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orange juche posted:This sounds illegal OP, you should probably not do it It's not illegal to gamble online in my country, just illegal for the casinos that are offering it. Which is why they'll only send payment via bitcoin. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 29, 2019 05:28
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Wutang-Yutani posted:It's not illegal to gamble online in my country, just illegal for the casinos that are offering it. Which is why they'll only send payment via bitcoin. dude you're gonna get loving nailed to the wall when the casinos get busted for it. Do not gently caress with this, I've heard that jail is not a fun place. They will go after the casinos, and then they will go after everyone who partook of the illegal online gambling. Conveniently, the blockchain knows you got paid. The tax man always collects his due. orange juche fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 05:31
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Just look at it as a gambling loss and move on. Also, stop gambling.
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Nov 29, 2019 05:46
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orange juche posted:dude you're gonna get loving nailed to the wall when the casinos get busted for it. Do not gently caress with this, I've heard that jail is not a fun place. It's not illegal to gamble at offshore online casinos in my country, you can't get arrested for doing something that isn't illegal. Anyway, not going to argue the point since now everyone's aware I'm not only a (reluctant) bitcoin toucher but a filthy gambler I'll just get laughed outta the thread.
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Nov 29, 2019 05:51
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Wutang-Yutani posted:It's not illegal to gamble at offshore online casinos in my country, you can't get arrested for doing something that isn't illegal. If what you were doing was legal it wouldn't require bitcoin. This is kind of the entire point that's being made. Maybe it's not illegal in your country, but it obviously is in the country of the casino(s) you are gambling at. Perhaps just for people outside of that country or people in your country. But if it requires bitcoin, there is something illegal about the transaction for someone involved in the transaction. And I'm sure you are properly reporting your winnings to the relevant tax authority when you receive them in internet pogs, right?
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Nov 29, 2019 05:59
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Wutang-Yutani posted:It's not illegal to gamble at offshore online casinos in my country, you can't get arrested for doing something that isn't illegal. It is not illegal, but you assuredly have to make tax declarations on the funds received from the bitcoin transaction. If you are not doing this, you are breaking the law.
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Nov 29, 2019 06:01
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It's legal, as long as you do it in a smokey backroom and the authorities don't know about it.
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Nov 29, 2019 13:48
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Wutang-Yutani posted:Anyway, not going to argue the point since now everyone's aware I'm not only a (reluctant) bitcoin toucher but a filthy gambler I'll just get laughed outta the thread. I'm not just laughing at you for touching bitcoins or online gambling I'm laughing at you for thinking that splitting up transactions and playing shell games with bitcoins is in any way useful. If the taxman ever takes an interest in you it's not gonna help.
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Nov 29, 2019 15:22
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orange juche posted:dude you're gonna get loving nailed to the wall when the casinos get busted for it. Do not gently caress with this, I've heard that jail is not a fun place.
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Nov 29, 2019 15:29
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Klyith posted:I'm not just laughing at you for touching bitcoins or online gambling
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Nov 29, 2019 15:39
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orange juche posted:dude you're gonna get loving nailed to the wall when the casinos get busted for it. Do not gently caress with this, I've heard that jail is not a fun place. the IRS, an agency with no funding, computers, or new hires by design of congress, is never in a million years going to track down every rear end in a top hat who ever withdrew money from a gamgling site. the FBI and DEA get actual funding and it's all they can do to knock off a few sloppy vendors with old fashioned police work when they totally compromise a drug market and have a complete picture of their bitcoin situation, even though millions are flowing through there and it's all on the blockchain poverty goat fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 15:44
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poverty goat posted:the IRS, an agency with no funding, computers, or new hires by design of congress, is never in a million years going to track down every rear end in a top hat who ever withdrew money from a gamgling site. the FBI and DEA get actual funding and it's all they can do to knock off a few sloppy vendors with old fashioned police work when they totally compromise a drug market and have a complete picture of their bitcoin situation, even though millions are flowing through there and it's all on the blockchain Not every rear end in a top hat, but it can track down enough to make it painful in a risk-to-reward way. Pay your taxes, kids. More than a few of our clients have felt the pain of the Canada Revenue Agency after doing what we advised them not to.
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Nov 29, 2019 16:34
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If you think about it, gambling is just a tax on people who don't know math. And taxes are a tax on people who are honest. Or get caught. Bitscoin is a tax on the environment, however.
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Nov 29, 2019 16:39
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Herman Merman posted:That's a loving bitcoiner argument, you're better than this.
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Nov 29, 2019 17:53
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Shumagorath posted:Why do people think they can defeat tax accountants by doing everything in an extremely public ledger? the IRS isn't even bothering with the blockchain ledger. the IRS gets you when you convert your butts back into real money, because banks and the exchanges who do KYC tell the IRS that you got $10k and then the IRS comes to you and says "what's up with that $10k?" staying away from the exchanges that do KYC means rolling the dice that your money won't be stolen by an exit scam, or vanish from a hack, or be lost via sheer incompetence, or all of the above at the same time. or be turned into tethers.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:15
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poverty goat posted:the IRS, an agency with no funding, computers, or new hires by design of congress, is never in a million years going to track down every rear end in a top hat who ever withdrew money from a gamgling site. the FBI and DEA get actual funding and it's all they can do to knock off a few sloppy vendors with old fashioned police work when they totally compromise a drug market and have a complete picture of their bitcoin situation, even though millions are flowing through there and it's all on the blockchain The NSAs Utah Data Center near Bluffdale contains ALL of our phone conversations. I think if the IRS wants you, they can bring in other agencies to find you. tango alpha delta fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 19:49
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Imagine breaking the law and messing around with bitcoin poo poo just so you can lose money gambling online lol
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Nov 29, 2019 19:58
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Klyith posted:staying away from the exchanges that do KYC means rolling the dice that your money won't be stolen by an exit scam, or vanish from a hack, or be lost via sheer incompetence, or all of the above at the same time. or be turned into tethers. Speaking of, time to reset the counter again. "$"49M "worth" of ether stolen from crypto exchange Upbit. Or, well, not stolen, "lost."
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Nov 29, 2019 20:01
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orange juche posted:dude you're gonna get loving nailed to the wall when the casinos get busted for it. Do not gently caress with this, I've heard that jail is not a fun place. I've made several trips to jail to visit inmates and can confirm it is a hosed up place. You will come out a changed man. You'll also meet some low level contacts in organized crime, which can lead to low profile shady jobs on the outside, if that's your thing. Honestly, stay far away from this poo poo.
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Nov 29, 2019 20:01
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tango alpha delta posted:The NSAs Utah Data Center near Bluffdale contains ALL of our phone conversations. I think if the IRS wants you, they can bring in other agencies to find you. They'd still have to backfill a whole chain of investigation that would plausibly connect these dots if they wanted to prosecute you, since this is illegal and would taint the evidence. The IRS just doesn't have the resources for this, or they'd start by taxing all the speculators who successfully gamed the market and got buttrich
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Nov 29, 2019 20:12
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poverty goat posted:They'd still have to backfill a whole chain of investigation that would plausibly connect these dots if they wanted to prosecute you, since this is illegal and would taint the evidence. The IRS just doesn't have the resources for this, or they'd start by taxing all the speculators who successfully gamed the market and got buttrich That's totally fair. I was just thinking about the IRS going after all the Reddit posters that have bragged about using Bitcoin to commit tax fraud.
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Nov 29, 2019 20:21
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tango alpha delta posted:That's totally fair. I was just thinking about the IRS going after all the Reddit posters that have bragged about using Bitcoin to commit tax fraud. Is a reddit post by [deleted] admissible evidence in a federal case? The fact that you can delete your name and content is hilarious to me on reddit.
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Nov 29, 2019 20:27
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orange juche posted:Is a reddit post by [deleted] admissible evidence in a federal case? The fact that you can delete your name and content is hilarious to me on reddit. Why wouldn't it be? Just because it shows as deleted on the reddit page doesn't mean there isn't evidence. Maybe reddit logs such changes or logs where changes came from? There's dozens of deleted reddit post archives out there, and if you can meaningfully establish they don't or can't gently caress about with the data, that would also tie users to the deleted posts. But most of all, the IRS probably have so much low-hanging fruit, they just correlate users of coindesk with people who hasn't claimed any butt income, they can continue catching a significant amount of people the next couple of years before they have to do anything even remotely clever.
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Nov 29, 2019 20:41
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orange juche posted:Is a reddit post by [deleted] admissible evidence in a federal case? The fact that you can delete your name and content is hilarious to me on reddit. If you live in one of the Five Eyes countries, all your internet traffic is logged, even by VPN's that claim not to log. As you can imagine, employees sometimes share private citizens information and browsing history if it's really loving funny. They don't care if it breaks the law or violates your privacy because it's "in house". Some of it is really funny, like the time we sent a DMCA take down notice to a young woman for torrenting porn. Turned out it was her boyfriend. Or, judging by the tone of her very angry email to us, her soon to be ex boyfriend. I used to work for a major ISP. You are not anonymous on the internet. We log everything, so even if some one deletes a bitcoin fraud brag, we have it somewhere and the big data tools to find it pretty quickly if ordered by the legal system. tango alpha delta fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 20:51
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Bitcoin Brag would be a good username.
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Nov 29, 2019 21:13
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tango alpha delta posted:If you live in one of the Five Eyes countries, all your internet traffic is logged, even by VPN's that claim not to log. As you can imagine, employees sometimes share private citizens information and browsing history if it's really loving funny. They don't care if it breaks the law or violates your privacy because it's "in house". Some of it is really funny, like the time we sent a DMCA take down notice to a young woman for torrenting porn. Turned out it was her boyfriend. Or, judging by the tone of her very angry email to us, her soon to be ex boyfriend. 
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Nov 29, 2019 21:43
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Shumagorath posted:Way to run that red yarn between your response to a DMCA notice and the behaviour of major intelligence agencies It's totally OK if you don't believe me. I enjoyed my work. The culture at ISP's and Agencies can be really strange sometimes, even amoral to an outsider. Just be careful on the internet and stay away from bitcoin because it's crazy. tango alpha delta fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 21:47
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Guaranteed reddit just overwrites the username with -deleted- in the public facing site whereas on the actual database it's just flagged hidden Facebook does it like that unless you ask and even then why would you trust them
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Nov 29, 2019 21:59
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tango alpha delta posted:If you live in one of the Five Eyes countries, all your internet traffic is logged, even by VPN's that claim not to log. As you can imagine, employees sometimes share private citizens information and browsing history if it's really loving funny. They don't care if it breaks the law or violates your privacy because it's "in house". Some of it is really funny, like the time we sent a DMCA take down notice to a young woman for torrenting porn. Turned out it was her boyfriend. Or, judging by the tone of her very angry email to us, her soon to be ex boyfriend. For torrents, sure. They are not encrypted in any meaningful way, and anyone can connect and see. For VPNs, you are placing a lot of trust in the VPN provider but provided the sites you're visiting are secure again they only have metadata. Metadata can and will be used in court if you do bad poo poo. Especially if there's metadata tying the vpn connection to you, like when you connect to it suddenly your computer is accessing chat programs, facebook, email stuff, etc, that you always access. And from there they can build evidence that it probably was you. They did this with facebook/gmail access from someone who was making threats while hiding behind a vpn. The FBI didn't even have conclusive proof that it was him or the content of anything he sent. Just metadata and the access logs facebook & gmail coughed up. That the user connected to the vpn, accidentally (or automatically) accessed his personal accounts while connected, and the threats happened only when he connected and did those things got him caught.
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Nov 29, 2019 23:03
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Khorne posted:You don't actually have the bitcoin brag. You have metadata that that person accessed somethingawful.com at a specific time. You have sizes of the packets sent. You don't have the contents of his post. You don't have the posts he viewed. You don't even have his account name, because the encryption used can only be compromised by compromising the user's computer or the server. If a backdoor to any of this were to exist it would only be used for really important, state-level poo poo because it's all publicly audited by the cryptography community and it'd be career defining to break any of the mechanisms used. Technically you do have all of that, but it's encrypted and inaccessible. Back in the day all that stuff was visible, too. You are absolutely correct. The big data tools scrape the metadata and then the case is built from there. Other data from other agencies may be brought in, as required. I was oversimplifying for readability, and your post is a much more comprehensive explanation. To get back on track, bitcoin is a pyramid scheme. tango alpha delta fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 23:09
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tango alpha delta posted:You are absolutely correct. The big data tools scrape the metadata and then the case is built from there. Other data from other agencies may be brought in, as required. I was oversimplifying for readability, and your post is a much more comprehensive explanation. and yeah, bitcoin/blockchain/whatevercoin is dumb and I love how the true believers try and call you a luddite for saying it.
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Nov 29, 2019 23:20
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poverty goat posted:the IRS, an agency with no funding, computers, or new hires by design of congress, is never in a million years going to track down every rear end in a top hat who ever withdrew money from a gamgling site. the FBI and DEA get actual funding and it's all they can do to knock off a few sloppy vendors with old fashioned police work when they totally compromise a drug market and have a complete picture of their bitcoin situation, even though millions are flowing through there and it's all on the blockchain Actually, the IRS has broad summons powers (in particular, John Does summons for potential tax evasion cases) which forces exchanges like Coinbase to do the bulk of the work and give them taxpayer information in a readily usable format which they then use to send out form love letters basically saying "Dear fuckface, we think you didn't report transactions involving buttcoin and/or didn't report foreign buttcoin holdings on an FBAR/8938. Please file any delinquent returns and pay the applicable taxes, interest and penalties soon or we'll come after you with our friends at the DOJ on tax evasion charges and asset forfeiture. kthxbye." The IRS is not loving around with cryptocurrency poo poo, just like they weren't loving around with the FBAR/8938 poo poo after the UBS leak of the numbered bank accounts. I've had clients that dealt with both civil and criminal issues related to both cryptocurrency and the FBAR/8938 poo poo, so I can attest that the IRS is (a) well aware of the shitsty that is cryptocurrency and (b) that they're aggressively using their scarce resources to go after cryptocurrency guys along with the DOJ as both a large revenue generator and also to make examples out of people in 'problem areas'.
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Nov 30, 2019 02:35
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Doesn't change the fact the IRS is vastly underfunded and audits less and less. There's a reason they're not going after rich people that might defend themselves better.
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Nov 30, 2019 02:42
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Horseshoe theory posted:Actually, the IRS has broad summons powers (in particular, John Does summons for potential tax evasion cases) which forces exchanges like Coinbase to do the bulk of the work and give them taxpayer information in a readily usable format which they then use to send out form love letters basically saying "Dear fuckface, we think you didn't report transactions involving buttcoin and/or didn't report foreign buttcoin holdings on an FBAR/8938. Please file any delinquent returns and pay the applicable taxes, interest and penalties soon or we'll come after you with our friends at the DOJ on tax evasion charges and asset forfeiture. kthxbye." The IRS is not loving around with cryptocurrency poo poo, just like they weren't loving around with the FBAR/8938 poo poo after the UBS leak of the numbered bank accounts. I've had clients that dealt with both civil and criminal issues related to both cryptocurrency and the FBAR/8938 poo poo, so I can attest that the IRS is (a) well aware of the shitsty that is cryptocurrency and (b) that they're aggressively using their scarce resources to go after cryptocurrency guys along with the DOJ as both a large revenue generator and also to make examples out of people in 'problem areas'.
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Nov 30, 2019 02:50
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Lambert posted:Doesn't change the fact the IRS is vastly underfunded and audits less and less. There's a reason they're not going after rich people that might defend themselves better. To be fair, if they go after the ones that have an arguable case (such as a technical issue related to trade or business expenses, itemized deductions, etc.), they have a good chance of losing the case if it goes to litigation, which is why there's a lot of settlements done in Appeals due to Appeals Officers having settlement authority based on the hazards of litigation. If it's a slam-dunk "You didn't loving report that $10,000,000 of buttcoin sales proceeds anywhere on your 1040" situation, they don't need to do jack poo poo since the burden of proof is on the taxpayer as to why it shouldn't have been reported to begin with (since, according to the 16th Amendment and related Internal Revenue Code Section 61, everything is taxable unless otherwise excluded in the IRC). And, funny enough, the IRS collected in the last year about 28% of their outstanding payroll tax backlog by just sending the "Where the gently caress are your delinquent tax returns/tax payments?!" love letters to their list (there's ~21 million taxpayers in the collection queue or about-to-be-collected-on queue), so they actually do rake in good money with relatively little assets/effort.
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Nov 30, 2019 03:03
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Lambert posted:Doesn't change the fact the IRS is vastly underfunded and audits less and less. There's a reason they're not going after rich people that might defend themselves better. This is correct and the IRS mostly uses its resources to go after regular working people that can’t afford a decent attorney. They’re too busy screwing with us to ever get the real crooks, like the billionaires and millionaires named in the Panama Papers.
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Dec 1, 2019 01:27
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klafbang posted:Bitscoin is a tax on the environment, however. thread title
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Dec 1, 2019 04:11
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tango alpha delta posted:To get back on track, bitcoin is a pyramid scheme. Sir! It's not a pyramid scheme! It's a tetrahedral wealth enhancement edifice! They are completely different things and I'll have you know that I have made millions of unrealized gains by following this simple investment system, and furthermore  .Edit: Touching the poop was kinda funny way back when 'to the moon' was $20. Then it crashed to like $2. Now it's just kinda sad. Methylethylaldehyde fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Dec 1, 2019 |
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Dec 1, 2019 09:52
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I'm not using it to avoid taxes at all, not even sure how you'd do that without risking losing it all in a crash, I try not to hold Bitcoins for more than 12 hours. I'm talking to my accountant soon about how to declare winnings since our tax office website is no drat use at all on the matter. Anyway the answer to my question was bitpay.
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Dec 1, 2019 12:14
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Wutang-Yutani posted:I'm not using it to avoid taxes at all, not even sure how you'd do that without risking losing it all in a crash, I try not to hold Bitcoins for more than 12 hours. I'm talking to my accountant soon about how to declare winnings since our tax office website is no drat use at all on the matter. What's this amazing surefire gambling system you have where you win so much money you need to employ an accountant to figure out how to get it. How many millions have you won gambling online?
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Dec 1, 2019 12:47
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