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Bust Rodd posted:Deadass just adding “if an opponent has more cards in hand than you, draw a card” as a rider to normal white cards and then bam! White sucks less. My mono-white definitely has to jump through a lot of hoops to keep the grip full. Land Tax/Scroll Rack/Top package is helpful, and more niche I have a more fringe option in Well of Lost Dream. Tying it to life-gain is on-color to, like Dawn of Hope, so more effects like that would be good and cool.
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Dec 4, 2019 17:29
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Bust Rodd posted:Deadass just adding “if an opponent has more cards in hand than you, draw a card” as a rider to normal white cards and then bam! White sucks less. being able to draw a card if you have less cards in your hand than an opponent would be, uh, quite the boon to a standard white weenie deck the point of the color pie isn't really that this perticular iteration is perfect, but that the game needs a color pie where every color has strengths and weaknesses, and when you have eternal formats it's very hard to shift that because then some colors (by combining old and new cards) effectively have more strengths and less weaknesses like "oh, black is supposed to have the best creature removal": they screwed that up in modern once with path to exile and as a result in modern white basically always had the best creature removal no matter how many sets they printed with white having not great creature removal and black having better creature removal
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Dec 4, 2019 17:32
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Just reprint Day of Judgement you loving cowards.
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Dec 4, 2019 17:33
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Mr. Locke posted:Hell, even two of the best sweepers in the format White has to share with other colors (one black, one red) although Realm-Cloaked Giant is absolutely the best standard-legal card that currently isn't getting sleeved up so it's probably only a matter of time on that end. I'm waiting for Gideon to be another 3 mana broken PW from WAR, somebody find a good shell please
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Dec 4, 2019 17:35
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Maybe they can address these commander color pie concerns in one of the many commander-focused products they have coming out next year
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Dec 4, 2019 17:37
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Mr. Locke posted:Except that's never been White's bag. White's mass removal is the best, but White's bag has always been the color that can remove the widest category of card, but usually at some kind of drawback. Maybe the answer has restriction on targets, maybe the opponent gets paid back in some way for their loss, maybe the answer ITSELF can be answered and have the original threat returned to duty, but white can deal with it. (Theres also the odd thing where G/B's identity is hitting all permanent types with things like Casualties of war... so GB also has white's identity? weird)
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Dec 4, 2019 17:37
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They should release a commander deck that is exactly what I want and then give it directly to me and nobody else
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Dec 4, 2019 17:38
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:Maybe they can address these commander color pie concerns in one of the many commander-focused products they have coming out next year yeah the idea of worrying about the legacy color pie is, uh, funny
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Dec 4, 2019 17:39
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No Wave posted:(Theres also the odd thing where G/B's identity is hitting all permanent types with things like Casualties of war... so GB also has white's identity? weird) We already knew this. What other colors get 4/4s with flying and vigilance?
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Dec 4, 2019 17:41
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evilweasel posted:yeah the idea of worrying about the legacy color pie is, uh, funny It's legitimate actually
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Dec 4, 2019 17:41
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I agree that colors having separate identities is important but we’re at a point now in MtG where access to Cards as a resource is so integral to every part of the game at every level of play across every archetype that it’s starkly apparent how hard White is getting left in the dust right now. W: U: Draw a Card B: Draw a Card, Lose 1-2 Life R: Draw a Card, exile it at end of turn G: When x triggers occur, draw a card Drawing cards and having access to your deck and its tools shouldn’t be limited by “The Color Pie”, it should be baked into every color.
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Dec 4, 2019 17:48
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:Maybe they can address these commander color pie concerns in one of the many commander-focused products they have coming out next year Apparently previews for that start next weekend, because Christine Sprankle announced that she has a preview card. Seeing as though she's going to a convention dressed at Elspeth, it's probably Elspeth's card. I think the one accidentally spoiled was the intro deck version?
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Dec 4, 2019 17:52
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No Wave posted:(Theres also the odd thing where G/B's identity is hitting all permanent types with things like Casualties of war... so GB also has white's identity? weird) That's not a White's colour identity at all. White's removal, the goods ones at least, are based on tradeoffs and rules. Path to Exile, Declaration in Stone, Swords to Plowshares all give you something in exchange. Even lesser ones like Crib Swap or Afterlife. Bake into a Pie could have been a white card if the creature's controller got the food and it was flavoured slightly differently. Then there's the ones where they "jail" a permanent, like Conclave Tribunal or Prison Realm where they remove something temporarily. Usually those are playable but there's so many good enchantments and artifacts that people are maindecking their enxh/art removal. BW and BG both share the "kill anything" slice of the pie like Assassin's Trophy/Casualties of War and Vindicate/(that one that makes you lose 3 life from innistrad whose name I forget) since green and white have enchantment and artifact removal, and black has creature, land and planeswalker (green also has land). Just we haven't seen any that are blackwhite in a while.
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Dec 4, 2019 17:53
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I thought Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile were no longer in White’s pie? I’m not sure many of the mono-White cards that get played in multiple formats still are, thinking about it. I definitely agree that card draw is too integral a part of the game to wall off from one colour entirely. On Mark Rosewater’s Tumblr he talks about repeatable mana sinks being a possible alternative for white, but to me that sounds like it’d lead to repetitive play? Maybe that’s not true in practice; I don’t know.
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Dec 4, 2019 19:01
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Bust Rodd posted:Deadass just adding “if an opponent has more cards in hand than you, draw a card” as a rider to normal white cards and then bam! White sucks less. Didn't White used to get "if an opponent controls more lands than you search your library for a land and put it into play" type effects pretty consistently? Why did that go away? Not against the card draw idea but I think it's easy to overdo and lead to another OuaT situation where an experiment that pushes the color boundary is just too powerful. Maybe some sort of conditional Scry (tied to lifegain or creatures attacking or something) would be sufficient.
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Dec 4, 2019 19:09
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nrook posted:Isn't the original definition of emotional labor supposed to be showing various emotions as part of your job? Like a retail worker pretending not to hate annoying customers. So it's a real thing, but trying to apply it to non-work relationships reveals an empty heart that, like Scrooge, weighs every interaction solely by gain. This is usually referred to as "affective labor". Salvor_Hardin fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Dec 4, 2019 |
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Dec 4, 2019 19:10
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Mat Cauthon posted:Didn't White used to get "if an opponent controls more lands than you search your library for a land and put it into play" type effects pretty consistently? Why did that go away? Not against the card draw idea but I think it's easy to overdo and lead to another OuaT situation where an experiment that pushes the color boundary is just too powerful. Maybe some sort of conditional Scry (tied to lifegain or creatures attacking or something) would be sufficient. White gets to scry unconditionally; I think? It’s in one of those lists of effects somewhere.
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Dec 4, 2019 19:13
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vegetables posted:I thought Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile were no longer in White’s pie? I’m not sure many of the mono-White cards that get played in multiple formats still are, thinking about it. StP and PtE are undercosted for white (and, in general), but the effects are still OK.
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Dec 4, 2019 19:14
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LifeLynx posted:Apparently previews for that start next weekend, because Christine Sprankle announced that she has a preview card. Seeing as though she's going to a convention dressed at Elspeth, it's probably Elspeth's card. I think the one accidentally spoiled was the intro deck version? i think it was a pack version because the rest of the cards seemed to be from packs, not an intro deck. also it's costed what i would expect WOTC to cost a planeswalker that you can cast forever out of the graveyard
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Dec 4, 2019 19:31
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That was definitely a real card. It was way above PW deck power level.
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Dec 4, 2019 19:33
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No more GP byes starting on May 25th. The grinder tears have been pretty high quality already.
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Dec 4, 2019 20:04
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Brownhat posted:No more GP byes starting on May 25th. The grinder tears have been pretty high quality already. WOTC is really trying to push out the grinders. I both love it and hate it. Also, MPL is probably dead soon. https://twitter.com/SaffronOlive/status/1202299937863680000?s=20 Sickening fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Dec 4, 2019 |
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Dec 4, 2019 20:19
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Mat Cauthon posted:Didn't White used to get "if an opponent controls more lands than you search your library for a land and put it into play" type effects pretty consistently? Why did that go away? Not against the card draw idea but I think it's easy to overdo and lead to another OuaT situation where an experiment that pushes the color boundary is just too powerful. Maybe some sort of conditional Scry (tied to lifegain or creatures attacking or something) would be sufficient. Knight of the White Orchid, Civic Wayfinder, Gift of Estates, Tithe, and Land Tax are all excellent white cards and I think tutoring for lands to hand should come all the way out of green and into white. I also think Crop Rotation effects like Harrow should be white because while green can ramp lands directly into play, white searching for specific (non-basic) lands and tilling soil//otherwise using agriculture seems more like it would be part of the community oriented White’s color pie.
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Dec 4, 2019 20:23
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Sickening posted:WOTC is really trying to push out the grinders. I both love it and hate it. Grinders were getting free wins because they played a lot. The fractional PT invite system rewards being good at the game instead. The number of "I don't want to play against randoms" posts I've already seen online makes me glad byes are going away.
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Dec 4, 2019 20:23
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The MPL is weird. I'm as plugged into all this as any other person posting in a Magic thread at 230 pm from his work computer, but the only thing I know about the MPL is "a lot of people got mad about who was playing in it." I don't know when it was on, what they played, if the games were live or not, commentated or not, who won or lost. It was just a black hole of content that apparently was a big push but then ... seemingly disappeared.
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Dec 4, 2019 20:26
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vegetables posted:I thought Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile were no longer in White’s pie? I’m not sure many of the mono-White cards that get played in multiple formats still are, thinking about it. their problem is less the effect, and more getting the effect for one mana. the downside is nowhere near as significant as the upside of a one-mana exile spell, and you can't make anything in black that outclasses it short of a straight-up one mana exile spell.
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Dec 4, 2019 20:26
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Huxley posted:The MPL is weird. I'm as plugged into all this as any other person posting in a Magic thread at 230 pm from his work computer, but the only thing I know about the MPL is "a lot of people got mad about who was playing in it." Well, you know as much about it as I do because I am in the same boat. I sometimes run across mpl matches on twitch on my way to watching other content. I hope Paul Cheon's job revolved around more than just managing mpl folks.
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Dec 4, 2019 20:30
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there were probably more factors, but my interest in watching competitive magic plummeted around the time the MPL came into effect
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Dec 4, 2019 20:32
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Sickening posted:WOTC is really trying to push out the grinders. I both love it and hate it. MPL will last through next year at the least and WotC is even going to include a Rivals league i.e. a lower division to it. The weirdly formatted weekly show and divisions will hopefully be gone. Maybe they could hold some, like, tournaments featuring their players and different formats on a certain day each week and show them live. I've heard this works for other competitive games and sports. Twitch Rivals was able to figure this out the few times they ran Arena tournaments, they had some very novel formats too.
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Dec 4, 2019 20:36
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Dumping the mpl weekly streams was the right call - no one seemed to care and the numbers were frequently inflated with the integrated streams in ads. Non-competitive players didn’t care about the streams because they don’t care about the mpl and people invested in competitive play didn’t care because in many cases the decks were from 1-2 weeks prior with old technology / sideboards.
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Dec 4, 2019 20:40
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The total lack of support and coverage is frankly mind-boggling and among the top 5 WotC fuckups of 2019, and that’s really saying something.
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Dec 4, 2019 20:40
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I honestly forgot the mpl was a thing
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Dec 4, 2019 20:55
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The most coverage it got was when Gerry T quit
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Dec 4, 2019 20:57
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From what I remember, a bunch of the MPL things were at weird times where I could never watch them, like some of them were on weekends and then some of them would be on a random Wednesday.
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Dec 4, 2019 21:06
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Most people in the local grinder group don’t seem to care that much about the byes going away it seems - some are even happy because they said that they won’t have to continually grind as many MTG events as possible to get those byes. An interesting take that I saw was that it mainly hurts CFB since their last chance trials (for byes) on Thursday/Friday were big money makers at GP’s.
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Dec 4, 2019 21:13
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Dehtraen posted:Most people in the local grinder group don’t seem to care that much about the byes going away it seems - some are even happy because they said that they won’t have to continually grind as many MTG events as possible to get those byes. SCG benefits because they still have byes.
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Dec 4, 2019 21:15
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The weekly broadcasts were terribly flawed: - Didn't start till 6 months in to the mpl - Showed bizarre excerpted replays like just game 1 of a match - Commentary was terrible, notwithstanding Cedric's efforts on play by play - As mentioned deck submissions were like 10 days before the broadcast and usually standard had moved on with a big weekend event already - Watching thumbnails of players staring mutely at screens is somehow worse than endless fidgeting and hand shuffling - Picking the best players corresponds with picking the players with the least personality - The points system are obtuse and not tied at all to that days broadcast. There were no recognizable stakes. It's a real shitshow.
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Dec 4, 2019 21:21
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Re: White, thematically I think cards that are about superficial "fairness" and evening the scales are a perfect fit and have space for powerful, useful effects. Land Tax-style effects, like Bust Rodd suggested. Green's got better/more creatures and lands out? You get to tutor poo poo, put it in play, or remove theirs. Black removed one of your guys? You get to remove one of theirs and get a small benny on top. That kinda thing. Odds-evening is very white.
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Dec 4, 2019 21:57
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:Re: White, thematically I think cards that are about superficial "fairness" and evening the scales are a perfect fit and have space for powerful, useful effects. Land Tax-style effects, like Bust Rodd suggested. Green's got better/more creatures and lands out? You get to tutor poo poo, put it in play, or remove theirs. Black removed one of your guys? You get to remove one of theirs and get a small benny on top. That kinda thing. quote:The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
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Dec 4, 2019 21:59
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mandatory lesbian posted:I honestly forgot the mpl was a thing hell, same
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