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there's power creep to be sure, which you'd find in any game this old i do hope we get some kind of gun rework in the future. What they did with melee is nerfed the extreme niche endgame meta while raising the floor real high up so if you got the mods maxed out and a competent understanding of how to mod you can make anything work in expected content better with almost everything than you could before the people doing like six hour arbies took a hit with 3.0 but they're still doable and balancing things around that playstyle is probably not wise anyways edit: the issues with guns, specifically primaries are kind of different though
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Dec 4, 2019 11:41
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Neither of them mean that DE doesn't care about balance. Tuxedo Catfish posted:DE doesn't try to balance weapons because it suits their monetization model to always be coming out with new, better stuff. Mm-hmm. Please, for the love that is good and holy, shut the gently caress up.
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Dec 4, 2019 11:45
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Is that a new opticor or just a skin? It's fun dropping this game for a few updates and coming back, there's so much new poo poo to find
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Dec 4, 2019 12:08
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Mehrunes posted:Mm-hmm. Please, for the love that is good and holy, shut the gently caress up. Again, you'd have to actively ignore all context to what I'm saying to think that's some kind of gotcha. First statement: DE cares about how strong recent weapons are relative to others. Second statement: DE doesn't try to balance weapons (e.g. doesn't try to make all weapons equal.) Please stop being so disingenuous.
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Dec 4, 2019 12:08
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will say I like the current melee set up that appears to have fallen in place where zaws are no longer the best melee at all, but they still have arcanes which the best melee don't so you get an interesting trade off of course half the saw arcanes are still real bad but I think this is where modular weapons should go forward "good but not the best as many primes BUT the arcanes give some weird added utility) Like with zaws I can now keep a steady rate of 5energy/s up as I heavy attack even if it's not the best of the best melee
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Dec 4, 2019 12:16
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I like flinging out ghost blades with Exodia Contagion when I'm not using my Jat Kusar even though I end up killing myself.
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Dec 4, 2019 12:20
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Like yeah I get it, it was new content at the time and gear but poo poo hok just stapled together from fish parts and it looking like it being better than Orokin era artifacts was always really fuckin stupid
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Dec 4, 2019 12:20
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Again, you'd have to actively ignore all context to what I'm saying to think that's some kind of gotcha. Tuxedo Catfish posted:DE doesn't try to balance weapons because it suits their monetization model to always be coming out with new, better stuff. Are you going to prove you point or not? You are such a disingenuous piece of poo poo, can you just give a strait yes or no?
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Dec 4, 2019 12:20
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Most of the bad Zaw arcanes are the ones that would just be "more DPS" or "higher combo count" anyways; it wouldn't necessarily be good or interesting if they were suddenly good. On the other hand, Exodia Contagion I know for a fact has some very useful niche functions (it's an innate source of multiple damage types that is independent of the base weapon's damage type, and it turns any melee weapon into a ranged weapon). Exodia Hunt I don't know of any practical use for but I would be surprised if there isn't some situation where drawing enemies in on a slam is useful. I just wish Contagion didn't only appear in an event that DE runs once a year. 
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Dec 4, 2019 12:22
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may I suggest you all just continue this idiocy on the official forums
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Dec 4, 2019 12:24
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Mehrunes posted:Are you going to prove you point or not? You are such a disingenuous piece of poo poo, can you just give a strait yes or no? The argument I made and the point you're asking me to prove have nothing to do with each other, despite your flailing around trying to get me to play on your terms. I've offered as much support for what I said -- that DE doesn't really bother rebalancing old weapons because they lack a financial incentive to do so -- as is necessary, apart from digging up the Devstream quote I alluded to. I am not going to prove that new weapons are categorically better than old ones in every case, or that DE has no motivations other than profit, because I never said that, and it is not necessary for those things to be true for my point to hold.
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Dec 4, 2019 12:27
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was a shame they buckled and made (or said they'd make eventually) crit rivens scale up for the new crit mods mostly cause I was hoping for a push for rivens to prioritize more utility buffs like range or combo+ over raw damage increases and crit chance but rivens are DE's own road to hell they can't give up
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Dec 4, 2019 12:28
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The Warframe thread hasn't been in the kinda state where it makes me feel like I'd rather slam my dick in a car door than engage in a long ol' time, equal shares of bless you all and go gently caress a fruit basket horizontally my grones!
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Dec 4, 2019 12:30
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The argument I made and the point you're asking me to prove have nothing to do with each other, despite your flailing around trying to get me to play on your terms. "Tuxedo Catfish" posted: posted:DE doesn't try to balance weapons because it suits their monetization model to always be coming out with new, better stuff. That'd be great for you if that were true, but that's not what you said. You said that "new, better stuff" (meaning weapons) specifically suits their monetization model. You can try to walk it back as much as you want but that doesn't change the truth. Jesus loving Christ, prove it or disavow it.
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Dec 4, 2019 12:35
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CODChimera posted:Is that a new opticor or just a skin? Some context would be useful. But at a guess, Opticor Vandal is, like all Vandal weapons, a new weapon. Notably it loses a bunch of per shot damage for a much more useable fire rate (and sligthly higher DPS IIRC). On the subject of Zaw Arcanes, Exodia Brave gives energy Regen on Heavy Attacks now (Maybe Heavy Attack Kills?)
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Dec 4, 2019 12:39
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Mehrunes posted:That'd be great for you if that were true, but that's not what you said. You said that "new, better stuff" specifically suits their monetization model. You can try to walk it back as much as you want but that doesn't change the truth. I am not walking it back. New, better stuff does suit DE's monetization model. I have spoken at length about what "better" means, to me and (speculatively) to DE. I have talked about trends in weapon power in the context of a standard (oro100) which, while it isn't perfectly scientific by a long shot, is relevant to measuring weapon performance in the contexts I care about, and does in fact indicate a general trend towards power creep. I have talked about the reasons that "well why aren't the newest weapons always the strongest" doesn't prove anything one way or the other, given that DE can get balance wrong, that their understanding of balance doesn't necessarily mirror mine, that reworks tied to plat-only packages or that wildly overturn everything and drive forma and potato purchases create exceptions, and so on. You are not going to get a satisfactory answer to this question: Mehrunes posted:This is what you said, and I asked you why the "better stuff" wasn't actually the best in the game. Because nothing I've said necessitates that new stuff be the best in the game.
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Dec 4, 2019 12:49
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Tylana posted:Some context would be useful. But at a guess, Opticor Vandal is, like all Vandal weapons, a new weapon. Notably it loses a bunch of per shot damage for a much more useable fire rate (and sligthly higher DPS IIRC). Tested it out last night 5/s for 4s, stacks three times (so 60 energy if you wallop three dudes) Sadly refreshes only until you got 3 stacks, then you got to wait for it to count down until you can generate new stacks If it refreshed with each kill you'd legit completely replace zenurik As is it stacks with zenurik and octavia passive so if you're an energy hungry non channeling frame it's a pretty good option if you don't have energize I test drove it with a Nikana zaw and daikyu for the lifesteal and it was pretty nice with the innate life steal + passive energy Regen. Shame were not getting daikyu prime
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Dec 4, 2019 13:03
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speaking of balance, did they stealth nerf Khora's 2? I get like one tenth of the duration on liches now (making it useless).
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Dec 4, 2019 13:05
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Goa Tse-tung posted:speaking of balance, did they stealth nerf Khora's 2? I get like one tenth of the duration on liches now (making it useless). idk if it's been changed since I only recently started messing around with liches and only even more recently started bringing Khora for them, but I I found her 2 plenty worthwhile when using it a few hours ago. It only lasts a few seconds but whatever, you can just cast it again. It's been plenty of time to blast the faces off level 5 liches while they stand there doing nothing.
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Dec 4, 2019 13:30
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Jesus...  I only meant that the "Balance? Who cares, check out this new poo poo we came up with" approach is novel in the marketplace. It's different, and Warframe is (in a goon group... or any group for that matter for like 98% of the content) easy and I like that. Nerfing everything into the ground until Ogris feels special is not a trade I'm willing to make. Side note: while not really relevant to the above as it's a community side effect and not developer intent, holy gently caress is it lovely to google melee 3.0 stuff and see people not wanting to share information for fear of the nerf bat swinging. CODChimera posted:Is that a new opticor or just a skin? The Opticor Vandal from the Venus fissure grinding? It's all new and actually kinda cool and shits all over the original. Not really my jam but it ain't a bad gun.
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Dec 4, 2019 13:52
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NPR Journalizard posted:A while back someone posted an app that I think put in a HUD that showed the value of rewards in plat. Does anyone have a link or a name or am I imagining things again? WFInfo?
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Dec 4, 2019 13:55
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If DE followed through with powercreeping better, Grendel wouldn't be what he eats (garbage). 
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Dec 4, 2019 14:19
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I don't know if this is a new meta and you two are having fun, can you stop making GBS threads up the thread?
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Dec 4, 2019 15:24
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It's been a while since i've seen someone so obliviously thirsty to let someone else push his buttons meet someone so enthusiastic to push them. Just get a room and kiss already.Avynte posted:Grendel wouldn't be what he eats (garbage).
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Dec 4, 2019 16:23
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The part that makes me sad is that I feel the tweaks dont even have to be total reworks. Better energy economy, give the self buffs some Qol love, make the projectile vomit enemy explode on impact in a stronger room wide corrosive aoe based on how long you've held them in your gut, and massively buff the meatball damage.
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Dec 4, 2019 16:51
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Very possibly, but that looks like it does what I want it to, thanks
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Dec 4, 2019 16:52
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Avynte posted:The part that makes me sad is that I feel the tweaks dont even have to be total reworks. Better energy economy, give the self buffs some Qol love, make the projectile vomit enemy explode on impact in a stronger room wide corrosive aoe based on how long you've held them in your gut, and massively buff the meatball damage. The simplest way to put it is that his buffs are just too small. His damage buff stands out as a pathetic boost compared to competing abilities. There's other ways to look at Grendels shortcomings but at core, numbers too small.
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Dec 4, 2019 17:01
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I want Grendal but I am on the Switch  I need to start grinding out some of these rarer mods from the Wisp boss and the Venus fissure thing. The Wisp boss is jusssttttt annoying enough for me not to want to face grind her.
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Dec 4, 2019 17:12
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Wisp is one of my top worst grinds I've done but that's largely because I had over 20 hard crashes and soft locks to get 4 wins. The amalgam mods that come out are incredibly good though.
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Dec 4, 2019 17:14
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Tulip posted:I had over 20 hard crashes and soft locks to get 4 wins.  i dont think i've had 20 crashes total over 1800 hours of playing. And i farmed all of wisp on the first day of ropy, before the hotfixes came rolling in.Although today i ran into a nightmare node lech krill who's last "pipe" never became vulnerable, a softlock bug that i remember running into and being annoyed by over a year ago. I guess it's vintage by this point?
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Dec 4, 2019 17:28
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Ivara p/etc December 17th!
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Dec 4, 2019 17:32
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RoadCrewWorker posted:
I think I've had maybe 3 hard crashes that didn't involve the rope in 2400 hours, but rope is ... a problem
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Dec 4, 2019 17:39
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I did the wisp grind last weekend and it didn't crash, but it was a crapshoot if the fight would softlock when trying to ride the thing
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Dec 4, 2019 17:48
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Berke Negri posted:there's power creep to be sure, which you'd find in any game this old
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Dec 4, 2019 18:06
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someone people like to shoot giant lasers to snipe and for them, the Opticor Vandal is great people like me like to shoot one tiny bullet at foes to cause them to explode with the force of a megaton bomb and for that purpose, the Prisma Grinlok is great
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Dec 4, 2019 19:36
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The liches were always meant to be an expansion of Warframe's endgame along with the Focus system and that's why the process is so convoluted. Like it's true that newer weapons tend to be more powerful than older ones, they want Prime Access people to get their money's worth, but due to the way the game is structured this rift is only really obvious with older items. That's just the nature of F2P game development, you need to constantly be pushing out new poo poo or you're dying. It has nothing to do with greed or DE wanting more plat sales.Victory Position posted:someone people like to shoot giant lasers to snipe and for them, the Opticor Vandal is great wait till you get your hands on a Kuva Chakhurr then!
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Dec 4, 2019 20:13
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https://twitch.amazon.com/prime/loot/warframe New Twitch Prime lineup for Warframe. Now: Ember (not prime) with slot + Filigree Prime orbiter decoration January, April, June, September: Boosters February, May, August, October: Cosmetic
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Dec 4, 2019 20:36
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Malloc Voidstar posted:https://twitch.amazon.com/prime/loot/warframe What the gently caress, I literally have non-prime Ember finishing in 4 hours and then they roll it out in a Twitch? Also kinda cheap of them to do non-prime; I remember when I first started playing the game it was Trinity Prime.
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Dec 4, 2019 20:40
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just going to build 10,000 oberons to fill up all these empty warframe slots I keep getting
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Dec 4, 2019 20:42
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Zero VGS posted:What the gently caress, I literally have non-prime Ember finishing in 4 hours and then they roll it out in a Twitch? Also kinda cheap of them to do non-prime; I remember when I first started playing the game it was Trinity Prime. They've got a whole year of stuff planned though, which imo is a bit more fun than one nice thing every 12 months.
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Dec 4, 2019 20:44
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