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It's all right if people continue to disagree on stark choices. In fact, I prefer when that happens, you might have guessed. But let's keep the personal attacks to a minimum, even with in-character posts. Anyway, expect a short update before the end of the week. After that, the state of the world in 1300.
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Nov 19, 2019 04:09
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I know we're still several updates away from the end of CK2, but I have a suggestion for the EUIV conversion: Instead of voting on discrete proposals for the regions outside of the current map, the thread brainstorms different ideas for each region, then when it's time to set up the regions, Kangxi selects a few of the ideas randomly, and uses those to put together a picture of the region, even if some of the results seem contradictory.
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Nov 19, 2019 23:00
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Robindaybird posted:Agreed, some people taking things a notch too far makes it less enjoyable - and the constant bickering is what eventually made me quit crete, because it started to take away from the actual LP. aw yeah; I was goofin' around, but deffo agreed
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Nov 19, 2019 23:10
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Chapter 47: 1290 to 1300 - Tsenmo Purgyal Choden 'the Strong' Continuation of the previous lecture delivered by Dr. Dimitris Bagdzevičius, a professor of military history at the Queen Dobrava Military Academy in Orsha. Yes, you guessed correctly. About half of you guessed it right, anyway. The nobles say, almost like Alexander in India - 'No. We've had enough. Arabia and Persia are enough, we are not ready to go to China.' And she agrees. One of the biggest armies in the world, and they just ... go home. They're relieved to go home and return to their spouses and their children. Most of them are probably suffering the effects of the heat, especially the Tibetan nobility and officers who were never stationed in India.  The army returns home, save for a garrison and the nobles who now have the daunting task of ruling this most inhospitable territory. The nobles, having observed that rare phenomenon that is called a quick and glorious war, are satisfied.  She finally marries. She asks specifically for someone who will not interfere with her business and not leave too many illegitimate children. They find a far distant relative who is, shall we say, like Alexander the Great but in another way. They become good friends.   Over the following decade, she passes a series of reforms to grant her the powers that were lost to the empress after the series of civil wars against Pelmo I in the 1120s. Imperial authority is now at its greatest point in over a century. Even with this tightening of monarchical authority, she still exercised restraint. In fact, she could have declared the war against China without her nobles' approval, but then it would have been much harder if they did not provide her total and unconditional support. She was not that kind of ruler. Tibet would have that kind of ruler later, of course, but that was not her.   She performs her duty and bears a son, although refrains from having many more due to complications with the birth.  She deliberately cultivates the image of herself as a pious figure, ready to venerate the gods, respect the structure of the universe, and carry out the laws of benevolence that were established centuries ago.  Around this time, the Han continue to cultivate relationships with kingdoms as far afield as Georgia, which was at the time ruled by Persians. This alarms the Tibetans.  In turn, they reach out to the smaller kingdoms on their borders. We see the greater powers trying to cultivate relationships with smaller polities in important regions, and see the smaller kingdoms leveraging that to their advantage. Of course, I do not need to tell you the parallels to our current international situation.  The Tibetans, then made their own diplomatic masterstroke. They first agree to assist the Mongolian Khatun - Temulun II - they would assist her in the suppression of a rebellion within their territory. The Mongolians agree.  This, in turn, allows her to clamp down further on the vassal kings and prevent the endless skirmishes and border wars that were fought along the Hindu Kush and the western part of the Tarim Basin.  She cites a series of favorable omens for this move, coinciding with her second pregnancy.  She forces through another series of legal reforms, emphasizing and clarifying the rights and legal status of residents of cities and the merchants. Without serious opposition, the laws change instantly.  Lhasa becomes a hub of trade and recovers quickly from the last wars.  With her final gesture, she convinces the Sacred Hierarch to formally invite the Mongolian Khatun back into the church. It is a success, and the last major differences between the Khatun of Mongolia and the Tsenmo of Tibet are resolved. It is a brilliant series of diplomatic gestures that strengthens both of them against the continental hegemon - the Han.  That is not to say that Tibet is powerless. On the contrary. The empire has changed dramatically from what it was a century ago, and easily from the time of the great Gyalyum. Many of its most populous holdings are directly under the administration of the empress, and the nobility and customs of those areas are well integrated into the empire. Those areas too distant to rule directly are autonomous, and make many of their own decisions in domestic affairs - and in some cases even foreign policy. Yet with the variety of the customs, legal codes, and languages it contained, the Tibetans - and in other ways - the Mongolian empires survived. They can be thought of as complicated pieces of machinery that seem to move more or less independently. If you kick them or dent them, some of the more delicate mechanisms may be damaged, but for almost four centuries, the empire survived.  In the hands of capable rulers, and Tibet was fortunate to have many - that polity had great power and influence. We can deduce this from the empress's own orders and letters, the depths of strategic thought that were possible. The epistolary collection is one of your readings by the way, although you don't have to read the whole thing.  For example, there's the description of the western religions that she had commissioned, complete with "a full and annotated translation of their sutras" describing mendicant orders and their focus on scriptural interpretation over institutional tradition.  Or the diplomatic missives with the Mongolians...  But the bulk of her writing concerns religious principles, the demands and interests of the church.  And her own personal investigations into philosophy.  It's not really the most original exposition of Bon philosophy that we have, but it's unique as a document of a person's inner life. There may be other documents written by Tibetan rulers but they are in more fragmentary editions or untranslated. This is one of the most complete memoirs we have.  Though, of course, we must remember that these empresses are not idealized figures, and each had to deal with the very human demands and intrigues of their own court. More on that later. Now I'll need to discuss the Mongols and their new western expedition...
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Nov 20, 2019 03:18
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Kangxi, I got a question about the mod you're using: do the Reforms remain after the death of the ruler, or do you need to re-up them with each successor?
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Nov 20, 2019 20:00
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SirPhoebos posted:Kangxi, I got a question about the mod you're using: do the Reforms remain after the death of the ruler, or do you need to re-up them with each successor? They weaken in effectiveness after each ruler. After digging through the files, imperial inefficiency is pretty linked to empire size and state stewardship but can be held off with reforms or granting autonomy.
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Nov 20, 2019 21:42
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Will this be on the exam?
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Nov 20, 2019 22:45
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State of the World - 1300 As told by the slightly drunk head of a merchant company, Hangzhou, 1300 Oh, thank heavens. It's good to be home, really is. This place looks fantastic. Hey, waiter! Get me some of those mitten crabs to pass around. I've missed having food like this, years.  Everything just looks better, you know? More things, the streets look cleaner. Hangzhou's bigger. I barely recognize the place.  Heard that Xie Mei's doing well. He got promoted, head of the Western Protectorate. It's amazing. We came from the same county! I mean he did better on the exams, but I've done pretty well for myself now.  Don't envy him. He has to deal with the Mongols every day.  We only stopped briefly in Tibet. We went overland to get there, and we went back by boat. Nothing to complain about on the journey, thank Mazu. If you want stories, I can't tell you much there. Just some old things...  Oh yeah we stopped in Degan. That was new. They make a lot of money from cotton and gems.  Before that, we stopped in Makelan. That place gives me the creeps. Barely anybody lives there and it's all run by the Tibetan priests. It's a place where birds don't lay eggs and dogs don't poo poo. No, no, I didn't stay there too long. Just get out while you still have water.  I spent a lot of my time in Yilang. Absolutely beautiful. Make a fortune there, selling spices, silks, carpets. Yes, embroidered carpets. The Tibetans will pay a fortune for them and hang them up in their houses. Keep the cold out. Did I tell you I met the vassal queen once? It was at a royal feast, and we- Oh finally! The drinks are here. Pass the Shaoxing. Ganbei! We didn't talk that long, but I was happy to meet. We could do business. I know she's made good deals herself. Wanted to buy some iron ore. Oh, for the army probably. I mean the far west, the Tibetans and governors run the places themselves. Autonomous.  It's like the kingdom in the south, you see. Alabo. Lots of dates come out of there. Harder to travel, unless you're moving by boat. No, I don't know about that one. If their vassal queen is smarter she can hold on to everything, but I don't think the locals will let her.  It's like, it's like what happened to Yelusaleng. They lost the war with Tibet, they're barely holding on to what's left.  They're probably going to lose all the south too. The Buddhists have had enough and they've revolted. Oh, you want more stories about the west? Well, I've never been much further west than Ankala. Let's see...  Oh, there is an empress that eats people. There's that. I think it's part of their religion. She does it in public, too, like --- no, no, no, what am I doing. This isn't a story for dinner. Guuuh. Strange place, the west. Do human sacrifices over there. Awful awful awful.   Lessee. There's another kingdom just to the west of those. Kalantan? They're in the middle of a dynastic war. Big river runs through the place, easy transit. Tough going now because one of the barbarian kings says all of the world was created by evil and that the churches have to be torn up and the other says, 'don't do that'. I mean if I lived over there I'd say somebody evil made the world! We know better.  There's another place further west than that, that's ruled by a skeleton. I don't think it's a skeleton, I just think they don't have enough food over there.   Lots of little kingdoms to the south of them - just to the west from the Yelusaleng Raj. Across a salt sea. Lots of stone ruins around. I think the Persians built those, but I'm not sure. I don't want to go and look up myself.  To their west, the mad empress Shiva. Yeah, I thought they were pulling my leg, too. Asked the guys I hired from Gujarat and they clucked their tongues. Wasn't theirs.   But you want my opinion? They've got a real pirate problem. Like, everything along the coasts, that's forfeit. Can't fish, can't trade. I mean we have our pirates, too, coming from the east but we can push them back. It's like they've just given up. Just gone over to violence, not even trying anything else. it's sad. They're just going to be picked at, piece by piece, and then it's all gone. Just like we'll eat that stuffed pig. Feel terrible for them.    Take or be taken in this world, and Confucius doesn't tell you that. If you can't defend yourself - or much better - stay with decent people and then build yourself something better that's worth defending - then there's nothing that can be done for you. But I got people the expensive and rare things they want, and now what I'm going to do is stay here and buy you all some very nice things.  Though if I were about 20 years younger, I'd try and head out again to the southern continent.  There is another fortune to be made there... 
Kangxi fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 04:14
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Man there are a lot of Christian cannibals.
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Nov 21, 2019 05:49
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Tulip posted:Man there are a lot of Christian cannibals. Maybe that's why there's so much heresy Catharism, Lollardism, Bogomilism, all of it is fundamentally based on the same critique of "STOP EATING PEOPLE"
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Nov 21, 2019 06:28
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Big fan of the Norse warrior-queens taking half of the Mediterranean.
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Nov 21, 2019 07:38
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Khazaria exists!
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Nov 21, 2019 20:16
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habeasdorkus posted:Khazaria exists! It is doing much more than exist. It conquers.  Sindai posted:Big fan of the Norse warrior-queens taking half of the Mediterranean. I should add that there is one Norse King on the Mediterranean too, the king of Burgundy.  There are also some rulers that I didn't add in the SOTW post but they are still worth mentioning. Meet the Slavic King Koz'ma of Vladimir,  The Orthodox Queen Abelina di Richmond of Lithuania  And Duchess Tuulitar of the Finns, in Karelia: 
Kangxi fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 22, 2019 00:11
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Did the Khazars ever figure out which Judaism was the right one?
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Nov 22, 2019 00:31
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Huh, this is pretty cool. It's nice to have a decade or so of peace to build up!
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Nov 22, 2019 07:23
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Kangxi posted:It is doing much more than exist. It conquers.  Khazaria for lucky nation come EU4!
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Nov 22, 2019 15:11
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Viola the Mad posted:Did the Khazars ever figure out which Judaism was the right one? The Rabbinic Khazars are the ones that are currently running all over the Mongol-Byzantines and their cannibal empress, but the Karaites are still kicking. Some are just east of the Dniester river, others are in Crimea, and a third group are near the Volga river, just across Kazan.
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Nov 22, 2019 19:12
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Chapter 48: 1300 to 1325 - Tsenmo Purgyal Choden 'the Strong' MARCO POLO: POLITICAL CORRECTNESS AND HISTORICAL INACCURACY GONE WRONG?!? Published November 21, 2012 Hey YouTubers! This is Degyal1337 here, the Rational History Treasurer. [The YouTuber's avatar appears on the screen, a carved statue of a snow lion from the early Purgyal period, with an elaborate golden headdress and arms crossed, its default pose. Behind it is an ornate seating room, complete with piles of silver taels on the floor.] Today, I've got a very special episode for you all. Now, you know I do history reviews of books, TV shows, and other media. I collect historical memorabilia, I read lots of history books, those that the media and academic circlejerks don't want you to know about, I play history video games. You could say I've learned a lot and that I can hold my own in any debate. But this time - this time, uh, we've got something truly awful for you all to look it. It's the new streaming series, Marco Polo.  Now, I was at first thrilled to hear that Webflix was making more historical content, not just stuff from the 19th and 20th centuries. But my hopes and expectations were ruined - completely - when I realized that this production was ruined by bad characterization, sloppy historical research, and most importantly, the conspiracy of academics and historical revisionists. See also my ongoing series on The Decline and Fall of Real History. [A link to a 12 video playlist appears onscreen. The first video is an hour and forty-five minutes long.] But anyway back to the series. [He plays past the introduction, a series of stylized ink paintings of the main cast with faint throat singing, a full Western string orchestra, and taiko drums playing.]   [The series starts with a woman reciting mantras to the god Sangpo Buntri.] OK. So here's where we have problems. And really where the whole thing goes wrong. The Tibetan empress here is 'Purgyal Choden', and really this distorted and biased portrayal of her and enforced positivity is where everything goes wrong. The Purgyals were a dynasty that ruled Tibet up until 1254 when they were legally and rightly deposed by the Taktse Dynasty under Degyal I after a period of violence and instability. So the rightful emperors of Tibet would rightfully be the Taktses at this point. But! Degyal's son, Omade, was brutally murdered by Fuyuan, the evil tyrant, in 1279. The Purgyals had no right to the throne, and only stole it and were not legitimated by the sacred hierarchy. That is why I believe that the monarchy should be constituted under the Taktse Dynasty, not the Purgyals. This queen is illegitimate, she has no right to be here, and I'm sick of it. I'm sick of seeing the Purgyals being treated this way in historical accounts.   [He skips forward through a couple of scenes where the empress' father returns from China, exhausted from his long journey but happy to be home.] Meh. Just the typical misandry that we see these days. [His avatar gives a thumbs down gesture, before returning to its usual crossed arm state.]    [Scene where a Chinese official introduces himself to the court. The Tibetan officials have a brief conversation in subtitled Chinese. The official is offended and storms out. Marco Polo narrates all this.] OK, the clothes are all wrong here. The Second Han official would be wearing a completely different set of outfits here and they wouldn't wear such vibrant dyes. I don't see why we need to enforce modern fashion on these historical characters. Also, his accent is terrible!  [Scene where Macro Polo is introduced to the empress, who is overseeing the writing of a book. He provides some useful tips] Yes. This makes sense. There is no way that the false empress could have understood the empire's needs at the time. Her reputation has been artificially inflated by biased accounts, and they are obviously dependent on outside assistance.  [Scene where the Empress consults with her advisors.]  [Choden appears somber and reflective, not triumphant as she signs a series of laws defining, or restricting, the rights of the nobility and elevating the bureaucracy.]  [Choden asks Marco Polo about the empires of his homeland, about the western invaders, the northern pirates, the cannibals who sit on the holy throne in the west. Polo replies that they were evicted from the Queen of Cities long ago. She asks about his native Venice, the fortress city of the Western Invaders. He says that the city at least is still beautiful and he wishes to return to it. Choden is reflective, then signs her name and lowers the massive imperial seal on the documents.] OK, this doesn't make sense. This whole scene doesn't make sense. It's compressing several historical anecdotes together, and we have no evidence that Polo would ever get to see this. It's completely implausible.  [He points at a councilwoman in the background.] Those facial paint markings are completely inaccurate. There is no way that is a Tibetan!   [Scenes of the city of Chitral.] OK, this is the wrong city completely. I know it's hard to find anything that might have looked like old Lhasa, but this is completely wrong. They clearly just photoshopped the palace and temples in. And where is the university?  [The empress' son, Zongtsen, appears in a different scene. The Youtuber is not even attempting to follow the series of events, he's just looking around for things.] So that guy isn't so bad. I wish he was a bit more muscled though.  This is a time when Tibet was powerful and the men of Tibet weren't all just pretty, right? I mean, what about the empress' husband? What happened to him?  [Scenes of the Han court, where a few officials from East and North Africa in the background are paying tribute.] Ugh! I'm sick of this forced diversity!  [A scene of Choden lending her horse to a messenger, while conversing with a few officials. Marco Polo, who has been promoted to a minor state official, is in attendance.]  [Skipping around aimlessly, he goes to a scene where the Sacred Hierarch, in a conspiratorial mood, is whispering to a vassal king, talking about how the Purgyals must be shaken and that evidence of the empress' misconduct must be exposed.] No! No! No! I'm sick of this misrepresentation of the record! I don't know if the Sacred Hierarch ever said this, but if he did he was right! The Purgyals were evil and had to be overthrown! Earlier! I'm sick of all this false media messaging! [The stone statue makes a rude gesture at the actor.]  loving Purgyals. If they hadn't deposed .... then where would we be...   Oh haha. Fake us out with the book reveal. Very clever. Of course, Marco Polo wouldn't have finished it yet. He didn't get home.  And why have all these gratuitous shots of everybody's forearms? Nobody could be that strong. Purgyals aren't known for being strong, they're all evil!  [Scenes of war, a stirring and ominous soundtrack. Independent Mongolian hordes invade the frontiers Tibetan Persia.] OK, I know, I know. This scene is inaccurate but it, this is probably the only thing the show does decently. The war and battle scenes are not bad.  More scenes of the empress moping, though, boohoo.  I mean who is sad that they have a statue made of them? Good Gods! I'd love to have a statue made of me! [The little avatar winks at you.]   [Cuts to a royal wedding, where the empress' oldest daughter marries a Chinese prince.] Ugh. All this customing. I don't care about the pretty boy, get to the good stuff!  They probably got his name wrong, too. I can't think of anyone being named just Dan.  The scenery looks so bad. They probably didn't film near this part near Mafaza or what have you, but some film lot with lots of sand.   The battles with the Mongolians were bad. No way would they just bunch up like this. The horses are turning away and they wouldn't act like this. At least the scene was short. The Mongolians should have fought on more. And there is no way that the empress still led from the front.  The whole thing has a real problem with pacing even in the good bits, and its distortion of history just takes over for everything else.  OK, and now it just segues into a war for Transoxiana. There's no context here, they're just bunching up events. [He continues to skip around.]  The lead up for the battle near Urgench is so good, though. The swelling music, the massive armies, and then you have to see the false empress again. Completely ruins the effect.  See, I've never even heard of half of these places! What is a Faravah? They're just making things up.  [Skipping around to a ritual sacrifice done before battle.] Sacrifices weren't even done like that. That's just terrible acting.  Khiva, whatever.  [Skipping around to reinforcements from the Deccan Empire.] Elephants look nice though.   Blah blah blah it's done they all go home.  Ugh, now we have to get into the Deccan Empire too! But anyway, I need to really get into the weeds here on why everything is wrong. You see, it all starts with the Purgyal Dynasty's betrayal of Tibet, and how they conspired to control the media and the academics, and the press!... [Oh Sangpo Bumtri, you leave to fetch your laundry and clean the litterbox and autoplay gets you this. He's still got thirty minutes! Now your recommendations will be off for weeks...] [You click dislike, then go back to your music playlist and wonder how the hell videos like this pop up in your recommendations. Guge Video never had this problem.]
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Nov 24, 2019 04:32
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This was a fun update. I'm looking forward to more, as always!
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Nov 24, 2019 04:49
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It's uncanny how well you got the diction down.
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Nov 24, 2019 05:01
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That was great. I hate it.
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Nov 24, 2019 07:11
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cant wait to watch the last 30m!
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Nov 24, 2019 07:59
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Well, that just made me very glad to have never seen the videos you are referencing.
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Nov 24, 2019 09:00
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why
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Nov 24, 2019 13:16
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That update made me angry. I mean, it was very good. Still made me angry.
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Nov 24, 2019 18:59
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I'm not surprised videos like that exist, but I'm so glad I haven't seen one myself.
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Nov 24, 2019 19:27
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And this is why you turn autoplay off.
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Nov 24, 2019 19:39
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Purgyal Tyrant DESTROYED with Facts and Logic
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Nov 25, 2019 06:13
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I love the framing devices for these updates.
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Nov 25, 2019 10:51
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Chapter 49: 1325 to 1333 - Tsenmo Purgyal Choden 'the Strong'/'Strongarm' "Good afternoon, Ma. Blessings be with-" "Oh hello, Zongtsen! Blessings be with you. Look who's here, everyone, my son came to visit. It's so good to see you-" "Agh, god, you're hugging me so tight, I can't breathe-" "Oh yes. Excuse me. Have a seat. I'll have the servants bring some of the roast from yesterday. Or maybe they can make carrot fudge-" "That would be fantastic, thank you." Zongtsen watches the servants leave to the kitchens. "How have you been, ma?"  She breathes out, a long slow rattling sigh. "I've been praying a lot more."  "I mean, it's the time I really have left to feel anything good."  "I keep thinking about the war, and all that. The last one."  "We won that one, ma." "We won it, but it took too long, and we were not prepared for it. I worry of the Chinese invading us. I know the emperor hates us and would seek to crush upon us."  "Zongtsen, my son, I have failed in my duties and ambitions. I have not truly avenged the death of my mother, and in this war, my greatest compatriots were slain." "Mom."  "I mean, what's left for me? Your father's gone. The nobles, they don't - they don't need me. They can all talk. They're all just waiting for you to take the throne. You're well. You have a good wife, fine lands, children. But Gungtsen's just become so angry after his time in the guard and Kunzang, that trollop, has slept with so many people that her brain's gone soft from the pox." "Don't talk about my siblings like that, Ma. Please-" "Fine. But what do I have now to do, Zongtsen, hm? I struggle to rise from bed or sign the papers."  "The gods are all I have left. They're the only way I can be redeemed."  "So that's why I left Lhasa and do everything here."  "I let diplomacy slip for a little while, yes,"  "But I've kept a tighter grip on the purse. I know I won't wake up and find the nobles have stolen everything."  "Oh, I've given myself a headache." They sit in silence. On cue, the servants present a hot kettle of butter tea and two metal cups before withdrawing.  "Oh, Zongtsen, I'm sorry. I can't be too mad at anyone for too wrong. I am often frustrated."   "I've been talking to some priests and wise men that I've found. I feel they've been very helpful." "That's very good, ma." "You should have some around, too." "Hm. I'll. I'll think about it."  "It seems like there are too many wise men and scholars without patrons in China, so I sent a few men out and hired some. It was very easy." "The Han are not so well these days, isn't it."  "No, no they are not." A smile barely creeps onto the corner of her mouth, before her countenance again turns grave. She forces her gaze out the open window. All worth it. "Zongtsen, I don't expect all this to last, so don't be afraid to try something else if it doesn't work." "Mom?" "Forty years is a long time. I won't expect this peace between us to last, so be ready." "I'll try, ma." "How long are you staying?" "A week. Then back to Lhasa." "A week sounds lovely. I'll make sure to introduce you to the staff and take you hunting." "I look forward to it." ===================================================================== The hunt was good. Her Majesty, the Empress Choden asks the servants wait as she returns to her chambers. She unfastens her helmet and sinks onto the chair with a sigh. She feels the colder evening breeze wafting through the window. She did not open that window. She bolts from the chair in the anteroom and runs to the bedroom, where she sees a seated woman in armor, her face inscrutable in the dark. The air stinks of sulfur, and smoke rises from between the gaps in the apparition's helmet. The empress hears a faint whispered voice. "Aren't you going to make a deal? One last bargain for your life?" "Not really. Get it over with."  
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Nov 26, 2019 05:21
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 Looking forward to seeing what this lad's all about
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Nov 26, 2019 13:55
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Emperor chonky boy!
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Nov 27, 2019 08:33
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He's not fat, he's rubenesque.
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Nov 27, 2019 18:37
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We better get the option to give him the title "the Bear". Or at least, "the Cub".
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Nov 27, 2019 19:03
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Chapter 50: 1333 to 1339 - Tsenpo Purgyal Zungtsen 'the Handsome' [From Iriye Keisuke's A History of Asia, published 1891.]  The new Emperor of Tibet at the time, Zungtsen, was passionately fond of artistic pursuits and scholarly innovation; his courtly life was at first marked by glamorous excess and ample patronage. Contemporary writers recall his presence at court affairs and ritual combat, and they frequently eulogized his handsome visage and alluring countenance.  The armies of his empire, in addition to those armies of his vassal kingdoms, had concluded a successful campaign against the Cuman lords of the Oxus, and they would advance still further north, cautiously around into the steppe and desert of Ustyurt to subdue kingdoms which had allied themselves to the Great Han.  Being an ambitious figure, one raised in the Tibetan martial tradition, it would not need to be assumed that he had heard of the tales of his ancestors and of their military feats against the Great Han. As a figure well versed in the art of court and palace, he would have been raised to seek out and strike at moments of weakness. When news reached him of peasant rebellions in Hunan,  As well as what appeared to be a decisive military defeat at the hands of the Mongols,  He so made his decision to invade the Western provinces. He did not need to formally consult anyone, as the consolidation of power in the hands of the imperial seat had removed that requirement. In any case, he was convinced that this would be an advantageous moment and that a brief war would elevate his position, redeem himself in the eyes of the nobility and dynastic tradition, and bring the Empire further glory and riches for its pursuits. It was not to be.  He had dramatically overestimated the size and endurance of the peasant revolts in the interior, and soon the Han were able to send at least troops to the west to combat his armies.  Even worse, the Mongols, upon hearing the news that Tibet had invaded the Han, signed a peace treaty and ceded a small amount of territory near Dunhuang to their southern neighbors. While it was advantageous for them to work with Tibet against a more powerful Han, the threat of Tibet achieving total hegemony over the Eurasian continent was enough to cause them to abandon their previous arrangement and instead let the other two great powers go to combat each other.  This left the first wave of the Tibetan army facing some 80,000 or more troops of the Later Han.  They met on an open field near Derlenka.  While the Tibetans were outnumbered, they were able to push against the Han army's flank due to their advantageous position and their opponent's ignorance of conditions of this part of the desert.  Reinforcements came in piecemeal...  And so were defeated.  Were it just that army alone, the Tibetans would have been able to advance in their campaign,  But the Han did not possess only one army. Due to their vast population, ample reserves of wealth, and significant war industry, they were able to amass another army;   And soon overwhelm the exhausted Tibetans, again near Derlenka.  The exhausted Tibetans were soon forced to retreat.  They went east and engaged in clashes again with the Han there, while an army of reinforcements had come from the south.  While the main army was able to repel the Han, though at considerable cost,  Their reinforcements were ambushed and destroyed.  The emperor of the Tibetans was not to be faulted for the conduct of his main army; he was personally a brave individual. But it was at this point that he was contesting forces beyond any individual control.  With one loss, other short-lived rebellions in the south broke out, but these were soon repressed with local troops. Were these troops removed, the rebellion would have become more widespread and bastions of Tibetan authority would become scarce.  In an audacious move, he advanced directly into Han authority, in an attempt to stir up fear and panic and limit their capacity to make war. But there is an additional factor that he did not anticipate, and even contemporary military leaders would be wise to take into consideration.  The contemporary records call it an outbreak of evil magic; or bewitchment; or a curse - my own hypothesis would be to call it the result of an epidemic disease. My tentative estimate is an infection in the groundwater or consumption of poisonous materials such as ergot.  The Tibetan army would dance. The emperor would dance. They would dance not for hours upon end, as in festivals, they would not dance for weeks upon end. They danced until they collapsed of exhaustion, or heat stroke, or dehydration.  Already exhausted, a fraction of the Han armies they faced were enough to overwhelm them.  The Tibetan expedition ended in total defeat and humiliation.   Incredibly, the emperor himself was said to have fallen victim to this period of the delusion of the crowd, but due to his sturdy and ursine physique, he survived for several days and indeed returned to normal. He became known, of all things, as a 'dancing king'.  There was little evidence that he shied away from this new appellation.  And he was known to his people as an icon of prosperity,  and fertility.   This continued, in the face of renewed threats both within the empire and abroad. Kangxi fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 01:42
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Hell yes. This dude rules.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:30
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MaxieSatan posted:Hell yes. This dude rules. 
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Nov 29, 2019 02:37
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Is there a way to read a single post at a time? Lpix has just plain given up on loading all the images on this page.
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Nov 29, 2019 05:05
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Sindai posted:Is there a way to read a single post at a time? Lpix has just plain given up on loading all the images on this page. In the Edit Options menu under the User Control Panel, you can edit how many posts can show per page. Look under Thread View Options. There's also a similar option for the mobile app.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:18
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It turns out lpix was just chilling on Thanksgiving or something because it works fine today. 
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Nov 29, 2019 18:55
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