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Dark Knight Rises is thoroughly liberal in its sensibilities. Batman might be a bad idea, but revolutionaries are always acting in bad faith to manipulate the stupid masses, who must be kept in line. Thank god for our brave uniformed police officers and men fighting overseas!
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Nov 25, 2019 19:55
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Mr Interweb posted:so i finally saw Joker the other day. some thoughts. first, where on earth did the idea that this was supposed to be a movie for incels come from? the film literally has nothing at all to do with sex. if the film is directed at anything, it seems like it would be directed at our mental health system. but that being said, the movie also kind of muddles things up with people in joker masks going around destroying property and killing the rich. in this sense, the movie is frustratingly like the dark knight rises in that it doesn't seem to have a specific political agenda, and you could walk away with whatever moral you feel aligns with your ideology. It was a marketing campaign that's horseshoe theory for lady ghostbusters
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Nov 25, 2019 19:58
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The reaction I saw was mostly people finding it tedious to sympathize with yet another tormented white man who deserves special consideration for behaving badly because of his exquisite and unique pain, along with mention that mass shooters tend to fall into the Travis Bickle category.
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Nov 25, 2019 20:07
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Business Gorillas posted:It was a marketing campaign that's horseshoe theory for lady ghostbusters 100% this.
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Nov 25, 2019 20:16
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Mr Interweb posted:so i finally saw Joker the other day. some thoughts. first, where on earth did the idea that this was supposed to be a movie for incels come from? the film literally has nothing at all to do with sex. if the film is directed at anything, it seems like it would be directed at our mental health system. but that being said, the movie also kind of muddles things up with people in joker masks going around destroying property and killing the rich. in this sense, the movie is frustratingly like the dark knight rises in that it doesn't seem to have a specific political agenda, and you could walk away with whatever moral you feel aligns with your ideology. it came from columnists who had to meet a deadline and the most recent thing they saw was the joker trailer
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Nov 25, 2019 20:17
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Mr Interweb posted:so i finally saw Joker the other day. some thoughts. first, where on earth did the idea that this was supposed to be a movie for incels come from? the film literally has nothing at all to do with sex. I agree mostly, but were you in the bathroom for the scene where he comes back from killing the train guys and walks directly to Zazi Beats apartment and starts making out with her? He also keeps clippings of porn in his notebook it's definitely an undertone to the movie/character, but it's not important theme. Edit: it's not even really an undertone, it's more like small character moments to establish that he does have sexual urges. Intel&Sebastian has issued a correction as of 20:41 on Nov 25, 2019 |
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Nov 25, 2019 20:38
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The other catalyst there was the (false) idea that the DKR shooter was dressed up as the Joker.
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Nov 25, 2019 20:42
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Mr Interweb posted:so i finally saw Joker the other day. some thoughts. first, where on earth did the idea that this was supposed to be a movie for incels come from? the film literally has nothing at all to do with sex. if the film is directed at anything, it seems like it would be directed at our mental health system. but that being said, the movie also kind of muddles things up with people in joker masks going around destroying property and killing the rich. in this sense, the movie is frustratingly like the dark knight rises in that it doesn't seem to have a specific political agenda, and you could walk away with whatever moral you feel aligns with your ideology. Combination of boomers remembering The Dark Knight Rises for some dipshit shooting up a theatre claiming he is the Joker and people thinking the Joker is a bad role model that internet weirdos get fascinated with. I honest to god know nothing of incel culture besides them thinking the government should give them a girlfriend.
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Nov 25, 2019 20:44
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Intel&Sebastian posted:The other catalyst there was the (false) idea that the DKR shooter was dressed up as the Joker. That guy hosed though
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Nov 25, 2019 20:46
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Association with the Joker character is just the 2010s version of trenchcoats from 1999 and onward. Point out some mundane trait that a mass murderer has and then think all killers associate with that.
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Nov 25, 2019 20:49
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the joker had been a persistent meme character in right wing circles for a while basically how the right wing sections of the internet sometimes takes ownership of dated jokes the rest of the internet has grown bored with, they picked up on the joker after everyone had a few months of fun laughing at jared leto's version of the joker (mostly about how he tried to be a method actor for a cartoon character but you know) anyway these things always become in-group signifiers for the too online alt-right so they stuck around forever and "the joker" became synonymous with "right wing" in Highly Online internet spaces for a couple of years the one thing the joker move did was end this trend because alt-right subcultures seemed to take that the movie was more "antifa" than "turner diaries", and also despite the fact that the movie does try to establish some degree of sympathy for the character he's also presented as an unpleasant person who will never be happy
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Nov 25, 2019 20:50
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Alan Smithee posted:I mean if you take Jefferson then Candace is a freebie 
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Nov 25, 2019 20:50
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does Highly Online internet spaces mean bloggers and their twitter accounts
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Nov 25, 2019 20:51
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There are internet poo poo lords who do idolize the Joker. They see him as resisting feminism, as they tend to be the ones who are super into the Killing Joke and the idea he raped Barbara Gordon.
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Nov 25, 2019 20:52
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twistedmentat posted:There are internet poo poo lords who do idolize the Joker. They see him as resisting feminism, as they tend to be the ones who are super into the Killing Joke and the idea he raped Barbara Gordon. It's like the people who are crazy about Rorschach from Watchmen even when Alan Moore personally thinks he's an awful person of a character. The Watchmen TV show where people took Rorschach's journal and twisted it into a new white supremacist movement is a bit on the nose but it feels like a mockery of that.
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Nov 25, 2019 20:54
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p sure the joker and veronica meme also started as alt-right spaces mocking incels but as with any of this poo poo it's impossible to tell for sure because it's produced by people who are so thoroughly irony poisoned that they've made themselves incapable of thinking about anything with any degree of sincerity
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Nov 25, 2019 20:55
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idk that it was actually a marketing ploy, there's just too many natural, and pre-existing, little pushes all encouraging a ravenous 24 hour news machine to go ahead and say exactly that. I'm sure no one involved in the movie making a lot of money was discouraging it though. Also Todd Phillips is a dickhead who probably deserved to go through that anyway. on top of that I thought while the vast majority of the movie is about various parts of society, namely social safety nets, failing the mentally ill....it's really hard to deny that Arthurs speech at the climax of the movie isn't very reminiscent of incel rage and reddit weirdos complaints about being left behind by X. The X in Joker is more specific but you'd only need a few words changed around to have it apply to any number of "white males are actually the most oppressed in America" type of grievance. And frankly I was kind of surprised so many people gave the movie a pass on whether or not it was an "incel rage" instigator just for that moment alone. Like I think it tried hard to not be, and wasn't ever meant to be, but tripped as it crossed the finish line. Probably because Todd Phillips is not up to the task of creating a main character you're supposed to stop sympathizing with at some point, ala Taxi Driver.
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Nov 25, 2019 20:56
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Oh poo poo wrong thread
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Nov 25, 2019 20:58
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DesertIslandHermit posted:It's like the people who are crazy about Rorschach from Watchmen even when Alan Moore personally thinks he's an awful person of a character. I always felt like when it came to Rorschach and the RW Newspaper in the Watchmen comic, Alan Moore was trying to do a thought experiment where he tried to imagine a scenario where having RW views was truly counter-cultural and maybe even moral in terms of what originates and drives a superhero, if a flawed one.
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Nov 25, 2019 20:59
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DesertIslandHermit posted:It's like the people who are crazy about Rorschach from Watchmen even when Alan Moore personally thinks he's an awful person of a character. Last nights episide literally had Klansmen Kops doing the okay sign with their hands to identify themselves.
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Nov 25, 2019 21:00
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Intel&Sebastian posted:idk that it was actually a marketing ploy, there's just too many natural, and pre-existing, little pushes all encouraging a ravenous 24 hour news machine to go ahead and say exactly that. I'm sure no one involved in the movie making a lot of money was discouraging it though. Also Todd Phillips is a dickhead who probably deserved to go through that anyway. that speech is literally the director being mad about people not liking his lovely comedy and using the Joker as a stand in. Which is why it involves comedy despite the movie not really having anything to do with that CharlestheHammer has issued a correction as of 21:07 on Nov 25, 2019 |
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Nov 25, 2019 21:04
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I agree mostly, but were you in the bathroom for the scene where he comes back from killing the train guys and walks directly to Zazi Beats apartment and starts making out with her? He also keeps clippings of porn in his notebook ah that's true, i forgot about that.
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Nov 25, 2019 21:06
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twistedmentat posted:Last nights episide literally had Klansmen Kops doing the okay sign with their hands to identify themselves. Holy poo poo. I know people got mad that Rorshach got that kind of treatment but if anything, white supremacists will always try to twist the words of the dead to validate their hosed up causes. (i.e. Voltaire's “I don’t agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.', which was actually the words of a biographer and is not used by the likes of every free speech warrior).
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Nov 25, 2019 21:10
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twistedmentat posted:Last nights episide literally had Klansmen Kops doing the okay sign with their hands to identify themselves. lmfao I've been waiting until it's all out to binge but now I can't wait
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Nov 25, 2019 21:20
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I'm not sure about racist but there's definitely text in Watchmen that implies he's a homophobe and a reactionary. The reason he's also heroic is that Moore points him at a target who's actually evil and artificially limits the amount of things he actually says and does by making him almost non-verbal and indigent. He clearly approves of just about everything the Comedian was up to though.
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Nov 25, 2019 21:25
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moore says that rorschach is a bad guy with no admirable traits or whatever but he obviously didn't read his own work if he really thinks that. he's literally the only character who doesn't sell out his principles, who has the courage of his convictions, etc. he's also a person with lots of lovely ideas but that is part of what makes the watchmen a compelling piece of art, is that it reflects the nuance and complexity of human beings instead of being hamfisted didactic propaganda
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Nov 25, 2019 21:35
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:moore says that rorschach is a bad guy with no admirable traits or whatever but he obviously didn't read his own work if he really thinks that. he's literally the only character who doesn't sell out his principles, who has the courage of his convictions, etc. he's also a person with lots of lovely ideas but that is part of what makes the watchmen a compelling piece of art, is that it reflects the nuance and complexity of human beings instead of being hamfisted didactic propaganda all he got for not selling out his principles and having the courage of his convictions was being obliterated from existence as a minor nuisance
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Nov 25, 2019 21:37
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you could argue that letting himself get blown up was just him selling out but in a way that worked in his twisted mind
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Nov 25, 2019 21:39
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Sedisp posted:So they need a team of four to debate one leftists. well if you pick ben shapiro you need at least two others to wear the trenchcoat underneath him
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Nov 25, 2019 21:40
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rorschach is the repudiation of the liberal ideal of the rugged individualist who follows his own path, alone, and sticks to his principles no matter what. he didn't want to work with anyone and now he's turned into a smear on the snow
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Nov 25, 2019 21:42
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edit: /\/\/\/\/\/\  Crying and getting banned because you can't admit you were wrong is basically the highest ideal a conservative aspire to.
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Nov 25, 2019 21:43
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The other implied outcome to Rorschach never bending on his principles is that he blows up world peace even after the price has been paid in bodies to keep it going. One of the main themes to the book is whether or not "truth" is something to be upheld simply for it's own sake and the answer is often "nope".
Intel&Sebastian has issued a correction as of 21:50 on Nov 25, 2019 |
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Nov 25, 2019 21:47
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Who would have thought? A far-right activist standing athwart a neoliberal status quo that's also awful.
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Nov 25, 2019 21:50
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:moore says that rorschach is a bad guy with no admirable traits or whatever but he obviously didn't read his own work if he really thinks that. he's literally the only character who doesn't sell out his principles, who has the courage of his convictions, etc. he's also a person with lots of lovely ideas but that is part of what makes the watchmen a compelling piece of art, is that it reflects the nuance and complexity of human beings instead of being hamfisted didactic propaganda He doesn't find any of those traits personally admirable as a storyteller/wizard, but if you have read From Hell or a lot of other Alan Moore comics he often has right-wing characters as the ones who are extremely clear about their convictions and instigating huge change in the narrative by their delusional belief in that clarity. In watchmen Rorschach is a great foil for Veidt because Veidt could understand and manipulate the humanism of the liberal heros and the self-preservation of the global elite but he didn't take into account how a myopic right-wing psycho like Rorschach would rather see the whole impure world be destroyed rather than ever compromise to filth. Usually you see this sort of trait tacked onto idealist left-wing antagonists.
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Nov 25, 2019 21:50
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I'm not sure about racist but there's definitely text in Watchmen that implies he's a homophobe and a reactionary. The reason he's also heroic is that Moore points him at a target who's actually evil and artificially limits the amount of things he actually says and does by making him almost non-verbal and indigent. He clearly approves of just about everything the Comedian was up to though. I mean he's implied to be a john birch society guy and his whole shtick is based on a reactionary lust for reprisal and purity. He's just a "blackpilled" version of the right wing hero who wants to annihilate degeneracy rather than manipulate it for personal power.
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Nov 25, 2019 21:52
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Rorschach's willingness to stick to his guns even to the point of death is admirable because he'd still be a serial killer on the loose if he'd had the moral flexibility to do what was necessary to survive.
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Nov 25, 2019 21:55
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Watchmen was very good, it's a shame DC and WB have to keep that "franchise" chugging along in zombie-mode with increasingly stupid and liberal writers because they can't escape the shadow of all those brit weirdos they hired in the 80's and then hosed over.
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Nov 25, 2019 22:05
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Watchmen was very good, it's a shame DC and WB have to keep that "franchise" chugging along in zombie-mode with increasingly stupid and liberal writers because they can't escape the shadow of all those brit weirdos they hired in the 80's and then hosed over. The tv show is actually pretty good, mostly because it doesn’t really revisit anything from the comic except for having Jeremy Irons be an extremely insane, campy Veidt.
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Nov 25, 2019 22:40
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https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1199073370886852609
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Nov 25, 2019 23:28
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Andy should know to never go after a checkmark
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Nov 25, 2019 23:29
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