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Weatherman posted:The funny thing is how some of these examples are weird edge cases that depend on a heaping spoon of "the left are splitters" or a bowl of "people will always vote for their favourite clique even if they want the current people in charge to remain in charge". In all cases, the party that gets in will be the one that the majority of people can accept. A compromise candidate, if you will. But that's not what IRV does or even purports to do
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Nov 26, 2019 03:13
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I'm not really sure why we should care that our voting system doesn't have monotonicity really, especially when the current system is not only non-monotonic itself but also elects the candidate most hated by the majority of the electorate constantly But I guess since a perfect voting system is mathematically provably impossible it's the perfect grounds for nerds to pick an arbitrary feature they don't like so they can argue with each other forever about how no system is good enough VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Nov 26, 2019 |
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Nov 26, 2019 03:45
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QuarkJets posted:But that's not what IRV does or even purports to do Remind me what your scenario is that leads to a right-wing win because of left-wing vote splitting?
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Nov 26, 2019 03:57
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Somfin posted:The idea that there's more people voting hard left than there will be people voting soft left is pretty hilarious to me 1 fash 1 centrist 3 infighting-lefts was just the simplest case that demonstrates the math of the problem. you could envision scenarios like: party 1 - fascist party 2 - center-left party 3 - weed legalization party party 4 - greens party 5 - pirate party where the center-left getting knocked out first could get the fash in because first choice voters for parties 3-5 are non-homogeneous in their second choices and rank some of the other single-issue parties lower than the fash. like you say tho it's a deeply unlikely situation given most party configurations
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Nov 26, 2019 03:59
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Somfin posted:Remind me what your scenario is that leads to a right-wing win because of left-wing vote splitting? Sorry but I gave up on reexplaining the point that someone else was trying to make, since it's apparent that you were just skimming posts anyway (that or your reading comprehension is extremely poor)
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Nov 26, 2019 05:14
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Jazerus posted:1 fash 1 centrist 3 infighting-lefts was just the simplest case that demonstrates the math of the problem. you could envision scenarios like: Since you can't rank your choices in approval voting, the fash would all vote for the fash party, and the single issue voters who prefer the center,-left and fash (in that order) but hate the other single issue parties would all vote for their preferred choice and the center-left and the fash, the fash would get one vote from everyone and would win in a landslide. So it's hard to say IRV gave the 'wrong' result here when the winner really does have the most support. It seems bad because we don't like the winner and we don't like that they have the most support, but if you reverse the party names those same people would be fine with it.
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Nov 26, 2019 05:29
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I think the most important question is, how can we implement IRV for the electoral college voters?
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Nov 26, 2019 06:11
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Why would you? Just abolish the stupid electoral college and go with a nationwide popular vote total.
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Nov 26, 2019 09:22
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quote:Right now teen girls are very much sequestered away in high school, during the years where they are most horny. Could we combine high school, or perhaps the last two years of high school, with college, in order to expose teen girls to large numbers of guys in 18-22 range, where men are most attractive to girls. love us some thinking persons' discourse the rest of the post, and the replies, are actually worse
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Nov 26, 2019 09:50
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QuarkJets posted:Sorry but I gave up on reexplaining the point that someone else was trying to make, since it's apparent that you were just skimming posts anyway (that or your reading comprehension is extremely poor) Yeesh, looks like I did skip a few there; last-read error, from the looks of things. My bad.
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Nov 26, 2019 09:55
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That's a lot of words to say "I'm barred from going within 100ft of a school and I'm not happy about it"
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Nov 26, 2019 10:03
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OwlFancier posted:That's a lot of words to say "I'm barred from going within 100ft of a school and I'm not happy about it" Libertarism summed up.
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Nov 26, 2019 14:06
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divabot posted:love us some thinking persons' discourse .... Jesus tapdancing Christ.  Also, what the actual hell is so difficult to comprehend about the concept of "women might enjoy loving, but they don't necessarily want to be some dude's broodmare" for some of these assholes? Women aren't an alien species, for gods' sakes.
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Nov 26, 2019 14:53
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Weatherman posted:Why would you? Just abolish the stupid electoral college and go with a nationwide popular vote total. No, no, that's no fun. We need to implement IRV for how we choose electoral college members, and then THEY also use IRV to determine the president!
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Nov 26, 2019 15:00
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TLM3101 posted:Women aren't an alien species, for gods' sakes. TLM3101, you would be amazed at the degree to which people don't understand this. Some folks' theory of mind goes out the window the second you start referring to someone by female pronouns.
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Nov 26, 2019 20:38
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The Venn diagram of dudes who think that girls experience peak horniness during high school and dudes who have to pay money for sex is basically a circle.
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Nov 26, 2019 21:25
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divabot posted:love us some thinking persons' discourse lol that they've taken on the motte and bailey thing as an identity. It feels like the "conservatives are smart actually" cultural moment has really passed, maybe just because it's harder to sell that angry blue-haired women are actually the existential threat anymore.
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Nov 26, 2019 22:33
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Sax Solo posted:lol that they've taken on the motte and bailey thing as an identity. It feels like the "conservatives are smart actually" cultural moment has really passed, maybe just because it's harder to sell that angry blue-haired women are actually the existential threat anymore. I think that the increasing popularity and obviousness of how easy it is to dunk on conservative ideas means that a lot more people are being exposed to said dunks
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Nov 26, 2019 22:49
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Sax Solo posted:lol that they've taken on the motte and bailey thing as an identity. It feels like the "conservatives are smart actually" cultural moment has really passed, maybe just because it's harder to sell that angry blue-haired women are actually the existential threat anymore. TheMotte is the wholeheartedly fascist wing of the rationalist/IDW subculture. Emil Kirkegaard posts there.
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Nov 27, 2019 00:15
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divabot posted:love us some thinking persons' discourse
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Nov 27, 2019 02:54
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QuarkJets posted:The Venn diagram of dudes who think that girls experience peak horniness during high school and dudes who have to pay money for sex is basically a circle. And just like that, we're back to talking about qalnor again.
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Nov 27, 2019 02:56
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Captain_Maclaine posted:And just like that, we're back to talking about qalnor again. And on that subject, I'm not sure whether to curse you or thank you for linking me that ... thing. It's... something.
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Nov 27, 2019 04:04
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divabot posted:love us some thinking persons' discourse Wow I saw your quote and was all "At least they're just getting creepy and horny about legal consenting adults!" I opened the link and quote:If girls were encouraged to take a gap year at 16 or 17 and have a child, that would make a very large difference to birthrates.  Is this thread a gauntlet for seeing how long it takes for getting libertarians to logoff or get banned for illegal stuff? I'm not a libertarian and no one else in the thread seems to be. Do they just exist in other parts of the forum where they can be racist and groomy?
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Nov 27, 2019 04:44
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The invisible hand of the free market alas has decided that libertarians are wastemen and so the thread is homesteaded mostly by people dunking on them.
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Nov 27, 2019 04:50
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TLM3101 posted:And on that subject, I'm not sure whether to curse you or thank you for linking me that ... thing. It's... something. I have seen such things, such amazing things. *Turns to reveal gaping bloody sockets where I have clearly clawed my own eyes out*
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Nov 27, 2019 06:09
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That Reddit thread is longer than you think, dad! Longer than you think!!
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Nov 27, 2019 06:27
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Captain_Maclaine posted:I have seen such things, such amazing things. VitalSigns posted:That Reddit thread is longer than you think, dad! Longer than you think!! Oh my god, you're right. I... I shouldn't have looked. 
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Nov 27, 2019 06:49
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Armadillo Tank posted:I'm not a libertarian and no one else in the thread seems to be. Do they just exist in other parts of the forum where they can be racist and groomy? We get live ones from time to time. JRod is currently on a hiatus after too many people asked (among other things) why Ron Paul was fine signing his name to incredibly racist newsletters. This is despite him insisting that he doesn't think Ron Paul can be racist because he's a good person and good people can't be racist because "racist" is just a word that people like him use to call someone a bad person.
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Nov 27, 2019 10:52
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Jrod had to take a break after admitting that child porn was bad.
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Nov 27, 2019 13:13
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I thought it was for sharing a "stopping the Holocaust was wrong" article
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Nov 27, 2019 14:31
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Goon Danton posted:I thought it was for sharing a "stopping the Holocaust was wrong" article Alhazred posted:Jrod had to take a break after admitting that child porn was bad. Little bit of both, I figure. Somfin posted:We get live ones from time to time. JRod is currently on a hiatus after too many people asked (among other things) why Ron Paul was fine signing his name to incredibly racist newsletters. This is despite him insisting that he doesn't think Ron Paul can be racist because he's a good person and good people can't be racist because "racist" is just a word that people like him use to call someone a bad person. And we didn't even get to bring up that time Jrod argued that black people would often be better served by not graduating high school and instead becoming manual laborers/apprentices in their mid teens.
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Nov 27, 2019 15:10
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Can't believe we didn't think to ask of Jrod's opinion on phrenology. Who are we kidding, it's 95% certain he owns calipers.
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Nov 27, 2019 18:15
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How else would he have been proven to be so handsome, like a prince?
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Nov 27, 2019 20:52
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A prince that will kick your rear end Disagreeing with libertarianism is a violation of the NAP
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Nov 27, 2019 21:38
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At least we know which prince he's like now. Andrew.
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Nov 27, 2019 21:39
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QuarkJets posted:A prince that will kick your rear end Unless youre a woman. Jrod is
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Nov 27, 2019 21:42
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How do libertarians deal with enclosure? Like in libertarian country there is a specific house or town some one doesn't like, and they just buy up a strip of land all around it and then charge an unplayable toll to cross over?
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Nov 27, 2019 22:39
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ianmacdo posted:How do libertarians deal with enclosure? Like in libertarian country there is a specific house or town some one doesn't like, and they just buy up a strip of land all around it and then charge an unplayable toll to cross over? This would violate the NAP, so they'd use a McNuke in self defense.
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Nov 27, 2019 23:04
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ianmacdo posted:How do libertarians deal with enclosure? Like in libertarian country there is a specific house or town some one doesn't like, and they just buy up a strip of land all around it and then charge an unplayable toll to cross over? You're not thinking big enough. You don't need to not like someone to do that. Your goal is to find an entire city and enclose it, then charge the tolls. Also for some reason lolbertarians always think they're the ones who'll be charging the tolls, not the ones getting fisted by them.
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Nov 27, 2019 23:04
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ianmacdo posted:How do libertarians deal with enclosure? Like in libertarian country there is a specific house or town some one doesn't like, and they just buy up a strip of land all around it and then charge an unplayable toll to cross over?
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Nov 27, 2019 23:07
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