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If he was carrying multiple knives (he was) and laying into groups of people you would never use a traditional deadman’s switch tbf
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Nov 29, 2019 18:03
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willie_dee posted:3 days ago I had someone decry me for being a socialist for criticising landlords on twitter and pointing out that leaving your tenants home made chutney didn’t make up for the extreme exploitation of the renting class by the land lord class. I’m fairly sure some posters in here have had my back on Twitter and vice versa, maybe they don’t realise it’s me because I only post in here when I want to be told why I’m wrong. it is very good of you to share this, and i am taking it very serious. thanks, willie_dee thillie_dee e: you'll make it one day, buddy. i'm sure
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Nov 29, 2019 18:03
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If the attacker was wearing something that looked like a bomb vest then you can't take the risk of allowing it to be activated when surrounded by members of the public. I'm glad that the attacker was stopped relatively quickly and hope that the victims can recover.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:04
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Bape Culture posted:A troll account Because I don’t follow the latest up to date what words are offensive on twitter and think that the police in the case acted well. These forums are insane. I had a nice little exchange with you earlier this month where you expressed sympathy for my financial situation and the difficulties this government has forced me into. I was honestly a little touched. Turns out you're a oval office though. And I don't know what you're crowing about. Getting found out and then admitting to being a troll is not the moment of triumph you seem to think it is. Now that we know for sure that you're a troll, we want you out of our thread. Bye bye  Seems like good reason to ban your account too, though I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do. Edit: By the way, I am disabled, so an extra gently caress you for using that word and being unrepentant about it. I guess your sympathy was never actually real 
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Nov 29, 2019 18:04
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TTerrible posted:I genuinely don't understand what you're arguing. How dare you fash. The police were just out to murder. The public had everything under control. I’m sure one of them was calmly discussing with the attacker that the vest was fake and he was just about to deescalate the situation and everyone could of got up and walked away with no more injuries.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:05
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I mean don't get me wrong, the police may very well have been right here. Don't gently caress about with suicide vests if there are other potential victims in the area. However given what's happened with kettling and other anti-protest tactics in the last ten years, everything coming out of the riots overseas, the mets poo poo awful reputation for this kinda stuff and the oncoming Children of Men based climate apocalypse... Just don't want to give them too much knob slobbering and benefit of the doubt so that in ten years time they can roll out with military hardware to 'suppress dissent' like in the US.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:06
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willie_dee posted:3 days ago I had someone decry me for being a socialist for criticising landlords on twitter and pointing out that leaving your tenants home made chutney didn’t make up for the extreme exploitation of the renting class by the land lord class. I would like to hear this story. Also I wouldn't take too much comfort from being called a socialist by someone online because a big proportion of the general public out there would think of Idi Amin as a big softy :/
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Nov 29, 2019 18:07
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Braggart posted:I had a nice little exchange with you earlier this month where you expressed sympathy for my financial situation and the difficulties this government has forced me into. I was honestly a little touched. I’m not a troll. I will stop posting itt but if you guys think I’m a fascist because I think the police did well here then you really must never leave the house or speak to people. It’s disappointing that literally any disagreement with “victim blaming a terrorist” has you labelled a fascist or a troll. It’s actually kind of sad. It would be easy to try and offend you back but I really do hope you do get a better quality of life in future
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Nov 29, 2019 18:08
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TTerrible posted:I genuinely don't understand what you're arguing. If the overwhelming majority of "bomb vests" are fake that suggests that the intent of the attacker is to get the police to kill them. Which, one might suggest, helps to create the envrionment where terrorists are simply unknowable others whose motives we cannot speculate on and who the proper solution to is getting the police to kill them. Or, in other words, the environment that ensures terrorism isn't going to go away. You can suggest that individually the police might be justified in shooting someone wearing a credible looking bomb vest (though I'd also suggest that they probably expect them to be wearing one and will therefore be inclined to see one even if it isn't there) but when "man tries to murder a bunch of people and get the police to kill them by wearing fake vest" becomes a trend I might suggest that if you want to stop the bit where man murders a bunch of people, you might need to change the second bit to facilitate better understanding of the problem.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:08
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crispix posted:Also I wouldn't take too much comfort from being called a socialist by someone online because a big proportion of the general public out there would think of Idi Amin as a big softy :/
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Nov 29, 2019 18:08
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Usually I agree with this thread but the insane takes of having a go at the police for successfully stopping a terrorist attack is ridiculous. Maybe it's because I live a few minutes away from London Bridge so I'm too close to it but I'm happy for every terrorist to get immediately killed the moment they do poo poo like this and attack random people just going about their day. The Tory trash on Twitter trying to spin this against Corbyn somehow are pissing me off a lot more than anything here though. The sickness which makes people immediately politicize a tragedy and use it as a weapon is pure hatred.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:09
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willie_dee posted:3 days ago I had someone decry me for being a socialist for criticising landlords on twitter and pointing out that leaving your tenants home made chutney didn’t make up for the extreme exploitation of the renting class by the land lord class. I’m fairly sure some posters in here have had my back on Twitter and vice versa, maybe they don’t realise it’s me because I only post in here when I want to be told why I’m wrong. willie_dee posted:How dare you fash. The police were just out to murder. The public had everything under control. I’m sure one of them was calmly discussing with the attacker that the vest was fake and he was just about to deescalate the situation and everyone could of got up and walked away with no more injuries. Gonna be honest you're not doing a very good job of convincing me you're in here in good faith to learn why your poo poo take is poo poo
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Nov 29, 2019 18:09
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I swear, you guys are making the GBS thread look sensible right now.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:10
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Flayer posted:Usually I agree with this thread but the insane takes of having a go at the police for successfully stopping a terrorist attack is ridiculous. Maybe it's because I live a few minutes away from London Bridge so I'm too close to it but I'm happy for every terrorist to get immediately killed the moment they do poo poo like this and attack random people just going about their day. For the umpteenth time the police did not stop it. The general public did. It's not going to change if you keep saying it.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:10
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Bape Culture posted:I’m not a troll. I will stop posting itt but if you guys think I’m a fascist because I think the police did well here then you really must never leave the house or speak to people. It’s disappointing that literally any disagreement with “victim blaming a terrorist” has you labelled a fascist or a troll. It’s actually kind of sad. You've not bee labelled a troll because of something you posted today. You've been labelled a troll because you've been trolling for over a decade.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:10
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terrorists are bad, police are bad, questioning whether shooting someone was necessary/justified is good (even if it turns out that it was) imho
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Nov 29, 2019 18:10
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RockyB posted:I mean don't get me wrong, the police may very well have been right here. Don't gently caress about with suicide vests if there are other potential victims in the area. I don’t think for a second there is any danger of anyone who posts here liking the police enough to ignore the constant and abject failures that they will be given the benefit of the doubt. I just think in today’s incident it’s been pretty cut and dry. More clearly needs to be done to stop people in society getting to the despair they feel they need to do this kind of terrorist thing, be it mental health services or social safety nets to prevent poverty because I imagine terrorism comes about via those two things.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:11
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Flayer posted:Usually I agree with this thread but the insane takes of having a go at the police for successfully stopping a terrorist attack is ridiculous. Maybe it's because I live a few minutes away from London Bridge so I'm too close to it but I'm happy for every terrorist to get immediately killed the moment they do poo poo like this and attack random people just going about their day. Unless there was a suicide vest (real or fake), the police executed a man who was already disarmed and on the ground. And you think this is good? That makes you a dreadful person.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:12
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The video is really shocking, I can see why it's generating some debate.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:13
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OwlFancier posted:If the overwhelming majority of "bomb vests" are fake that suggests that the intent of the attacker is to get the police to kill them. I really don't think we're at that point though  OwlFancier posted:You can suggest that individually the police might be justified in shooting someone wearing a credible looking bomb vest (though I'd also suggest that they probably expect them to be wearing one and will therefore be inclined to see one even if it isn't there) but when "man tries to murder a bunch of people and get the police to kill them by wearing fake vest" becomes a trend I might suggest that if you want to stop the bit where man murders a bunch of people, you might need to change the second bit to facilitate better understanding of the problem. 100% agree on the police expecting to see one, looking for it and seeing it even if it isn't there. It's why I'm not ruling out this vest actually being a baggy hoody - but it isn't like the real ones don't happen either. it's hosed. Guavanaut posted:Simple bang button: Normally open switch. Sure, I mean more complicated in a handling sense for the attacker. One requires a lot more concentration than the other  willie_dee posted:How dare you fash. The police were just out to murder. The public had everything under control. I’m sure one of them was calmly discussing with the attacker that the vest was fake and he was just about to deescalate the situation and everyone could of got up and walked away with no more injuries. If you're agreeing with me then I'm obviously on the wrong track and withdraw.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:13
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I do not think you can separate "I'm happy the cops shot a terrorist" from "I'm not interested in preventing future terror attacks" because the idea that terrorism can only be resolved by the police killing people is precisely the attitude that ensures it keeps happening.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:14
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crispix posted:I would like to hear this story. Good point.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:14
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Like, if members of the public have been grappling with the guy extensively before you arrive and you see this on approach it's reasonable to assume he'd have blow himself up already if he'd planned to do so.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:14
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willie_dee posted:I don’t think for a second there is any danger of anyone who posts here liking the police enough to ignore the constant and abject failures that they will be given the benefit of the doubt. I just think in today’s incident it’s been pretty cut and dry. It wasn't cut and dry initially, a lot of the posts you were decrying were reacting to the footage that looked like an unnecessary use of lethal force. Part of the concern being how much easier such things become in the future. There being a vest, fake or not, makes it much more cut and dry but that wasn't clear at first.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:14
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OwlFancier posted:For the umpteenth time the police did not stop it. The general public did. It's not going to change if you keep saying it.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:15
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TTerrible posted:I genuinely don't understand what you're arguing. you were arguing that a straight-up explode button is more likely than a dead man's switch so the police were right to shoot but as can be seen from the last few attacks a fake bomb vest is more likely than a real one TTerrible posted:Why are attackers wearing fake vests? is it to invite a confrontation with the police and force them to shoot? yep. a dead terrorist declaring war in front of a flag on the news is much better propaganda for ISIS than a live terrorist in court in lovely prison trackies TTerrible posted:I can't have any real opposition to police immediately shooting dead anyone who appears (seriously, not a sweater) to have a bomb vest. In the time it takes an armed police officer to work out conclusively, if this is even possible, it could be triggered and more people could be hurt. They forfeit a lot of right to reasonable accommodations when stabbing people whilst wearing an imitation bomb, imo. shooting him with a taser seems to be a decent option and as a bonus if you're wrong you're not going to get 100k retweets of you shooting dead a mentally ill guy who decided to wear 3 layers because it was cold
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Nov 29, 2019 18:16
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Flayer posted:And what do you think the general public would have done with the guy eventually? Can't just sit on him all day. We have the police to take control of situations like this. Boy I can't imagine what we might expect the police to do with someone who'd already been apprehended, other than shoot them in the head of course.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:16
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one through line that again holds true is how you can tell which dipshits really mean it vs which dipshits are just bored petit bourgeois playing at terrorist - the ones who really mean it build bombs that actually work and usually kill themselves in the process. guess there is a third category to account for which is someone who is mentally ill but i'm very skeptical of this as a motive generally, it amplifies misconceptions about people with MH issues. edit: also do we actually have confirmation this guy was a salafi? bit suss to take mention of a beard + suicide vest and conclude "ah, a muslim". come on my dudes. gh0stpinballa fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 18:17
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Flayer posted:And what do you think the general public would have done with the guy eventually? Can't just sit on him all day. We have the police to take control of situations like this. You know it's possible to take control of someone without executing them on the street, right?
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Nov 29, 2019 18:17
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TheRat posted:Unless there was a suicide vest (real or fake), the police executed a man who was already disarmed and on the ground. And you think this is good? That makes you a dreadful person.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:18
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Flayer posted:Usually I agree with this thread but the insane takes of having a go at the police for successfully stopping a terrorist attack is ridiculous. Maybe it's because I live a few minutes away from London Bridge so I'm too close to it but I'm happy for every terrorist to get immediately killed the moment they do poo poo like this and attack random people just going about their day. what do you think is ISIS's preferred outcome between a dead terrorist and a live one?
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Nov 29, 2019 18:19
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Flayer posted:I don't want to see anyone die but if you have a person who wants to go out and murder random innocent people for no reason I don't see how you can have any sympathy for them when they get killed during that murderous action. Because murderers don't just spring from the earth fully formed. Most of the terror attacks in the UK are done by people born and raised here, it is our society that produces them. Crime is a social problem. They don't do it "for no reason". Crime and terrorism are not impossible, unknowable things that just happen and all we can do is shrug and shoot people over it.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:19
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Flayer posted:I don't want to see anyone die but if you have a person who wants to go out and murder random innocent people for no reason I don't see how you can have any sympathy for them when they get killed during that murderous action. If you can't find a better reason (there are many), how about not turning him into a martyr?
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Nov 29, 2019 18:20
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OwlFancier posted:For the umpteenth time the police did not stop it. The general public did. It's not going to change if you keep saying it. It sounds like several of the public got stabbed in the process though. Like yeah the police lie about this kind of event a lot and there's plenty of fash around who will use this to try to justify more guns everywhere which we should absolutely resist. It would have been better to arrest him instead if possible (even the most crazed military fetishist ought to realise that we can find out a lot more about how this happened and if the guy was working with anyone else if he can be questioned). But it doesn't really seem that unreasonable for someone who stabbed a bunch of people to end up dead at the end of it?
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Nov 29, 2019 18:21
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Flayer posted:I don't want to see anyone die but if you have a person who wants to go out and murder random innocent people for no reason I don't see how you can have any sympathy for them when they get killed during that murderous action. who said anything about having sympathy for the guy? you can hate the guy and his actions while also thinking that maybe the police shouldn't be using "shoot the guy ASAP" as their plan A
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Nov 29, 2019 18:21
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Bape Culture posted:I’m not a troll. I will stop posting itt but if you guys think I’m a fascist because I think the police did well here then you really must never leave the house or speak to people. It’s disappointing that literally any disagreement with “victim blaming a terrorist” has you labelled a fascist or a troll. It’s actually kind of sad. Yes it would be easy for you to try, but you would regret it. I'm glad you're feeling some shame about your conduct, but please explain how what I did was "offending you" rather than pointing out your shittiness and hypocrisy. You've made a lot of dreadful posts here today, and I expect you'll be probated for them. Try to learn from it. As far as I'm concerned, you can post in this thread if you don't act like a oval office. You managed it for a couple of weeks this month. But I'm not on the moderation team, and it's up to them  You started this by storming in and trying to bait people into arguing with you, including specifically attacking Owlfancier unprovoked. This is your fault and you haven't accepted responsibility at all. You acted like a loving vulture by gleefully starting a fight on the back of an unfolding tragedy. You should be ashamed. gently caress you again. Feel like apologising for using an ableist, racist slur now? What about the rest of it?
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Nov 29, 2019 18:22
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Julio Cruz posted:shooting him with a taser seems to be a decent option Tasering a guy wearing three layers isn't likely to work particularly well. Tasering someone wearing a working explosive vest is like to work *spectacularly* badly.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:22
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gh0stpinballa posted:one through line that again holds true is how you can tell which dipshits really mean it vs which dipshits are just bored petit bourgeois playing at terrorist - the ones who really mean it build bombs that actually work and usually kill themselves in the process. just to add, guys, there's so far *no evidence* this guy was ISIS or even a muslim. chill that for a time. he may well have been EDL or BF for all we know right now. or just some rando. gh0stpinballa fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 18:22
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Flayer posted:I don't want to see anyone die but if you have a person who wants to go out and murder random innocent people for no reason I don't see how you can have any sympathy for them when they get killed during that murderous action. It doesn't happen in isolation. We get desensitised to it and it gets easier and easier each time. I'm not saying it ends with LAVs on the streets but it will escalate and be more common in more and more inappropriate situations
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Nov 29, 2019 18:23
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sinky posted:Also says what Jo will do when they win a majority. Wet herself and have an aneurysm.
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