate fills it out nicely. Unplugged Performance "Ascension" front fascia:    quote:They'll probably last the life of the car. The car can mix in full regen when you press the pedal, so while the brakes can actually brake, they will do little braking in their life. Same with discs, which is why they rust and bind up on EVs as Wibla said. VideoGameVet posted:Rear drums simplify the parking brake. If you have RWD, Regen is going to make up a lot of the braking anyway. Fair points that I had missed/not considered. The parking brake mechanism on most calipers can be a butt. Personally I prefer separate mechanical calipers for the parking brake, but only Ferrari or other high performance makes do that. I still hate drum brakes. Pain in the rear end. To be fair, I like in TX where rust is generally not an issue, so disc brakes rarely cause problems.
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Nov 19, 2019 19:31
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Applebees Appetizer posted:you wanna see how fast you're going? Look at the tablet I have never understood this thinking that it's utterly impossible to tell your speed without looking specifically at the speedometer. I'm not saying a HUD isn't an improvement, but I don't think it's this enormous difference that it's being made out as because there just isn't a huge difference possible. It won't help distracted drivers in the first place (the biggest issue today) and a non-configurable system isn't a robust answer for people with visual or cognitive issues that include inability to judge speed.
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Nov 19, 2019 20:10
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\Applebees Appetizer posted:But no, you wanna see how fast you're going? Look at the tablet Having driven a model 3, I don't understand why people are so up in arms over this. It took me no more than 5 seconds to get used to. The distance my eyes had to travel to see the speedo where really no different than a traditional one, its just in a different direction. I've driven some other cars with center mounted speedos that where much worse.
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Nov 19, 2019 20:30
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On my current car I have my phone in the middle of the center dashboard. When I'm navigating using google maps I frequently only keep track of my speed with what's on there and have no problem with that. I'd imagine it'd be easier with a big tablet there instead of a small phone screen.
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Nov 19, 2019 21:00
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It's not just looking at the speedometer, you have to look at a touchscreen in order to adjust controls. And we're not talking Google or Apple software here, we're talking Ford software.
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Nov 19, 2019 21:09
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I have to say the mach e looks pretty good. Like it's the first Ford I'd consider purchasing in decades. Some nice considerations that improve on the model 3, decent battery, nice interior. And it immediately struck me that there are no Ford logos. I hate to admit it but that lack of the logo improved my subconscious appraisal of the car quite a lot. I think they're gonna sell a lot of they can roll it out without too many issues.
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Nov 19, 2019 21:22
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I've only sat in a Model 3, not driven one, but for me the problem with the screen isn't looking at it for information, it's using it for controls I tend to fiddle with multiple times per trip while driving. Or in some cases, every ten seconds... Most importantly the wipers and the mirrors, but also the climate control. I've rented "modern" cars with touch screens for climate etc. and its just terrible. Oh, driving behind a garbage truck? If only it was an older car where the "don't stink" button is right here. I think a decent instrument cluster looks nicer, but looks are secondary. I also hated the doors, and the children who jumped in the passenger seat to play with the fart apps after I sat down had to ask me for help getting out so...
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Nov 19, 2019 21:24
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Family Values posted:It's not just looking at the speedometer, you have to look at a touchscreen in order to adjust controls. And we're not talking Google or Apple software here, we're talking Ford software. So, like the old Ford Focus, regularly stalls out and occasionally catches fire while attempting to turn left? I was completely soured on touchscreen controls after a small ship I was on had the radar replaced. The old one had been an antique with conventional knobs and buttons everywhere. After a bit of use it was quite obvious where the gain or anticlutter was even with minimal light in the wheelhouse. Unfortunately, whoever designed the new radar couldn't decide between whether they wanted an entertainment system or a mission critical navigation device. Poke the wrong part of the screen and it's asking about your movies. (Seriously, why do I want to control my music and other entertainment through this device? I'm supposed to be driving the boat, not looking at porn.) The control head had some buttons and sliders but there was no consistent pattern for when you were supposed to use a knob or start poking at menus on the touchscreen to make adjustments to the image. Add a bit of choppy weather and trying to adjust gain in the dark was like playing whack-a-mole while drunk. If these idiots are going to work that same magic on car controls it does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
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Nov 19, 2019 22:03
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Trip report. So I pulled the trigger on a 2016 Kia Soul EV+ ($13.5k), and I have to say it's a pretty great EV (I have a Model 3 and Spark EV for comparison). Having two complete opposite EVs, it's nice to find one that sits squarely in the middle in terms of comforts, space, and tech. The clincher was I plugged in an ODBII reader at the dealership to get a true reading on the battery state of health. It showed 105%, and 110% is considered new, so I surmised that the battery had been replaced. A quick call to the Kia dealership listed on the carfax confirmed it, so with my first charge I'm sitting at 107 miles on the range guesser. Here's the best part! After all the research I did, I still missed two important things that are a let-down now that I'm starting to use it. #1 You can't precondition the car from the app unless it's plugged in.  (even the spark does that). The app clearly showed it as an option (minus the caveat) and it was one of my prerequisites due to living in AZ. It also seems I can't locate the car unless I first turn on a "parking minder" when I'm in the car, because it's a glorified parking spot finder. So the ability to spy on my teens is lessened and I'll have to hide in bushes like parents of the past. Basically don't trust Internet pictures of EV apps.#2 I read that it's "actively cooled", but the battery isn't as protected thermally as I'd originally hoped. It's a step above the air-cooled leaf because it heats and cools the battery using the air from the cabin via some vents under the seats. So in hot weather it gets the AC benefit from the cabin, and in cold weather it gets heat since you'd naturally have the heat on. The problem is when you arrive at work and it then sits for 8 hours in a parking lot with no thermal management that I'm aware of. There is a battery fan under the back cargo area, but I don't know what scenarios cause it to activate. Regardless, still much more enjoyable to drive than the Spark EV in every way (except 0-60). It'll be interesting to see if the battery eventually drops farther than the liquid cooled Spark battery in the coming years, but it has 7 years and 65k miles left on the battery specific warranty, and my use case is to be a short range car anyway. So basically when you're done researching, double your research. OldPueblo fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Nov 20, 2019 |
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Nov 20, 2019 18:30
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So I find that I get much less than the advertised range (like 30% less) if I'm going over 70 MPH. Is that normal? It feels sort of lame, but I have ended up going like 72 on freeways instead of 80 like I would in a gas car. I get there slower, but I also don't have to charge. I have a Tesla M3 Performance by the way. Maybe it would be better with the smaller tires or something.
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Nov 21, 2019 00:21
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Highway fuel economy for gasoline vehicles is tested at 50 mph. Why would EV sellers use a different speed to calculate maximum distance? They'd just be making themselves look bad.
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Nov 21, 2019 00:34
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SerCypher posted:So I find that I get much less than the advertised range (like 30% less) if I'm going over 70 MPH. According to the laws of physics, yes (to some degree, at least). The faster you go, the more energy you lose to air resistance. It's not as noticeable with internal combustion because the efficiency of an engine is greatest within a certain range of RPM and power output, and most vehicles are designed so that average highway driving will have the engine close to that sweet spot. Electric motors don't vary in efficiency quite to the same extent, so you'll feel the effects of drag more easily.
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Nov 21, 2019 00:34
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SerCypher posted:So I find that I get much less than the advertised range (like 30% less) if I'm going over 70 MPH. The Model 3 Performance's 310 mile range was taken using 18" wheels. https://electrek.co/2019/11/08/tesla-breaks-down-model-3-performance-wheels/
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Nov 21, 2019 00:36
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Cockmaster posted:According to the laws of physics, yes (to some degree, at least). The faster you go, the more energy you lose to air resistance. More specifically, air resistance scales with the square of velocity. In the absence of wind, a car doing 70MPH will experience 36% more air resistance than a car doing 60MPH ((70^2)/(60^2) ~= 1.36). If you have a gas car with an instantaneous mileage display, you'll see this applies just as much to them as it does to electric cars -- going faster lowers your mileage, and thus de facto your range. I suspect people just don't notice as much because they aren't cued to pay attention to range in gas cars.
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Nov 21, 2019 00:44
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For the people wanting a wagon, VW showed off the Vizzzion for 2022: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29851066/vw-id-space-vizzion-concept-ev-revealed/ Not sure but something about the proportions is messing with how big it looks to me, like low roof and high door frame or something. And in this concept there’s electric skateboards under the trunk, which would actually be pretty neat for last mile stuff. Unless you can’t ride a skateboard in which case they’d be death machines. And RAV4 plugin officially announced as RAV4 PRIME: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29833650/2021-toyota-rav4-prime-photos-info/ 302 HP hybrid, 5.8s to 60, and 39 miles on electric. And paddles to adjust regen. "2021" model year set to go on sale next summer...I think I might end up with this. I’ve been wanting the EV Soul but god knows when that’s coming here, been considering waiting for VW Crozz once the Soul got delayed again...but in the back of my mind I still want gas range for occasional longer trips. And 39 miles would cover most of my daily driving no problem. SerCypher posted:So I find that I get much less than the advertised range (like 30% less) if I'm going over 70 MPH. This reminds me of something else, at what point would a multi speed transmission make a noticeable difference, or is the majority of losses still going to be from increased air resistance? The Taycan is the only one that’s bothered with it (dual speed) but no clue if there’s been any testing related to that specifically like high speed cruising efficiency or something.
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Nov 21, 2019 00:52
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Going significantly faster than 60 in my S drops range noticeably, but the optimal speed between superchargers is actually 100+ mph in most places because of the spacing between them, and the high charge speed at low SOC. That last bit, in relation to charge speeds at higher SOC, is what catches a lot of people out, since the goal is no longer max SOC, but optimal charging to make the charge stops more effective.
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Nov 21, 2019 01:51
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SerCypher posted:So I find that I get much less than the advertised range (like 30% less) if I'm going over 70 MPH. What number are you getting? Sub 300 Wh/mi? Is this a daily commute? Are you starting from 100%? I'm sure there's plenty of variables to work with here.
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Nov 21, 2019 06:56
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Apparently Byton got their license to sell in California, and a new one will receive two years of free charging on Electrify America with purchase. Unless you count Volvo being owned by Geely, I think that's the first Chinese auto manufacturer to aim to break into the US?
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Nov 21, 2019 07:16
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SerCypher posted:So I find that I get much less than the advertised range (like 30% less) if I'm going over 70 MPH. It depends on your exact comparison but it could be entirely realistic. I spent quite a lot of eyeball time on the MPG tracker on my Prius over the last five years and there's a particular commute to one of my kids' activities that I can do 99% on freeway (~80) or exact same distance on surface highways (~50), and get 38mpg on the freeway vs 56-ish on surface highway depending on lights. I get up to 5 mpg less the opposite direction because of a slight gradient over that distance and that could be a factor too if you're not comparing the same source and destination. There's an enormous rabbit hole of hypermiling that I peered probably too far over the edge of, and if you're coming from a vehicle that didn't give you that kind of immediate feedback before then it can be quite an adjustment to realize how all of those little things are adding up as you go about the same business you were ignorant of yesterday.
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Nov 21, 2019 07:31
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Thanks for all the responses, sounds like it's pretty normal. I wasn't just going by the range btw, you can look at the watts per mile on a graph and see it creep higher the faster you go. I have to drive like 600 miles this friday, so i guess it will probably make more sense to go a little slower and spend less time supercharging.
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Nov 21, 2019 08:26
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SerCypher posted:Thanks for all the responses, sounds like it's pretty normal. Travel time is actually faster the faster you go, up to a certain quite illegal speed, because it charges so drat fast. Depends on actually reaching the charger of course, and how long you want to stay vs how long you need to (if you're eating, you may as well be charging). Also, the efficiency number will be better once you've driven a while. Short trips show pretty low efficiency, particularly if it includes a bit on the highway.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:22
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I thought the math clearly said 100mph is the optimal speed. At least that's what I'd tell the cops.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:28
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SerCypher posted:Thanks for all the responses, sounds like it's pretty normal. For cars with 120kw+ DC fast changing, you're probably fine going the speed of traffic. As long as you're doing your charging at the max speeds (usually around 15-60% SOC) than you'll only spend at most 15 minutes at a charging stop most of the time. If your want to optimize for long trips, try this site https://abetterrouteplanner.com/
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Nov 21, 2019 14:03
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SerCypher posted:So I find that I get much less than the advertised range (like 30% less) if I'm going over 70 MPH. The average of the EPA highway cycle is about 50 but there's five tests now (starting for 2017) including a high speed cycle that's used to modify the highway cycle that has speeds up to ~80. And the highway cycle itself has speeds up to 60. From personal experience if I were to drive at a steady 50 mph in any of my gas/hybrid cars I would get better mpg than the EPA highway rating. The EPA highway rating as near as I can tell keeping track of highway mileage for 4 different cars for like 200,000 miles is equivalent to doing somewhere between 60 and 65 mph. Probably closer to 60. May not mean anything, but for reference my 2012 4 cyl Camry spent most of its life going 80 mph on I-80 and averaged 28-30 mpg, 14-20% below the highway rating, and my 2014 Accord Hybrid averaging somewhere between 75 and 80 mph averaged 39 mpg, 13% below its highway rating. A real loss of 30% even doing a constant 80 mph seems very large compared to what I've experienced with my ICE cars.
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Nov 21, 2019 15:01
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If you increase speed from 50 to 70, gas cars don't have the same % decrease in mileage as EVs do. Something about the ICE losing less energy as waste heat at higher power settings. Pumping losses could be a thing too, but the same effect is there with diesels. If you measure the absolute energy vs the distance travelled, the EV is of course more efficient at any speed.
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Nov 21, 2019 17:12
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Diesels are even better relatively speaking at high speeds, like you can really haul rear end without going into single digit mpgs when gas seems to go off the cliff. Is the Tesla truckling reveal today? This and the Half Life announcement make for a pretty exciting day even though I'm never buying a truck.
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Nov 21, 2019 18:54
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mobby_6kl posted:Diesels are even better relatively speaking at high speeds, like you can really haul rear end without going into single digit mpgs when gas seems to go off the cliff. Depends on how the car is geared - my family leased a couple of diesel Meganes to do a tour around Europe and economy fell off a cliff over about 105kmh. The Golfs we rented in the UK didn’t do much better either.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:01
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Tesla truck is today at 8PM Pacific. Adjust accordingly if you're in Europe. GM soft announced an EV truck coming in 2021. Supposedly it's a GMC Sierra.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:25
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