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Willie Tomg posted:b) a powerful gaming PC. yeah the Quest is a thing, but also: lmao, get real. quote:c) a trip to Home Depot for some of what i would sincerely consider essential supplies (you REALLY want overhead cable runnings and pulleys to keep the cords taut, and a wall mount to hang the HMD on when not in use is a good idea too). RIP your security deposit if you aren't handy with paint and plaster.
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Nov 26, 2019 14:38
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Just lol if you don't have 2 2080 Ti's running in SLI to power your Index overclocked to 240Hz
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Nov 26, 2019 15:23
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Farm Frenzy posted:all three of these games are just big rooms with enemies and weapons spawning in You're not wrong! They are however extremely good at showing off extreme levels of VR interactivity, each game nailing what they're attempting while being incredibly fun in the process. I'll be covering more games which will have more crunch to them, but I'm more excited by having the physicality present to really interact with the world than a linear story so I am baised towards playing these sorts of games.
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Nov 26, 2019 16:39
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It's cool to see VR in the equivalent NES Age, now graduating to SNES Age, and I imagine once the next gen consoles push it with package deals and cheaper prices + improved tech, it'll launch itself right into a new era of developmental ideas and experiments, especially when the development tools become more developer friendly Like VR is new as hell, these are the baby-learns-walking years
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Nov 26, 2019 17:23
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It's also encouraging how much the price is dropping. The OG Rift and Vive launched at $599 USD compared to $399 for the Rift S and Quest. If they can get a solid option PCVR option for under $300 like the PSVR is now it could change things significantly.
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Nov 26, 2019 17:39
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Black August posted:It's cool to see VR in the equivalent NES Age, now graduating to SNES Age, and I imagine once the next gen consoles push it with package deals and cheaper prices + improved tech, it'll launch itself right into a new era of developmental ideas and experiments, especially when the development tools become more developer friendly The development tools are already extremely developer friendly. I dunno, the stumbling days were 6 years ago. We're fully at the walking days now. Not running, but walking. To continue your metaphor, I agree we are in the NES era. And what that means is we already pushed through the Atari / Intellivision era. That was the stumbling around, crawling era. We're already past that. Developing VR games is pretty straightforward already, there's APIs that do all the VR specific stuff for you. How to adapt games for it is something we'll continue to learn, but again, there's rapidly becoming lots of known best practices.
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Nov 26, 2019 17:41
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Yeah, by friendly, I meant more universally-agreed on practices, standards, and streamlined tools, which I figure will see a huge push during next-gen console development. The real golden moment will be conquering the worst of motion-sick issues with default options to help any player adapt. I wonder if we’ll see the surreality that could be VR used standard and cheap enough to do stuff like hold virtual meetings or workspaces. Though being real, that’ll realistically stay in the sphere of jank-brained techbro places. The REAL weirdness on the game side will be when VR is good enough to do MMOs, virtual casinos, and other ‘old ideas brand new again’ adaptations.
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Nov 26, 2019 17:50
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Willie Tomg posted:Roomscale VR is insanely cool and solves a whole lot of issues with VR as a platform, but it requires I don't think it solves a lot of issues. Yes, playing in a 5m x 4m empty room is much nicer than in a, for example, 2m x 1.5m area, but after advancing a few steps or so in VR you will reach again a literal wall in front of you, so again you need some kind of teleporting or artificial movement system.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:17
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Roomscale was going to be The Cool VR Thing and now developing with it in mind is pretty much development suicide as you're attaching further niches into an already Incredibly niche platform. Most people don't have their rigs in giant rooms so you'll generally only see it in VR arcades.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:30
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I mean the biggest gains right now are going to be making it so there is no setup required ( ie no roomscale, instead probably focusing on finger tracking, only hand/arm related movement needed ), fully wireless, and cheaper. Once it becomes a $250 product you can just slip on and play games with it becomes mainstream. Better roomscale, walking related stuff and all that is more high end stuff that'll fizzle out, no matter how cool it is. Valve doesn't seem to be trying to push VR as a peripheral, but as a replacement. Much like the mouse was back in the day, or the GPU. An oddity that became so commonplace and so easy to use it became an essential part of a PC build. And the only way that's going to happen is with ease of use changes not bigger and better.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:32
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Rookersh posted:I mean the biggest gains right now are going to be making it so there is no setup required ( ie no roomscale, instead probably focusing on finger tracking, only hand/arm related movement needed ), fully wireless, and cheaper. I feel like you're describing the Quest here, except it's $400 and does roomscale fantastically.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:40
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Black August posted:I wonder if we’ll see the surreality that could be VR used standard and cheap enough to do stuff like hold virtual meetings or workspaces. Though being real, that’ll realistically stay in the sphere of jank-brained techbro places. This is not a question of IF, but WHEN. This WILL happen. But probably not common for another 10+ years.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:44
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Zaphod42 posted:This is not a question of IF, but WHEN. Will this mean that if I want someone to shut up in a meeting I can chokeslam their virtual self?
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Nov 26, 2019 18:50
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Zaphod42 posted:This is not a question of IF, but WHEN. US Steel's quarterly board meetings but everyone is a busty anime girl avatar.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:51
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Black August posted:I wonder if we’ll see the surreality that could be VR used standard and cheap enough to do stuff like hold virtual meetings or workspaces It's already really easy to videoconference and share your screen. How does VR help that in any way?
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Nov 26, 2019 18:53
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Polo-Rican posted:It's already really easy to videoconference and share your screen. How does VR help that in any way? VR social interactions are much closer to feeling like talking to someone in real life than they feel like doing video chat. For work stuff yeah it'd be a pain in the rear end to use right now except novelty, but in terms of the quality of the interaction that's super valuable. There's a reason why doing stuff remote sucks and you'd vastly prefer to have meetings and stuff in real life, and at some point VR will be good enough that being remote won't be that big of a problem. Being able to see someone's hand gestures, look them in the eye, see what they're pointing at, etc, all that stuff adds up and you can do a lot of that in VR today, as primitive as it is.
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Nov 26, 2019 18:57
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When I used my friend's Oculus for the first time years ago I was blown away by Rec Room and how immersive it was to see people's primitive avatars actually interacting with each other. The moment it really struck me was when I was playing tennis or racquetball or whatever and seeing my friend doing a little dance when he scored throwing a  at me. It doesn't seem like it would make that much of a difference until you experience it
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Nov 26, 2019 19:08
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One of the coolest interactions I've ever had in my entire life, not just in a game, was in VR. There is a user map for a game called Climbey that is absolutely huge - it's an epic ascent out of a giant multi-layered well. I went through the entire level with a complete stranger, and by the end of it we were pals - no deep discussions or anything, but I got to know the guy a bit. Took probably an hour and a half, two hours. What really made it amazing was that we were doing this, being just usual regular humans, all while helping each other out in this massive disgustingly hard task (you can do things like reach out your hand to grab someone if they miss a handhold, etc) in a completely unreal environment. When I finished with that map and said goodbye to my new pal, I felt like I'd really met someone, and really accomplished something. It's hard to describe if you've never done something similar, but human interactions in VR are a huge step above even video chat, and that's with the most basic possible avatar of a torso and two floating hands. Other stuff becomes more fun too - getting the drop on someone in a Battle Royale game and watching them literally, physically, jump in fright - this is something that never gets old.
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Nov 26, 2019 19:16
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The Walrus posted:It's hard to describe if you've never done something similar, but human interactions in VR are a huge step above even video chat, and that's with the most basic possible avatar of a torso and two floating hands. Yeah, this 100%. It sounds like stupid tech wanky bullshit if you haven't experienced it, but it really is substantially new and interesting. I think social things will push VR forward way more into the mainstream than any single player thing, it's extremely powerful.
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Nov 26, 2019 19:24
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I dunno if it's been solved yet but understanding whatever it is that stops you getting motion sickness when playing a FPS on a screen vs getting motion sick on VR will be a big game changer. Is it peripheral vision? Like with a monitor, because you can see the static elements of a room you don't get sick as much when your body knows or isn't moving either? I was playing ZoE 2 on PSVR and don't remember getting motion sick in that compared to Skyrim, but one of the main differences I could think of was that in ZoE I was in a cockpit with fixed objects in view.
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Nov 26, 2019 19:26
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It's a lot of things combined but the disconnect between "things I'm seeing are in motion but my body isn't moving" can be one of those factors. I don't generally get motion sick in VR but it quickly happens if I'm looking down at a screen while sitting in, say, a moving car.
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Nov 26, 2019 19:31
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It depends on a lot of things. Smooth motion and higher refresh rates help. Sitting and cockpit games tend to be easier because your brain isn't expecting the same kind of motion walking around does. Locomotion can make a huge difference also. For example, I can play H3VR for hours using armswinger locomotion with no nausea but some games that just use control stick movement make me feel terrible.
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Nov 26, 2019 19:34
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Polo-Rican posted:It's already really easy to videoconference and share your screen. How does VR help that in any way? There's a big difference in staring at a flat screen that's a live video, and being 'present' with other people in a way that mimics being in the room with them. Same way the idea of a hologram seems more appealing over perfect video screen transmission. Instead of a static camera, you have constant movement, an interactable environment, the strongest illusion of three dimensions, and a much more natural flow of speech and interaction when you don't have to look at five different screens of people in five different places. It's not a matter of ease as it is a matter of how comfortable the experience is. Plus? With VR? You can look like a total loving slob in their underpants and nobody has to know, since you have an immaculate 'Pikachu in business suit' avatar.
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Nov 26, 2019 19:35
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The Walrus posted:One of the coolest interactions I've ever had in my entire life, not just in a game, was in VR. There is a user map for a game called Climbey that is absolutely huge - it's an epic ascent out of a giant multi-layered well. I went through the entire level with a complete stranger, and by the end of it we were pals - no deep discussions or anything, but I got to know the guy a bit. Took probably an hour and a half, two hours. What really made it amazing was that we were doing this, being just usual regular humans, all while helping each other out in this massive disgustingly hard task (you can do things like reach out your hand to grab someone if they miss a handhold, etc) in a completely unreal environment. I've said it before, but I really think something about being in VR puts you in an inherently different mindset than playing normal flatscreen online games. They seem inherently less aggressive to me, because you feel both more vulnerable and exposed but also more connected to this other person who is an actual person. Its so easy to be a huge toxic rear end in a top hat in most online games, I never turn on voice chat with random people, I just discord with my friends and otherwise I don't want to talk to people because its more often than not a terrible experience. But in the way games like Dark Souls only lets you communicate through gestures, being in VR and feeling other people in the space around you and waving at them and standing near them, it just feels more real, and I think that helps make people empathize with each other. Black August posted:since you have an immaculate 'Pikachu in business suit' avatar.  Oh my god you're right. I didn't consider the ramifications. I thought millennials taking over the workforce and emojis popping up in work conversations was weird already, I'm not prepared for this!
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Nov 26, 2019 19:35
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Imagine Steel Battalion, but the massive expensive controller is just there virtually for you. poo poo, imagine VR Metroid. Now you can play Samus the way she really is, hyperactively murder-nervous of every scuttle and sound in the dark caves a hundred miles below the surface, which turns into constantly blasting every single thing that moves out of the corner of your visor. Plus the experience of shooting and tearing a Metroid off of your face. Well done VR stealth games are going to be really something else.
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Nov 26, 2019 19:39
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I, personally, cannot wait for VR Deus Ex. Imagine the thrill of hiding in air ducts as you eat sandwiches and listen to mercenary banter while planning your next attack!
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Nov 26, 2019 20:07
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Some sort of force-feedback glove system would really be needed for any sort of virtual in-game control scheme to sort of help replicate a sense of touch.
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Nov 26, 2019 20:07
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chaosapiant posted:I, personally, cannot wait for VR Deus Ex. Imagine the thrill of hiding in air ducts as you eat sandwiches and listen to mercenary banter while planning your next attack! One of my favourite gifs from early VR was a dude doing basically this. He was crawling on the floor irl through an air duct in vr, and then went to lean down into the room he was looking into in the headset and bumped his head on the floor hahaha.
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Nov 26, 2019 20:17
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Yeah I was just thinking that Seems as simple as ‘glove applies pressure or vibrates when touching corresponding ‘object’ but in reality that’s probably going to be an expensive nightmare that won’t work for another decade
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Nov 26, 2019 20:24
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There's some systems that replicate the tactile experience with actual physical objects. It's something like a VR escape room or laser tag place or what ever, but you go through it while wearing a VR system. But there's actual plywood walls in real life that match up perfectly with the VR walls so when you reach out and touch something you actually feel it. When you open a door there's a real door there to feel and pull and it has sensors on it so the real life door's angle matches in VR. They even had things like cold gusts of air blow on you to match what you were seeing in VR.
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Nov 26, 2019 20:30
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Baronjutter posted:There's some systems that replicate the tactile experience with actual physical objects. It's something like a VR escape room or laser tag place or what ever, but you go through it while wearing a VR system. But there's actual plywood walls in real life that match up perfectly with the VR walls so when you reach out and touch something you actually feel it. When you open a door there's a real door there to feel and pull and it has sensors on it so the real life door's angle matches in VR. They even had things like cold gusts of air blow on you to match what you were seeing in VR. https://www.thevoid.com/ Check that place out. True VR
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Nov 26, 2019 20:33
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Baronjutter posted:Some sort of force-feedback glove system would really be needed for any sort of virtual in-game control scheme to sort of help replicate a sense of touch. You can actually do a ton with good rumble already today. Your brain will do a lot of work filling in the gaps, it's obviously not as good as what you'd be talking about there, but the current hardware is more capable than it seems like it should be. Combining good haptics with good game design fuzzes enough that your brain is super willing to believe the illusion.
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Nov 26, 2019 20:47
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The Walrus posted:When I finished with that map and said goodbye to my new pal, I felt like I'd really met someone, and really accomplished something. It's hard to describe if you've never done something similar, but human interactions in VR are a huge step above even video chat, and that's with the most basic possible avatar of a torso and two floating hands. I feel exactly the same way. It’s why VR Poker is a lot closer to sitting down at a casino than it is to online poker. And Echo Arena feels more like a real “sport” than a multiplayer video game.
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Nov 26, 2019 22:09
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Black August posted:Imagine Steel Battalion, but the massive expensive controller is just there virtually for you. You should take a look at Vox Machinae, its a mech combat game that controls exactly like this. pull down a targeting screen for long distance, pick up the cb radio mic to talk to your teamates, virtual HOTAS, the works. Its really well done but the same is its only a multiplayer game. It would have been amazing if they at least put in a single player campaign, such a shame as the controls are really amazing.
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Nov 26, 2019 22:24
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I've maybe never thought about it but is there also something that's still to be done about what you focus on in VR? Like, right now while I focus on writing this on my phone I have to make myself consciously aware that everything else around me is still there at the edge of my vision. IIRC when I'm in a VR game I'm pretty sure everything's in focus and there isn't that degree of dynamic depth perception you have in real life yet. Or is there?
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Nov 26, 2019 22:47
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No everything in any consumer VR headset you've used is at a fixed focal plane, and will be until one of multifocal displays (which have a small number of focal planes), variable focal displays (which have a small number of focal planes than can change their perceived focal depth), or lightfields (~~LIGHTFIELDS~~) enter the consumer space which is not for a long time. Unless you count crap like magic leap, which you should not count. The mismatch between the focal depth (that each of your eyes adapts to) and the stereo depth (that your eyes point to together, and does work in VR) is the "vergence accomodation mismatch" that makes your eyeballs hurt and you feel a bit queasy (though most queasiness is vestibular mismatch), and especially contributes to lasting sense of blurred vision after leaving VR. It's also the main reason (among a few) that vision researchers currently don't recommend putting young children in VR.
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Nov 26, 2019 22:54
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Kin posted:I've maybe never thought about it but is there also something that's still to be done about what you focus on in VR? I don't know what this means. In VR you just look at stuff. And that's what you focus on. For as wide as your FOV is, everything else still exists in the background, just like real life. The only difference is that VR has smaller FOV than normal real-world eye balls.
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Nov 26, 2019 22:55
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Kin posted:I've maybe never thought about it but is there also something that's still to be done about what you focus on in VR? Yeah, there's research being done here. This post outlines some of what Oculus is working on: https://www.oculus.com/blog/half-dome-updates-frl-explores-more-comfortable-compact-vr-prototypes-for-work/?locale=en_US This is usually referred to as being a varifocal display. It'll need to be paired with eye tracking for it to really work well
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Nov 26, 2019 22:55
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chaosapiant posted:I don't know what this means. In VR you just look at stuff. And that's what you focus on. For as wide as your FOV is, everything else still exists in the background, just like real life. The only difference is that VR has smaller FOV than normal real-world eye balls. Breakfast all day explained it well. Your eyes do focus on things in VR, like when I race if I look far ahead, the antenna close to me on the car appears doubled, like if you put your hand in front of your face. But if I look at the antenna, then my eyes refocus and I see a single 3d antenna very close to me. However, this feels slightly off. I've noticed it and breakfast's explanation makes perfect sense.
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Nov 26, 2019 23:03
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Makes sense. I've only ever played Elite and NMS in VR really and in those it's pretty simple. I look at things and there they are and I don't think about it beyond that.
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Nov 26, 2019 23:08
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