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I think that was Robert A Heinlein.
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Nov 20, 2019 11:15
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Didn't PKD have a... thing for incest, or am I thinking a different sci-fi author's weird fetishes? Literally all male and most in general fantasy authors are paedophiles with violent child rape fantasies in print. HTH.
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Nov 20, 2019 11:21
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Jerry Cotton posted:Literally all male and most in general fantasy authors are paedophiles with violent child rape fantasies in print. HTH. Terry Pratchett wasn't, you dick. You could have just said 'almost all' and been 100% right.
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Nov 20, 2019 11:25
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VanSandman posted:Terry Pratchett wasn't, you dick. Well, he's dead.
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Nov 20, 2019 11:48
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as we all know once you're dead you're a pedophile
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Nov 20, 2019 14:28
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Telemaze posted:I think that was Robert A Heinlein. 110%. One day I'll need to pull out the shame copy I still own of Time Enough For Love and post about it here. I remember reading it as a teenager and thinking it was so deep. Then as an adult, and needing to scrub clean my eyes and soul.
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Nov 20, 2019 15:07
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Jerry Cotton posted:Literally all male and most in general fantasy authors are paedophiles with violent child rape fantasies in print. HTH. emptyquote Telemaze posted:I think that was Robert A Heinlein. I rank Heinlein as being worse than the previously discussed at length in this thread Piers Anthony because Heinlein was also a fascist dipshit in addition to being a sex creeper.
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Nov 20, 2019 17:29
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I feel like there's a big difference between being called THE juice and just "juice" Juice Newton 
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Nov 20, 2019 20:03
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Didn't PKD have a... thing for incest, or am I thinking a different sci-fi author's weird fetishes? PKD is one of the few old-school sci fi authors where I can’t really think of any stories with any weird sex stuff. I feel like his grasp on reality was too tenuous for that. I don’t think Ellison’s stories had any, but he was also a notorious creep IRL so he doesn’t count.
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Nov 20, 2019 21:06
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I don’t think Ellison’s stories had any, but he was also a notorious creep IRL so he doesn’t count. quote:At a movie house, Blood claims to smell a woman, and the pair track her to an abandoned YMCA building. There, they meet Quilla June Holmes, a teenage girl from "Downunder”, a society located in a large underground vault. Before Vic can rape her, Blood informs the pair that a "roverpak" (a gang) has tracked them to the building and they have to fight them off. After killing a number of them, the trio hides in a boiler and set the structure on fire. Vic finally fornicates with Quilla June, and though she protests at first, she begins to come on to him. Blood takes an instant disliking to her, but Vic ignores him. Vic and Quilla June fornicate repeatedly, but eventually, Quilla June attacks him and takes off to return to her underground community. Vic, furious at her deception, follows her, despite Blood's warnings. Blood remains at the portal on the surface.
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Nov 20, 2019 21:12
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Dienes posted:Reminds me of Ender's Game, in which a child becomes president of the world because folks like his forum posts just that much. 
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Nov 21, 2019 06:40
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FMguru posted:From the wikipedia page for Ellison's "A Boy And His Dog" I have not read the story in question so I am not defending it or condemning it. That said, I would not trust Wikipedia plot summaries of anything, much less summaries of science fiction that go into that level of detail. The people who do that often miss the forest for the forest.
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Nov 21, 2019 13:12
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I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream - the sole women in the story (content warning for gross sex stuff obviously) sleeps with the four remaining men on earth with a mention of how she enjoys the one with the biggest dick most, who has been altered this way with low intellect to match by the evil supercomputer for funsies. In the game adaptation that I think Ellison oversaw she’s a rape victim and is psychologically tortured by making her prison a copy of the room it happened in and in her puzzle segments is forced to confront her rapist in order to continue, failing this fails her segment. It’s not graphic at all but it’s definitely not fun.
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Nov 21, 2019 15:20
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Ellison was actually super hands off with the game adaptation apparently. He had to approve everything that went into it, but he didn't really give any creative input according to the producer who met with him. So the gross stuff was on the game developers and that whole game intends to be disturbing and uncomfortable.
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Nov 21, 2019 17:18
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PJOmega posted:I have not read the story in question so I am not defending it or condemning it. That said, I would not trust Wikipedia plot summaries of anything, much less summaries of science fiction that go into that level of detail. The people who do that often miss the forest for the forest. That’s an accurate summary, despite being bizarrely phrased.
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Nov 21, 2019 17:38
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I've not read it, but I thought that was kinda the point of the novel? Everything is awful, they're the playthings of an sadistic entity that wants to do to them the equivalent of "pulling the legs off of a bug" for all eternity. Creatively.
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Nov 21, 2019 18:30
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Serephina posted:I've not read it, but I thought that was kinda the point of the novel? Everything is awful, they're the playthings of an sadistic entity that wants to do to them the equivalent of "pulling the legs off of a bug" for all eternity. Creatively. The idea that the best and only torture for women is rape is extraordinary ubiquitous in science fiction (in fiction in general) and honestly it generally shows the limitations of the person writing it.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:00
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Good point.
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Nov 21, 2019 21:34
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I read I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream sometime in the 00's, so my information is at least ten years old, probably more. The point of what happens to everyone is that the evil supercomputer has changed everyone's physiology and intellect to be antithetical or a weird perversion of what they once were. That (on its own) is fine to illustrate how a god-like being might toy with sapients it hates, but the problem comes in when you remember that the author created every aspect of who these people originally were. One of the men was super smart, and he got turned into a hulking gorilla type neanderthal. Another guy was a pacifist who is made to kill (?). And the woman is specifically written to have been chaste, so that the AI could make her crave dick against her will. ------------- Upon reading the wikipedia, I'm generally correct, but we have the  BONUS tidbit that the woman is the only person in the story with a specified race. She's black and only loves the big cocks now. Hooray!
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Nov 21, 2019 21:38
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I found a PDF of Master of the Universe, the original fic that became 50 Shades of Gray. It’s somehow even worse than the books. Like I was breaking out in nervous laughter at some of the poo poo in it.
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Nov 21, 2019 22:33
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AlbieQuirky posted:That’s an accurate summary, despite being bizarrely phrased. Fair, simply cautioning. Fiction wikikeepers are not the best in my experience. Most are about on par of hearing my niece tell me about a cartoon she watched two days ago.
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Nov 21, 2019 22:42
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Mokinokaro posted:Ellison was actually super hands off with the game adaptation apparently. He had to approve everything that went into it, but he didn't really give any creative input according to the producer who met with him. Wasn't Ellison the voice of AM?
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Nov 21, 2019 23:23
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SirSlarty posted:Wasn't Ellison the voice of AM? Yes he was, but Ellison was a luddite and really didn't understand much about the game outside of the art and writing ideas they had him approve. He didn't actually contribute any writing or that to it outside of the original novel. The ONE thing he originally pushed for was the game to only have bad endings, but the producer convinced him their idea of a more hopeful ending fit.
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Nov 22, 2019 00:32
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Elpato posted:I read I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream sometime in the 00's, so my information is at least ten years old, probably more. The point of what happens to everyone is that the evil supercomputer has changed everyone's physiology and intellect to be antithetical or a weird perversion of what they once were. Although it's worth noting that everything in the story is through the POV of one of the trapped humans, whose thoughts the computer explicitly manipulates at one point. So who knows how reliable any of the narration is. As for "A Boy and His Dog," while this isn't necessarily exculpatory, it takes place in a pretty stock shithole post-apocalypse, and Vic's not intended to be any sort of morally or even mentally healthy protagonist. And Quilla June is just out-and-out batshit crazy; her psycho underground Stepford society deliberately sent her up there to breed with a surface male because all of their men are shooting blanks.
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Nov 22, 2019 02:08
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That's all evidence of him being a sex weird.
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Nov 22, 2019 02:24
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:That's all evidence of him being a sex weird. He's an author. Did we really need more?
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Nov 22, 2019 02:31
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chitoryu12 posted:I found a PDF of Master of the Universe, the original fic that became 50 Shades of Gray. It’s somehow even worse than the books. Like I was breaking out in nervous laughter at some of the poo poo in it. That's no surprise. James probably had to rewrite the whole thing to get the Twilight out even before it got handed over to an editor who made their own cuts. I never read Masters, but I did read a little of Draco Veritas back in the day and hoo-boy did they clean that up to make Mortal Instruments.
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Nov 22, 2019 03:09
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Dan Olson / Folding Ideas has a long series of videos about Fifty Shades and while the focus is nominally on the movie there is a lot of discussion about both the books and the original web serial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzk9N7dJBec
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Nov 22, 2019 03:11
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Senior Woodchuck posted:Although it's worth noting that everything in the story is through the POV of one of the trapped humans, whose thoughts the computer explicitly manipulates at one point. So who knows how reliable any of the narration is. This is the literary criticism equivalent of the essays about how every scantily-clad video game character's outfit makes sense because it's ~her culture~ or ~it powers her magic~ or a thousand other excuses to dance around the fact that this is fiction created by a person for a reason
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Nov 22, 2019 03:17
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Ellison groped another author at a convention and then made a big rant attacking her after she refused to accept a "I'm sorry you were offended by my actions" nonpology he made.
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Nov 22, 2019 03:54
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C.M. Kruger posted:Ellison groped another author at a convention and then made a big rant attacking her after she refused to accept a "I'm sorry you were offended by my actions" nonpology he made. He sued everyone in sight, married a teenager while forty, bragged about jumping colleagues, mailed dead gophers and bricks to creditors, and yes, publicly groped a fellow author on stage. It's frankly a miracle he died of old age.
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Nov 22, 2019 04:07
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The only positive thing I can remember about Harlan Ellison at the moment is his brief feud with the Penny Arcade guys, whom he described as "superannuated teen-age golems," which is a valuable phrase to describe so many kinds of Internet People
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Nov 22, 2019 04:12
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Squidster posted:mailed dead gophers and bricks to creditors Yo this is a cool thing to do to money-people. He deserved to be beaten to death with lead pipes, sure, but that and the PA thing were genuinely cool and good.
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Nov 22, 2019 04:16
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When you're an rear end in a top hat 24/7, eventually you're an rear end in a top hat to someone who had it coming.https://www.wired.com/2017/10/geeks-guide-harlan-ellison/ posted:It turns out the comptroller of this publishing house had not given him a complete statement of accounts or something like that, and very simply didn’t return his phone calls. Harlan was polite—he did phone calls, he sent letters—and when nothing happened he said, ‘All right, I’ll make you answer.’ … Harlan managed to get a dead gopher, and he wrapped it up in a box, and he sent it by slow mail to the comptroller at the publishing house. And he sent it over a long weekend in August, to New York. When they opened it, the gopher had ripened to a considerable degree, and they had to fumigate the entire office. Some stories say they even had to repaint it.”
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Nov 22, 2019 05:16
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Squidster posted:When you're an rear end in a top hat 24/7, eventually you're an rear end in a top hat to someone who had it coming. Ellison loved to tell stories about how he made witty ripostes / got back at someone / put them in their place. Stories that weren't always true.
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Nov 22, 2019 07:59
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Antivehicular posted:The only positive thing I can remember about Harlan Ellison at the moment is his brief feud with the Penny Arcade guys, whom he described as "superannuated teen-age golems," which is a valuable phrase to describe so many kinds of Internet People
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Nov 22, 2019 08:25
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He's the rear end in a top hat sci-fi deserves, not the one it wants. His one saving grace.
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Nov 22, 2019 09:52
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Reminds me of the satirical murder mystery Bimbos of the Death Sun, where the victim (who damned near everyone at a sci-fi/fantasy convention had a reason to murder) was a thinly-disguised Harlan Ellison.
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Nov 22, 2019 11:03
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there wolf posted:That's no surprise. James probably had to rewrite the whole thing to get the Twilight out even before it got handed over to an editor who made their own cuts. I never read Masters, but I did read a little of Draco Veritas back in the day and hoo-boy did they clean that up to make Mortal Instruments. I think it was cited as 80% identical to the final book if you put it through a plagiarism detector. I did a comparison of some parts and 50 Shades has more descriptive language and massively fixes the grammar; James badly abused commas and ellipses in just about every paragraph. The fic also had a happy ending that she removed to justify making sequels. Otherwise, much of the book is identical or nearly identical, including all of the worst bits.
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Nov 22, 2019 14:47
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Antivehicular posted:This is the literary criticism equivalent of the essays about how every scantily-clad video game character's outfit makes sense because it's ~her culture~ or ~it powers her magic~ or a thousand other excuses to dance around the fact that this is fiction created by a person for a reason Sure, but its also worth bearing in mind that a character doing a thing in a book doesnt automatically mean that the author thinks that thing is cool and good. Nabokov wasnt a paedophile for example. Now, I'm not directly commenting on "A Boy and his Dog" because I havent read it (though I think I might have seen part of the movie maybe), but context is generally important. I dont know if it reads like "These are the excuses the author has put in to justify behaviour he seems to think is acceptable" or if it is "these are the things the author has put in to try and explore why people do hosed up things", and I dont think I personally can tell that from a wiki summary.
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Nov 22, 2019 15:20
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