|
LatwPIAT posted:I just want a good, detailed, realistic Cold War game. ;w; I think it's very much a "we have to make one ourselves" situation - or going the hex and chit route. Start by answering this question: what do I like/dislike about 1. Team Yankee 2. Cold War Commander 3. Seven Days To River Rhine 4. FFoT3 5. NORTHAG 6. Force on Force 7. No End In Sight JcDent fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Nov 29, 2019 |
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 05:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 20:45 |
|
|
Stepping away from Team Yankee chat: Bad Squiddo Games (the studio of goon TheDiceBagLady) is doing an expansion on their Women of the Home Front range that's adding a whole bunch of new cool minis!
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 21:05
|
|
|
Hello. If you are insane like me you can order Pavlov's House from Black Site Studios. 20% off code today and comes with up to $40 of free terrain if you grab it before the promotion ends in the next couple hours. https://blacksitestudio.com/product/pavlovs-house/?fbclid=IwAR3o288N8onJElvXcIYq0-PASoIW95pVzllKr7KF41T1BJij3Frf4ud4eG8
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 21:22
|
|
|
Holy poo poo! That'll keep ya busy for a while, great model. Now for a board filled with rubble.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 22:21
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:Stepping away from Team Yankee chat: but the NATO tanks in a reasonable game must be higher-pointed than their soviet counterparts, to represent the increased tactical flexibility that their triplex acies formations would have against the inflexible, top-down phalanx of the typical soviet tank formation.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 23:01
|
|
|
I'm just thinking that if you want to push troops forward in lines, elbow to elbow... there's other periods where that's perfectly fine. Which is why I'm finishing my last Warlord plastics so that I can get to my new, nicer, Calpe and Murawski stuff:  About halfways through the highlights, gonna try to finish these this weekend.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2019 23:31
|
|
|
Class Warcraft posted:Hello. If you are insane like me you can order Pavlov's House from Black Site Studios. 20% off code today and comes with up to $40 of free terrain if you grab it before the promotion ends in the next couple hours. You mad man.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 07:30
|
|
|
lilljonas posted:I'm just thinking that if you want to push troops forward in lines, elbow to elbow... there's other periods where that's perfectly fine. To hell with Team Yankee Soviets, I'll work on my 1812 Russians.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 17:05
|
|
|
Cessna posted:To hell with Team Yankee Soviets, I'll work on my 1812 Russians. Perry now has the new French on pre-order, for release before Christmas. They are tasty. https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_62&products_id=4073
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2019 18:21
|
|
|
I started flames of war Germany mid/late war. Any ideas on a autumn or winter sort of colour scheme? Im a table top gamer rather than historical fan, but if I get into it I might desire to have an "accurate" sort of colour scheme. I dislike the tan sort of German colour scheme generally though hahaha...
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2019 14:20
|
|
|
Toalpaz posted:I started flames of war Germany mid/late war. For tanks or infantry? For tanks, here's some introductory reading. https://panzerworld.com/german-armor-camouflage This has some good tips on some more varied colour schemes: https://mistertretiakpresents.wordpress.com/2015/03/09/world-war-2-german-camouflage-and-tactical-markings-part-i/ For winter, it's pretty much anyone of those but covered in streaky white paint. If you're doing REALLY late, then a lot of the time they wouldn't even bother painting anything but the primer (a rusty red) and maybe a very rudimentary pattern on parts of it. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Dec 3, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2019 14:37
|
|
|
lilljonas posted:For tanks or infantry? thanks, that helps out a lot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2019 15:33
|
|
|
Toalpaz posted:thanks, that helps out a lot. As for infantry, this gives some hints. It's for 28mm, but you can adjust it for 15mm. https://www.paintalltheminis.com/painting-tutorials/2019/4/12/wwii-german-heer-grenadiers-pb39k AGain, for winter you'd see a lot of white jackets, pants and helmet covers mixed in. http://www.warlordgames.com/hobby-painting-winter-germans/
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2019 15:38
|
|
|
lilljonas posted:Perry now has the new French on pre-order, for release before Christmas. They are tasty. I almost regret Perry existing because they blow most other plastic historical ranges so far out of the water that I can't stand to look at them. Warlord in particular since they have so many kits of the same stuff.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2019 23:33
|
|
|
I have a mix of Victrix, Perry, and Warlord Napoleonics. Victrix win for best value per model Perry for nicest models Warlord for uh...I guess they don't require much assembly
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2019 01:06
|
|
|
There's a guy on SA-Mart trying to unload some 1/72 historicals for cheap, just in case anyone has any interest. 43 kits from a bunch of different eras for 2-6 USD each. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3903573&perpage=40&pagenumber=1#pti2
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2019 05:32
|
|
|
What are 1:72 scale miniatures normally used for anyway? Are there game systems that prefer that scale, or is it more for diorama type work? My brother and I used to buy boxes of 1:72 minis all the time and just line them up and knock them over with marbles when we were kid, so maybe I just answered my own question.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2019 06:34
|
|
|
I see it as an in-between scale. Platoon+ or skirmish games which would be normally at 28mm shrunk down but not quite as small as 15mm. They also tend to be extremely cheap for the number of figures you can get but that can be misleading as you can get some lovely, weird poses that you'll end up having eight in a box you immediately want to toss.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2019 07:33
|
|
|
1:72 is 20mm. While Ambush Alley was written for 15mm the pictures in the Force on Force rulebook are mostly 20mm Elhiem figures. A few IRL friends do Napoleonics in 20mm because the HäT boxes are such good value. IIRC Battlegroup was first done with 20mm too, but that might have just been because Piers Brand did the figures photography for that as well as Force on Force too. A lot of the older games like Rapid Fire from 20-ish years back were designed for it too. Most stuff where a base of three dudes is "a company" really.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2019 10:28
|
|
|
I think 1/72 makes great sense for napoleonic, though I'm already way too invested in 28mm to go that route. There are tons of cheap 1/72 kits which means you can make cheap battalions, and there are also companies like Franznaps that makes really nice metal 20mm if you want to go for high quality stuff as well. There are also a ton of cheap plastic stuff for WW2 and moderns. Vehicles as well as infantry. I've seen many use 1/72 for things like modern Afghanistan and Iraq. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Dec 4, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2019 19:50
|
|
|
So the Pak40 is this pretty big gun with a fairly big crew around it and a small gun shield in flames of war. In flames of war the unit has 'bulletproof' (basically hard cover) because of its gun shield, but it's gun shield is actually fairly small considering there's like 4 people taking cover behind it or around it. How do we feel about putting in sandbags/piling up dirt around the front of the gun on the base? Mechanic wise it makes sense because digging in provides bullet proof cover... but did people even use sandbags in WWII hahaha? How would guns set up temporary foxholes?
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2019 21:32
|
|
|
The way AT guns are used in wargames is not how they would typically be employed. Most wargames do meeting engagement style scenarios where each side is advancing towards each other. In something like that your AT guns are towed on the field and then manhandled into position to fire. Most often they’d be used in a static defensive role in which case the crew would carefully camouflage them or entrench around the gun. Sitting behind the gun out in the open would be extremely dangerous so the first thing any crew would do when they reached a defensive position would be to build a gun pit.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2019 22:17
|
|
|
Toalpaz posted:So the Pak40 is this pretty big gun with a fairly big crew around it and a small gun shield in flames of war. I entrenched my french guns. If I had the skill I probably would have added netting above them. Also, I recommend square bases, so that you can run the entrenchment down the sides of the wheels as well. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2019 22:28
|
|
|
Class Warcraft posted:The way AT guns are used in wargames is not how they would typically be employed. Most wargames do meeting engagement style scenarios where each side is advancing towards each other. In something like that your AT guns are towed on the field and then manhandled into position to fire. One of the nice things about this is they're utterly slow and unwieldy in game too moving 2" compared to the standard 10" or running 4" compared to 14" of infantry, and the fluff at least mentions that the transport vehicles leg it once they've entered engagement range of the enemy. (this is on a 6'x4' table) I think the most awkward translation is how extremely long range artillery appear on battlefield and have reduced ranges, especially when aircraft strikes are abstracted into a weird aircraft phases where they swoop in take shots and leave. So it begs the question why not abstract artillery strikes too. I'll take this as encouragement though to model foxholes/pits for them (i don't know the correct terminology), as any time infantry stop for one 'turn' in the game it seems to be enough time to dig in a small fortification. Toalpaz fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Dec 4, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2019 23:02
|
|
|
If you want to go 1/72 (20mm), there are a TON of different manufacturers and available ranges. It's actually one of the more fleshed-out scales for a variety of periods and especially WW2. In Chain of Command, AT guns and smaller infantry guns often have gun shields which bump up your level of cover (open to light, light to heavy), but the pro move is to pay the extra points to put them in an entrenchment such that even HE rounds have a hard time digging them out. But make sure you deploy them where you want them, because manhandling guns around is extremely slow, and once the crew drops down to just a few men is no longer possible at all.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 03:16
|
|
|
LatwPIAT posted:I just want a good, detailed, realistic Cold War game. ;w; I'm going to recommend an out-of-print set, GDW's Combined Arms. Most of the book is OOBs and unit data for what everyone had in 1988. I guarantee no parking-lot warfare. What sets Combined Arms apart is its scale. Designed for 15mm-1/72nd and work very well for 6mm. 1" = 50 yards, 15 minutes per turn, 4-6 vehicles per vehicle model, and approximately a platoon per infantry stand. A Soviet tank battalion would be: Headquarters 1 command MBT 1 heavy ammo truck with trailer 1 maintenance van 1 tank company 1 MBT 1 command MBT 2 tank company 2 MBT 7 tanks and two support vehicles gets you the whole OOB of an entire tank battalion. You can think in terms of regiments and divisions when planning your forces. Each formation is given orders at the start of each turn: Cautious Advance (half move, some fire), Full Advance (full move, very limited fire), Travel March (balls out on a highway, very vulnerable), Disengage (run away !), Rally (recover morale), Regroup (recover some destroyed stands), Take Command, and the deceptive No Order (very shooty, no movement). The morale and regrouping rules give infantry units surprising resilience, Travel March will let you redeploy a formation quickly, but don't let them get shot at, and then there's the overwatch function of No Order versus giving up firing opportunities to advance. A T-72 has a movement rate of 100/40" (road/cross country) and its gun can reach out to 60" with APFSDS or APDU, so it's a game that likes big tables. They recommend using centimeters instead of inches for 6mm. The book has a pretty full NATO v WarPac lineup, with OOBs and unit data all the way down to Czechs and Turks. There are also WW1 and WW2 versions. For WW2 they worked out a campaign game that covers all of Barbarossa by dividing everything by 25. I haven't seen a more recent set of rules that handles armored warfare better.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 04:47
|
|
|
Toalpaz posted:I think the most awkward translation is how extremely long range artillery appear on battlefield and have reduced ranges, especially when aircraft strikes are abstracted into a weird aircraft phases where they swoop in take shots and leave. So it begs the question why not abstract artillery strikes too. Just in like in 40K, it sells miniatures. That's the answer, all the time, every time. The 40K method is superior only because you don't have fans going  TELESCOPING SCALE to justify the unjustifiable. mllaneza posted:I'm going to recommend an out-of-print set, GDW's Combined Arms. Most of the book is OOBs and unit data for what everyone had in 1988. I guarantee no parking-lot warfare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fistful_of_TOWs posted:Beard designed FFT to be faster and less focused on minutiae than existing modern wargames like Combined Arms by Game Designers' Workshop. Beard decided to design his own game after an eight-hour game of Combined Arms that resolved only four turns before a draw was declared so that the players could go home.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 09:02
|
|
|
Ilor posted:If you want to go 1/72 (20mm), there are a TON of different manufacturers and available ranges. It's actually one of the more fleshed-out scales for a variety of periods and especially WW2. What rules can do 20mm Napoleonic? They all seem to be for 15/18 or 25/28. Also, are they are any 20mm army deals?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 11:14
|
|
|
Black powder will handle them fine, and the locals do Command and Colours with them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 11:48
|
|
|
My First of several rule books has arrived- General de Brigade Deluxe edition.....there's a lot of rules it seems. Anyone here had any experience with it? The reviews are all pretty glowing, though it doesn't "flow" well?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 12:03
|
|
|
Comstar posted:What rules can do 20mm Napoleonic? They all seem to be for 15/18 or 25/28. Super secret info: almost all nappy rules for any scale, as long as both sides are the same scale. E: to expand my answer. If you use a smaller scale, you can do it two ways. Either fit more minis on the same base sizes (For example, four minis on a 20x20 footprint instead of one), or you can adjust ranges. A common way is to switch from inches to cm if you go from 28mm to say, 6mm or 10mm. Many rules, like Lasalle, will give you examples for basing for different scales, but usually they main issue is to have roughly similar frontage on the units on both sides. As for 20mm army deals, I'd look at the affordable plastic kits. This website is great for 20mm/1/72 reviews: http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/PeriodList.aspx?period=22 lilljonas fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Dec 5, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 12:59
|
|
|
Comstar posted:What rules can do 20mm Napoleonic? They all seem to be for 15/18 or 25/28.  We play General d'Armee with 20mm metal miniatures and they work just fine. If you like General de Brigade but think you'd like some more streamlined rules, I can really recommend GdA. They're excellent rules, fast playing and reasonably realistic. Edit: I wrote up a battle report for a General d'Armee game we played recently: https://tallhatsbadguns.wordpress.com/2019/10/17/bloody-lane-a-general-darmee-battle/
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 13:06
|
|
|
JcDent posted:Just in like in 40K, it sells miniatures. That's the answer, all the time, every time. Here's my justification for the apparently unjustifiable: I like having artillery on the table because I like artillery and painting miniatures for it, and having it on the table makes for interesting gameplay. Hell, one of the reasons I was excited when I was getting into FOW was that I would get to paint a whole bunch of towed artillery and AT guns. I also like that FOW squeezes up to entire battallions unto an area that is 1/50th of a square kilometer in-scale because that's fun. I don't particularly care that in a real conflict that area would be occupied by maybe a couple of squads. There are games that do that, and that's fine too. It's not a malicious plot to "sell miniatures", people like those things. All wargames are an abstract, super-simplified representation of the real thing. Content: some of my unjustifiable artillery  Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Dec 5, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 13:46
|
|
|
I feel like you could write a whole wargame for just counterbattery fire, with telescoping scale and guns and both ends of the table. Abstract out all the other idiots running around without heavy guns.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 14:12
|
|
|
Geisladisk posted:Here's my justification for the apparently unjustifiable: I like having artillery on the table because I like artillery and painting miniatures for it, and having it on the table makes for interesting gameplay. Goon speed o7 I am more about the wargame aspect than historical so obviously I am for a game with more variety hahaha. I am not tooooo familiar with the flames of war people but my understanding is that there are plenty of people producing minis of that scale that undercut them so it's somewhat unfair to cynically compare them gw. I feel like their business model is mostly about selling those company books which is a portion of the GW model, but because of its focus on specific moments and companies it feels like it is in much less bad faith compared to like how some Warhammer books (britonia dwarfs) fell behind 2-3 rules editions compared to popular books haha. E: Here is my WIP generic Grenadier and STuG assault iii companies.  I'm repairing the Panzer IV which would be random attachments to either formation, because over the years since I got them I lost their bazooka skirts and I think they were missing the buttresses holding them in place. Also the halftrack models are garbage so I had to spend a lot of time filling in the gaps between the top and bottom panels. Toalpaz fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Dec 5, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 14:18
|
|
|
Artillery on the table makes for fantastic objectives and narrative scenarios.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 14:24
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:I feel like you could write a whole wargame for just counterbattery fire, with telescoping scale and guns and both ends of the table. Abstract out all the other idiots running around without heavy guns.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 15:39
|
|
|
All tabletop wargaming is just reinventing the Battleship wheel anyway.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 15:46
|
|
|
Geisladisk posted:
The only unjustifiable thing here is the shade of green you used.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 17:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 20:45 |
|
|
I can be overzealous with ripping into things I don't. And "I want to see the models" on the table is a perfectly cromulent justification - a lot better than flailing around pretending it's realistic. I am not sinless myself; I play Bolt Action, which has even less of a justifcation for having arty on the table. Heck, I play Horus Heresy, which itself is based on the worst-40k-ruleset-after-8e. And even when I have my head in the clouds about Actual Good 40K ruleset, I do think about ways that artillery and other models that don't belong on the table could find a way there. As Cassa said, they make for good objectives, but it's hard to drop GW box on terrain rather than units. And again, when you're looking for a game rather than some simulation of WWII, Flames probably works fine. I don't; it's one of the reasons why I don't play WMH - it's game first, anything else second - or much of GW stuff (it's very bad at simulating the feel of hams). Granted, it's hard to ungameify miniature games, since you can't hide the mechanics and the data like you could in a vidja, so rhe desire to do gamey stuff is always there. So you look for something with a vision of conflict resolution that matches yours (and of course, nobody can really agree what aspects of warfare should appear on the table or how). Also, you jest about counterbattery, but I think artillery rules take up more of the 48 page Combined Arms WWII ruleset than anything else. It also gives better front armor to Panzer IV H/J than the Easy 8.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2019 17:56
|
|