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Cup Runneth Over posted:I just meant getting dragged into the street and shot by rebels, not that literally Gaddafi'd fashion is cyclical, so Winnie Mandela neckties becoming a must have for fascists this christmas would be wonderful.
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Nov 22, 2019 18:52
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upgunned shitpost posted:fashion is cyclical, so Winnie Mandela neckties becoming a must have for fascists this christmas would be wonderful. Maybe since they are so obsessed with bringing the Bible back to the Palace, they could be helped to get more in touch with Jesus?
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Nov 22, 2019 18:57
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Elias_Maluco posted:Some practical democracy in Chile too Never a good sign when you get thrown in a blacked out van
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Nov 22, 2019 19:33
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Winter Rose posted:In non Bolivia news, Colombia closes borders as it braces for nationwide strike https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/11/21/americas/colombia-national-strike-intl/index.html The protests in Colombia were mostly peaceful. On the smaller size than what was expected. Cross-party and political position. In cali there were some violent confrontations and some people broke into a few businesses and looted, mostly smaller business and bread stores. Not many of the big malls or anything. It really didnt' make a whole lot of sense. But vandals took advantage of the situation that the mayor of Cali set a curfew and tried to start breaking into gated communities and homes in the southern half of the city as night dropped and it ended up escalating into everyone in the south of the town standing in front of their buildings gates with brooms and machetes because they were afraid of their homes getting broken into even though the break ins were probably not as many as it seems was reported. Whatsapp has contributed drastically to the sense of paranoia in several cities across the country as each individual event gets spread around in chains and made to seem like a bigger issue than it was. This morning a group of like 12 people were going around the center of Cali threatening people and businesses and they shut down the businesses and everyone got super paranoid and they brought tons of police to the whole zone and there are tons of rumors going around because of that. The looting that occured overnight in Cali seems to have spread to Bogota this afternoon. I think it has mostly to due with criminals taking advantage of the situation. https://twitter.com/ELTIEMPO/status/1197974116084703233 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObgQS2liXRQ Mind you the protest was yesterday, it ended with a cacerolazo nationwide that was much larger than the actual march. And the cacerolazo seems to be being repeated tonight. A curfew has been set in Bogota tonight. Looks like things are going down in bogota just like Cali last night now.  Mind you the cities have been heavily militarized and there is a strong police presence everywhere. The infamously violent anti-riot police the ESMAD have also been present hitting people in unprovoked manors. There was a cacerolazo programmed at 4:30 this afternoon in the plaza of Bolivar that was dispersed by them with riot gas for really no reason. Presidents talking right now. Saying a whole lot of nothing. Edit: I would also like to add a lot of people here are blaming Venezuelans and saying that the people going around breaking in are Venezuelans. We don't have any exact evidence that this is the case. The accusations need to be watched carefully to ensure that no one group is being accused who are clearly innocent. I'm not saying that it's not possible that the groups involved are Venezuelan, considering over 1.3 million Venezuelans have entered Colombia in the past 2 years, but there simply isn't any evidence either way. ThanosWasRight fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 00:54
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THS posted:people will be openly against “democracy” when the new elections either ban or kneecap MAS not me though. I'll be here saying that's bad. Cerebral Bore posted:Dude you were literally both sidesing and well we just can't know-ing a literal christofascist military coup, you don't get to pretend that you're some kind of great defender of democracy. if you take issue with something i've said quote it and then we can talk about it. As it is now I can't even tell what I've said that you disagree with, besides maybe my tone. Lightning Knight posted:The police are gassing funeral processions in the streets of Bolivia but it is the duplicitous western leftists who oppose democracy, not the right wing coup supporters. I mean I wasn't talking about "western leftists" as an undifferentiated mass. There were several people itt even before the coup who were explicitly against democracy, and openly or implicitly supportive of electoral fraud if it helps people they like. I don't want to quote them now, definitely not to a mod, but they weren't being coy about it. You can easily find me engaging them on the first page of my post history.
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Nov 23, 2019 01:04
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There was no electoral fraud. There was allegations and morales said he would be happy to have re-elections with more independent observers. And the ones pushing allegations of fraud decided storm the capital buildings and force out Morales at gun point. It’s brazen that you are still pushing the ousting of a democratic leader as democracy. What kind of mental gymnastics does it take to cal people who support keeping a democratically elected leader in power over a coup as the undemocratic ones.
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Nov 23, 2019 01:46
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Squalid posted:not me though. I'll be here saying that's bad. 'the problems are bad, but the causes... the causes are very good.'
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Nov 23, 2019 02:01
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Squalid posted:not me though. I'll be here saying that's bad. Are you still refusing to state that you believe this is or is not a coup?
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Nov 23, 2019 03:35
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There are reports of groups of thieves trying to enter gated apartment buildings all around Bogota, although mostly in the poorer neighborhoods. From the amounts of reports that are coming in it either has to be happening a lot or there is a lot of Paranoia. A young girl and her boyfriend I helped flee Venezuela are saying that people are standing in front of their apartments with broomsticks.
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Nov 23, 2019 03:36
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I’m in Bogotá staying at a hostel right now and didn’t even realize about the curfew until about a half hour ago when I tried to go out and get some food and the people here were like... nah. I’ve been busy with stuff to do so haven’t kept abreast of the situation but no one seems to know how long it will last or how far the protestors or government will go. One dude staying here tried to take a bus to Cali today but that wasn’t happening. I’m staying west of the center (Chapinero) which is out of the main demonstrating areas in the north and south but people here are banging on pots and pans out of their windows as the police patrol by. Went marching for a bit yesterday in the morning, right at the beginning of the strike, and among us were a few masked protestors smashing whatever (publicly-owned) glass they could with hammers. By all accounts poo poo has only escalated since then. I don’t really have much insight but that’s my limited experience. I’ll be checking this thread for info, context and updates, as I’m woefully unversed in Colombian politics. Also my experience is that there is a ton of misinformation and a ton of conspiracy slinging all over the place so I feel like this is one of the only sources I can trust to a reasonable extent. Thanks in advance to anyone who can/will parse through the bullshit.
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Nov 23, 2019 03:37
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So the right ringer, libertarian, mises loving right winger on the Colombian forum I follow is saying the people doing this are....... The police or paramilitaries. Which is making a lot of loving sense right now. Because trying to rob a bunch of gated apartment buildings during a curfew instead of the businesses which are all unguarded. It makes zero loving sense and it's way too organized.
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Nov 23, 2019 04:03
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There's also videos of groups of vandals arriving in brand new trucks that are used by the police and military to transport people during a loving curfew where half the cities are militarized. That makes ZERO loving sense. If true This is an attempt by the right wing to generate fear and damage the image of the protest. https://mobile.twitter.com/angelamr...059432145555457
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Nov 23, 2019 04:08
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Marenghi posted:It’s brazen that you are still pushing the ousting of a democratic leader as democracy. What kind of mental gymnastics does it take to cal people who support keeping a democratically elected leader in power over a coup as the undemocratic ones. are you addressing me? I'm not sure what you are talking about. Also I'm not calling people who support keeping democratically elected leaders in power undemocratic. I was saying people who support electoral fraud and oppose liberal democracy are undemocratic. You could dispute this by arguing liberal democracy is not real democracy but then you would be making a semantic argument, so whatever. Trabisnikof posted:Are you still refusing to state that you believe this is or is not a coup? I think you might be confusing me with someone else? I don't know where you are going with this. If it sometimes seems I'm playing coy I do make a point of avoiding arguments over subjective issues or how we should feel about events, since those are discussions that do not interest me. If you must know, I've repeatedly called this a coup including on the last page. I don't know why that would interest you though, establishing it was a coup doesn't tell us anything.
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Nov 23, 2019 04:09
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Most comments on local media and facebook posts on reporting here seems to indicate many Colombians believe that the police are behind this. I for one am surprised that Chile's government did not consider using this tactic. ThanosWasRight fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 04:52
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ThanosWasRight posted:There's also videos of groups of vandals arriving in brand new trucks that are used by the police and military to transport people during a loving curfew where half the cities are militarized. ThanosWasRight posted:Most comments on local media and facebook posts on reporting here seems to indicate many Colombians believe that the police are behind this. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some right-wing agents provocateurs involved for that reason, but at the same time...knowing there are still plenty of organized criminal gangs in the country, including armed guerrilla dissidents and anarchist extremists as well as drug cartels, it's probably not just one single monolithic type of "vandals" going around. In other words, during a messy situation like a mass nationwide protest in Colombia a lot of factions will want to try fishing and see what they can catch. Also, contrary to one claim above, there have been videos showing regular looting of businesses too. That doesn't mean your initial claim is wrong, but it is almost certainly incomplete.
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Nov 23, 2019 05:00
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wielder posted:I wouldn't be surprised if there were some right-wing agents provocateurs involved for that reason, but at the same time...knowing there are still plenty of organized criminal gangs in the country, including armed guerrilla dissidents and anarchist extremists as well as drug cartels, it's probably not just one single monolithic type of "vandals" going around. There was no looting following the curfew during the evening. It was all during the day, during the actual protests. You'll see that very clearly in your videos.
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Nov 23, 2019 05:03
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ThanosWasRight posted:There was no looting following the curfew during the evening. It was all during the day, during the actual protests. You'll see that very clearly in your videos. Yeah, I wasn't restricting my comment to that particular time of the day. It was a more general remark.
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Nov 23, 2019 05:05
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Idiotic stupid mayor of Bogota says there is a "orchestrated fear campaign" https://twitter.com/EnriquePenalosa/status/1198088194606153729
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Nov 23, 2019 05:30
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Look at that dude unable to contain his laugh
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Nov 23, 2019 05:40
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ThanosWasRight posted:I for one am surprised that Chile's government did not consider using this tactic. But they did. Or at least that's the general assumption about some of the fires (the weird Enel building fire) and looting that happened in Santiago.
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Nov 23, 2019 13:50
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ThanosWasRight posted:I for one am surprised that Chile's government did not consider using this tactic. While it doesn’t sound as pervasive as you’re making it sound there, it definitely seems to be happening here in Chile too. There has been a selection evidence, and constant accusations of police participating in violent actions, including uniformed police participating in looting, and even one incident where uniformed officers accidentally beat the poo poo out of a plainclothesed officer who infiltrated the protests. Then there are the incidents where the police/military turn a blind eye if it’s convenient for them. Inviting protestors to loot businesses, leaving busses and metro stations unguarded and unlocked, things like that. It’s events like these that caused me to take a picture of an unlocked, open, empty castaño at 10:30 last night, in case it appeared burned in the morning. Any event that occurs during this protest comes accompanied with accusations of montaje, and with good reason. Another suspicious thing is a lot of common crimes have disappeared from the news. If everything is so chaotic now, where are the “terrorist attacks” in the Araucania? Where are the portonazos? Where are the narco shootouts? Surely, with police being stretched so thin, these common events should’ve increased, not seemingly disappeared, right?
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Nov 23, 2019 14:01
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Squalid posted:I don't know why that would interest you though, establishing it was a coup doesn't tell us anything. That is an extremely odd way to think. I am imagining a detective investigating a killing, and then saying to his partner, "Establishing that it was murder doesn't tell us anything." What the gently caress does that mean?
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Nov 23, 2019 16:01
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Seems bad https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/1198255778467139585
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Nov 23, 2019 17:04
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Squalid posted:If it sometimes seems I'm playing coy I do make a point of avoiding arguments over subjective issues or how we should feel about events, since those are discussions that do not interest me. lmao you are so much loving dumber than you think you are (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 23, 2019 18:59
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THS posted:lmao you are so much loving dumber than you think you are careful, you'll get probated for that.
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Nov 23, 2019 19:03
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Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:That is an extremely odd way to think. I am imagining a detective investigating a killing, and then saying to his partner, "Establishing that it was murder doesn't tell us anything." What the gently caress does that mean? Likewise, okay there was a "coup" but Bolivia clearly still exists you know? Think about it.
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Nov 23, 2019 19:14
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:I mean what is a murder, really, when you think about it? There is a body there, sure, but there was a body there before, too. Somebody did something and now that body no longer moves of its own accord. Those are discussions that do not interest me.
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Nov 23, 2019 19:18
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Squalid posted:are you addressing me? I'm not sure what you are talking about. Also I'm not calling people who support keeping democratically elected leaders in power undemocratic. I was saying people who support electoral fraud and oppose liberal democracy are undemocratic. You could dispute this by arguing liberal democracy is not real democracy but then you would be making a semantic argument, so whatever. Your reticence to even acknowledge the existence of a coup is, combined with your racism towards indigenous people, pretty convincing evidence that you tacitly support it. We really do not need people like you posting on this forum, sorry.
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Nov 23, 2019 19:22
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Salean posted:Those are discussions that do not interest me. edit: "coup, no coup, what difference does it make? Im sending my thoughs and prayers for the good people of Bolivia, thats what matters"
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Nov 23, 2019 19:31
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https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/United-Nations-Presents-a-Peace-Building-Agreement-for-Bolivia-20191123-0003.html The UN has offered to oversee the new elections under the condition that the coup government gets to ban Evo Morales from running. There's your democracy, Squalid.
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Nov 23, 2019 19:44
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Cup Runneth Over posted:https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/United-Nations-Presents-a-Peace-Building-Agreement-for-Bolivia-20191123-0003.html Excuse me, the MAS agreed to this and was in no way under duress! MAS leadership being rounded up over the last week and american style most wanted cards on tv had nothing to do with it! You probably also think that there was a coup in Bolivia! #nohaygolpeenbolivia
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Nov 23, 2019 19:53
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morales absolutely has got to be allowed to run again at this point, the idea that a fair election can be carried out without MAS having time to find a new candidate or letting morales participate is ridiculous on its face
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Nov 23, 2019 19:59
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V. Illych L. posted:morales absolutely has got to be allowed to run again at this point, the idea that a fair election can be carried out without MAS having time to find a new candidate or letting morales participate is ridiculous on its face They're not only gonna exclude Morales, but every other prominent MAS figure, and the world is gonna laud the free and fair elections that finally brings Bolivia back into the fold of good liberal politics. The bolivian people simply had enough of the socialist experiments!
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Nov 23, 2019 20:06
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The elections are going to be like that Simpsons episode where the two candidates are the aliens except with actual literal nazis
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Nov 23, 2019 20:57
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Redczar posted:While it doesn’t sound as pervasive as you’re making it sound there, it definitely seems to be happening here in Chile too. There has been a selection evidence, and constant accusations of police participating in violent actions, including uniformed police participating in looting, and even one incident where uniformed officers accidentally beat the poo poo out of a plainclothesed officer who infiltrated the protests.
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Nov 23, 2019 21:07
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The "president" already went on TV to say that they will not enact the law that would grant regular constitutional protection for all the MAS members currently threatened with trumped up charges that was supposed to go along with the new elections
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Nov 23, 2019 22:39
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It's been ten days since I last read this thread. What's happened since, besides well Bolivia's spiral into apartheid? Regarding Mexico: Is the media or govt preparing for a massive documentary series regarding their independence period?
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Nov 23, 2019 22:46
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big happy birthday shoutouts to resistance daddy Maduro.
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Nov 23, 2019 22:50
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Spice World War II posted:The "president" already went on TV to say that they will not enact the law that would grant regular constitutional protection for all the MAS members currently threatened with trumped up charges that was supposed to go along with the new elections Sauce?
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Nov 23, 2019 23:16
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Darth Walrus posted:Sauce? https://twitter.com/ArturoMurilloS/status/1198366583699255297 https://twitter.com/OPR_Noticias/status/1198367071995867138 There was a response from a MAS senator who tried to clarify that it wasn't "immunity" that was asked for, but I can't find it among the rabid pro LOCK HIM UP tweets anymore. In any case, immunity is only for the military, silly Evo Edit: Bonus tweet https://twitter.com/victori7x/status/1198365239638724610 Spice World War II fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 23:29
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