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Somewhat related to the topic of this thread, I've found a few interviews and a lecture by Alan Moore. He seems like a solid guy, with a perspective I can respect.The Warlock of Nothampton posted:In my experience, if you see any fascism, just stamp on it until it's dead. That's the only way, you know. Don't try and reason with it. Those of you in the know, can you confirm? Is Alan Moore still cool?
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Dec 2, 2019 01:44
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Lmao
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Dec 2, 2019 02:01
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B33rChiller posted:Somewhat related to the topic of this thread, I've found a few interviews and a lecture by Alan Moore. He seems like a solid guy, with a perspective I can respect.
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Dec 2, 2019 02:03
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There are legitimate reasons to dislike or treat carefully around his work, especially more recent stuff. I've read all of the LoEG stuff because I admire the breadth of his archive and it was a little endorphin treat since I've done a lot with 19th/20th c. pulp and popular fiction for work, but I hated a lot of it and to a certain extent resented him for writing it. The most shocking element was his repeated insistence on using and trying to rehabilitate the figure of the Golliwog, a black-face inspired children's character created in the 1890s which remained popular in the UK through the 1970s. It's an astonishingly racist creation with very, very evident visual roots in minstrelsy and other white supremacist entertainment traditions. Moore uses the Golliwog as a kind of cosmic emissary, this vaguely saintly helper and guide, but it isn't convincing, and at the end of the day you're still looking at a grotesque racial character and he's still digging his heels in about using it. This interview is, I think, his most thorough statement on the matter. This bit in particular has always struck me as tone-deaf and self-righteous: quote:PÓM: How do you respond to the contention that it is not the place of two white men to try to ‘reclaim’ a character like the golliwogg? Aside from this being generally kind of a weak-sauce response with a lot of projection going on, it also signals pretty strongly to me (especially the harping later on about the Golliwog's "dignity") that he has not done a lot of thinking or reading about racism and, more importantly, that he doesn't feel as if he's obligated to. Moore also has a very prevalent habit of relying on rape and sexual assault, a tic which has, imo, gotten worse since the late 90s. Much of his work over the past 20 years has been saturated in sexual violence in a way that speaks to, as with the Golliwog stuff, a lot of thought having gone into it, just not very good thought. This can range from the very explicit grand guignol sexual violence of Providence or Necronomicon or his attempts to use it in a cheeky, irreverent fashion in LoEG stuff (see Hyde's raping Griffith to death, or, in an especially tasteless move, a major character being raped by Voldemort. Lost Girls is infamous for pretty graphically representing underage character in sexual situations, and a fair bit of it is nonconsensual. It's ill-conceived at best, extremely creepy at worst, and I tend to read it more as the latter. I presume a lot of it has to do with the centrality of embodiment and sexuality in his magical beliefs-- this comes through very strongly in Promethea-- and that to a certain extent when he writes about sex he's also writing about magic, and vice versa. But I still think it loving sucks. (refer again to the linked interview, if you want, for an extremely long and digressive response on this subject where, once more, Moore's primary response seems to be incredulous indignation that anyone would be mad at him) I mean all in all he's writing about gender and race from the position of someone who has probably not had to do a lot of serious thinking about gender and race. He's (presumably) never grown up seeing faces like his own reflected back at him as figures of mockery and abjection, and he (presumably) doesn't have to worry about being sexually assaulted whenever he walks along at night. He's an old white guy who's generalized his own subject position into a universal one in a way that, as someone from outside of that position, is extraordinarily alienating and violent. He's thoroughly absorbed and internalized the notion of himself as this magus elevated above it all, which permits him to make this self-pitying, huffy little apologias for himself like the interview above. It doesn't matter to him so he can do whatever he likes. He's tremendously talented and a brilliant thinker, I guess, but at the same time, I can't help but parse him as an idiot rear end in a top hat. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Dec 2, 2019 |
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Dec 2, 2019 02:17
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B33rChiller posted:Somewhat related to the topic of this thread, I've found a few interviews and a lecture by Alan Moore. He seems like a solid guy, with a perspective I can respect. His penultimate work, Providence, features the 1000-year-old demon trope. Explicitly so.
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Dec 2, 2019 02:21
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Watchmen makes it a thing that the first superhero did so because he was a gay man and beating people up gave him a hard on. He is also a possible nazi sympathizer.
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Dec 2, 2019 02:32
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When Baby Yoda is revealed to be a girl in the last episode of the season, I can't wait to see all the filled diapers.
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Dec 2, 2019 03:42
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E the Shaggy posted:When Baby Yoda is revealed to be a girl in the last episode of the season, I can't wait to see all the filled diapers. I initially misread this as suggesting that Baby Yoda's gender will be revealed by way of a truly catastrophic diaper changing montage.
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Dec 2, 2019 03:51
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Baby Yoda Gender Reveal party with pink lightsabers if it's a girl.
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Dec 2, 2019 03:58
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Roth posted:Baby Yoda Gender Reveal party with pink lightsabers if it's a girl. Blue Lightsaber for boy Red Lightsaber for girl Green Lightsaber for Non-binary Purple Lightsaber for Gender-Fluid White Lightsaber for Agender
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Dec 2, 2019 04:22
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Thanks for the insights folks. I'm pretty dense/ignorant/uninformed with regards to a lot of things, and would like to be less so. Archyduchess in particular has given me a lot to take in and digest. I'm disappointed to learn of Moore's creepy/idiot rear end in a top hat nature (and just uggggggghhhh golliwogs? Bad idea, old man), but also a little relieved he's not a full blown Cosby. I haven't read any of his stuff, apart from (checks comixology library) around 14 issues of Swamp Thing. I have been enjoying it, and didn't see any red flags yet.
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Dec 2, 2019 05:21
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Roth posted:He is also a possible nazi sympathizer. 
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Dec 2, 2019 05:29
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Hollis Mason's Under the Hood excerpts mentions Hooded Justice openly supported them. It's been a while since I read it, but I'm like 99% sure that was a thing.
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Dec 2, 2019 05:34
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Roth posted:Hollis Mason's Under the Hood excerpts mentions Hooded Justice openly supported them. It's been a while since I read it, but I'm like 99% sure that was a thing. Oh, yeah, Hooded Justice is a racist with serious repressed self-hatred and it's kind of hilarious that he was seen as a hero by anyone (or that Comedian makes him look moral). I mean he's wearing a klan hood and the "thugs" he got famous for killing just all happened to be black. None of that is by accident. It's sticking the ugly reality of vigilante justice in the US in there with the foundational golden age heroes. I misread your post and thought you were calling Alan Moore himself a nazi sympathizer, which would be very silly.
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Dec 2, 2019 05:43
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Oh, lol, I can see how that mistake can be made. There's a lot of things I don't think are particularly great about Alan Moore, but I can't imagine even his harshest critics think he's a nazi.
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Dec 2, 2019 05:46
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Lurdiak posted:Oh, yeah, Hooded Justice is a racist with serious repressed self-hatred and it's kind of hilarious that he was seen as a hero by anyone (or that Comedian makes him look moral). I mean he's wearing a klan hood and the "thugs" he got famous for killing just all happened to be black. None of that is by accident. It's sticking the ugly reality of vigilante justice in the US in there with the foundational golden age heroes. The media idolized him as the first masked hero, but white-washed him into something safe and palatable.
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Dec 2, 2019 06:16
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Archyduchess posted:Moore also has a very prevalent habit of relying on rape and sexual assault, a tic which has, imo, gotten worse since the late 90s. Much of his work over the past 20 years has been saturated in sexual violence in a way that speaks to, as with the Golliwog stuff, a lot of thought having gone into it, just not very good thought. This can range from the very explicit grand guignol sexual violence of Providence or Necronomicon or his attempts to use it in a cheeky, irreverent fashion in LoEG stuff (see Hyde's raping Griffith to death, or, in an especially tasteless move, a major character being raped by Voldemort. Lost Girls is infamous for pretty graphically representing underage character in sexual situations, and a fair bit of it is nonconsensual. It's ill-conceived at best, extremely creepy at worst, and I tend to read it more as the latter. I presume a lot of it has to do with the centrality of embodiment and sexuality in his magical beliefs-- this comes through very strongly in Promethea-- and that to a certain extent when he writes about sex he's also writing about magic, and vice versa. But I still think it loving sucks. Moore's long response includes recounting experiencing an attempted abduction and molestation as a child, researched sexual assault statistics, and awareness of a large number of friends who'd undergone such and worse. He also brings up all the positive portrayals of sex he writes. None of that means people have to like those stories or give him a free pass for problematic content, but he seems to have put some thought and intention behind it beyond the characterization of a perverted rear end in a top hat creeper.
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Dec 2, 2019 06:50
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Squidster posted:The new HBO show has played fast and loose with the original canon. (HBO spoilers) There, Hooded Justice was a black gay cop. His fellow officers, shitbags all, gave him a mock-lynching as a warning to not bother the good white folk. He started wearing their hood and rope, and beating the ever-living poo poo out of clansmen. Later, the Minutemen begged him to join to legitimize their little freak club, but they shut him up every time he started talking about racism. He quit in fury and walked out of recorded history when he realized the Minutemen never intended to help him at all. You make me sad.
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Dec 2, 2019 06:58
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Space Fish posted:Moore's long response includes recounting experiencing an attempted abduction and molestation as a child, researched sexual assault statistics, and awareness of a large number of friends who'd undergone such and worse. Fair enough, I guess, but it was a prepared interview in which he was provided questions beforehand so him having statistics doesn't carry much weight for me. And his point about his molestation and his acknowledgment of knowing people who have been the victims of rape feels hollow when it's all winding up to him making a point about how more people are raped than murdered in real life whereas in fiction more people are murdered than raped hence blah blah blah: Alan Moore posted:It would appear that in the real world, which the great majority of people are compelled to live in, there are relatively few murders in relation to the staggering number of rapes and other crimes of sexual or gender-related violence, this being almost a complete reversal of the way that the world is represented in its movies, television shows, literature or comic-book material. Forgive me if there is something glaringly obvious that I am missing here; some evident flaw in my reasoning that I myself am blind to, but why should this marked disparity be so? Why should murder be so over-represented in our popular fiction, and crimes of a sexual nature so under-represented? Surely it cannot be because rape is worse than murder, and is thus deserving of a special unmentionable status. Surely, the last people to suggest that rape was worse than murder were the sensitively-reared classes of the Victorian era. Certainly, the actual victims of rape that I’ve known and spoken to don’t seem impressed with the idea of a ‘fate worse than death’. Most seem of a mind that while what they went through was unbelievably horrible, at least they hadn’t been killed, even if they had been threatened to that effect by their rapist. And yet, while it is perfectly acceptable (not to say almost mandatory) to depict violent and lethal incidents in lurid and gloating high definition detail, this is somehow regarded as healthy and perfectly normal, and it is the considered depiction of sexual crimes that will inevitably attract uproars of the current variety. To which I don't really have a good answer other than that Alan Moore can eat poo poo? Many, many victims of sexual violence have attempted or committed suicide in the aftermath, even years afterwards. As a victim of sexual assault as a kid, I often feel that if I could go back in time I would rather have just gotten murdered, given this bizarre wager Moore is describing. I've spoken to, been friends with, dated, taught, and worked with numerous other victims of sexual assault and none of them has ever said "at least they hadn't been killed" so I don't know what on earth he's talking about. I don't want to downplay Moore's own history of abuse which he mentions briefly but it does feel like there's stuff there he hasn't processed: the line about "almost everyone in his year" having been molested strikes me as much more depressing and alarming than he perhaps intends to. I'm reminded a little bit of Andrea Long Chu's recent book Females which is extremely erudite but fundamentally a distressing and dangerous restaging of anti-trans rhetoric as a vector for Chu's internalized self-loathing, in which she reframed every tired TERF argument as a way of polemicizing herself out of existence. It's a case of a very very smart person intellectualizing their own trauma into a pathology and I get the sense that Moore is unwittingly doing something similar. quote:He also brings up all the positive portrayals of sex he writes. I mean if someone runs a red light and hits me with their car I'm not going to care much about all the red lights they didn't run. This feels like him dodging the question and feels especially iffy in the context of Lost Girls which he's played up for almost 30 years as an attempt to write "benign" pornography a la Angela Carter but which features underage rape and abuse as centerpieces of each of its three main narratives. It feels like counting up every single shot in a Tarentino movie that doesn't have feet in them and going "SEE??" quote:None of that means people have to like those stories or give him a free pass for problematic content, but he seems to have put some thought and intention behind it beyond the characterization of a perverted rear end in a top hat creeper. I don't think pervert is a super useful term and I've never heard a word against Moore's personal conduct from anyone, anywhere, aside from I guess Grant Morrison's side of their dumb grudge. I do think it's an extremely vexing element of a long and often compelling ouevre, though, one that's prevalent enough that I can't think of a single work of his since ABC that I'd feel comfortable recommending to anyone else. It's a real issue and I think in that interview and elsewhere he does come off as a self-righteous prick. I don't want to sound prudish although even writing this I had flashes of like, "what's my problem"-- I was backed into reading most of de Sade for my master's thesis and even actually enjoyed a lot of Bataille's smuttier stuff when I worked on him early on in PhD coursework, and I do really respect the Carter text Moore mentions. But like-- it's there, it's a defining element of his late period work, and, often, I don't think it's doing or saying anything interesting at all. For every Century: 1910 there's a Century: 1969, for every Promethea a Neonomicon and eventually I feel as if one has the right to say "this blows and he kind of blows." How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Dec 2, 2019 |
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Dec 2, 2019 07:11
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Trying to dodge culpability for doing or writing bad things by listing all the good things you've done like all things are equal and just tallies on a Morality Scoreboard where you're fine as long as you get more marks in the Good column is uh not a good defense or something I would presenting as such
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Dec 2, 2019 07:28
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3 out of the 8 episodes of the Mandalorian are directed by women which is a slightly better track record than the 0 out of 11 movies that are directed by women
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Dec 2, 2019 10:01
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https://twitter.com/renfamous/status/1202389045164355585 The thread is worth checking out for the printing errors you've come to expect in a ComicsGate book. The shipping address on the back cover of the book. That's amazing.
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Dec 5, 2019 03:47
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drat Marvel and DC and Image are loving DEAD now!!!
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Dec 5, 2019 03:55
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Dawgstar posted:https://twitter.com/renfamous/status/1202389045164355585 I'm losing my mind over the text box that runs off the panel, text and all.
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Dec 5, 2019 14:25
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Lurdiak posted:You make me sad. What are you trying to say?
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Dec 6, 2019 00:28
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Ash Crimson posted:What are you trying to say? I thought Hooded Justice and what he implied about the superheroes of Watchmen was one of the best pieces of writing in the book and trying to subvert it like that seems really stupid, disrespectful and ill advised. I thought Watchmen had been so thoroughly exploited by writers missing the point by now that I couldn't muster up any outrage for whatever the show did, but they found a way to hurt my feelings anyway.
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Dec 6, 2019 06:35
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https://twitter.com/Joshua_Luna/status/1203078403353694208?s=20 Yooooo gently caress Jonathan Luna. Bad enough to do this kind of poo poo to a business partner, but to your younger brother? Scum.
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Dec 8, 2019 01:53
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Jordan7hm posted:https://twitter.com/Joshua_Luna/status/1203078403353694208?s=20 drat.
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Dec 8, 2019 02:00
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This sucks. What a loving rear end in a top hat.
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Dec 8, 2019 04:12
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God drat.
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Dec 8, 2019 04:57
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hey yall, remember that dumbass poster death ray who dropped in the old version of this thread and started telling everybody that deplatforming didnt work and we all had to bask in their glory before they would reveal the true path to getting rid of the nazis online...except they didnt...and then they got banned from bss. well it turns out theyd been posting here under the radar in some thread none of us read, and they just got hit with a probe for drive by transphobia in another thread and now some other poster is crying about it in qcs enjoy
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Dec 9, 2019 05:21
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Perma, plz
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Dec 9, 2019 05:38
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site posted:hey yall, remember that dumbass poster death ray who dropped in the old version of this thread and started telling everybody that deplatforming didnt work and we all had to bask in their glory before they would reveal the true path to getting rid of the nazis online...except they didnt...and then they got banned from bss. well it turns out theyd been posting here under the radar in some thread none of us read, and they just got hit with a probe for drive by transphobia in another thread and now some other poster is crying about it in qcs Death ray shows up and drops a hard r N bomb in the thread.
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Dec 9, 2019 07:52
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Death Ray posted:I'm a little pissed, actually, that a trans woman stole the cute lesbian I had a crush on. Why the gently caress are cute lesbians always making me fall for them? If this was a comic this is the post where Dark Tzitzimine would step out from the shadows and offer him a position in the Creep Lanterns.
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Dec 9, 2019 07:56
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I say that anybody that still defends him after that post should be permabanned.
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Dec 9, 2019 08:06
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Archyduchess posted:If this was a comic this is the post where Dark Tzitzimine would step out from the shadows and offer him a position in the Creep Lanterns. Wasn't DTs thing the red hood? And why do I remember that?
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Dec 9, 2019 08:47
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When I woke up today, I wasn't surprised to hear him making GBS threads up the Trans Issues thread, but I sure as hell wasn't expecting him to keep digging himself deeper in the QCS thread especially when someone else tried defending him. That sure was a hell of a thing to read.  MrFlibble posted:Wasn't DTs thing the red hood? And why do I remember that? IIRC, DT stanned for Red Hood for a long-rear end time but folks thought he was just a harmless weirdo. Then it got found out that DT posts in/is head of some booru forums of people with a fetish for wanting to gently caress anime lesbians to 'straighten' them out.
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Dec 9, 2019 08:53
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amigolupus posted:When I woke up today, I wasn't surprised to hear him making GBS threads up the Trans Issues thread, but I sure as hell wasn't expecting him to keep digging himself deeper in the QCS thread especially when someone else tried defending him. That sure was a hell of a thing to read.  to both of these imbeciles
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Dec 9, 2019 08:57
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I will always remember Dark_Titsanime as the guy pretending Senran Kagura has deep and interesting characters
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Dec 9, 2019 09:07
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Y'all ignored me about Dank Tittymemes for ages.
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Dec 9, 2019 10:15
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