Who watches the Watchmen? thread

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Who watches the Watchmen? thread

Colonel Whitey: May 22, 2004; This shit's about to go off.

Nieuw Amsterdam posted:

This is WATCHMEN, not Marvel�s Avengers movies. Veidt is a villain. He is a sociopath. He kills those fully sentient clones to make LETTERS. Laurie had the right idea shooting his rear end.

It occurs to me that it would be great if the next few episodes draw parallels between Veidt and MCU Tony Stark

# ? Nov 27, 2019 19:32

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# ? May 31, 2024 15:30

MaoistBanker: Sep 11, 2001; For Sound Financial Pranning!

I'm going to put up $10 now that says that bronzed statue of Veidt in Trieu's garden IS Veidt, since we've know pretty well established that his timeline is separate, began in 2012, and is rapidly catching up with the Tulsa timeline.

She even said "That IS Adrian Veidt".

# ? Nov 27, 2019 19:39

Bushido Brown: Mar 30, 2011

SpiderHyphenMan posted:

Veidt strikes me as the type to think he's Too Smart For Racism and that he doesn't associate with such groups in any direct capacity.

Veidt: As I said, it all depends on us whether we individually want Armageddon or a new world of fabulous limitless potential. That's not such an obvious question as it seems. I believe there are some people who really do want if only subconsciously an the end to the world. They want to be spared the responsibility of maintaining that world, to be spared the effort of imagination needed to realize that the future. And of course, there are other people who want very much to live. I see twentieth century society as a sort of race between enlightenment and extinction. In one lane you have the four horsemen of the apocalypse...

Nova: ...and in the other?

Veidt: The Seventh Cavalry.

# ? Nov 27, 2019 19:40

SpiderHyphenMan: Apr 1, 2010; by Fluffdaddy

Bushido Brown posted:

Veidt: As I said, it all depends on us whether we individually want Armageddon or a new world of fabulous limitless potential. That's not such an obvious question as it seems. I believe there are some people who really do want if only subconsciously an the end to the world. They want to be spared the responsibility of maintaining that world, to be spared the effort of imagination needed to realize that the future. And of course, there are other people who want very much to live. I see twentieth century society as a sort of race between enlightenment and extinction. In one lane you have the four horsemen of the apocalypse...

Nova: ...and in the other?

Veidt: The Seventh Cavalry.

...holy gently caress.

# ? Nov 27, 2019 19:44

Bushido Brown: Mar 30, 2011

Or, maybe I'm exactly backwards. Folks have pointed out parts of this before, but they're really leaning on The Odyssey.

The Four Letters Peteypedia entry closes with a direct quote ("we are achaians ..."). That line is directed to Polyphemos, the Cyclops.

Later, after the encounter, the Cyclops prays to Poseidon, who forces Odysseus to wander the sea for ten years...

I'm also struck thinking about Circe turning people into pigs, given the preview for the next episode.

I'm not sure what this means for the overall arc. There's definitely some pull to view Veidt as wily Odysseus- his arc will be a homecoming.

Are the 7K his enemies (and indeed, did they (the Cyclops) dupe him? With the added irony that Veidt himself was seeking to end the world in the quote above?

It probably won't line up cleanly. But I'm sure we have not seen the last Odyssey reference.

# ? Nov 27, 2019 19:54

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Bushido Brown posted:

Or, maybe I'm exactly backwards. Folks have pointed out parts of this before, but they're really leaning on The Odyssey.

The Four Letters Peteypedia entry closes with a direct quote ("we are achaians ..."). That line is directed to Polyphemos, the Cyclops.

Later, after the encounter, the Cyclops prays to Poseidon, who forces Odysseus to wander the sea for ten years...

I'm also struck thinking about Circe turning people into pigs, given the preview for the next episode.

I'm not sure what this means for the overall arc. There's definitely some pull to view Veidt as wily Odysseus- his arc will be a homecoming.

Are the 7K his enemies (and indeed, did they (the Cyclops) dupe him? With the added irony that Veidt himself was seeking to end the world in the quote above?

It probably won't line up cleanly. But I'm sure we have not seen the last Odyssey reference.

Tim Blake Nelson is a pretty big Odyssey reference by himself.

# ? Nov 27, 2019 19:59

MaoistBanker: Sep 11, 2001; For Sound Financial Pranning!

Sorry for the giant wall of text, but the flashlight being used on both Judd AND Angela has got this guy thinking on Reddit, and it's pretty good. It's a theory, so I won't spoiler it but beforewarned:

quote:

Angela Abar hasn't been acting of her own free will. And she hasn�t been since the end of the first episode when Will hit her with that light.

He hasn�t just been pointing her in the direction of the breadcrumbs he wants her to follow�every major decision she�s made has been the direct result of instructions he gave her that night when she first arrived at the tree.

She didn�t just intuit that his comment about Judd having �skeletons in his closet� was meant as a hint for her�he explicitly told her to get herself into that room alone and go looking for exactly what he wanted her to find.

When she leaves him handcuffed in the kitchen, only to later return and find that he�s been inexplicably set free, his comment about �friends in high places� isn�t about some mysterious, reclusive and powerful benefactor. But he certainly knows someone relatively high up on the local police force�someone who was more than happy to uncuff him so that he could come and go as he pleases. And she was even kind enough to wheel him out to the car in time for his scheduled pickup.

Will tells her that he�s there to show her where she came from, and he meant that literally. When Lady Trieu refers to the Nostalgia pills as exposition, and he tells her that Angela will never listen to him, they�re not talking about some elaborate scheme where the pills are meant to serve as the catalyst that sparks Angela�s curiosity, drives her investigation, and compels her to dive head-first into the particular rabbit hole Will wants her to dig into in order to get to work unraveling the mysteries she finds there.

The truth is a lot more simple�Will told her to take the pills, because his intention was always for her to go through everything she went through in Episode 6, so she could learn experientially about her heritage, about the legacy that she has inherited from her grandfather.

This explains why Will mentions to Lady Trieu that he doesn�t expect Angela will ever forgive him. Regardless of whatever part he has yet to play in what is almost certainly an impending mass-scale atrocity ready to reshape the world the moment the clock is finally activated, what he�s actually talking about here is the fact that we humans have a tendency to despise and revile those among our elders who visit their own trauma upon we their children (and grandchildren). Will has not only done this exact thing to his own granddaughter, but he did so willfully and deliberately, which is about as unconscionable and unforgivable as 11/2.

It also explains why Angela was able to survive an experience that, by all accounts, should have left her in a vegitative state or comatose at best. It�s not because somebody at the precinct happened to suddenly decide it might be a good idea to try reaching out to Lady Trieu of all people, who in turn just happened to have the necessary medical equipment on hand to reverse the effects of Angela�s Nostalgia overdose�it was always part of the plan for Trieu to be on call and ready to step in should Angela find herself in such a position after taking the pills.

What I don�t know yet is why Angela�s so important to whatever Trieu�s grand design truly entails, although I definitely have my suspicions�whatever the plan is, I think we all have a strong sense of foreboding, of this looming, impending dread that things are going to end very, very badly, and I think whatever chaos is about to unfold is designed specifically so that the global status quo can once again be upended, the pecking order on the international totem pole restructured in such a way that is meant to undo the injustices committed in the name of American imperialism.

If that�s the case, then I can definitely see why Will and Lady Trieu would be working together towards this end. He�s a person of color who has lived through (and taken openly hostile action against) some of the worst horrors and most egregious injustices visited upon minority communities in America throughout the 20th Century, while she�s likely experienced the exact same kinds of egregious abuses and systemic injustices growing up in a region of Southeast Asia which had been a sovereign nation right up until the Cold War brought in the Americans�who began relentlessly burning down village after village after village, torturing and raping as they saw fit, and instantly vaporizing literally everyone who stood in their way with their giant blue neon tower of death, all for the express purpose of seizing control entirely and granting statehood in the interest of establishing a foothold of strategic importance in the region.

And I think Angela is so important because she carries within her two distinct sorts of massive hereditary/genetic/cultural trauma�that of the black American experience, as well as that of the peoples overseas subjugated by the invading forces of the United States.

How this factors in, I have no idea�but if I were to guess, I�d say that given so many parallels between Trieu and Veidt, the plan probably involves something similar to the tragic events that unfolded in Manhattan one fateful mid-autumn night in 1985.

Much the same way that Veidt�s monstrosity was constructed for its particular purpose�saturated with the most horrific experiences that the most gifted creative minds on the planet could ever imagine, and engineered to flood each and every single human brain in the psychic blast radius with those horrific experiences upon the event of its own death�I believe that Angela is potentially being primed as a sort of vessel that will eventually be instrumental in somehow projecting all of this trauma she carries directly into the minds of everyone within range of that enormous antenna being built right there just outside of Tulsa.

I don�t know if I�m ready to start speculating on whether this is intended to

A.) force a kind of empathy that forges an unbreakable bond among these people, through a mass-scale shared trauma experienced by everyone simultaneously

or

B.) activate a violent revolution within the United States designed to weaponize the masses in a way which ensures that the nation�s streets will run bright red with the blood of the powerful and wealthy elite who allow these systemic injustices and horrifying abuses to perpetuate indefinitely because of how they personally benefit from it.

But I feel like I already kinda know which one I�m leaning towards.

# ? Nov 27, 2019 20:00

KoRMaK: Jul 31, 2012

I read a couple paragraphs of that and most of it is like... Duh. The pills were intended for Angela the whole time.

The flash light didn't hynpnotize her though, it wasn't strobing

# ? Nov 27, 2019 20:08

Bushido Brown: Mar 30, 2011

KoRMaK posted:

I read a couple paragraphs of that and most of it is like... Duh. The pills were intended for Angela the whole time.

The flash light didn't hynpnotize her though, it wasn't strobing

Agreed on both counts.

# ? Nov 27, 2019 20:10

TontoCorazon: Aug 18, 2007

KoRMaK posted:

I read a couple paragraphs of that and most of it is like... Duh. The pills were intended for Angela the whole time.

The flash light didn't hynpnotize her though, it wasn't strobing

Lady Trieu said as much on the first scene we see her with Will.

# ? Nov 27, 2019 20:13

TontoCorazon: Aug 18, 2007

This article from Polygon is really great, if it hasn't been posted:
https://www.polygon.com/tv/2019/11/27/20984352/watchmen-superman-lone-ranger-african-american-history

Also I can't stop thinking about this episode, poo poo was way too good.

# ? Nov 27, 2019 23:53

Kodo: Jul 20, 2003; THIS IS HOW YOUR CANDIDATE EATS CINNAMON ROLLS, KODO

https://twitter.com/DavidNeiwert/status/1199779549803794432?s=19

A giant thread on the history of the Red Summer of 1919, the ethnic cleansing of African Americans that led up to the Tulsa massacre. The one thing I will say about this episode that rings untrue is the cops left HJ alive - had this happened in real life, they would've hung him, stuffed his genitals down his throat, and then burnt him while he were still hanging. No way would they have left him alive.

# ? Nov 28, 2019 00:01

SpiderHyphenMan: Apr 1, 2010; by Fluffdaddy

Kodo posted:

https://twitter.com/DavidNeiwert/status/1199779549803794432?s=19

A giant thread on the history of the Red Summer of 1919, the ethnic cleansing of African Americans that led up to the Tulsa massacre. The one thing I will say about this episode that rings untrue is the cops left HJ alive - had this happened in real life, they would've hung him, stuffed his genitals down his throat, and then burnt him while he were still hanging. No way would they have left him alive.

Killing a cop, any cop, is bad PR. Recall that the exact same people who hang him pretend to be on his side when they're in "public."
Though they probably could have just hanged him and called it a suicide.

# ? Nov 28, 2019 00:17

tin can made man: Apr 13, 2005; why don't you ask him
about his penis

Kodo posted:

https://twitter.com/DavidNeiwert/status/1199779549803794432?s=19

A giant thread on the history of the Red Summer of 1919, the ethnic cleansing of African Americans that led up to the Tulsa massacre. The one thing I will say about this episode that rings untrue is the cops left HJ alive - had this happened in real life, they would've hung him, stuffed his genitals down his throat, and then burnt him while he were still hanging. No way would they have left him alive.

gently caress

gently caress

# ? Nov 28, 2019 00:41

mrbotus: Apr 7, 2009; Patron of the Pants

A lot of people dont understand that the hanging part in a lynching is just the end. Victims were often tortured through mutilation and burning before finally being killed.

# ? Nov 28, 2019 02:35

Kill All Cops: Apr 11, 2007; Pacheco de Chocobo; Hell Gem

Kodo posted:

https://twitter.com/DavidNeiwert/status/1199779549803794432?s=19

A giant thread on the history of the Red Summer of 1919, the ethnic cleansing of African Americans that led up to the Tulsa massacre. The one thing I will say about this episode that rings untrue is the cops left HJ alive - had this happened in real life, they would've hung him, stuffed his genitals down his throat, and then burnt him while he were still hanging. No way would they have left him alive.

finished reading 150 posts of this twitter thread

it's really informative

# ? Nov 28, 2019 03:06

Rookoo: Jul 24, 2007

Was reading a book on Reagan and the 80's, and lol:

# ? Nov 28, 2019 03:32

KoRMaK: Jul 31, 2012

Vol 2 https://nin.lnk.to/Watchmen2

Im deffo learning TRUST IN THE LAW on piano

incredible that it is an original, same with the way it used to be. i thought those were actual old songs written in their era... didnt realize to the extent that trent and ross are doing all the sound design. are they mic-ing the actors and doing ADR too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLL23l79KU

# ? Nov 28, 2019 03:37

KoRMaK: Jul 31, 2012

reveal yourself!

# ? Nov 28, 2019 03:39

wet_goods: Jun 21, 2004; I'M BAAD!

Xanderkish posted:

Also one thing I'm noticing about the original is how Moore intended it partly as an anti-Reaganism work, and at the same time Nixon is portrayed...in kind of muted ways? He obviously won a third term, but the sequences showing him in the war room etc portray him as fairly competent and intelligent. Don't know what, if anything, to make of that.

I mean Nixon was cunning, Reagan was a sundowning buffoon in comparison of mental capacity

# ? Nov 28, 2019 03:43

withak: Jan 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

Rookoo posted:

Was reading a book on Reagan and the 80's, and lol:

If you like reading about all the times that Reagan publicly forgot the difference between movies and reality then google "The Clothes Have No Emperor."

edit: Unless this from there, in which case disregard.

# ? Nov 28, 2019 04:02

Rookoo: Jul 24, 2007

It's an excerpt from that very book lol. Mainly found it funny that ozymandias seems to have nicked the idea when watchmen came out like a year later.

# ? Nov 28, 2019 04:04

KoRMaK: Jul 31, 2012

It was also a minor detail in Fargo S2

which was the best one

# ? Nov 28, 2019 04:10

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

KoRMaK posted:

It was also a minor detail in Fargo S2

which was the best one

Chiming in because you've triggered my "good opinion" sense.

Yes. It was.

# ? Nov 28, 2019 05:28

lurker2006: Jul 30, 2019

Bushido Brown posted:

I still think Veidt will end up being KKK/7K involved.

If Veidt ever ended up showing those colors it'd be in the form of a paternalistic, white savior sort of thing, not the KKK variety.

# ? Nov 28, 2019 05:42

Milo and POTUS: Sep 3, 2017; I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?

wet_goods posted:

I mean Nixon was cunning, Reagan was a sundowning buffoon in comparison of mental capacity

He really was a trendsetter

# ? Nov 28, 2019 06:44

Box of Bunnies: Apr 3, 2012; by Pragmatica

Herostratus posted:

Batman doesn't kill, though.

Batman's also a billionaire white dude, rather than a black man living in Jim Crow America

# ? Nov 28, 2019 07:24

Skitz: Apr 11, 2003; Your mommy kills animals! I bet you didn't know that.

withak posted:

If you like reading about all the times that Reagan publicly forgot the difference between movies and reality then google "The Clothes Have No Emperor."

edit: Unless this from there, in which case disregard.

Also great Reagan stuff: The Dollop episode 400 (It's a two-parter but I only linked the first one). One of the funniest, most enjoyable, most :wtf:

podcast eps I've ever heard.

# ? Nov 28, 2019 08:19

Ugly In The Morning: Jul 1, 2010; Pillbug

wet_goods posted:

I mean Nixon was cunning, Reagan was a sundowning buffoon in comparison of mental capacity

Nixon was a shitheel but he at least wanted single-payer healthcare and started the EPA. I�m pretty sure Reagan didn�t know where he was half the time.

# ? Nov 28, 2019 15:49

Sleeveless: Dec 25, 2014; by Pragmatica

Skitz posted:

Also great Reagan stuff: The Dollop episode 400 (It's a two-parter but I only linked the first one). One of the funniest, most enjoyable, most podcast eps I've ever heard.

The Dollop are rampant plagiarists, instead of patronizing two unfunny dudes who read other peoples content word-for-word and yell over it just read the poo poo directly.

https://twitter.com/josh_levin/status/1165614548289753090

https://twitter.com/josh_levin/status/1165614564735619073

# ? Nov 28, 2019 18:14

Unkempt: May 24, 2003; ...perfect spiral, scientists are still figuring it out...

Moore knew about the reagan/gorbachev aliens thing. From 1988:

# ? Nov 28, 2019 23:28

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

fancy stats posted:

Is there any evidence outside of the fact that he was personable (plenty of racists are friendly, and you can think individuals are fine people and not the whole) to assume that Judd was good? He kept his grandfather's robes for a reason. I don't see any reason to believe that he wasn't consciously using the threat of white supremacy to justify enacting fascist policy.

He indignantly tells Will that he was trying to keep �you people� safe, which is a seriously mixed message that doesn�t square at all with how he treats any of his black friends or colleagues. Even if he thinks he�s protecting black people in some way, he has some evil ideas that he tried to hide from others.

# ? Nov 29, 2019 02:27

SardonicTyrant: Feb 26, 2016; BTICH IM A NEWT
熱くなれ夢みた明日を
必ずいつかつかまえる
走り出せ振り向くことなく
&

I hope they never explain the lube man.

# ? Nov 29, 2019 02:50

wet_goods: Jun 21, 2004; I'M BAAD!

SardonicTyrant posted:

I hope they never explain the lube man.

# ? Nov 29, 2019 02:58

TheOmegaWalrus: Feb 3, 2007; by Hand Knit

Lube Man is so obviously Petey it's borderline sloppy.

How else is a man supposed to have functional intercourse with a woman in her 70s?

Do you need it spelled out for you?

# ? Nov 29, 2019 03:41

Toxic Fart Syndrome: Jul 2, 2006; *hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.

_{...the meter only goes to 3.6...}; Pork Pro

TheOmegaWalrus posted:

Lube Man is so obviously Petey it's borderline sloppy.

How else is a man supposed to have functional intercourse with a woman in her 70s?

Do you need it spelled out for you?

# ? Nov 29, 2019 03:53

Milo and POTUS: Sep 3, 2017; I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?

Turns out the silver squirter's actually been in over half the episodes thus far

# ? Nov 29, 2019 04:24

Nail Rat: Dec 29, 2000; You maniacs! You blew it up! God damn you! God damn you all to hell!!

SardonicTyrant posted:

I hope they never explain the lube man.

Same. It's clearly Petey but to just never acknowledge it again would be perfect.

It would be Watchmen's Mike Yanagita.

# ? Nov 29, 2019 06:09

Skitz: Apr 11, 2003; Your mommy kills animals! I bet you didn't know that.

Sleeveless posted:

The Dollop are rampant plagiarists, instead of patronizing two unfunny dudes who read other peoples content word-for-word and yell over it just read the poo poo directly.

https://twitter.com/josh_levin/status/1165614548289753090

https://twitter.com/josh_levin/status/1165614564735619073

Ok! Thank you for that, and I mean that sincerely.
That's actually the only episode I've ever listened to, and only because Patton Oswalt was the guest. I didn't know much about The Dollop going in, aside from having heard the name here and there (and certainly none of ^^^that^^^), but I obviously really enjoyed that one. That said, I'm big on crediting artists and I can't stand plagiarism, so thanks for bringing that to my attention. I'll try to be more discerning from here on out. loving podcasts, man.

And to get back on track here...um...I dunno, I've got nothing right now...other than that I just called the number from the Nostalgia pamphlet on Peteypedia but it was a busy signal. :effort:

# ? Nov 29, 2019 06:44

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# ? May 31, 2024 15:30

Weedle: May 31, 2006

The Mike Yanagita scene is important because it sets up Marge going back to the dealership to question Jerry again about the missing car. She initially believes Mike about his dead wife, but when she discovers he was lying she realizes that she might also have been too quick to believe Jerry when he said the dealership wasn�t missing any cars.

# ? Nov 29, 2019 06:48

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