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You could totally make Flash baseline and still give two other options they’d just have to balance it but that takes too much effort so for 99% of champions their is only one summoners choice.
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Nov 22, 2019 16:06
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Monathin posted:Gentle reminder that every time someone in this thread goes "how did riot think [x] was a good idea" the general answer is that "The PBE is a lawless wasteland full of outlier data that is basically worthless for its intended purpose". I don’t think you need play test data to realize that giving 1200-2400 gold worth of attack speed to jungle/top lane ad champs is out of line with the other lethality items.
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Nov 22, 2019 16:21
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There's also Shaco who usually takes Smite/Ignite like a loving psycho. I'm not bitter that trying to play with those spells feels so off that I've just given up on over learning him.
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Nov 22, 2019 16:34
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Monathin posted:Gentle reminder that every time someone in this thread goes "how did riot think [x] was a good idea" the general answer is that "The PBE is a lawless wasteland full of outlier data that is basically worthless for its intended purpose". While I don't disagree that it's likely to eat some tweaks, it may be worth noting that this version of Sanguine was iteration number 3 on the item and where Riot thought it was most balanced. Iteration 1 had the bonus trigger as an on-hit under conditions similar to Khazix isolation. Iteration 2 was very similar to live, albeit with less bonus attack speed. It seems they are really trying to push, well, split-pushers and melee duelists with it.
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Nov 22, 2019 16:39
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everyone, it is not bad design for preseason when riot pushes deliberately strong items. sanguine blade creates an alternative option for assassins to become split pushers, and riot is using this as a stress test to see how players can adapt. does it need nerfs? certainly — but the question is not “does it or not,” it is “how much of a nerf”. if riot over nerfs the item then the item - and consequently - the play style would be dead in the water.
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Nov 22, 2019 17:16
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Here I’m just thinking why Sanguine Blade has to exists in the first place
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Nov 22, 2019 17:17
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Smol posted:Here I’m just thinking why Sanguine Blade has to exists in the first place They want to try and open up the game to multiple different playstyles and win conditions instead of the focus on Baron control that's largely dominated in past seasons. Creating options to make split pushing stronger is one way they're trying to do it, while an increased focus on the importance of dragon (via Dragon Soul and a more powerful Elder) is another.
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Nov 22, 2019 17:25
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Does Baron buff scale? Maybe make it do a herald kinda thing for the first 10 mins it’s up then ramp it up over the course of the game.
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Nov 22, 2019 17:39
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Invalid Validation posted:Does Baron buff scale? Maybe make it do a herald kinda thing for the first 10 mins it’s up then ramp it up over the course of the game. It doesn't other than to get more health and do more damage so it remains an objective you need multiple people to take until you hit the ridiculously late game. If Baron scaled you could end up back with the old Banner of Command (RIP) funtimes of a baron cannon destroying a tower in 4-5 hits.
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Nov 22, 2019 17:49
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split pushing bad, team fighting good
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Nov 22, 2019 17:52
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add the ring of fire thing from the battle royale genre
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Nov 22, 2019 17:52
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sanguine blade is stupid on some champs like trundle. Its un bearable to try to fight him even when 30 cs and 2 kills ahead, at least as kled and with my poo poo abilities. But still, you get the point
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Nov 22, 2019 18:38
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I just dislike it because the counterplay to it is team based and I'm not confident in my own teamplay, let alone randos.
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Nov 22, 2019 18:45
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pog boyfriend posted:everyone, it is not bad design for preseason when riot pushes deliberately strong items. I guess I just have a fundamentally different viewpoint. Yes, preseason should be used to shake the game up and implement large scale changes. That doesn't mean that they should just throw in egregiously overtuned items on the grounds that they can nerf it down later. That just makes it harder for them to isolate out the impact of other changes like dragon/rift herald/runes/etc. It's the Feral Flare/Devourer/Juggernaut update problem, because now you can't tell how the other changes play out because everything revolves around that one specific aspect of the meta.
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Nov 22, 2019 18:50
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Action George posted:Yes, preseason should be used to shake the game up and implement large scale changes. That doesn't mean that they should just throw in egregiously overtuned items on the grounds that they can nerf it down later. Adding an item as significantly powerful as Sanguine Blade, with a specific intent behind its inclusion (empowering sideline split-pushing as a viable strategy) is only really possible during preseason without massively disrupting ranked. While it's true that preseason has multiple other simultaneous changes, they've got a large enough volume of data - there's millions of games being played every day, remember - that they can decompose it to isolate individual factors like Sanguine Blade to try and suss out its overall impact.
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Nov 22, 2019 18:59
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They disrupt ranked all the time each season for one reason or another. I agree they should just think things through a little more but balancing is not their intention with preseason so whatever.
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Nov 22, 2019 19:37
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I don't think a few weeks of everyone building 5 black cleavers provided much needed info for future patches. And the entirety of season 9 was screwed up because of them pushing their terrible role-queue idea at the start and even after it was removed still had to deal with the fallout of it from people hitting master after a dozen games and then falling from it immediately because they were low plat at best. Not to mention adding Conqueror halfway in and deciding tanks weren't allowed to solo lane anymore and that the Reign of Bruiser Assassins shall begin. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 22, 2019 19:39
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Vermain posted:Adding an item as significantly powerful as Sanguine Blade, with a specific intent behind its inclusion (empowering sideline split-pushing as a viable strategy) is only really possible during preseason without massively disrupting ranked. While it's true that preseason has multiple other simultaneous changes, they've got a large enough volume of data - there's millions of games being played every day, remember - that they can decompose it to isolate individual factors like Sanguine Blade to try and suss out its overall impact. Yeah, I'm not saying that this is the wrong time to introduce these changes, just that some things are so obviously out of line with the rest of the power balance in the game that they shouldn't be introduced in that state. Basically, Invalid Validation posted:They disrupt ranked all the time each season for one reason or another. I agree they should just think things through a little more but balancing is not their intention with preseason so whatever.
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Nov 22, 2019 19:41
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Sanguine Blade hotfixed - now gives 20% less attack speed on the level spread. So, 40% -100% --> 20% - 80%. Still a lot of stats, probably - like Wits End - better as a second pickup since the biggest scaling spikes happen later in levels. Still going to be the ideal splitpush/sidelane item.
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Nov 22, 2019 19:45
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Ez was apparently so bad post Klepto removal that he had to be hotfix buffed. That's impressive.
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Nov 22, 2019 20:42
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formally hotfix him out of the game
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Nov 22, 2019 21:17
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From what I can see Illaoi's WR is also plummeting after it's removal Edit: might need more time to see for sure, Blitz has her WR dropping 2% but OP has it dropping less than 1
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Nov 22, 2019 21:23
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*everyone on summoners rift nodding sadly, "aint it a shame!" before turning away and pumping their fists*
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Nov 22, 2019 21:24
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:I don't think a few weeks of everyone building 5 black cleavers provided much needed info for future patches. well black cleaver exists in the game and its honestly one of the more successful items theyve made so it seems like it works Nazzadan posted:From what I can see Illaoi's WR is also plummeting after it's removal might be conq or a bunch of other things tbh. klepto illaois were not the ones i was afraid of
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Nov 23, 2019 00:23
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Sanguine blade on shen is kinda funny since it lets him mince towers pretty rapidly if he builds it second item after titanic. And because he's shen he will splitpush forever until you finally go to answer him then he TP's away like a bitch.
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Nov 23, 2019 00:30
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:I don't think a few weeks of everyone building 5 black cleavers provided much needed info for future patches. beaten by verv. the item being strong is what let riot scale it back to the point where it still is strong, but is not game warping. Action George posted:I guess I just have a fundamentally different viewpoint. Yes, preseason should be used to shake the game up and implement large scale changes. That doesn't mean that they should just throw in egregiously overtuned items on the grounds that they can nerf it down later. the items are being put it overtuned as an experiment, to see how well the players adapt. since this item is pushing the meta in a different direction, it actually needs to be slightly overtuned or it will not work. if the item was balanced, it would not push the archetype of "split push assassin" since being on par with things that players are comfortable with and less prone to error just means players will pick the comfortable thing and go 'oh neat' for a year until some pro player figures out an optimal strategy and suddenly riot has to hard nerf it since nobody has any counterplay and players are losing their mind in the middle of the regular ranked season.
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Nov 23, 2019 00:44
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But do they need to have a item for a specific archtype that pushes out tank and AP split pushers solely because the item gives out x2 as much gold value as anything else that can be picked up? does there need to be a item added that forces the enemy team to give you a number advantage instead of that being a champion select case of nobody picking someone who can split vs the enemy's pick? This is banner of command all over again but with the minion stats just going to the player character to outduel anyone.
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Nov 23, 2019 01:02
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It's very rare in my games for assassins to actually pick up sanguine blade. It's usually a top lane fighter like Kled or Shen or a jungle fighter like Jarv or Lee. Like, they could replace lethality with flat AD or something and I'd think that's a perfectly normal fighter item. It'd still suck though, as I cannot be confident in my jungle's ability to gank top.
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Nov 23, 2019 01:02
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Monathin posted:Gentle reminder that every time someone in this thread goes "how did riot think [x] was a good idea" the general answer is that "The PBE is a lawless wasteland full of outlier data that is basically worthless for its intended purpose". the intended purpose of the PBE is to make sure that stuff is not literally breaking the game, they dont really use it as some kind of source to take balance information from
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Nov 23, 2019 03:44
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when was the last time a server crashing bug made it onto the live servers?
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Nov 23, 2019 03:57
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testing out support pant and it seems pretty good. I will keep u updated goons.
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Nov 23, 2019 04:48
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Who’s a relatively safe character in each role to relearn the game/meta with at the moment?
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Nov 23, 2019 04:50
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Aerox posted:Who’s a relatively safe character in each role to relearn the game/meta with at the moment? pantheon in every lane and im not kidding. jump in gamer
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Nov 23, 2019 04:53
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pantsup trip report: its better than I thought. I’m very bad at aiming spear and E so I think it could be good. spear chunks the adc hard if you can hit an empowered one, the problem is getting all the stacks to empower it in the first place. scythe feels better, but shoulderpads are probably the best choice, since executions get you a stack of his passive. I really want to like pnth since I loved the old one so much, but I’m very bad at keeping track of passives like his and annies. that’s the fat mike report on support pantheon, see you on the rift summoners.
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Nov 23, 2019 05:28
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Pantheon support was a thing back in season 9, problem is after your strong early game all that your left with is a worse, more selfish Braum whose ultimate is a way to suicide faster.
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Nov 23, 2019 05:36
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Pantheon support was a thing back in season 9, problem is after your strong early game all that your left with is a worse, more selfish Braum whose ultimate is a way to suicide faster. i feel like theyre trying to encourage weird ad picks with the new items but i guess the search continues.
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Nov 23, 2019 05:47
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Aerox posted:Who’s a relatively safe character in each role to relearn the game/meta with at the moment? I have been enjoying getting back and re learning the game with kled on top. ITs a nice champ fun, easy to use and likes to all in all time every time. All day, every day
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Nov 23, 2019 08:44
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Whatever you do don't forget that Kled goes forward. There's what he does. He goes forward. All in, all the time, forever.
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Nov 23, 2019 09:07
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I continue failing my way towards some better mechanical understanding of the game, and repeatedly find myself in 4 v 5s due to someone going afk because they didn't get their preferred role / lane. This 3 v 5 was especially heart-breaking, because we somehow managed to dominate the other team for the majority of the game, to the point where their Nexus was maybe a couple of autoattacks away from being taken out. 
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Nov 23, 2019 10:23
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Pro-tip: reporting players for being AFK doesn’t do anything, so don’t waste your time with it.
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Nov 23, 2019 10:28
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