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I want to try killteam arena but with an electric football table. You get to roll dice when your guys wobble into range. Fastest roller attacks first.
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Dec 3, 2019 22:58
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I often play 2k against a nids swarm and I appreciate that the dude got all of his troops from eBay and painted them in one afternoon with a dry brush so he just grabs them by the handful and dumps them where they're going
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Dec 3, 2019 23:18
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1500 or 1750 does seem more interesting than 2000 but I haven’t played a game with more than 750 points so who knows.
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Dec 3, 2019 23:37
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I like 1500 to 2k. I don't generally play with a fixed timeline so it's not a big deal if a game goes long.
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Dec 3, 2019 23:46
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I play in the evening after work because that suits others, so we are kind of limited to 3.5 hours including deployment if we start at 7. I prefer Saturday games where you can play for 4+ hours and include having a snack or a beer with your opponent after two turns to talk about the game and have a laugh.
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Dec 3, 2019 23:51
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:1500 or 1750 does seem more interesting than 2000 but I haven’t played a game with more than 750 points so who knows. The balance is vastly different at 1500 or 1750. I strongly prefer 2000.
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Dec 3, 2019 23:53
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The argument tends to be at 2,000 points you can take elite units and not gimp your list. A 300 point unit at 2,000 points and at 1,500 is a big difference because there's a sort of "base line" of stuff you have to take (HQ and troops) so it's a bigger portion of your "discretionary" spend than it first appears. That being said I find at high points values you don't need to make many tough calls and most armies can build in multiple redundancies. Redundancies is unavoidable too because you've hit a critical mass where you can delete a unit that you need dead on your first turn. To me, this is why everyone is so paranoid about LoS blocking terrain these days. A combination of difficult to get cover saves and the fact the armies are so much bigger for the same points value. I plugged in my old 5th edition 1,500 point list into Battlescribe and its now 1,245 points. So not only have I got 255 points extra from somewhere, but I also have all the stratagems for "free" compared to previous editions. So on top of all that the game has also moved to 2,000 points? It's no wonder the tournament meta is all about how much alpha strike damage can you do/survive and line of sight blocking terrain. I honestly feel at 2,000 points there's basically no hard decision needed to be taken on my behalf when writing a list. I can include basically one of every unit I want one of and redundancies on everything else.
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Dec 4, 2019 00:05
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Has anyone done the math on how many points the Sisters box comes to?
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Dec 4, 2019 00:08
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^yeah I agree. It makes alpha striking easier, and too much redundancy for shooting exacerbates the problem. A bunch of the 2000 meta is “can I delete x in one turn”. I like the idea of lower levels so that there’s more partially damaged stuff going around. E; although I guess the existence of Knights necessitates higher points to make sure the knights can be killed
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Dec 4, 2019 00:10
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My biggest gripe re 1k pts is the 4 by 4 board. It feels cramped and limiting.
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Dec 4, 2019 00:21
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Clawtopsy posted:Has anyone done the math on how many points the Sisters box comes to? Eyeballing it I think it's around 366 not counting Canoness wargear, so possibly close to 400 if you max her out.
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Dec 4, 2019 00:25
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The existence of multiple kinds of detachments to build around means that suggesting the HQ/Troops tax is bigger at 1500 points is disingenuous. At all points levels you determine for yourself how much of your list is those kinds of units. Building a brigade for for any faction in the game at 2k is more difficult/full of tougher choices than any 1500 point list that's Battalion+. The size of the game has nothing to do with the difficulty of choices putting together an army once you get past about 500 points.
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Dec 4, 2019 00:25
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Kitchner posted:Back in my day 1,500 points was the standard and I was lucky to get thee leman russes in that list!  
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Dec 4, 2019 00:31
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I'm pretty excited about the space wolves reductions considering my list generally has five or six characters. I can take so many more 6" heroic intervention bros. Also my terminators with frost axes/swords which look cool are now priced more reasonably (maybe too reasonably?) and they've been big workers in their last games with two ablative storm shields and three storm bolters to keep them killing if they miss a charge or happen upon an objective.
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Dec 4, 2019 00:40
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Strobe posted:The existence of multiple kinds of detachments to build around means that suggesting the HQ/Troops tax is bigger at 1500 points is disingenuous. Every detachment as far as I'm aware requires you to take a HQ choice, and at 1,500-2,000 points you can take up to three detachments. If you take three detachments so you can basically ignore troops choices (e.g. A vanguard, a spearhead, and an outrider detachment) you still need three HQs, and you get gently caress all in the way of CP. If you take a Brigade or Battalion you need to field prerequisite numbers of troops/HQs/everything you don't want but need to fill a brigade. Yes it's more flexible than it was when every army was two troops and a HQ minimum, but it's still there and the fact troops are required really for objectives/screening means you kind of "have" to take some. If I build a guard 1,500 point army I probably "need" the two HQ and three troops for a battalion, but then I probably also need another 2-3 infantry squads for objectives and screening. At 2,000 points, a 33% increase in the points total, I don't need to take another HQ and another 1-2 infantry squads to be effective. I can spend that extra 500 points on "stuff" that dishes out damage, gets extra CP etc. The same goes for other armies I'm sure. When you hit a certain number of HQ/Troops combinations at 1,500 points you can increase your points limit to 2,000 (+33%) or 2,250 (+50%) and you wouldn't increase the points spent on troops and HQ proportionally (unless you have particularly kick rear end HQ or troop units). This sounds fun but that's why it seems all the meta discussions online are really boiling down to "can you survive a turn 1 shooting phase/can you kill X in a single shooting phase" and every tournament seems to set up their tables so armies can't see each other in the first turn or two. Kitchner fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Dec 4, 2019 |
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Dec 4, 2019 00:56
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I finished up some Intercessors this morning, quite enjoyable to paint.
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Dec 4, 2019 00:57
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Kitchner posted:It's no wonder the tournament meta is all about how much alpha strike damage can you do/survive and line of sight blocking terrain. That's going to be the case as long as one player gets to move/shoot/charge with their entire army before the other player can do anything.
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Dec 4, 2019 01:05
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Floppychop posted:That's going to be the case as long as one player gets to move/shoot/charge with their entire army before the other player can do anything. Not really, when I used to play before in 5e it was never really the big focus. Yes theoretically you could kill loads of stuff in the first turn of shooting but it was unlikely. There weren't many guns that could shoot full range across a standard board and stand a realistic chance of killing a vehicle in one shot, for example. In my entire guard army I had my pask vanquisher (2+ to hit, 7+ on 2D6, and then 5+ I think) and technically a standard leman russ (4+ to not scatter, 7+ on 2D6, then 5+ I think). It was possible to deploy most vehicles and infantry to get 4+ cover saves (obviously not modifiable back then) which also hosed with those odds. The armies that had long range anti tank/anti infantry weapons that could easily Sweep units off the board were very limited on terms of how many there were and how many units they had which did it. These days it seems like the 2,000 meta is "can you kill a T8, 24+ wound, 3+/4++ model in one turn?" and to me it still seems insane that we have arrived at a point where not only would you expect to see a baneblade style tank in my army at 2K, but it's considered not good enough because its lack of an invulnerable save means it will likely die on turn 1. The weird bit is I think on balance I prefer 8e over 5e, so it's not really an old man shouts at cloud thing. I think I'd just like to see slightly smaller games, with slightly improved cover.
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Dec 4, 2019 01:14
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Kitchner posted:The argument tends to be at 2,000 points you can take elite units and not gimp your list. A 300 point unit at 2,000 points and at 1,500 is a big difference because there's a sort of "base line" of stuff you have to take (HQ and troops) so it's a bigger portion of your "discretionary" spend than it first appears. I've never played this game where the standard size was any lower than 1850, and I've been playing off and on since 3rd. I think we have some conceptual differences to how the game should work that's causing a disconnect between some people who play at 2k and some people who think the game has bloated. What you describe as not needing to make tough calls I see as enabling my army to play against any opponent. Having to choose between anti-tank and anti-horde weapons is a tough call, but it's a bad tough call to have to make - since if you run up against the opposite kind of army there's no interesting game to be played, you're just screwed. A more interesting tough call to need to make is whether you want to dive into a single big deathstar unit to fill a role, or spread it among multiple smaller units that aren't quite as effective but are more redundant. What you describe as paranoia about LOS blocking terrain I see as driving actual choices. If there's no blocking LOS, even if every unit gets a cover save I'm still not being forced to make choices, I just shoot my entire army at the biggest threat. I might not kill it, but I still only have some fairly simple decision making. With limited sight lines I can't do that, I need to decide if I'm going to move a unit to take an objective and no longer be able to shoot things, if I want to stack up my army in one spot to make sure anything it sees dies for sure, or if I want to split my forces so my opponent can't hide from me, but I also can't necessarily bring my full firepower against them.
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Dec 4, 2019 01:16
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1500 pts = 1 big bird dude
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Dec 4, 2019 01:17
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Equip that Sarge with a void grenage so he can kill the 1000 point Chaos Space Marine Undivided Lord.
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Dec 4, 2019 01:55
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Two Beans posted:1500 pts = 1 big bird dude Alphabet soup is a costly bird indeed.
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Dec 4, 2019 02:07
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Does anyone actually use those super expensive giant daemon characters or are they basically just for friendly games
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Dec 4, 2019 02:09
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goose willis posted:Does anyone actually use those super expensive giant daemon characters or are they basically just for friendly games They're fun for Apocalypse.
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Dec 4, 2019 02:12
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goose willis posted:Does anyone actually use those super expensive giant daemon characters or are they basically just for friendly games i wanna make scabeiathrax or whatever his name is out of a glottkin and run him in a 2000pt game. 777 points but can use stratagems afaik so DS him in could be fun.
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Dec 4, 2019 02:24
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goose willis posted:Does anyone actually use those super expensive giant daemon characters or are they basically just for friendly games Before it went waaay up in point I used to see some at tournaments, usually with a gently caress ton of of horrors E: the alphabet soup bird, never seen the other ones
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Dec 4, 2019 02:24
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It's been a year since I've done anything Warhammer. New job after moving in with my girlfriend has left me with very little time to myself to paint, let alone play even killteam. I actually planned to buy the Sisters box that came came out because god drat, i wanted plastic sisters ever since I got back into Warhammer a year ago. But the day before preorders started my car broke down for good so not only did I no longer have the money for them, I had no way to get to the GW store to place my order. Today there was a raffle for a Sisters box at a local game shop and I blew 40 dollars on tickets and lost. I feel like a loving idiot. Im sorry that this is more of an E/N post but I lost basically all my time for hobbies and I feel like I've needed a win for so long or something to look forward to and...I just wanted to make Sisters for this stupid game. 
BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Dec 4, 2019 |
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Dec 4, 2019 03:14
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BigRed0427 posted:It's been a year since I've done anything Warhammer. New job after moving in with my girlfriend has left me with very little time to myself to paint, let alone play even killteam. I actually planned to buy the Sisters box that came came out because god drat, i wanted plastic sisters ever since I got back into Warhammer a year ago. But the day before preorders started my car broke down for good so not only did I no longer have the money for them, I had no way to get to the GW store to place my order. Today there was a raffle for a Sisters box at a local game shop and I blew 40 dollars on tickets and lost. I feel like a loving idiot. On the bright side you'll likely have a start collecting and the full range next year which might come in cheaper as a start than the release box. You could also investigate contrast paints for them since they're very detailed and I'd wager that if you're doing the main paint scheme that a pot of black templar, whatever the red is, a decent steel metallic and some fleshtone would get them off to a flying start with lesser time intensity.
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Dec 4, 2019 03:28
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BigRed0427 posted:It's been a year since I've done anything Warhammer. New job after moving in with my girlfriend has left me with very little time to myself to paint, let alone play even killteam. I actually planned to buy the Sisters box that came came out because god drat, i wanted plastic sisters ever since I got back into Warhammer a year ago. But the day before preorders started my car broke down for good so not only did I no longer have the money for them, I had no way to get to the GW store to place my order. Today there was a raffle for a Sisters box at a local game shop and I blew 40 dollars on tickets and lost. I feel like a loving idiot.  We don't know yet if they'll do another run of the big box, but they're not going to leave those molds just sitting around. Those models will likely return down the line as a start collecting box or something similar. The full range of real kits will hit next year, likely in Q1 if they're previewing everything now. In the meantime, maybe work on some backlog? Or dig out some old models you'll never get around to and start color testing your sisters scheme.
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Dec 4, 2019 04:11
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After having my last few games be 1k each 2v2, various eternal war missions, my game on Saturday of 500 pts maelstrom on a 4x4 was refreshing. Variety is the spice of life.
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Dec 4, 2019 04:15
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I'm late in replying to these, but...xtothez posted:Yeah that sounds like 4E. Best way to confirm is using the date the book was published. That Apocalypse will also be an older version as the current one is a boxed set with cards & counters as mentioned above. The Apocalypse book is copyrighted 2012, which, based on a quick search, means it based off 6e. BigRed0427 posted:It's been a year since I've done anything Warhammer. New job after moving in with my girlfriend has left me with very little time to myself to paint, let alone play even killteam. I actually planned to buy the Sisters box that came came out because god drat, i wanted plastic sisters ever since I got back into Warhammer a year ago. But the day before preorders started my car broke down for good so not only did I no longer have the money for them, I had no way to get to the GW store to place my order. Today there was a raffle for a Sisters box at a local game shop and I blew 40 dollars on tickets and lost. I feel like a loving idiot. For what it's worth, I had been planning to buy the SOB set since early in the year, but the day it was up for pre-order, I had a bunch of errands to run that cost me a bit, and I was feeling guilty because I had other models I hadn't finished yet. On top of that, it didn't come with some of stuff I wanted (the Rhino and Exorcist), and I didn't really want the stuff like the codex, cards, dice, etc. I believe everything in the box is going to be available later down the line, and everything in the boxset was monopose. I think the only thing you aren't able to get is the codex with the fancy cover.
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Dec 4, 2019 04:29
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Eifert Posting posted:My biggest gripe re 1k pts is the 4 by 4 board. It feels cramped and limiting. Play 1001 points on a bigger board
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Dec 4, 2019 04:34
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I think I'm in love with Nazdreg Yellow over Vallejo Duraluminum for gold. A Venomcrawler I'm mostly finished with using that setup:
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Dec 4, 2019 05:47
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So, my FLGS is doing a builder's league. Starts at 200 points, then goes up 200 points every two weeks. Must have a troops unit to start with, and an HQ by the time you hit 600 points. No named characters until the final two weeks. I'm starting up an Iron Hands army. For my first 200 points, I'm going with a Patrol detachment with some intercessors and a grav captain. Where should I go from there? A gunship? Thunderfire cannon? More troops, to work towards a battalion for CP?
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Dec 4, 2019 06:22
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JackMann posted:So, my FLGS is doing a builder's league. Starts at 200 points, then goes up 200 points every two weeks. Must have a troops unit to start with, and an HQ by the time you hit 600 points. No named characters until the final two weeks. I'm starting up an Iron Hands army. lev dread with storm cannons 
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Dec 4, 2019 06:44
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queef anxiety posted:lev dread with storm cannons Sounds fun.
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Dec 4, 2019 06:50
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Kitchner posted:Not really, when I used to play before in 5e it was never really the big focus. Yes theoretically you could kill loads of stuff in the first turn of shooting but it was unlikely. There weren't many guns that could shoot full range across a standard board and stand a realistic chance of killing a vehicle in one shot, for example. In my entire guard army I had my pask vanquisher (2+ to hit, 7+ on 2D6, and then 5+ I think) and technically a standard leman russ (4+ to not scatter, 7+ on 2D6, then 5+ I think). Your 5th ed Guard list sounds rubbish tbh. Mine had 4 Hydras, a Manticore, 3 Vendettas, and a pile of Vets in Chimeras. It absolutely did aim to take down multiple targets on turn 1.
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Dec 4, 2019 07:51
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queef anxiety posted:lev dread with storm cannons Nah, that's too expensive. Sicaran Venator with triple heavy bolters 
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Dec 4, 2019 08:12
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Sadly, I'm required to buy the models in-store, so Forge World stuff is out. ...At least, for this event. When I expand the army further, all bets are off.
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Dec 4, 2019 08:20
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Max Wilco posted:I believe everything in the box is going to be available later down the line, and everything in the boxset was monopose. 
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Dec 4, 2019 08:48
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