UKMT November 2019 - Andrew Can't Denounce Epstein Properly

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT November 2019 - Andrew Can't Denounce Epstein Properly

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Barry Foster: Dec 24, 2007; What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Necrothatcher posted:

Lol the Evening Standard is turbo hosed over that Corbyn interview.

How so? I don't see anything coming of it?

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:48

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# ? May 28, 2024 23:07

NinpoEspiritoSanto: Oct 22, 2013

Tory bus breaks down

You love to see it.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:48

Mr Phillby: Apr 8, 2009; ~TRAVIS~

God twitter is exhausting. Currently ~~wasting my loving life~~ doing a praxis by arguing with an insane Rabbi over AS. Never going to change his mind but I did manage to wrangke the conversation to the point where he's arguing that Boris Johnson isn't a racist, which is wild considering he thinks Corbyns comments about liking pigeons more than people shows genocidal intent.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:49

xtothez: Jan 4, 2004; College Slice

Necrothatcher posted:

Lol the Evening Standard is turbo hosed over that Corbyn interview.

I'm sure the four-figure fine IPSO will no doubt impose terrifies them.

Gort posted:

How so? What consequences do they face?

lol

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:49

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

https://twitter.com/alexhern/status/1197571964828868610

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:50

Necrothatcher: Mar 26, 2005

Barry Foster posted:

How so? I don't see anything coming of it?

Lawyers on twitter saying this is an open and shut libel case. Corbyn's team has the interview recorded showing he didn't say it. Possible front page apology needed. Perhaps even Osborne stepping down depending on the circumstance of how this happened.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:52

Doctor_Fruitbat: Jun 2, 2013

Gort posted:

How so? What consequences do they face?

For making up fictional, libellous quotes against a senior political candidate during an election, hopefully enough to make them very hurriedly do a full retraction.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:52

Foxtrot_13: Oct 31, 2013; Ask me about my love of genocide denial!

Former MP and (alleged) serial sex attacker has finally been brought to court after many years.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/21/alex-salmond-court-attempted-rape-charges-scotland-former-first-minister

Lots of questions still need to be answered over who knew what was going on but looked the other way. The political fallout should be far from over.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:52

Gort: Aug 18, 2003; Good day what ho cup of tea

Necrothatcher posted:

Lawyers on twitter saying this is an open and shut libel case. Corbyn's team has the interview recorded showing he didn't say it. Possible front page apology needed. Perhaps even Osborne stepping down depending on the circumstance of how this happened.

That would be extremely cool.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:53

Another Person: Oct 21, 2010

Spangly A posted:

The IFS saying the tax pledge's numbers add up but it cant be true because they dont want it to be.

this isn't really what it says at all but the IFS sucks poo poo anyway

IFS Statement posted:

Paul Johnson, IFS Director, said:
�The Labour Party manifesto offers a very substantial increase in the role of the state, one that is even larger than the big increase offered in their last manifesto. They estimate that their measures would push up day-to-day spending by �80 billion in 2023�24, which would be an almost 10% increase on what is currently planned. They estimate that their tax raising measures would bring in a similar sum, which if delivered would push the tax burden well above levels sustained in the UK since the Second World War. They also plan to increase investment spending by �55 billion a year, a doubling on current levels and even more than the substantial increases proposed by the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives.

There are risks with both the proposed spending increases and the proposed tax rises.

It will be extremely hard simply to deliver anything like this scale of increase in capital spending, at least in the near-term, certainly in an efficient and cost effective way. If the intention really is to scrap Universal Credit and replace it with an entirely new benefit system then, as the last decade has shown, this would come with the risk of huge administrative complexity and costs. A particularly expensive commitment is on the state pension age. Rather than allowing it to rise as longevity increases, Labour wants to keep it at age 66, a very expensive pledge in the face of demographic change. This would add a projected �24 billion a year to spending by the 2050s. The commitment to abolish university tuition fees remains an expensive giveaway to the highest earning graduates and has the potential to make it difficult to maintain a system without a cap on student numbers.

On the tax side the proposals in the Labour manifesto represent an enormous increase in the amounts they want to raise from corporation tax. If their proposals did raise the sums they suggest then we would be raising more in corporation tax, as a fraction of national income, than any other country in the G7, and more than almost anywhere else in the OECD. This would clearly come with substantial risks. The truth is of course that in the end corporation tax is paid by workers, customers or shareholders so would affect many in the population. In the end, it is unlikely that one could raise the sums suggested by Labour from the tax policies they set out. If you want to transform the scale and scope of the state then you need to be clear that the tax increases required to do that will need to be widely shared rather than pretending that everything can be paid for by companies and the rich.�

prelim breakdown of specific areas are also in this page: https://www.ifs.org.uk/election/2019/article/labour-manifesto-an-initial-reaction-from-ifs-researchers

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:54

jabby: Oct 27, 2010

https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1197570910653493249
She 'can't remember' the most explosive quote of her article, and 'hasn't time' to check it.

Labour are mad if they don't sue for libel over this, as well as demanding a police investigation under the Representation of the People Act.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:55

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

Necrothatcher posted:

Lawyers on twitter saying this is an open and shut libel case. Corbyn's team has the interview recorded showing he didn't say it. Possible front page apology needed. Perhaps even Osborne stepping down depending on the circumstance of how this happened.

Yeah I don't see much of that happening

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:57

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

sebzilla posted:

Got a link to the IFS stuff? Sounds nice.

here

The Labour manifesto, the thinktank says, proposes �an enormous increase in the amounts they want to raise from corporation tax. If their proposals did raise the sums they suggest then we would be raising more in corporation tax, as a fraction of national income, than any other country in the G7, and more than almost anywhere else in the OECD. This would clearly come with substantial risks.�

Labour outlined plans to raise corporation tax to 28%, put up income taxes to those earning more than �80,000, levy higher taxes on multi-nationals and increase the take from capital gains tax and dividend taxation. The �83bn would match the spending commitments laid out in the manifesto.

In the end, it is unlikely that one could raise the sums suggested by Labour from the tax policies they set out. If you want to transform the scale and scope of the state then you need to be clear that the tax increases required to do that will need to be widely shared rather than pretending that everything can be paid for by companies and the rich.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:57

big scary monsters: Sep 2, 2011; -~Ｓｋｕｌｌｗａｖｅ~-

dispatch_async posted:

https://twitter.com/alexhern/status/1197571964828868610

Easy mistake that anyone could have made to entirely and negatively change the meaning and tone of the words when transcribing from the recording. A quick word resulting in a commitment to do better in future is all that needs to come of this.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:58

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

I looked up Lynn Barber and surprise surprise

quote:

In July 2011, Barber was successfully sued by Sarah Thornton for libel and malicious falsehood over Barber's review of Seven Days in the Art World, published in The Daily Telegraph on 1 November 2008.[14][15]

# ? Nov 21, 2019 18:59

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

Another Person posted:

this isn't really what it says at all but the IFS sucks poo poo anyway

prelim breakdown of specific areas are also in this page: https://www.ifs.org.uk/election/2019/article/labour-manifesto-an-initial-reaction-from-ifs-researchers

the entire basis for the graun's headline and use of the ifs's bullshit is "clearly carries substantial risks", which is praxeology

specifically, it's "I really don't want this to be true so I'm going to say there are risks to doing this, despite these risks being based on a fallacious assumption that has only ever been refuted about productive capital fleeing from tax rates, rather than productive capital migrating towards heavy infrastructure development, which is a soundly researched effect of tax hikes"

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:01

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Mr Phillby posted:

God twitter is exhausting. Currently ~~wasting my loving life~~ doing a praxis by arguing with an insane Rabbi over AS. Never going to change his mind but I did manage to wrangke the conversation to the point where he's arguing that Boris Johnson isn't a racist, which is wild considering he thinks Corbyns comments about liking pigeons more than people shows genocidal intent.

Rabbi Pisher Pflach

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:03

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

TheRat posted:

Yeah I don't see much of that happening

outright libel is a lot worse than just general lying in terms of punishment that the paper/people can face

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:05

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

https://twitter.com/louisa_compton/status/1197563760988299266

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:07

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

Jose posted:

https://twitter.com/louisa_compton/status/1197563760988299266

I can't believe they've made the same mistakes as 2017 at each step, except now an alcoholic philanderer is making them instead of the naughty wheat fielder

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:10

CGI Stardust: Nov 7, 2010; Brexit is but a door,
election time is but a window.

I'll be back

Jose posted:

https://twitter.com/louisa_compton/status/1197563760988299266

Jeremy Frit Chicken

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:10

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

https://twitter.com/hannahlouisef/status/1197269081768026113

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:10

Gort: Aug 18, 2003; Good day what ho cup of tea

Jose posted:

https://twitter.com/louisa_compton/status/1197563760988299266

Shock as tories avoid campaigning at all again

goddamnedtwisto posted:

https://twitter.com/hannahlouisef/status/1197269081768026113

Pro click

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:12

Another Person: Oct 21, 2010

Spangly A posted:

the entire basis for the graun's headline and use of the ifs's bullshit is "clearly carries substantial risks", which is praxeology

specifically, it's "I really don't want this to be true so I'm going to say there are risks to doing this, despite these risks being based on a fallacious assumption that has only ever been refuted about productive capital fleeing from tax rates, rather than productive capital migrating towards heavy infrastructure development, which is a soundly researched effect of tax hikes"

oh i do not disagree that the IFS and Graun are full of poo poo here, we are in the same boat on that bit, they (e; they being the IFS) just don't really say that the numbers add up either. i believe the numbers do add up, definitely for the short term and probably for the medium term too.

but of course they don't say that labour's numbers add up, the IFS exists to prop up pro-market fiscal policy. as a tax researcher, thats the thing i know, that capital flight is hot bs, and that much more than the CTI rate impacts a corporate decision to locate (such as infrastructure, education, rents, existing double taxation treaties, etc.). however, while capital flight is BS, profit shifting is real, which is where I see real risk in this Labour strategy coming from (and also suggest Labour needs to follow a policy of challenging the OECD's model convention on double tax treaties and encourage the BEPS programme to continue more aggressively). investment, headquarters and incorporation won't leave, but the location that profits are declared at will be manipulated using the UK's staggering amount of treaties and the dodgy treatment of financial instruments in other countries.

what they do say is that if Labour's numbers add up then we are the highest tax G7 and one of the highest in the OECD (which is true), before saying it is unlikely they will raise those sums. as this is just a statement for the time being (they should have a full report next week, which will also be hot bs). but for the time being, they don't say it adds up, and they also lack a methodology for saying why they do not add up.

they do support labour's attacks on capital gains and dividends tho, surprisingly.

Another Person fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Nov 21, 2019

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:16

Scikar: Nov 20, 2005; 5? Seriously?

Spangly A posted:

"In the end, it is unlikely that one could raise the sums suggested by Labour from the tax policies they set out. If you want to transform the scale and scope of the state then you need to be clear that the tax increases required to do that will need to be widely shared rather than pretending that everything can be paid for by companies and the rich."

I think you missed a part of your post because this is an IFS part. But I can imagine we have a similar take - the IFS is perfectly happy for companies and the rich to take all of the gains from increased productivity and tax breaks. But as soon as we start talking about tax increases it becomes vital that we share the burden. It's bullshit, this is just a long overdue correction of neoliberal trickle-down policies which have been proven wrong. Of course you have to target it on the areas that got tax breaks in the first place.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:19

gh0stpinballa: Mar 5, 2019

probably minors but there is a weird purge happening on twitter right now of 1000+ follower uk left shitpost accounts. wario, reel, jude, bane TBEU all gone so far

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:20

ItohRespectArmy: Sep 11, 2019; Cutest In The World, Six Time DDT Ironheavymetalweight champion, Two Time International Princess champion, winner of two tournaments, a Princess Tag Team champion, And a pretty good singer too!
"When I was an idol, I felt nothing every day but now that I'm a pro wrestler I'm in pain constantly!"

So much hope for this election and the manifesto is pure fire.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:23

Another Person: Oct 21, 2010

yeah it owns

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:23

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

Another Person posted:

very fair arguments all round. I think we can all agree that Andrew Sparrow, one of the most persistently wrong political editors in the UK, does not appreciate any of the nuance here, and that nuance tends to make him shrivel and scream like a vampire caught in the sun.

Perhaps we could agree that the headline is the largest falsehood here and that frankly, a better attack would've been something along the lines of "labour manifesto poses risks of increased deficit spending, because companies love hiding money", but sadly that would require admitting that companies love shifting numbers in books to pay less taxes, which takes the attack in the opposite direction that Sparrow wants it to go

of course, I'm sure he's just reacting from perfectly justified fear - Sparrow has very good reasons to be afraid of a little red book

Scikar posted:

I think you missed a part of your post because this is an IFS part. But I can imagine we have a similar take - the IFS is perfectly happy for companies and the rich to take all of the gains from increased productivity and tax breaks. But as soon as we start talking about tax increases it becomes vital that we share the burden. It's bullshit, this is just a long overdue correction of neoliberal trickle-down policies which have been proven wrong. Of course you have to target it on the areas that got tax breaks in the first place.

oh yeah everything after that picture is just a straight quote of the relevant guardian post

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:24

Another Person: Oct 21, 2010

Spangly A posted:

very fair arguments all round. I think we can all agree that Andrew Sparrow, one of the most persistently wrong political editors in the UK, does not appreciate any of the nuance here, and that nuance tends to make him shrivel and scream like a vampire caught in the sun.

Perhaps we could agree that the headline is the largest falsehood here and that frankly, a better attack would've been something along the lines of "labour manifesto poses risks of increased deficit spending, because companies love hiding money", but sadly that would require admitting that companies love shifting numbers in books to pay less taxes, which takes the attack in the opposite direction that Sparrow wants it to go

of course, I'm sure he's just reacting from perfectly justified fear - Sparrow has very good reasons to be afraid of a little red book

agreed, sparrow is a turd

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:27

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

gh0stpinballa posted:

probably minors but there is a weird purge happening on twitter right now of 1000+ follower uk left shitpost accounts. wario, reel, jude, bane TBEU all gone so far

wariotifo posted here before moving to twitter. managed to get cameron's twitter account to fave one of his tweets when his name was Tebbits Cum Face with a picture of tebbit post bombing. IT was the only favourited tweet on camerons account at the time

its almost certainly rachel riley supporters mass reporting them

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:28

CGI Stardust: Nov 7, 2010; Brexit is but a door,
election time is but a window.

I'll be back

gh0stpinballa posted:

probably minors but there is a weird purge happening on twitter right now of 1000+ follower uk left shitpost accounts. wario, reel, jude, bane TBEU all gone so far

bit odd, that. twitter embarrassed at being a source of False News? didn't think jude was a shitpost account, though, seemed harmless

also they're not going to ban any Tories despite Tories being lie machines

^^^ hah, SA again is the root of all evil

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:29

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedUKPol/status/1197484866092318720?s=19

lmao

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:30

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

CGI Stardust posted:

bit odd, that. twitter embarrassed at being a source of False News? didn't think jude was a shitpost account, though, seemed harmless

also they're not going to ban any Tories despite Tories being lie machines

^^^ hah, SA again is the root of all evil

Gonna assume they've been hit by mass-reporting, Twitter does seem to suspend when a certain threshold of reports are met. It's been a favourite tactic of those lovers of free speech for years now.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:31

gh0stpinballa: Mar 5, 2019

CGI Stardust posted:

bit odd, that. twitter embarrassed at being a source of False News? didn't think jude was a shitpost account, though, seemed harmless

also they're not going to ban any Tories despite Tories being lie machines

^^^ hah, SA again is the root of all evil

people saying it might be cos of the riley stuff, others saying it's the "fake news" posts. jude doesn't do the parody articles tho so wtf.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:33

CGI Stardust: Nov 7, 2010; Brexit is but a door,
election time is but a window.

I'll be back

gh0stpinballa posted:

people saying it might be cos of the riley stuff, others saying it's the "fake news" posts. jude doesn't do the parody articles tho so wtf.

yeah, fake news doesn't seem right, but jude was pretty good at calling out nonsense in antisemitism reporting iirc, so the riley thing might be possible

goddamnedtwisto posted:

Gonna assume they've been hit by mass-reporting, Twitter does seem to suspend when a certain threshold of reports are met. It's been a favourite tactic of those lovers of free speech for years now.

i wonder if the left should get a botnet (or multiple botnets). seems like it's the done thing, shame to be behind the times

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:36

Sanitary Naptime: May 29, 2006; MIWK!

Bundy posted:

Best bits from Truss crashing and burning on Politics Live

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTmSfzeHdEo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv3tcVYiLEk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqFjVO6IAbA

Lmao

gh0stpinballa posted:

probably minors but there is a weird purge happening on twitter right now of 1000+ follower uk left shitpost accounts. wario, reel, jude, bane TBEU all gone so far

Has there been a roundup of all of this yet, because that�s hosed up

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:37

NinpoEspiritoSanto: Oct 22, 2013

Got some inspiration in my eye

https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1197569312543907841

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:38

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

TheRat posted:

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedUKPol/status/1197484866092318720?s=19

lmao

I dont see a journalist being booed?

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:39

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# ? May 28, 2024 23:07

sinky: Feb 22, 2011; Slippery Tilde

https://twitter.com/DaftLimmy/status/1197536395247726593

# ? Nov 21, 2019 19:41

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT November 2019 - Andrew Can't Denounce Epstein Properly

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